Stormed out of AA meeting today because of a racist bigot.

[RiffRandell]

We were having a big book study in the back, and there were about 10 of us in a small room. The topic lead to discussions that were all over the place. An older women started her discussion off about how she prays for 45 minutes every day for herself, family and "my country". Then started rambling about how she was making a left hand turn with 2 lanes and switched lanes (her fault) and when the arrows turned green her husband wondered aloud why the truck in the other lane wasn't going. Sounded like she was blocking him to me. She proceeds to say "Because he's Mexican and probably an illegal immigrant and doesn't want to get a ticket." Several people in the group laughed. I stayed for a few seconds, picked up my book and purse and slammed that door so fucking loud on the way out. I was walking to my car when another woman from the group followed me and was really sweet and encouraged me to go back in, but I went home instead.

[dsc]

1. You shouldn't let anyone, no matter how racist, interfere with your sobriety

Sadly, there are racists, homophobes, sexists, and general asses, in all stages of recovery. Hopefully you can find another meeting where that person isn't but in the meantime, just ignore her.

[rug]

+1

[Little Star]

17. +2

[stlsaxman]

+3

[meegbear]

27. +4

[Warren DeMontague]

29. And believe it or not, there are lots of people who are happily sober w/o the 12 steps, too.

Some people walk out those doors and find other paths.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

35. +5

[chill_wind]

37. Good post and advice. n/t

[Shagbark Hickory]

45. +6

[Hosnon]

48. + a billion. It's hard enough. Don't let a racist make it harder. nt.

[rurallib]

2. some unreccers don't seem to like your story.

[Lost-in-FL]

20. Losers trying to feed their ego I suppose. nt

[lunatica]

3. Good for you

It would be nice if all these racists would go back in the closet again.

[democrank]

4. K & R

Bless you for taking a stand and good luck with your recovery.

[RiffRandell]

7. Thank you. It's not easy.

[WCGreen]

5. sometimes you just have to say enough is enough.....

Good for you.

BTW, I have stormed out of many AA meetings because of idiots. But I kept going back.

[firehorse]

18. +1 on keep coming back.

Yes, take what you like and leave the rest.... biggots = the rest.

[WCGreen]

25. I can't tell you how many times I was insulted because I didn't

believe in a omnipotent god...

But I have been sober now for 27 plus years and have helped many people over the years.

I finally picked a home group after all these years.

[firehorse]

28. Congrats on 27 years!

I've had several "home" rooms, and a revolving cast of backup rooms.

I've been in alanon for 5.5 years. But the first couple years, I had to reconcile my ideas of god, and re define for myself a healthy loving higher power that I could trust while still being an athiest. It's taken a few years but I've gotten more tolerant for others spiritual beliefs and definitions when I don't share them - and if they don't share mine.

But every meeting can get a bad apple every now and then that can challenge the emotional safety of the meeting. There are times when I have to go to different meetings or step out when someone with little recovery has toxic shares with no ESH. And there are times, I'm tested to have faith in the program and in my own recovery when I have little faith in those around me... or myself. It's all part of the journey, and what goes on in the rooms is practice for out in the so called "normal" world/life.

[monmouth]

6. Don't you love people like that? Completely miss the tenants of the

program, its foundational rules. Next meeting I would pull her aside and absolutely confront her, tell her how she sounded when she said that, etc.

[Rockholm]

8. I did the same when some guy make a snide gay comment.

Good for you.

[CountAllVotes]

9. I don't blame you

Not one bit!

I was staying at a hotel and there was a huge wedding going on. This woman was drunk and talking about all of the "darkies" living in the region as she put it.

I called her a racist and asked her if she'd like to be remembered as such when she is dead and gone. It embarrassed the hell out of her and yes, she did shut-up after that.

AA is one of these things I can either take it or leave it personally.

You may wish to start your own AA meeting up -- one for "progressives and free thinkers". :think:

:dem:

[GiveMeFreedom]

10. DON'T

FUCKING DRINK, BOTTOM LINE.

[graywarrior]

23. +1

[Wwagsthedog]

11. You can stay sober on your own

I'm 5 years past those people and still on the wagon and expect to stay that way

[CountAllVotes]

13. Quit in 1986

And no, I never got back into this horrible habit and yes, that is exactly what it is, a horrible habit that will indeed kill you.

Why hang-out with this pack of losers? It seems to me that 90% of them end up going back out and drinking again anyway. It is few that successfully give up on drinking. Luckily, I got plain sick and tired of this way of life. It was doing me no good whatsoever nor others in my life either.

Here's to staying sober without going to an AA meeting with people like this person hanging around "praying". They endanger sobriety IMO if they can cause such anger; not good! :puke:

:dem:

[cordelia]

16. Losers?

[CountAllVotes]

54. meaning the person that angered the OP

That type of loser. Racist loser. :puke:

Doesn't matter if drunk/sober.

[EFerrari]

19. People who get together to work at sobriety are not losers.

:wtf:

[cordelia]

22. Thank you, that was my point.

I had to stop before I wrote something that would have certainly been deleted.

[EFerrari]

24. Well, AA is like the world, it has all kinds of people in it.

You get to know which meetings work for you and which don't. AA saved my mom's life, I have no doubt, so I got to know a lot of meetings and a lot of people. They were great, with the odd @sshole. :)

[GiveMeFreedom]

26. I am not saying

all meetings are like this. But I was told this once,

"If assholes were airplanes. AA would be the airport."

[EFerrari]

34. Personally, I find it a lot easier to deal with a sober asshole than a drunk one.

:)

[GiveMeFreedom]

39. I'll drink to that!

Black, no sugar.

[Warren DeMontague]

31. I completely disagree with the "AA/12 steps are the ONLY way" mentality. BUT your post is not cool.

I salute anyone who can do it, however they do it.

To the many people who get and stay sober through AA, my hat is off to them, and I wish them well.

[Hosnon]

49. How could you say such a thing when you know how terrible the disease is?

Pathetic.

You did it without the program. Good job - seriously. That is no small feat. But some can't, and it's not because you are better than they are.

[pipi_k]

66. Thank you... I lost

my brother this past February when he tried quitting on his own.

It didn't work.

He was 40. His kidneys and liver shut down. His body was covered with bleeding sores. He was in horrible pain I wouldn't wish on anybody.


One of his older brothers (my step brother) took him to a treatment center. My brother's girlfriend got him out. Probably told him he could do it by himself.

He was hospitalized at least 15 times in the space of 2 1/2 years. No exaggeration. At LEAST 15 times.

Some people just can't do it on their own, and I agree with you...those who do are no better than those who can't.

And people who think AA is a load of crap...I have a feeling that if my brother had gone to meetings and gotten support, he would probably still be here today. I wouldn't even care what program it was, quite honestly...ANY program. I just wanted him here with us, that's all.

[Ignis]

46. Lookup "rational recovery" for an alternative to AA.

[Warren DeMontague]

62. In addition to RR, there are other choices, too.

For one, Lifering Secular Recovery offers group support, meetings, and many of the other beneficial aspects lots of people find in 12 step groups, but without the "Higher Power", Lord's Prayer, and Step dogma that many people- particularly Atheists- don't appreciate.

http://lifering.org/

[pipi_k]

57. I can't deny that people can get sober

on their own, and stay that way.

My father drank for years. When he married his third wife, he stopped. On his own.


BUT...

getting sober isn't just about not drinking. It's also about trying to do away with the alcoholic behaviors that can stay long after the person gets sober.

The "dry drunk".

My daughter is an alcoholic who quit drinking on her own for a number of years. One would think she would be happy as a clam.

NO.

The alcoholic behaviors are still there, making her do some very stupid things. Make some very (!) unwise choices.

So now, because things are going down the toilet in her personal life, she's gone back to drinking again.

It's a vicious circle.

So yes...people certainly CAN get sober on their own...but without a support system, and without an awareness of their own shortcomings and triggers, many of them will continue to fuck up their lives as badly as they did while they were active.

[Warren DeMontague]

60. Actually, that 'dry drunk' crap is a self-validating 12 step tautology.

See, "you can't get sober without the steps because without the steps you're not really sober."

AMAZING HOW THAT WORKS! :eyes:

Except, it's bullshit.

The recovery rates- LONG TERM recovery rates- for AA are no better than they are for other methods. Why is that, especially if all the poor lost souls not working the steps are wandering around in a dry drunk haze?

Here's the shocking truth: There are plenty of different roads, plenty of different ways to get there. AA. Rational Recovery. Secular Sobriety. SMART. Lifering Secular Sobriety Groups. And yes, many people can AND do do it on their own.

Those are facts. I realize that it's "accepted, shop-worn wisdom" in 12 step rooms that it is capital-I Impossible to get and stay sober (much less be "happy, joyous and free") without the 12 steps, but lots of people do it, and they're not all "dry drunks".

[pipi_k]

65. I think the point I was trying, and failed, to make...,

was that without SOME program, a whole lot of people are walking around sober, but exhibiting the same behaviors they did when they were drunk.

Sometimes the behavior is even worse because they don't have the alcohol to dull the pain.

And yes, I've seen people in AA, even with its emphasis on spirituality, stop drinking but STILL act like drunken assholes, only without the booze. I lived with one for almost five years.

My family is full of alcoholics, many of whom died of the disease as it ripped their minds and bodies to pieces.

Now, you may not like AA, or think it's worthless, but that doesn't mean that the concept of "dry drunk" is bullshit. I can tell you for a fact that even people who grow up in an alcoholic household who may not even drink themselves can spend many years in a "dry drunk" state. Self-sabotaging at every turn. Maybe using money or sex or food in an attempt to stop the pain.

As far as people quitting alcohol on their own, I don't think it's a good idea. Having a support system...any kind of support system...is crucial. Of course, I could be wrong, and would welcome seeing any stats you might have on the long term recovery rates of people who quit on their own vs any other organized program. Alcoholism is a serious matter. I would no more encourage a person to try recovery on his own than I would encourage him to perform an appendectomy on himself.

[Warren DeMontague]

67. AA probably saved my dad's life. At least, until the smokes killed him.

It works for SOME people.

My family tree has alcoholism all over it like a bad set of christmas lights. I am convinced that it is a physiological, genetic phenomenon... and unless "spiritual illness" is carried by genetics, I happen to call bullshit on that particular explanation.

What I 'don't like about AA' is the frequently promoted meme- and if you've been there, you absolutely have seen it- is that it is the ONLY way. And, really, when you boil away the semantic gymnastics, it really amounts to "people simply can't get sober without God"

Now, I don't care how many asterisks, "my higher power is a tree/the group/a doorknob", what it boils down to is an unfounded belief that ONLY a religious/spiritual overhaul can "save" the alcoholic.

(Then, 12 steppers wonder why others use the "C" word when talking about AA.)

That may be true for some folks. But it's not true for everyone. It simply isn't. And when Atheists who aren't willing to perform the semantic contortions to reconcile themselves with "God as we understand him", or sit in a room saying The Lord's Prayer- are told that it's either AA or death, many choose death.

And it's wrong.

Here's what *I* think, and this is borne out of experience- getting and staying sober, particularly in early sobriety, is like cutting your hair in the mirror. You have to do exactly the opposite of what every part of your brain is telling you to do. And since the brain is clearly affected by the addictive process, yes, it's hard for people to do on their own, without any other means of getting out of their head and their process. I would heartily encourage people trying to recover to explore all their options, be they RR, AA, LSR, SMART, whatever. Rehab. Therapy. There are many options available to people, and thankfully the internet has made communication and staying in touch easier. I think asking for help is VERY important, but it's ALSO important for people to know that AA, the 12 steps, and "God AWUH" are NOT the only road to get there.

And group support DOES help lots of people; but not everyone. Not everyone wants or needs that. One size does not fit all.

If you want more information from a different point of view, google "the orange papers". Some of that information on recovery rates, including on people doing it on their own, are there too unless I'm mistaken.

[DevonRex]

61. Don't give advice to someone you've never met. You have NO idea what his poster needs.

Everyone is different.

[DevonRex]

63. Glad for you. But the OP isn't you. Nt

[Fresh_Start]

I agree don't let them ruin what you need to do for yourself

I'm not kind...I would have responded that they didn't go because they realized that someone incompetent was next to them and might have rammed them

[TeamsterDem]

12. So on sight she can tell who's Mexican, who's illegal, and what they're thinking

Holy crap she's psychic! :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

People like that make me sick.

[firehorse]

14. Congrats for taking care of yourself

There have been many times when I routinely get up for a particular person's share and go out and get a drink of water for 3 minutes.

The three C's also help, .. I forget the order but: I didn't cause it, I can't cure it, I can't control it... This applies as much to someone's alcoholism as to their biggotry.

Also not every meeting is the same. Some are more healthier than others. I try to stick to meetings with the most sobriety.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Liberal_in_LA]

21. Good for you.

[pipi_k]

30. Do you have a sponsor? n/t

[RiffRandell]

36. Yes.

I was advised to speak to her about it.

[Broderick]

47. Yeah, good idea

you are struggling with step 1.

[pipi_k]

52. Are you new to AA? The reason I ask...

is because of your statement that you were advised to speak to your sponsor about the incident.

More experienced members don't usually need to be advised to do that.

Also, and I say this as someone who has experience with 12 Step groups, including AA...don't be surprised if your sponsor tells you that walking out that way was not the right thing to do.

You are going to see, and hear, a LOT of things you don't like in AA. As in real life.

You do yourself no favors by getting up and walking out.

This is what I would expect any sponsor worth her salt to say to me.


Anyway, good luck in your recovery.

[Warren DeMontague]

32. There are a lot of different AA groups, and there are a lot of options for sobriety beyond AA.

Fortunately, we do have many choices in this world.

[Chorophyll]

33. Ugh. I probably would have walked out too.

But if AA is working for you, don't let this dumbass drive you away.

I like your screen name, btw.

[RiffRandell]

38. Thank you. n/t

[aikoaiko]

40. Honestly, you'll hear all sorts of disagreeable shit in meetings.

You know what they say -- a new meeting is born with a coffee pot and a resentment (or something like that).

[BlueIdaho]

41. I learned long ago

that not everyone has what I want in AA. For those who have a problem with AA - its a program of attraction rather than promotion. If you don't like it, don't go.

[mailman82]

42. I hear Bigots at every meeting!

I can't change them. I speak up when they are really BAD. I simply tell them after the meeting that this is not the forum for that kind of talk. I try not to get angry and that pisses them off, they want a fight.In 26 years of sobriety I have learned this Live and Let Live! They are every where and they can't hurt me unless I let them. God grant me the serenity, short version God help me!

[Broderick]

43. Don't let it cause relapse

or mess with your recovery.

[ellisonz]

44. You know what Bob Marley said...

“Herb is the healing of a nation, alcohol is the destruction.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNlq4aCzvUQ&feature=related

[NMDemDist2]

50. i know what it's like to need a meeting after a meeting but.....

i usually sit tight until I can speak up about tolerance and love and all being the same inside.

yes, point it out what a stupid bigoted ass she was (and everyone that laughed)

but i did get the impression you are still somewhat new, so you did just the perfect thing, as long as you followed it up with a phone call to your sponsor or sober friend

keep coming back RR, then you can be the change you're waiting for eh??

:hug:

[Bucky]

51. Ironically, I doubt racists ever storm out of klan meetings cause of a drunkard.

au contraire

[Odin2005]

53. AA is BS based on authoritarian religion.

[pipi_k]

56. Well, its start certainly was, but...

members don't have to have any religion at all.

I'm an Atheist/Agnostic and even I didn't have any trouble with the Higher Power side of the 12 Step programs.

Its theme is more about spirituality...not religion.

[cordelia]

69. Wrong.

[Sirveri]

55. My husband/wife/adopted child is a Mexican/Black/whatever

Guilt trips are fun.

[raccoon]

58. I had a similar experience, back right before the US invaded Iraq.

I went to a meeting and a blowhard was holding forth, bitching about the protestors, who, like me,
had gone to DC or wherever to protest against the Washington warmongering SOB's upcoming war.

I got up and left and never went back to that particular meeting. There are tons of others in my area, and I hope there are others in your area too.

That was VERY inappropriate for her to say. If you continue to go to that meeting, you might request a group conscience meeting about people making any sort of political or bigoted remarks.

[krabigirl]

59. I love how all of the prayerful types seem to be the most bigoted.

[Warren DeMontague]

64. Information: Alternatives to AA.

There are others, but here are a couple.

http://lifering.org/

https://rational.org/

[Permanut]

68. I've been going to meetings for over 16 years...

And I've never heard anyone say that AA is the "only way", or even hint at it. Nor have I heard that I, or anyone else, must submit to some authoritarian religion. The higher power concept is a way of looking at life such that A) I'm not in charge of the universe, and B) the higher power can be any number of things, including the AA group itself. No requirement for an invisible sky being.

[Warren DeMontague]

70. That's good that they're not saying it's the only way, or the only way that works.

Because it's not.

I'm glad you've found something that works for YOU, though! :patriot:

[FloridaJudy]

71. Been there/done that

Hearing the "N-word" repeatedly is not in the best interests of my sobriety. Oddly enough, that didn't happen here in the South, but in oh-so-liberal Northern California.

Some of us are sicker than others.

[and-justice-for-all]

72. You should not have left, but taken that hack to task...

and shred her in front of everyone. It is better to let people like that have it in front of others, to teach them a lesson.

I work at a book store and I can only hope that no one that is buying some reichwing bullshit (like Darths new book) every ask me if I have read it or attempted to 'inform' me on their politics. I simply will not refrane from expressing myself.