The new meme: You can be happier with less!

[laundry_queen]

Poll question: The new meme: You can be happier with less!

I've been seeing stories about this all over the news the last month or so. I want to know what DUers think (I know what I think!)

Is this just some feel good 'news' trying to make people feel better about their lives in this crappy economy or do you think this is a larger push to make people accept that from now on they are just going to have to make do with less.

[leftstreet]

1. People who want groceries in their cupboards are just 'hoarders'

Nouveau poor is cool!

[laundry_queen]

27. Yeah, that's exactly the twisting I'm talking about

it's everywhere! It's like some marketing group was hired and told, "make people think being poor is cool!"

FWIW, as an aside, a big chunk of your news stories are advertisements from marketing companies. This kind of run of stories reminds me of what I learned in my marketing class...

[cali]

2. sorry, I've long believed that.

And it's hardly just a meme put forth by the wealthy.

[War Horse]

10. Agreed 100%, but that doesn't mean it can't be exploited as a meme

[Ken Burch]

56. The problem with that idea, as it's being put out now...

is that it only calls on those who already don't have that much to do with even less. You don't see any of those who are calling for middle-class and working-class sacrifice saying that bazillionaires could each do without two or three of their mansions. The wealthy are given a pass. Get it?

[cali]

71. Yes, I get it, dear. That still doesn't invalidate the concept.

[Ken Burch]

83. OK, but it does put the motives of the msm types who are pushing it

in an era of imposed-austerity-from-above into question.

I wasn't attacking people who've chosen to simplify voluntarily, and that should be fairly obvious. And it's not as my own life is all about luxury and acquisition: I live in an apartment, with no car, and a relatively small amount of material things(the only thing I "splurge" on is musical instruments, and even then I don't buy the most expensive ones).

So your condescension shouldn't be directed to me, "dear".

Can we give this a rest now?

[Ruby the Liberal]

3. I have been a minimalist for years now

But that has more to do with living in hurricane country and the realization that the time will come when you have to decide what is important to you and what isn't. Amazing to find out what you can really live without when under the threat of nature taking it from you.

I know this isn't what you were asking, but thought I would add that.

On the meme, I think it is preparation for people to have to involuntarily having to walk away from things for no reason.

[DJ13]

4. I always enjoy having a $300,000 per year reporter tell me to do with less

It just brightens my day!

[muffin1]

14. Indeed. I love spending my days clipping coupons, looking for specials,

and wondering whether we REALLY NEED to get milk this week - or lunch meat for sandwiches.

Can I get by rinsing my infected tooth with hydrogen peroxide, so we don't have to pay a couple hundred to the dentist? What about that operation my doctor wanted me to have (back when I had insurance)? Am I really THAT sick? How about hubby, who has insurance, but still can't afford the co-pays? Or, how long will our one car 'hold on'? What if, what if, what if...

Meanwhile, the rich keep on getting richer, and we're told to "sacrifice". Depressing as hell.

[RKP5637]

22. It's all bullshit and too many Americans have been bred to accept this

crap. We are being played against ourselves, divided nation, and this works to the benefit of the oligarchy.

[RKP5637]

21. Yeah, just makes my day too, listening to BS idiotic airhead reporters. n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

37. Yeah, no kidding.

:puke:

[Incitatus]

47. Yes, and the billionaires who write their checks. nt

[fascisthunter]

53. no shit... incredibly clueless, but people well-off do live in a bubble

[Speck Tater]

5. Other: Non-greedy people are happier, BUT...

lacking adequate monetary resources to support yourself and your family can cause a lot of unhappiness.

Some of the happiest periods in my 66 years were times when my income was low, but adequate. The American lifestyle is centered around greed. If we truly cared about other people we would learn how to be happy with nothing more than our fair share of the world's resource, instead of the greedy share we, as Americans, seem to think we are entitled to.

I've always chosen voluntary simplicity and been happier because of it. "He who knows that enough is enough, will always have enough." --Lao Tze

[laundry_queen]

11. I knew I should have touched on voluntary simplicity in my post

I know a lot of people who practice it and prefer it. I also know a lot of people who do it for environmental reasons. It just seems to me the timing of these new stories seem to be trying to prepare the populace for accepting less. I think the key word would be 'voluntary'. Just like I've seen 'feel good' stories about several generations living under one roof. While it may be more common worldwide, I think it's sad that one or 2 people working full time jobs would be unable to provide shelter for their family and would have to move more family members in to make ends meet (or save those family members from the streets). As you said - so long as income is adequate. I think there was a recent study showing that people don't get any happier after $75,000/year. I'd venture a guess and say that's far above the average American's salary.

[gateley]

31. I think that's the distinction -- greed. Or in my case when

I had lots of money, some emptiness I felt I could fill by acquiring more THINGS. Gee, never seemed to work.

Now that I have just about nothing, it's almost liberating - but again, I'm referring to the things that I didn't really need or ultimately want, just the things I THOUGHT I did.

I always remember what they said of that Priest who was kind of the NYPD mascot who was killed in 9/11: He'd ask, "You know what I need? Absolutely nothing!"

It's good to be in that place.

Needing food, shelter, basics, another thing entirely.

[Brigid]

62. That would be Father Mychal Judge.

http://saintmychaljudge.blogspot.com/

[gateley]

72. Thank you -- yes! nt

[truedelphi]

35. Very good post. As long as your income is adequate to

Meet your household's needs, as long as you are living a fear-free lifestyle (Not afraid the utilities will be cut off, not afraid you'll have to coax your puppy to eat rice, etc) all is well.

But those days are long gone for many Americans.

[laundry_queen]

6. I'll elaborate here

For at least a month I've been watching news stories about how people are going to have to learn to 'live within their means' and that this is the new normal. I just finished watching some crap about a family who cut their living expenses in half and gave a bunch to charity (item: they lived in a million dollar home). While it's great they gave a bunch to charity, it's obvious they could afford to cut their 'stuff' in half. It feels to me like the media is pounding home this meme about how people will be HAPPIER if they downsize, have less, make do, etc. It just seems like some propaganda at work, I just get that feeling when I am listening to it. I just want to know if DUers agree. We all know that there are so many people who are simply unable to downsize any further. Is the media trying to get them to accept having nothing so they don't get any 'ideas'?

[Electric Monk]

8. From the Choosing Voluntary Simplicity website: Less “Stuff” Doesn’t Equal Happiness Either

Most of us would agree that a materialistic life is not a fulfilling one. More clothes, bigger houses, the latest electronic gadgets, newer and flashier cars… these things might bring temporary enjoyment, but a life based around acquiring things can feel pretty empty. The reason is simple… “stuff” doesn’t equal happiness.

So what about the idea that many people have nowadays that less stuff equals happiness? It’s really the same mindset carried to the opposite extreme. One group thinks that buying another new thing will make life better… one more purchase will make life happier. The other group thinks that ridding themselves of another existing possession will make life better… one more act of purging will make life happier.

Both groups are putting far too much importance on “things.” It’s possible to be happy living in one room with few possessions… or in a mansion filled with the finest of everything. It’s also possible to be miserable in both situations. Lasting happiness comes from relationships and spiritual and emotional fulfillment… it isn’t determined by how much stuff you have, or the process of acquiring it or purging it. The person who has simplified his life isn’t happy because he has less stuff… he is happy because he has achieved inner peace.

There are some very good reasons for purging and decluttering, but compulsive purgers who purge for the purge itself are just as excessively focused on stuff as compulsive shoppers are.

And that is not the path to achieving true and lasting simplicity.

http://www.choosingvoluntarysimplicity.com/less-stuff-doesnt-equal-happiness-either/

[laundry_queen]

12. Great post! Thanks!

[Electric Monk]

25. The two key words there being, of course "Choosing" and "Voluntary"

http://www.choosingvoluntarysimplicity.com/some-thoughts-about-voluntary-simplicity/

Some people think that voluntary simplicity means frugality, but voluntary simplicity and frugality are actually two different things. Although frugality is an important part of voluntary simplicity, frugality is a tool that makes the simpler lifestyle possible… not the goal. Voluntary simplicity does not mean you have to live in poverty or practice a lifestyle of self-denial. It means quite the opposite, in fact, because once you develop the habit of being frugal where it really counts, you will be able to enjoy a happier and more meaningful lifestyle, with more discretionary money and time, plus the freedom of being able to decide what to do with both.

Many people are tired of the consumerism and materialism that is “out there” these days. The constant round of needing more money to pay for more “things” locks some people into continuing on with jobs they hate and lifestyles that leave them feeling dissatisfied and unhappy. Many are looking for something, but they don’t know what. Voluntary simplicity provides an alternative… an opportunity to find balance in your life, connect with who you are, and create a lifestyle where you wake up each morning feeling a sense of fulfillment and excitement about the day ahead.

more...

[OneGrassRoot]

73. Thanks for sharing this. :) n/t

[RKP5637]

26. IMO, yes. "Is the media trying to get them to accept having nothing so they don't get any 'ideas'?"

[woo me with science]

58. Well, the first thing I thought of

was the mantra we have heard lately about how "the poor" in America "aren't really poor" because they have a refrigerator, or a microwave oven, or a cell phone, or the internet.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-18-2011/world-of-class-warfare---the-poor-s-free-ride-is-over

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. We are, but it is a conscious choice

Unique to our circumstances.

[Curmudgeoness]

9. Other. I don't believe that this is an organized effort

although I love to knock the PTB and wish I could think it was all their fault. :tinfoilhat:

I really do believe that most people are unhappy because they reach for more than they can afford, and have for years. The saying "keeping up with the Joneses" is not a new one. And when you always want and buy, you miss out on enjoying all the things that you do have, however small that may be.

[CrispyQ]

76. Life is about the things you do, not the things you have. ~Chris in the Morning

"Affluenza: The All Consuming Epidemic" is a great book. It's worth it for the Horsey cartoons, alone.

http://www.amazon.com/Affluenza-All-Consuming-Epidemic-Bk-Currents/dp/1576753573

[mdmc]

88. kick for northern exposure

:hi:

[pitohui]

13. it's selling people to accept less but it's bullshit & no one believes it

at the end of the day there is no such thing as DIY health care or dumpster diving a $50,000 a month cancer medicine

i don't care about fancy clothes or cars BUT to watch shitheads be given the right to decades longer life for no reason other than the fact that they had rich parents or rich connections -- that is evil and wrong

you can't be happier with less when "less" means that some are born w. a life expectancy in their 50s (the case with men in some urban centers) and others are born w. a life expectancy into their 80s

the wealthy live longer and it is just not fair, i did not choose my parents and my family background that made it impossible to ever dream of wealth, NOBODY chooses to be born poor

every day, in our face, it's on TV and the internet that wealthy women live longer and look younger longer, and it's all down to money, working out and wearing sunscreen does very little, it takes medical tech and a surgical team esp. if you are born w. health challenges on top of everything else

a rich crackhead may look like lindsay lohan because of wealth and pampering, the crackheads around me of the same age look nothing like her

MONEY changes everything and i'm tired of hearing how it doesn't

as a woman i'm judged by my looks, and looks are bought with money

as a human being, i want to live my life and live it fully, but a longer life is bought with money

i don't wanna hear crap about saving on a cell phone bill, that does fuck all to improve my life

money is freedom and choice and chances, who wants to live with FEWER/less freedom and money and chances??? nobody voluntarily accepts LESS freedom, choice, and chances unless they're suicidal and self-hating...the pretense that it's about "stuff" or "bling" is what gives it the stink of propaganda, it's about MONEY and how the few are hogging it all

[REP]

17. There's ice water in Hell today. I agree with you.

Money does not buy happiness, but it makes things a hell of a lot easier.

Things do not make one a better person, but some things - even seemingly trivial things, like a cell phone - can make one's life much easier.

[muffin1]

18. ...

:applause: and :hug:

[man4allcats]

15. happier with less?

If that's true, I should be ecstatic.

[NICO9000]

16. That may be true for possessions, but definitely not for $$$

[JustAnotherGen]

33. Agree

See my response down thread. Part of my shift was the disgusting consumerism I observed a few years back.

[RKP5637]

19. It's a confirmation of the US slide into third world status for the

21st century and the fact we will fail as a world leader as the rest of the world goes past us. We use 19th and 20th century solutions for 21st century problems, and also believe war always makes right. It's also confirmation of the failure of capitalism for ALL of the citizens. It didn't have to be this way, but it's been planned and engineered this way. Much for the few, not so much for the many. The bullshit in this country today runs deep.

[Exilednight]

20. People need to make do with less physical stuff, but more knowledge. n/t

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

90. School districts are also told to make do with less

So "knowledge" is being pushed off the table. At least for the hoi polloi in public schools.

[Trajan]

23. Well ... As usual, there is more to this than what you might think ...

On one hand; There was a time when 'regular folk' could strive to afford to buy a modest home, a couple of decent cars, maybe a vacation spot somewhere .... College educations for their children ... a decent retirement nest egg ..... and they did it on one income .... There has been a steady degradation of that 'American Dream' over the decades ... and it really boils down to wage suppression as the primary cause ...

Wage suppression is part of the conservative worldview ... It is their policy .... They have been effective in implementing that policy, even when Democrats held government ....

On the other hand - It's important to many human beings to find a way to be happy, in some way, no matter what the difficulties .... It elevates their drive and brings meaning to their lives ... If a parent, it helps instill confidence in children who tacitly look to parents for guidance on how to pull through life's difficulties .... It is a 'I don't care WTF happens, I am going to rise above this and find happiness anyways' kind of philosophy that supersedes questions of personal material wealth .... As long as you have a roof, clothing, and food ... You will survive .... Even in my darkest moments (I have had a few), I struggled to grab onto a thread of hope .... and you wont find hope in those dark places of the mind ....

I personally believe it is important to find a positive footing to stand on, even in the worst moments, in order to overcome and move forward ....

In that regard, I choose to disentangle my own sense of joy or dread from any control of external forces that may not have my best interests at heart .... I wont let them degrade the quality of my life and 'make me miserable' ..... They dont have that power - Only I do ....

That being said: We have a stake in this land and the wellness and welfare of our citizens; man, woman, children, black, white, brown, whatever ... We should have the ability to gain from our work, and be paid wages that correspond to the value we provide an employer .... Its the work of direct labor that makes wealth .... It is the product of a worker that brings wealth .... We have a right to the benefits of that wealth made from our own hands ....

To not pay workers for the value of their work is nothing more than theft .... Theft is what the conservatives have brought to workers by denying them the fruit of their labors .... by denying them reasonable return for their work.

This whole rigamarole is, I believe, responsible for the degeneration of the economy we used to enjoy, when workers were paid fairly, and received decent pension plans, and schools were available to the middle classes with reasonable tuition .... When medical care was a given and also much more reasonable in cost ....

The steady suppression of worker pay and benefits is the true cause of this whole mess .... Sure, the housing bubble plays a large role in how the economy fell off the cliff, but it isn't the primary cause, I believe .... IF wages had been allowed to track along with inflation, and keep up with increased family expenses, then the housing bubble may not have even happened - Families would have had the money to make larger payments, and there would have been LESS default ....

Decent wages are what brought prosperity to nearly every family .... for at least a few decades .... The good old days, eh ???

[laundry_queen]

30. oh, god, yes I agree with everything you said. Great post.

You're right, it's nothing more than theft. We need a modern day Robin Hood to move the 'theft' in the other direction.

[TheKentuckian]

24. My response is that if we are truly a humanitarian people then we MUST help

the poor wealthy by removing their excess unhappiness.

[laundry_queen]

28. *L* I totally agree. nt

[chill_wind]

34. Heh. :-)

:toast:

[SammyWinstonJack]

39. ...

:evilgrin:

[fascisthunter]

54. I guess They'd Rather Tell us to Be Happy with Less, so They Have More

Dig a ditch to build a mound. They live on the mound and the ditch gets deeper, and they know it is their doing.

[JustAnotherGen]

29. A little of both

I've followed "How much do I really need?" For a few years now. At the same time my income has risen year over year. I save a lot of money. But now my "stuff" is Experiences. Travel, food, wine, music, dancing, books, movies, theater. I've also made good friends with two Parisienne women about my age a few years ago and they inspired me. How many pairs of black boots, skirts, pants do you really need? Isn't it better to have a tasting of chocolate mousse from the bakery than a bag of oreos? Better yet - make a batch of cookies. It's not for everyone but it works for me. Example - I have peers that have a new car every year ... But my. 2006 Altima is AOK by me and will be when its rusted out. I don't need a big house. It's just my fiance and me - our two bedroom apartment is Ll we need, and we aren't tied down to a home.

[End Of The Road]

32. I've already got "less"

I've had "less" all my life. I'm content with it. But there's not a lot of it that I want to part with.

There are millions in the U.S. who have LESS THAN I DO GODDAMMIT. AND SOMEONE SUGGESTS THAT THEY CAN DO WITH EVEN LESS??????

YES, I'M SCREAMING.

[SammyWinstonJack]

36. Someone should tell that to the greedheads in this country.

Those that stock pile money. :shrug:

[Safetykitten]

38. It's a lifestyle. Who needs a bed or more than one pair of pants. Trendy, I say.

[Snarkoleptic]

40. If there's a version of this on PlumTV (wealthy folks network), it's something like...

Keep pushing the meme "Mo money mo problems" while you shop for a new Bentley.

Indeed, money cannot buy happiness but it can buy freedom and lessen struggle.

[Maccagirl]

41. As Jon Stewart called poor people with refrigerators

"Food chillin' mother fuckers".

[laundry_queen]

42. Oh, how I laughed at that one! When Jon Stewart is on

his game, he hits it out of the park.

[Generic Other]

43. Less Walmart less BP less Koch Industries less Fox News

less Monsanto less -- ohferchrissake -- I'll be here all night typing! Less of all of them. Brilliant idea.

[quaker bill]

44. You can be happier with less...

You are lucky to have a job at all... (take the cut in pay and benefits with a smile)

We have to participate in "shared sacrifice"... (assume the position, and smile)

Government must be run like a business... (services will be cut, and no, you can't find a manager to complain)

[noamnety]

45. Other - gross materialism simply isn't sustainable.

That's not why the powers that be promote these stories, but it remains the truth. The earth cannot sustain everyone living at the level that people believe is the american dream at this point. We cannot have cars that are replaced every few years, homes that are larger and larger, the energy use, etc. without wars to take over more and more of the resources of other countries.

[bvar22]

46. Other

Its an OLD Meme from the 60s.
The MORE keys you have in your pocket,
the LESS free you are.

Grow Your Own


--bvar22 & Starkraven,
living well on a low "taxable" income
and stuff we learned in the '60s.
Less IS More!
:hippie:


...though, admittedly, the Republicans & their friends The Centrist Democrats
have perverted the meaning.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone

photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed
You will KNOW them by their Free Trade & Tax Cuts.

Solidarity!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[shanti]

48. already happier with less

but it's a voluntary downsizing. dunno how i'd feel if it was involuntary though...

[Lone_Star_Dem]

50. That's kind of what I was just thinking.

I've totally revamped my life over the past several years. It's smaller and simpler, in some ways. Yet richer and fuller in others. I think it's much better. Yet, I chose to make these changes so I wouldn't be in a situation. I can't speak for how it would be for someone in a situation already and being forced to restructure.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

49. Well, I'm happier with less debt.

I know I don't need as much "junk" as some folks, too.

I'm happy with my older car.

I'm with my modest, but paid for home.

I'm happy with my realistic lifestyle.

I'm happy with my savings.

Other than that, I need my basics. :shrug:

[jmowreader]

51. Dave Ramsey is getting rich pushing this

The main problem I have with Dave Ramsey is he ALSO pushes house flipping--one of the major causes of the current financial catastrophe!

[TwilightGardener]

60. Yeah--eat rice and beans, never go out to dinner, never take a vacation,

never drive anything but a falling-apart piece of shit. Maybe some people want to live like that. I don't.

[jmowreader]

61. And he sells this shit as "Biblical," too

Ramsey's "Financial Peace" relies on seven "Baby Steps." They are:

Step 1: Build an emergency fund of $1000.

Step 2: Pay off all your debt. Get rid of the smallest debt first, then go from there.

Step 3: Put 3 to 6 months worth of expenses into savings.

Step 4: Invest 15 percent of your household income into Roth IRAs and pre-tax retirement.

Step 5: Save up enough money to put your kids through college.

Step 6: Pay off your home early.

Step 7: Build wealth to leave an inheritance for future generations, and give money. (Since this asshole claims to be a Christian, you know what this means...give all your extra money to the church!)

These are not baby steps in this or any other economy: They are leaps across seven financial Grand Canyons. I would be conservative in saying at least half the people who send Dave Ramsey $119 to $199--depending on whether you go to class or get the Home Study Kit--will never achieve financial peace.

[laundry_queen]

69. I know. They peddle this bullshit

for people who spend $400/month eating out, and have a $1000/month clothing budget, a $1000 entertainment budget, own 2 new cars with total payments of $1000/month and have a 5000 square foot house (for 2 or 3 people) with a monster mortgage. Those of us who already are hurting can't spend less. For me, my only extra discretionary spending I can reduce is my grocery bill. Yes, my kids have been eating more ramen noodles lately. My van is falling apart, even though it has low mileage. I had to borrow from my parents to fix it. I'm a student on top of it and I'd like Dave Ramsey to tell me how I'm supposed to save for my kids' college when I have to pay for my own?

ugh, so frustrating. They just don't get it. 3-6 months worth of expenses? do they know people have been unemployed for YEARS?

ugh.

[TwilightGardener]

82. Lots of what he says is common sense and my husband and I do it anyway,

like paying a smaller debt off and then applying it to a larger debt, try to set aside savings, and so on. But as you've said, he must be talking to people who are just blowing money like crazy on all sorts of shit--nobody really needs TWO brand new cars with TWO fat car payments, you don't need to fly somewhere far off and spend a full week in hotels and restaurants for vacation, you can go to a state park and camp, or spend a weekend getting to know a new city. It's like there's no middle ground. Anyway, I've noticed that many of his callers who call in to say they're debt-free often get "gifts" and inheritances from family, or own their own businesses--they aren't starting with fucking nothing.

[JoeyT]

52. Happier with less what?

Many of the people with "less" aren't missing the consumer goods. They're missing food on the table, a table to put the food on, a house to put the table in, a car that runs, medical care, dental care, etc etc. You're not going to be happier with less of any of that.

Strangely we're seeing "Less is more! Be happy with less!" pushed right alongside "Consume goddamn you! The only thing that gives you value as a person is the amount of gadgetry you own! If your iPod is more than a year old no one will ever love you!". So yeah, I'd say it's probably being pushed by the top to prevent the bottom from rioting and taking their shit.

[Ken Burch]

55. Funny how it's always those of us who already HAVE less

who are being told we could be happier with less than we have now.

It goes without saying, of course, that all rich people would immediately fall into a suicidal depression if they had to make ANY sacrifices at all...so NONE can be asked of them...

:eyes: :puke:

[laundry_queen]

67. Exactly. nt

[reformist2]

78. Yep. Frugality, thriftiness, morality are for the little people!

[HughBeaumont]

79. "Shared Sacrifice" . . . "The Rich take your 'share' . . . and YOU get to sacrifice!"

See how that works?

:mad:

[Ken Burch]

84. Damn skippy!

n/t.

[bhikkhu]

57. perhaps its my age, but I got the message from President Carter

and took it to heart. Life hasn't always gone in that direction, but a few years back when I lost a job "getting by with less" was second nature. We grew our first big vegetable garden that year, which has been a most enjoyable effort and a help to healthy eating.

A couple years later I quit smoking because I couldn't afford it and it certainly wasn't doing me any good, I quit drinking when my wife's take-home couldn't help with the groceries anymore, I stopped driving to work and started bicycling when gas spiked in 2008 and have kept it up, and generally we do what we can to keep expenses down, and try to teach our kids limits and self-discipline.

I certainly can't complain. I eat well and enjoy the bicycling, and the health of one's body spread to the mind, after a time.

[TwilightGardener]

59. Trying to tamp down our expectations in life. Make us happy we have a fridge and a Mr. Coffee.

[Brigid]

63. Our parents and grandparents knew exactly how to do this.

I live in a neighborhood full of modest homes of 1950s vintage. Picture it: ranch-style dwellings with 2 or three bedrooms, 1 or maybe 1 1/2 bathrooms, and 1-car garages. Inside, they were furnished with a television set in the living room, a record player, and a stove and refrigerator in the kitchen. Most had a family car. Credit cards were for the rich. People lived like this and considered themselves well off.

Now picture this: There is a small development just a few blocks from the first one. The homes are 5 or 6 years old, with 4 bedrooms, 3 or 4 bedrooms, and a 3-car garages. They are crammed full of HD televisions, ipods, microwaves, computers, capuccino machines, and other gadgets. The mortgage is probably underwater and credit cards are maxed out.

Which ones do you think have more realistic expectations of life?

[Skittles]

64. something between those two

[tomg]

65. There is a second group of reports

Going around that dovetail into this. It is " the poor aren't really poor" because they have refrigerators and relative to the poor in, say, Sudan they have tv's and the poor in say, Honduras, they have plumbing.

Funny how "the poor" ( oh, you mean your fellow citizens, your neighbors, your brothers and sisters) in this country are never compared to the poor in, say, Sweden or Finland. So, on one hand the middle and working class are being set up to accept less and less, while the new group to fear are those "whiny, free-loading poor" who have indoor plumbing and refrigerators and "don't pay taxes." oh, and are the "reason" why "we" have to accept less and less. I think I will go hit my head against a wall in frustration for a few hours.

[laundry_queen]

66. yup yup yup. You get it. nt

[HughBeaumont]

81. "Well, come on. You're not in a mud hovel eating bugs, so you really aren't POOR!1!!1!!!"

:sarcasm:

Loved when John Stewart said "those food-chillin' motherfuckers" :rofl:

Anyone who turns poverty into some kind of dick-swinging contest (as most Repubs tend to do) needs to be kicked in their shins. It's one of many Republican anecdotal conveniences, tried and true and fresh from Fox Snooze.

[Solly Mack]

68. I could do with less bullshit but nobody is offering that.

Certainly not the media.

[Raine]

70. It's to make people "feel good" for when they enforce poverty on all those not in the top 1% nt

x(

[NYC_SKP]

74. Maybe Better to "Buy Buy Buy, Get Get Get, Own Own Own, Stuff Stuff Stuff"???

The truth of the matter is that too many people around the world, and Americans in particular, are wasting away this poor planet and her resources by having and wanting so much shit.

As to your question, it depends on the source of these stories. Maybe there is a conspiracy.

Personally, I advocate daily for less, less, less, and a more humble lifestyle.

:shrug:

[DirkGently]

75. Many "poor" people have ... REFRIGERATORS! And SHOES! Home ownership is ... OVERRATED!

[Fuzz]

77. I'm fine with less, I could actually afford more than what I have, but being told to

while being screwed by tax policy and nearly every corporation I must deal with pisses me off.

[Odin2005]

80. Our hyper-consumerist society is killing the planet, it needs to stop.

Consumerism is an addiction, it gives people short-term pleasure but long-term suffering.

[Ken Burch]

85. Fine. But those at the top are the ones who need to stop first

The issue is those who want more mansions...not those who just want to keep their homes.

[demoblemocratic]

86. absolutely.

When the economy goes south, the money and power don't fall into a black hole. They fall into the hands of the people who already have too much of it.

[mdmc]

87. ..

[Bragi]

89. 80 % of DUers should think more about this

The dream of a just and fair and equitable America is incompatible with the market-driven consumerist goals of the right.

Truth is, the vast majority of (North) Americans are enslaved by consumerism, they CAN be happier with less, and more stuff will not create a happier, better and more sustainable society.

I reject as ridiculous the false left-wing meme that anti-consumerism is a right-wing plot.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

91. I doubt this is coming from the top 1%

The top 1% wealthy people wouldn't push "how-to" to the masses. They simply wouldn't see the masses, the struggle. The only lower-income people they see are their help, the nanny, the gardener, etc.

If they did recognize "the help", it's to lower their wages or lay them off to bring in an H1B worker.

:hi: