All or Nothing

[Solomon]

Seems to be the attitude around here. We should think about whether that is effective while we throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[Edweird]

1. Here's the deal: The "baby" in this case is primarily RW crap. It needs to be thrown out.

Give us something that doesn't contain MORE TAX CUTS and 'free trade'. We've had quite enough of that already, thanks.

[Autumn]

3. That's a baby that needs to be thrown out.

I don't think anyone here wants ponies and rainbows. We want something that works.

[demmiblue]

2. No, that is not the attitude. n/t

[Cali_Democrat]

4. We?

Speak for yourself.

[Solomon]

5. If you guys were dying of thirst in the desert, you wouldn't

drink the water because the glass isn't full.

[rug]

6. And you would wait until the fattest guy in the desert drank his fill.

[Wait Wut]

11. What does weight have to do with dying of thirst in the desert?

I'd actually let everyone else drink first. Even the asshole that forgot to check the oil before we set out on a sightseeing trip to the Sahara and left us stranded in the desert with a blown engine. Oh, and he's fat.

[rug]

12. Sorry, I meant to say baldest.

[Wait Wut]

15. Then I'd give him my hat, 'cause I have lots of hair.

Your turn. :)

[rug]

23. I'd carry him to an oasis because I'm Chuck Norris.

[Wait Wut]

26. AAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Okay...I wouldn't let you (Chuck) drink from the glass. You're a douche. ;)

Edit to add: "Chuck" is the douche. Not "you".

[demmiblue]

13. Whoosh! n/t

[Wait Wut]

18. Excuse you.

x(

[demmiblue]

20. Excuse me for what? n/t

[Booster]

32. Good one. lol

[Wait Wut]

7. I'm stealing that.

'Cause it was perfect. :)

[JuniperLea]

9. Worth stealing!

:)

[TBF]

14. We wouldn't have a chance to drink it because the rich drink first

and they take it all - every time.

Anyone who doesn't see that is stupid at best or more likely complicit.

[Solomon]

24. LOL That's totally offbase. We know the rich are getting theirs.

The cry has been, "where's the help to the middle class", yet when something is offered up that helps the middleclass, ut's ripped to shreds.

Your example is not on point. There is water left for the working class to drink. That's what Obama offered last night. We already know the republicans will have problems with it. But some dems are doing a better job of shooting it down than the republicans are.

I agree that there should be much more. But that doesn't mean you turn it away.

[Donnachaidh]

29. when the offering is over 2/3 giving MORE to the rich, while a few coins are tossed at the workers

That offering deserves to be torn the f*ck up.

Some of us have our eyes open and see the slight of hand BS that is being tossed out AGAIN.

[TBF]

39. There is no water left for the working class to drink -

that is where we disagree.

And apparently I have to disagree with this democratic president on his approach. When he starts thinking about the 99% who elected him rather than the 1% who control everything then we can talk.

[Lars39]

16. Could be the water's salty.

Or the waterhole has way too many skeletons around it.

[Autumn]

22. The rich bald guy pissed in it.

You bet I'm not drinking it.

[Solomon]

27. Ha! If you were thirsty enough you would.

Don't fool yourself.

[Autumn]

30. Okay, but I'm going to filter it through dirt first

then I'm going to pound the rich bald guy into sand and he isn't getting anywhere near the water.

[Solomon]

44. lol.

:thumbsup:

[TBF]

40. And here we are again with the "you poor people take what you are given"

crap. So typical of this administration and it's supporters.

[Solomon]

45. Now see, thats a classic example.

Why is it that one can't take what he can get while fighting for more? More often than that, the bits that you take during the struggle, are crucial to success in the long run.

You act like if we take what we can get along the way, that somehow that the end of it.
It's shortsightedness to say the least.

[elehhhhna]

33. that's what people said as they were being herded into cattlecars

fuck that shit.

not settling.

[elehhhhna]

35. what if i say i'm not like the others?

what if i say i'm not like the the other
one
of your plays?
you're the pretender!
what if i say
i will never surrender?

[rbnyc]

34. No...

...we wouldn't drink it if it were poison.

[TheKentuckian]

48. Just because there is liquid in a glass doesn't mean it is water. A half a glass of strychnine is

more like it.

The swill you are pitching , I don't want by the drop or by the lake full.

[Claudia Jones]

8. extortion

We are being told again and again on every issue to abandon the positions we are taking or else things will get even worse. This is the classic approach of bullies and abusers - "quit your crying or I will give you something to really cry about."

[JuniperLea]

10. I guess you don't see the clown car offstage...

With your worst nightmare driving.

Or maybe it's your dream...

[Claudia Jones]

21. that is who I am talking about

I assume you are referring to the Republicans.

Yes, the Republicans are the most obvious expression of this ongoing extortion in the political realm.

I object to Democrats advancing that Republican agenda. Don't you?

[Autumn]

19. Just remember. We have nothing to fear but

fear itself.

[Claudia Jones]

28. yes

Whether it has been the wars, torture, detention, and rendition, the suspension of civil rights, the bail out of Wall Street, privatization of all kinds, or the destruction of public education we are told that if we don't cave in, if we don't compromise, that things will be much, much worse and we will all be really sorry. One "crisis" after another is trumped up - about Social Security, about terrorists, about education, and now recently about the USPS - and fear is used to drive people to accept the agenda that benefits the few at the expense of the many. Many Democrats are advancing that when they say "no, no, Republicans really are scary so we need to compromise or things will be even worse!!!" and "we need to stop criticizing Democrats for moving to the right, because that just helps Republicans!"

[Solomon]

17. For the life of me I just dont understand why

people refuse to accept what they get right now, and continue to fight for more. No no, if we don't het it all right away then we don't want anything. It's suicidal.

[ibegurpard]

25. Because free-trade agreements are part of what has gotten us into this mess

once again...it's not the PACE of change...it's the DIRECTION that I'm pissed off about

[Solomon]

31. Right. Because everything has to be perfect. All done at once.

Everyone of the issues, from Gitmo, to tax cuts, to jobs, healthcare. etc. all should have been done at the same time with no concessions to anything.

And in your world, there's no such thing as having to step back or sideways, in order to get to a positrion from which to move forward. Nope, it's all linear. Straight ahead.

[Claudia Jones]

36. correct

There is no way to achieve social change without relentlessly and uncompromisingly speaking out for it.

[rbnyc]

37. +1 (nt)

[TBF]

41. "accept what they get right now" -

We don't accept it because we aren't getting ANYTHING. The rich are taking it all.

And you are quite the water-carrier.

[RandomKoolzip]

46. For many people, unemployment, SS, Medicare, etc. are life and death matters.

Some people don't get that these kinds of things may be more urgent for some people than they may be for others. For many people, "accepting what they get" means accepting death, starvation, or homelessness for political reasons. Some people are speaking out and loud about the current political impasse because this is their future and passively accepting the conditions we have been dealt is not an option.

[JoePhilly]

50. Obama has extedend unemployment and SS and Medicare have

not changed.

[RandomKoolzip]

53. I would add "TEMPORARILY extended" about the former

and "not yet" to the latter. I am aware that the sky hasn't fallen yet, but for a great many underclass Americans, the mere fact that the national political discourse has changed to incorporate vocabulary and ideas which frame them as expendable, burdensome, and unwanted is cause enough for a very serious alarm. It doesn't matter which party is actually proposing legislation that pushes the conversation in that direction - it's the mainstreaming of those kinds of eliminationist ideas which is making many on the left and even more numbers of non-privileged Americans jumpy with anger and anxiety. An a political class which purports to represent all Americans ought to heed their cries of protest as a serious problem, not as something to be dismissed and/or laughed at. A lot of Americans are going to die or become homeless because of our current economic depression and it just doesn't seem to register with either party: that's the perception carried by a great many of those threatened. And if you dismiss the fear and anger that arises from that perception as negligible, or you wonder in bemusement why people are so angry, or you are upset because people are vocally, coarsely concerned about the direction of this Democratic administration, or you are puzzled as to why people on the left think SS or Medicare have been cut (or are about to be cut) despite cold reality, then at best you have to admit that this Administration has a messaging problem.

[Fuddnik]

52. No, what you're saying is the opposite.

You're saying accept the pittance you're given, and don't dare question it, or demand more.

Your approach is the slow suicidal approach. We've been ground down for over 30 years. All we get are repackaged Republican policies, and we're supposed to accept that, be happy, and defend the perpetrators, while being devoured alive.

Change ain't coming from either party. At least not good change.

Change begins Oct. 6th at Freedom Plaza. I'll be there.

http://october2011.org/welcome

[mmonk]

38. How about something?

What's it been, a few decades? We are about to dismantle the New Deal over bogus rightwing ideology when it's not the debt drivers or the cause of our economic problems. No mas. No more kissing rightwing ass to make sausage.

[pipoman]

42. At this point I am willing to vote for

about anyone who opposes "free trade" as it's currently defined...and strongly oppose any candidate who insists on flogging that dead horse.

[LWolf]

43. There is no baby. nt

[Solomon]

47. Sooner or later people are gonna

have to accept the fact that it takes two wings to fly; two legs to walk.

The hardest thing for the right and the left to do, because it hurts too bad.

[LWolf]

49. I think we already do that, every single day.

We live in the real world. We interact with, work with, people who don't share our values every day.

That doesn't mean that we have to capitulate and adopt their value system.

The real world is not 2-dimensional. It's not a thin flat line on which we place ourselves, with a single label to indicate where we are standing. Left and right, in the real world, change every time we rotate.

If you must use polarized, 2-dimensional, simplistic, flawed rankings, like black and white, good and evil, Republican and Democrat, Left and Right, normal and not, hot and cold, red and blue, them and us, I'd say the split here could be classified as socialism vs capitalism, power vs powerlessness, competition vs cooperation, thinking vs following, individual vs group responsibility, rights vs responsibility, wisdom vs foolishness, pride vs humility, greed vs generosity, bullies vs leaders, fear vs courage, hope vs despair, hate vs love, empathy vs psychopathy, integrity vs corruption, xenophobia vs tolerance, or peace vs. aggression...

What we are really dealing with, socially, politically and economically, are mindsets grounded in competitive power-mongering: pride, greed, fear, despair, hate, psychopathy, corruption, and xenophobia, promoted by well-honed propaganda.

Suggesting that we need to "compromise" with those things in order to walk, fly, or do anything else, is more propaganda.

Those things aren't second legs or wings. They are the ball and chain dragging us down, limiting us, imprisoning us to prevent us from flying, walking, and thriving.

[chill_wind]

54. Beautifully said.

:thumbsup:

[JoePhilly]

51. If Obama demands ALL or NOTHING, and we get NOTHING ...

because that's what can pass Congress, I'm sure Obama's strongest critics will praise him.

:sarcasm: