This blackout in So Cal strikes me as very odd

[Duer 157099]

Isn't it really weird that such a large area can be completely blacked out for over a day (they're predicting)? WTF is wrong with us? That sounds like something that simply should not happen anymore. Is it a symptom of some deep problems with our infrastructure, or is it totally normal and acceptable that this could happen?

Hundreds of thousands of people will lose all of the food in their fridges/freezers. That is A LOT of food, that is expensive to replace. People are just supposed to suck it up and shrug their shoulders and go "oh well"?

I lost power for a couple hours about a month ago and I freaked the fuck out. A DAY? In 100 degree weather? No fans? UGH WTH is wrong with us?

[Tx4obama]

1. See below

The outage was likely caused by an employee removing a piece of monitoring equipment...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1905448


Now image if that whole building where the equipment is were to burn down - it probably would take weeks if not months to rebuild and everyone would be without electricity for a very very long time!

The infrastructure in most of America is OLD and needs to be updated ASAP.

p.s. When hurricane Ike came through Houston a few years ago I was without electricity for two weeks.
They said at the time it would have not taken so long if our grid/equipment/lines had been more modern.

[Divernan]

4. So equipment was not properly inspected/maintained and/or the employee was not properly trained.

But ya know, corporations have to cut costs in every possible way to maintain those obscene profits. Pretty damn alarming when this same company operates three nuclear power plants.

The publicly traded company responsible for this "mistake" is Arizona Public Service Company. It is the largest electric utility in Arizona and the principal subsidiary of publicly-traded S&P 500 member Pinnacle West Capital Corporation (NYSE: PNW), which in turn had been formerly named AZP Group, when Arizona Public Service reorganized as that holding company in 1985.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_Public_Service

APS is regulated by the Arizona Corporation Commission (ACC), the state agency that regulates all energy utilities in Arizona.

The holding company, Pinnacle West Capital, through its APS utility sells wholesale and retail power to the wider western United States and also provides energy-related services. Through another major subsidiary, Pinnacle West, it also develops and manages real estate in Arizona.

The utility company also operates three nuclear reactors. Its Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station in Arizona, the largest nuclear plant in the U.S., came under scrutiny by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission in 2005 when operational problems began to cause prolonged outages.



Pinnacle West Capital Corporation Pinnacle West Logo.png
Type Public (NYSE: PNW)
Industry Electric Utilities
Founded 1920
Headquarters Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Key people Donald E. Brandt, Chairman & CEO
Revenue increase$3.524 billion USD (2007)
Operating income increase$619 million USD (2007)
Net income increase$307 million USD (2007)
Employees 7,600 (2007)
Website http://www.pinnaclewest.com
Pinnacle West Capital


In 1995, the utility subsidiary Arizona Public Services issued 30-year Monthly Income Debt Securities paying 10%.

[Duer 157099]

6. "Oops! Sorry!"

Seems that is all anybody has to do anymore, just shrug it off and go on.

When the fuck will we finally say ENOUGH!?!

[Tx4obama]

7. Well, no not exactly.

From the link in comment #1

Excerpt:

SNIP

The outage was likely caused by an employee removing a piece of monitoring equipment that was causing problems at a power substation in southwest Arizona, officials said. The power loss should have been limited to the Yuma, Arizona, area. The power company, Arizona Public Service, was investigating why the outage wasn't contained.

SNIP

[Divernan]

9. So obviously, either the equipment was at fault OR the employee was.

If you have some other likely explanation, please share!

[Tx4obama]

12. Okay ...

You said: "So equipment was not properly inspected/maintained and/or the employee was not properly trained."

There is no proof that the equipment was not properly inspected/maintained, or that it was the employee's fault.

The article only makes it sound as if 'a piece of equipment' suddenly was not working and was being replaced.

Any piece of equipment can malfunction at anytime without it being anyone's fault.


Edited to change the phrase 'poop out' to 'malfunction' :)

[Divernan]

15. No, Equipment failure IS someone's fault. It's called Product Liability.

I taught classes on this in law school and I cannot educate you on this on line.


Briefly:
Particularly in areas where product failure can cause significant physical harm and/or economic harm, said products must come with instructions which anticipate life of the product and give directions for inspection and maintenance.

If the employee correctly followed instructions on replacing a failed part, and millions of customers lost power, then something was wrong with the replacement part, or with the instructions - both of which are the product of other humans. Voila! human error! Sometimes an investigation reveals that a piece of the equipment, say a metal spring, was not manufactured according to specifications. Voila, more human failure. Have you ever heard of auto recalls? Voila! More human failure. And since all these humans work for corporate/business entities, and are, in the legal term of art, "agents" of their employers, the employers are liable.

In cases of massive power failure endangering public health and safety, prevention is far preferable to years long, possibly class action, product liability suits. That prevention comes in the form of science based (NOT lobbyists-for- big-political-donors-based), strictly enforced regulations governing technology and fail safe devices/systems.

[badtoworse]

55. Have you spent any time in the power business?

There is simply not enough information known to draw any conclusions at this time. Power grids are extremely complex and it likely that a combination of factors caused an outage of this scale. The actual cause may not be known for weeks or months.

[Broderick]

36. I sense a great opportunity for Nationalization of

our power structure, companies and grids which in turn could provide jobs to update the infrastructure.

[krispos42]

38. Step 12: Now release the locking tabs and pull unit out of the slot.

Step 13: But first...

[Nuclear Unicorn]

56. You win

[Speck Tater]

2. The US/Canadian power grid is frighteningly fragile.

I read once that there are six or eight key points that, if taken out, would bring the whole US grid crashing down and remaining out for a very long time.

Before long we will look back fondly on the good old days of regular electricity and running water.

[truedelphi]

13. On the plus side, generators are now rather inexpensive, and can provide

Several hours of energy for not that much propane.

I am hoping my household will be off the grid soon. I hate P G & E and their smart meters.

[Divernan]

14. They're planning to put in smart meters in my area.

Why do I somehow expect it will result in more profits for the utility company and higher bills for me?

[truedelphi]

17. Tht's what I expect as well.

And there are rumors afloat that they somehow can "listen" to the activites in your household.

All I know is that the PG & R reps came to the local County Supervisor meeting to explain that the meters entire purpose was in helping us establish how to operate our lights and AC/heating systems more efficiently.

To which one Supervisor responded, "Well, it is almost 100 degrees in this County for two months. How does running your AC at 4 in the morning during the supposed "off peak" time help you stay cool when you need the AC to be on when it is hot during the day."

The reps tried to tell us that no one in Claifornia experiences unpleasant weather for more than 15 or 20 days each year. This was met with astonishment and guffaws from the crowd.

[Divernan]

19. Basically they know peak hours are dictated by homeowners' work schedules

and want to charge more for usage during those early morning and late afternoon/early evening hours. What the hell?!?!
You have to cook your meals at mealtimes, and you can't run your washer/dryer from the office. You use your home computer and entertainment systems when you get home, and not only after 8 p.m.

Private utility companies are grifters.

[Speck Tater]

32. After I got a smart meter ny bill went down.

It's only been installed for about a year, but comparing last years month by month consumption to this years it looks like I'm using less. Maybe my old analog meter was faulty?

[Divernan]

49. Well, that's encouraging.

[Wait Wut]

59. Mine, too.

Almost $45 this month. But, we also had a new fridge put in about 2 weeks ago, so there's that.

Oh...also, too, and...our old meter was replaced with a new old meter about 6 months ago. Yeah...APS is on the friggin' ball out here. When the old old meter was replaced with the new old meter our bill dropped almost $10 a month. The new new meter (along with the new new fridge) combined has dropped it an additional $45. I'm saving about $55 a month, now.

I feel like I was being raped for 4 years and thought it was just a back rub.

[krispos42]

79. We ran a generator for almost 3 days after Irene.

We figure it lasts about 2½ hours on a gallon of gas. That's $1.60 an hour, about.


Nearly $40 a day, just for electricity. It's a heck of a lot more expensive than the utility company. And noisier.



But it sure as hell beat cold spam and cold showers.

[MH1]

77. But we can spend trillions on war while not fixing vulnerabilities like this.

:banghead:

[Divernan]

3. Obviously more maintenance/safety backups need to be required by GASP! Govt. regulations!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/08/major-power-outage-california_n_954909.html

"The outage came more than eight years after a more severe black out in 2003 darkened a large swath of the Northeast and Midwest. More than 50 million people were affected in that outage.

In 2001, California's failed experiment with ENERGY DEREGULATION was widely blamed for six days of rolling blackouts that cut power to more than 3 million customers and shut down refrigerators, ATMs and traffic signals.

In Arizona, about half of Yuma County had power again Thursday evening after losing it earlier. Yuma County has about 200,000 residents and a little under half live in the city of Yuma.

"It's 113 degrees right now outside," said Yuma city spokesman Greg Hyland, who was sitting in the dark, answering calls.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

If this was a result of human error, the employer of said worker should be held legally liable in civil court to reimburse millions of people for economic loss - such as spoiled food & medications (which had to be refrigerated); not to mention down time for businesses. Of course, that will never happen.

Carefully crafted (without the input of biased energy lobbyists) & strictly enforced regulations, with some real biting penalties for non compliance, are absolutely essential for a functioning society. When the temperatures are 114 degrees, as in the area affected, people are going to end up dead when they have no air conditioning or fans.

There's a reason electricity was termed a PUBLIC UTILITY. That is that electricity is vital to public health and welfare. It should not be privatized, as it has been.

[Duer 157099]

5. Exactly. Seems people should be furious and outraged about this

but with so many things to be outraged about nowadays, I guess I get why so many aren't.

[Tx4obama]

8. Does NOT appear to be human error. See below

From the link in comment #1

Excerpt:

SNIP

The outage was likely caused by an employee removing a piece of monitoring equipment that was causing problems at a power substation in southwest Arizona, officials said. The power loss should have been limited to the Yuma, Arizona, area. The power company, Arizona Public Service, was investigating why the outage wasn't contained.

SNIP

[Divernan]

11. Human error also covers design/inspection/maintenance of equipment

I apologize for presuming legal knowledge of culpable negligence.

This power failure was not an act of god/weather related.

I handled complaints by small businesses to state government when our local electric utility overloaded their grids AND did not maintain their equipment, resulting in frequent outages which were extremely costly and damaging to small businesses. So it's not simply a question of one employee who was attempting to replace a faulty piece of equipment when the system failed. That employee could have done everything exactly as he been trained to do. It's a question of the company's responsibilities for installing the right equipment and maintaining and inspecting it, PLUS having backup fail safe systems in place.

Although I had to fight for months to get the privately owned utility to produce it's technical information on the deficient grid and their non-observed maintenance schedule (required by the state Public Utility Commission), I was eventually able to force the utility to reimburse several small businesses for their losses. I (and the state Democratic House caucus which employed me) did that pro bono for the businesses. Most small businesses could no way afford to pay a private attorney to fight a huge utility company in front of the state public utility commission or in civil court. The power company used the most expensive law firm in Pittsburgh, and flat out lied about weather incidents at the time of the failures.

[kristopher]

10. A grid built around centralized thermal generation is subject to cascade failures that...

...require a while to recover from.

Once the failure is contained and "roped off" from the rest of the grid, the process of reintegrating all of the generation begins. You've heard of 60 cycle or 50 cycle? The generators in the section that is still operational are all synchronized; that is, the speed and timing of the flip from positive to negative as each generator produces its alternating current (AC) all match . The section that is roped off must bring their generators into synchronization with those that are still running before they can be reintegrated into the powered network.

That is made much more difficult by the size of the coal and nuclear generators. The shafts are very long very, very heavy with wire windings, and once they stop, they sag in the middle - actually bending the shaft.

To get the bend out they must restart very slowly and turn until the shaft is straightened. Sometimes this process of getting the shaft turning at operating speed can take up to 24 hours.

It is, I believe, even more complicated with nuclear for reasons related to the process of reactor shut down and restart.

[Divernan]

18. You would make an excellent expert witness.

[defendandprotect]

22. K/R -- Yikes! And we certainly need to be looking closely at nuclear reactors ....

Global Warming is here -- including causing more earthquakes -- and mroe

severe earthquakes --

We have reactors built on faults -- we have two reactors in Ohio built on

Lake Erie -- a source of drinking water --

We have growing floods/droughts --


And we have Obama trying to push a new generation of nuclear reactors in US!

[sce56]

35. Not entirely correct!

Unless the plant losses all power the unit when it spins down will be put on turning gear we never let the shafts just stop that sag could cause a lot of damage! The systems that are critical have backups most of the older steam plants use Hydrogen gas to cool the generator if the seal system quit the gas would escape setting up a potential for explosion!
So all plants have a backup power system and the station battery is very large also, one cell out of the 60 could way 500lbs!

[kristopher]

70. delete dupe

[kristopher]

71. The scenario I described was a major factor in re-establishing power in NE '03 blackout

At least, according to the descriptions of the event I studied in 05. And as far as I know the sag doesn't cause damage according to the PJM operations manager that described it and taught me how conventional generation works. I presume the NE '03 blackout duration exceeded the capacity of the station batteries dedicated to the turning gear?

If you work in the field I'd love a more detailed explanation of what you described in your post. Particularly the part about hydrogen gas and the seal system.

[sam11111]

16. INTENTIONAL.. switch off at HQ to raise rates

Happened in N calif about nine yrs ago transcripts showed in court

"Ha ha aunt millie is having a fit about now ha..." Is one part of the internal emails or phone recordings I recall.

Data fm supoenas in court suit.. Cal utility sued by small very small Wash state utility in odd twist of events so it all got revealed.

Blkouts somehow get folks to go along with rate hikes. Guess " we need dough to fix stuff" is the plan.
Pity the sick on machines at home and who need ac to siurvive and elevators stuck.

[defendandprotect]

20. We need to get off the "grid" -- away from monopoly power -- and back to community based energy ...

local control over energy --

After ENRON and all that happened during that time to California -- purposefully

done -- as long as capitalism is in control of our economy and humanity, we're doomed!


And, we should all be pushing to close down all the nuclear reactors if indeed we

fully understand Global Warming and its threat --

[Divernan]

24. How ironic! Just as the Supreme Court is hearing Skilling's appeal

[sce56]

45. Actually Reactors would be the best thing to cure global warming they do not produce greenhouse gas!

But I don't feel they are the right way to go just look at Chernobyl & the ongoing poisoning of Japan and even us here in the US with Fukushima! Nuke plants are neutral to global warming but they are very dangerous to operate and one oh shit wipes out all of the attaboy's in that place! And even when they make them as safe as possible Mother Nature shows them they are wrong!

[sam11111]

21. private vs public utilities.. public uses profit to upgrade equip..private gives to owner 4 Lexus

Europe's mostly socialist utilities bury wires with money from profits

So few outages in storms

Here, profits give owner lexus car... Wires usually not buried here so every big storm... Outages. TV never tells you this.

Private does "raid the overhead".. for luxuries for owner. Europe USES overhead money to upgrade gear.

TV never tells you. Milton Friedman never told you in his textbook, I bet.

[defendandprotect]

23. +1000% -- K/R -- Back to public utilies -- community/locally based -- !!

Capitalism is literally killing us, folks!!

[Divernan]

25. That is ABSOLUTELY TRUE. Get the bloodsucking corporations out of public utilities.

When it comes to weather extremes, our very lives depend upon dependable sources of heat and/or air conditioning.

And with the coming water shortages & water wars, we do not want corporations profiteering in that area either.

[sam11111]

27. ??? post here.. ur local Tv repoting INTENTIONAL outage 9 yrs ago as part of current outage bkground

Let us know what they are saying

The intentional one shd be background info. for this story. For certain!

[slackmaster]

41. Yes, they never have mass power outages in Europe

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2009/02/10/france-weather.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6117880.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/3146136.stm

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/08/28/london.power

http://www.techzone360.com/topics/techzone/articles/206645-power-outage-shuts-down-cloud-computing-hubs-amazon.htm

http://www.relax.com.sg/relax/news/521426/Power_outage_closes_main_Moscow_airport.html

[sam11111]

51. PRIVATE electric still sits on some areas of europe: plus i said FEW in S. areas not none

Some cd happen in S areas due to human error etc.

But buried wires do NOT get torn by tree falls.

[former9thward]

52. So "socialist" utilities, as you put it, don't have power failures

but private ones do. Ooookkk.

[badtoworse]

57. Posted by someone who knows nothing about the power business

Power grids have rules that insure that stakeholders maintain their systems reliably. We have the North American Electric Reliability Corporation ("NERC") that was given legal authority following the 2003 Blackout to develop and enforce standards that insure the reliability of the grid. Utilities and other stakeholders (generators, transmission companies, etc.) that don't meet those standards are subject to substantial fines. NERC conducts audits to insure compliance and you can be fined if you fail. It doesn't matter whether the entity is publically owned or privately owned - they're all subject to the same rules and no executive is going to risk millions in potential fines to buy a Lexus.

Next time do some research before blathering about the power business.

[sam11111]

66. this Corporation sitting in place of Gov regulators.. answers to its stockholders

Its board... Populated by the idle rich? A case of "regulator" taken over by industry?
I trust those I elect not some rarely heard of odd corporation.

Why has regulation been moved from Gov to private hands? To more easily weaken regulation is my guess. Part of the RW wave of privatizing everything.

Hope u like this blather, O polite one.

[badtoworse]

72. Let's cut the crap

I've spent most of my career in the electric power business (28 years). I've developed power plants, both conventional plants and renewable plants; I've managed power plants; and I've constructed them. I've dealt with system operators, government regulators, investors and offtakers. Right now, I'm advising a group of investors anxious to invest money in the US power sector. I know what's bullshit about the industry and what isn't. Speaking of bullshit, I see lots of it posted about the power business on DU by people who obviously don't know a damn thing about it. I get pretty upset when I read it, so please excuse me if I seem pissed - I am.

The fact that you're not familiar with NERC speaks loudly about your knowledge of the industry. If you're really interested in learning about how about how our electric system works, do a little research about NERC, what it does and what it takes to keep the lights on. I doubt you have a clue how complex the business is on both a technical and commercial level. If you develop a basic understanding of what's involved, I think you'd be amazed it's as reliable as it is.

NERC was given responsibility to weaken regulation? That's laughable. Prior to 2007, there were no federally enforced reliability standards. It was done regionally and at the state level, but the 2003 blackout proved that was insufficient. following the blackout, NERC was legally empowered to develop and enforce uniform reliability standards across the entire country. NERC also has authority in parts of Canada. Why was NERC chosen? It was created in 1968 by the power industry itself to improve reliability. By 2007, it had nearly 30 years experience in system reliability area and was recognized by the federal government as being the best qualified group to have the legal power it was given.

Oh, about blather, it is a pajorative, not appropriate to describe informed opinion. Your opinion is an informed one because...

[TheModernTerrorist]

26. Let me put it this way...

I live in Tokyo: a city that just suffered from the destruction of one of it's most important energy sources (the Fukushima nuke plant). I haven't had a single power outage. Not directly after the earthquake, not in the months following, during the long, hot summer season, not after any typhoons or tsunamis that have come our way.

America has some HUGE problems it seems unwilling to address. I think the only way America will fix it's infrastructure problem is if some huge natural disaster wipes most of it out. Only then will Americans find the "resolve" to do something about it.

[Divernan]

28. Japan can afford to maintain infrastructure - they're not funding 3 - 4 wars like the US

[slackmaster]

42. They did such a wonderful job with their nuclear plants at Fukushima!

:nuke:

[begin_within]

29. Our power just came back on; was out for 8.5 hours, giving me plenty of time to think about this

One company (Sempra Energy, the parent company to San Diego Gas & Electric) controls the electricity to all of San Diego; if you want electricity here you have no choice but to sign up with them. In my mind that monopoly comes with it an enormous responsibility to keep the electricity flowing. The fact that they are the only game in town carries with it that obligation. They should be required to have a backup plan in case something like this happens.

And yet the electricity was off for at least 8 hours in a county with 3 million people, not only inconveniencing millions but even putting lives at risk in nursing homes, etc. and shutting down thousands of businesses for a night. And it's still off in many areas. The fact that a single, privately-owned company could shut down the 8th largest city in the U.S. plus all the outlying areas is pretty ominous to me.

Knowing San Diego and its long tradition of sucking up to the business establishment, Sempra Energy probably won't get any kind of punishment for this in any way, and even if they did, such as a punitive fine, they would just pass along the cost to ratepayers in some way or another. There's a new book coming out next week called Paradise Plundered which details the long and sordid history of San Diego and the tradition of favoring private interests over the public interest in stark contrast to other California cities such as San Francisco and Los Angeles, who actually put some effort into defending the public interest.

While the actual loss of power for 8.5 hours did not have a profound effect on us personally, the fact that it could happen and that Sempra couldn't restore power sooner than that demonstrates to me that they are not living up to the obligations that should come with owning a monopoly in a major U.S. city.

[KamaAina]

63. Don't look for help from the CPUC (California Public Utilities Commission)

There's a revolving door that leads directly into its offices from those of the big utilities, especially PG&E (hey, at least Sempra hasn't blown up any neighborhoods lately!) :eyes:

[NutmegYankee]

30. I was out for 6 days last week thanks to Irene

Tell me out it...

[malaise]

31. The problem originated in Arizona

Authorities were investigating a power blackout in parts of southern California, Arizona and Mexico on Thursday that left more than 1 million customers without power and caused widespread traffic jams.



Link to CNN News report: http://bit.ly/nD6sD0

San Diego Gas & Electric said all of its 1.4 million customers were without power. The problem appeared to have originated in Arizona, the utility said.

"This caused our line from AZ and from the north of our region to both trip off," the utility posted on its Twitter account.

"Think of the system as linked by springs, when one part goes out the rest are affected," another Twitter post from the utility said.

Power outages in California stretched from San Clemente to the state's border with Mexico on Thursday, a San Diego County spokesman said.

In Arizona, about 56,000 customers in Yuma lost power, Arizona Power and Supply said.

Parts of Mexico's Baja California and Sonora states were also without power, Mexican authorities said.

The Civil Protection Department in Baja California said authorities there were working to fix a problem at a hydroelectric plant.

[slackmaster]

43. When I walked down the street to check on my neighbors around 8:00 PM, Tijuana was mostly lit up

It was pretty strange seeing most of San Diego and neighboring cities dark, with the power apparently fully on in TJ.

I've seen it the other way around several times.

[sarcasmo]

33. Overloaded and outdated grids are bound to blackout. It shocked me we didn't have a major

blackout this July when millions of air conditioners were running 24/7.

[begin_within]

34. So ironic that the first email in my mailbox when I finally got to turn on my computer again is...

..."Bill Ready Notification" from San Diego Gas & Electric, telling me the amount of the new bill and inviting me to pay it online! After over 8 hours of no service from them...

[sce56]

37. What is odd is they would be doing that work on a "No Touch Day"

The system must have been in bad shape overloaded to the max with the high load at a high ambient temperature! The system apparatus is rated for min max on Voltage current and Temp. The higher the ambient the lower the capacity to maintain load!

What surprises me is the removal of the component caused the outage. When removing a protective relay you must first isolate the trip circuit, the wires that send the signal to the breaker to operate opening that circuit, then short the CT's( Current transformers) which are normally designed to automatically short out when you pull the device out of it's case. But then again I have not heard what it was they were working on.

ANSI DEVICE #s
25 - Synchronizing or Synchronism-Check Device
27 - Undervoltage Relay
32 - Directional Power Relay
40 - Field (over/under excitation) Relay
41 - Field Circuit Breaker
46 - Reverse-phase or Phase-Balance Current Relay
47 - Phase-Sequence or Phase-Balance Voltage Relay
50 - Instantaneous Overcurrent Relay
51 - AC Inverse Time Overcurrent Relay
52 - AC Circuit Breaker
53 - Exciter or DC Generator Relay
54 - Turning Gear Engaging Device
55 - Power Factor Relay
59 - Overvoltage Relay
60 - Voltage or Current Balance Relay
64 - Ground Detector Relay
67 - AC Directional Overcurrent Relay
68 - Blocking or "Out-of-Step" Relay
69 - Permissive Control Device
78 - Phase-Angle Measuring Relay
79 - AC Reclosing Relay
80 - Flow Switch
81 - Frequency Relay
85 - Communications,Carrier or Pilot-Wire Relay
86 - Lockout Relay
87 - Differential Protective Relay



There will be a report on this made available after the investigation by NERC! (National Electrical Reliability Commission)








The other thing that could have happened if the relay that opened the circuit was an electromagnetic induction disc relay This is old school and still widely in use. this relay is frequently used where the time of relay operation should depend upon the amount of an over-current. The relay is essentially a small induction motor. This is probably the most widely used protective relay in the industry. It starts to turn when the current exceeds a (previously selected) threshold current, and rotates faster as the current increases.

This relay has one set of stationary contacts and one set which moves as the disc turns. The distance which the disc must travel to close the contacts is adjusted by setting the position of the time dial control. The magnitude of current which initiates disc movement is set by the choice of the tap on the current coil. The results is that relay contact operation is dependent upon the tap and the time dial settings. The relay timing can be varied from a few cycles to as long as 30 seconds. The actual speed-torque characteristic of the relay can be controlled by the designer to give a wide variety of operating characteristics.


If that relay is sensing at or near the max load one little jiggle will make it trip! As the load ramps up the induction disc moves closer to the tripping point so that time to operate it is inversely proportional to the current flow (larger the current to less time to trip it) All it would take is to bump the door that the relay is mounted on to trip the circuit! See the picture below.



The same principal is used in your Watthour meter except it does not have damping or restraint coils so it turns constantly in proportion to your usage.

The blackout was triggered by a mishap on a high-voltage power line linking Arizona and San Diego, causing a cascading series of electrical grid failures stretching into Southern California.

APS, which is Arizona's largest electric utility, said a worker was doing maintenance on lines at a nearby substation when the blackout occurred.

"The outage appears to be related to a procedure an APS employee was carrying out in the North Gila substation," an APS spokesman said in a statement. "Operating and protection protocols typically would have isolated the resulting outage to the Yuma area. The reason that did not occur in this case will be the focal point of the investigation into the event, which already is underway."

I would suspect from that that a relay was inadvertently operated in the substation on the line protection relays over current or line differentials that tripped the fully loaded line causing the cascading trip as the one line went down the others got overloaded and tripped them as well!

[PCIntern]

39. It's all part of God's Plan...

WTF are you thinking??? How dare you question negative outcomes in reality??

:sarcasm: :hi:

[slackmaster]

40. You ask too many questions!

[sfpcjock]

44. Our infrastructure like power plants are stretched to the limits.

So one mistake in Yuma and the line goes down. After than the voltage dropped and the current surged so San Onofre nuke plant had to switch off or be destroyed. There isn't enough reserve even late in the day around 4pm to maintain it.

[sce56]

46. Get used to it the grid can only do so much and the record heat wave causes record demand!

That was definitely a "No Touch" day!

[sfpcjock]

50. Why should I "get used to it?"

[Liberal_in_LA]

47. if they didn't open their fridge over and over, the food should have kept cold

[slackmaster]

48. I didn't lose any food. I was without power for about 6 hours, 40 minutes.

No big deal, just some inconvenience.

[sam11111]

53. england nationalized electric, banks, rail airlines oil gas coal phones (? doctors?) in '47 or so

It isn't as alien an idea as CNN leads you to think. City owned electric here is 22% cheaper.

[badtoworse]

60. You need to catch up

The UK privatized its power generators and regional electric companies in the mid-90's (1996 I think, but I don't remember the exact sequence)

[sam11111]

68. thanks for the update. Many bad things have happened as the RW wave has moved over some areas

This Great Recession is one. Globalism too...crushed two billion people down into poverty and extreme poverty - UN report.

Privatize... Wage cuts down to dollar a day... Best level to maximize profits. Then a shabby product and a hi price up profits even more. Then ship the factory to India. Use profits to bribe regulators. Privatize:... A bright future? Not. A city on a hill? Not. Middle ages again? Yes.

[badtoworse]

73. The power business is pretty complex and it's different in every country

I'll speculate and say you'd benefit from a good understanding of power business basics. That should help you interpret it in a larger context.

I've been in the business 28 years and I'm still learning.

[slackmaster]

64. Is an outage of nationalized power any less of a problem than an outage of corporate power?

I'm not seeing any logic here.

City owned electric here is 22% cheaper.

Cheaper is good. Power is quite expensive where I live, but I've gotten my bill down to a little over $20 per month by going rooftop solar.

I own the means of production. ;-)

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. We were out for eighteen hours

So did the rational thing and got rid of dressings, cheese etcetera. It was mostly an inconvenience.

Fruit and veggies were fine...milk...I am not risking it. Mayo, no way.

I made coffee right before and had it in a thermos, so even had warmish coffee this morning.

[Eddie Haskell]

54. Get out! Get out now.

:scared:

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. Actually it shows the weak points

It was operator error.

To me it points to the need of distributed networks.

But truly was far more of an inconvenience to me, and the conures.

[Whisp]

62. Ken Lay back from the dead?

[Major Hogwash]

65. Was the President of the United States, a Democrat, addressing Congress yesterday?

They've pulled the plug out in California so many other times at times like this, that I no longer think it is just a freakin' coincidence.

Not now I don't.

[cherokeeprogressive]

74. I've lived in CA nearly all my life and cannot think of a time when power was cut during a

presidential address, or any other kind of political address. In fact, the one major blackout I can remember in CA happened in the late 1990s and was caused by a tree limb that snapped a power line in Oregon.

Can you help me out?

"They;ve pulled the plug out in California..." Who are they and what other times?

[Major Hogwash]

78. In 2003 the state was consumed with rolling blackouts. That's how Schwarzenegger became governor.

Maybe you were unaffected by those blackouts.

[DrunkenBoat]

67. Fallout from Enron & the increased marketization of utilities.

[sam11111]

69. slackmaster: i say it happens less often because Public elec.

Doesn't divert any profit money to luxury loving owners, nor raid overhead monies for the same purpose.

Eg. Public electric, by using those monies to bury wires, no longer has trees in such areas knocking down wires. P. E. buries more wires, hence you benefit.

Private profit rakeoff leaves less dollars for such.

[slackmaster]

80. Does it really happen less often with public electric utilities? Let's see some numbers.

Corporate utilities are highly motivated to keep current flowing, because they lose money when it's not.

[NYC_SKP]

75. K/R and, boy, there sure is a lot of misinformation around energy floating about.

It's a complicated infrastructure, a complicated economy, and understanding it all is NOT simple.

For one thing, we're coming off an era during which homeowners were encouraged to buy more power. In fact, in the 50s and 60s, you would be charged less if you used more.

Different times. Now companies use time of use rate structures to encourage conservation and behavior change, it's better for the environment if people use less during peak hours.

Off course people would rather believe it's a secret shadowy scam.

Same with smart meters. These will help, not hurt.

We're getting there, but I hope we all take the time to learn more about energy generation and transmission.

:patriot:

[Ilsa]

76. There were also coronal events a few days ago that were in Earth's

direction. I wonder if those power stations were hit more directly by the radiation effects.

I dunno.

[cottonseed]

81. Koch Brothers or Rahm

[spanone]

82. why are there not redundant failsafe systems....it's really hard to believe.

[One_Life_To_Give]

83. ISO is a Publicly Regulated Monopoly

The operation of the Grid System is a natural monopoly. Our Government is responsible for regulating it's administration for the public benefit. From details of how much profit and loss can be had to defining opational performance etc. Is not purely up to any private company.

If the service failed to meet public expectations then it should be investigated and possible fines should be considered.