Why don't we commemorate Pearl Harbor like we do 9/11?

[Poiuyt]

I know that many are grieving over the 9/11 attacks, but I find the media exploitation overblown. I've been trying to figure out the differences between the two attacks and why we dwell on one and not the other.

[madokie]

1. Its the fear factor

[Autumn]

2. Sorry to say this but it's not as useful to the politicians as

9 11 is.

[Arkansas Granny]

16. Bingo!

[RC]

3. Pearl Harbor was real. 9/11 was in cahoots with Saudis for fun and profit.

They are still profiting.

[Swede]

4. One happened on a militarty base 70 years ago,the other in the middle of a city

to civilians,live on CNN only ten years ago.

[tammywammy]

7. +1 n/t

[emulatorloo]

27. Yes.

[bettyellen]

5. Time. those that were there ae precious few now. I have no doubt this is the last biggie for 9/11.

next time, we will be a generation past it.

[Donnachaidh]

6. no money to be made from it. No fear to be racheted up from it.

We won WWII.

pure and simple. Nothing to be squeezed from that memory that can fill corporate pockets. :shrug:

[Lex]

9. this is the correct answer

sigh....

[Dennis Donovan]

8. IMO...because Pearl Harbor wasn't really a "shared" event...

People heard of the attack on Pearl Harbor, but didn't see it (although it would ultimately affect many more people's lives than the 9/11 attacks did). Many people watched the 9/11 attacks as it happened, which I would say was (arguably) much more traumatic for the entire nation.

[MrsBrady]

22. oops

[MineralMan]

10. Here's a list of 60th Anniversary events in Hawaii for

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2001/Nov/28/ln/ln10a.html

December 7. The year of the 60th anniversary was 2001. We have such events. This year, it has been 70 years since Pearl Harbor. It's only been 10 since 9/11. Both things are commemorated less often and less elaborately as the decades pass, but we're still commemorating Pearl Harbor, even after 70 years. There will be numerous events in Honolulu this December 7, as well. This year, only a few of those who can remember that day are still alive. Each year there are fewer.

[Warren Stupidity]

11. I am trying to remember the anniversaries from my youth

I think it was a pretty big deal at least up until the early 60's. Of course a Big Deal back then was nothing at all like a Modern Media Extravaganza. It was more like a lot of sailors lined up and a speech or two and a few pictures for the next day's newspapers. No Big Build Up. No Celebrity A List Mashup.

[Hugabear]

12. You mean with over-the-top, racist and bigoted propaganda films and cartoons?

Granted, our media today is nothing but 24/7 exploitation...but doesn't mean that the media reaction in the 40s was much better

[iamtechus]

13. The Pearl Harbor targets were strictly military.

[rustydog]

17. Fucking bullshit. The target was human beings. Military

minds wanted to scare the crap out of America to keep us out of the war. They failed.

BinLaden, on the other hand succeeded...we (Bush Administration) began listening to all phone calls, e-mail messages and internet traffic. They set up FREE SPEECH ZONES and fenced you in! They infiltrated peace group meetings and tried to talk them into illegal protests to disrupt them...Bin Laden won.

War is not military targets, it is human targets.

[sarge43]

14. For that matter, why aren't we commemorating the Oklahoma City bombing?

Oh. Right.

OK City isn't a major media center and only gumment building was destroyed.

And a white Christian did the deed.

[Fla Dem]

21. Oh right, we DO.................

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=5&sqi=2&ved=0CDQQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oklahomacitynationalmemorial.org%2F&ei=KtZsTvPoMuW90AHLhsXlBA&usg=AFQjCNGJIZj2-9mlvW1GEjz7DP_NXL2WCA

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/293056-1

http://trueslant.com/suefrause/2010/04/19/oklahoma-city-bombing-15th-anniversary-honored-at-annual-remembrance-ceremony/

"An observance is held each year to remember the victims of the bombing. An annual marathon draws thousands, and allows runners to sponsor a victim of the bombing. For the tenth anniversary of the bombing, the city held 24 days of activities, including a week-long series of events known as the National Week of Hope from April 17 to April 24, 2005. As in previous years, the tenth anniversary of the bombing observances began with a service at 9:02 am CST, marking the moment the bomb went off, with the traditional 168 seconds of silence—one second for each person who was killed as a result of the blast. The service also included the traditional reading of the names, read by children to symbolize the future of Oklahoma City.

Vice President Dick Cheney, former president Clinton, Oklahoma Governor Brad Henry, Frank Keating, Governor of Oklahoma at the time of the bombing, and other political dignitaries attended the service and gave speeches in which they emphasized that "goodness overcame evil". The relatives of the victims and the survivors of the blast also made note of it during the service at First United Methodist Church in Oklahoma City.

President George W. Bush made note of the anniversary in a written statement, part of which echoed his remarks on the execution of Timothy McVeigh in 2001: "For the survivors of the crime and for the families of the dead the pain goes on." Bush was invited but did not attend the service because he was en route to Springfield, Illinois, to dedicate the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum. Vice President Cheney attended the service in his place."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing#Remembrance_observance

If you're not pleased with the Remembrance, then ignore it. No one is makng you watch.

[RKP5637]

15. 911 was more recent, hence commands more attention, and hence more profit. Pearl

Harbor was another generations' 911, most alive now never lived through it and doesn't have the attention grabbing aspect ...

[rustydog]

24. I wonder if Guiliani is selling memorial t-shirts at ground zero

[RKP5637]

30. Yeah, probably, or some of his stooges. ... but Giulian sees more profit in his 911 security

firm ...

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2009-05-11/news/17922220_1_giuliani-partners-rudy-giuliani-giuliani-spokeswoman-maria-comella

Giuliani, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Giuliani Partners LLC, which he founded in January 2002.

[ecstatic]

18. video footage. 911 unfolded live on TV so everyone around the country/world

was drawn into the story. A little different than just hearing about a bombing. Then when you add in the 24-7 cable news... well, you know.

[customerserviceguy]

19. We did commemorate it

Even after we managed to turn Japan into a peaceful nation, we still commemorated Pearl Harbor way into the 1960's. Of course, the war in Vietnam made these things not as desirable anymore, and the media just turned its attention away from those who still remembered people who died on that day.

9/11 was a direct attack on the actual United States (PH was in a far-flung US territory at the time), causing massive civilian deaths among a people that didn't even have the means to fight back (Flight 93 notwithstanding), and was covered live on television.

Maybe someday when we've defeated the jihadists, and all Muslims have gone peaceful, and those who remember a loved one who died ten years ago today will themselves be dead, we might just forget 9/11 the same way we did Pearl Harbor.

[aikoaiko]

20. You mean the day the lives in infamy.

The place where we built memorials -- even one over a sunken ship that people tour constantly.

:shrug:

[MrsBrady]

23. December 7th is federally recognized as Pearl Harbor Day

but is not a federal holiday.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Pearl_Harbor_Remembrance_Day

And it's also been 70 years since the event.
Many people that were alive at the time are no longer with us, so it's not fresh anymore.

At the time, most people didn't even know that Pearl Harbor existed, until the attack.
And then they would have gotten their news through radio (if they could afford one),
newspapers, or newsreels at the movie theater, and word of mouth.


9/11 is still fresh for most of us, many of us saw the second plane hit the towers. I'm in Texas, and because of television,
watched the second plane hit. It wasn't until a few minutes later that I realized I saw it live and wasn't taped footage.
I happened to be home that morning. I have a friend in NY who's brother died that day.

about 2400 people died at Pearl Harbor that day, mostly military
about 3200 people died on 9/11 (including the pentagon), majority civilian/nonmilitary.

One is not worse that the other, i'm not comparing them. They are just different situations with very different perpetrators and reasons.

Personally for me, though, my mother's parents were married the week before Pearl Harbor happened. So, for my family story, it's important.
My grandfather had been drafted and was off to California for training right before the attack.

[rustydog]

25. In a way, we do every time we lay a soldier, sailor, Marine to rest

and play taps.

[Lucian]

26. It's about exploiting a national tragedy, that aired on live tv, for other means.

Inciting fear, feeding the military industrial complex, hypernationalism...but definitely not for the sake of remembering the events themselves.

[rustydog]

33. "We'll return to our special tribute to 9-11 heroes

right after a word from our sponsors.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

28. Maybe Pearl Harbor left fewer questions to drown out?

[doc03]

29. Same here I know many are grieving over the 9/11 attacks.

Granted it was a terrible event but "Ground Zero". I always heard the area where a nuclear weapon exploded referred to as "Ground Zero" like Hiroshima or Nagasaki. The death toll with the World Trade center attacks were miniscule compared to the Nazi bombing of London and countless other cities in WWII or the civilian casualties we caused in Iraq and the 40 or so other countries we have bombed since WWII. I have heard the estimate of 30 million Russian deaths in WWII. Sure the 9/11 attacks were horrendous but our over reaction to them has destroyed our economy. Wasn't that Bin Laden's goal in the first place to bankrupt us both morally and economically? I always get the feeling when I hear "Ground Zero" that Americans feel superior to everyone else and our lives are the only ones that count. Hey if that makes people feel better to use a catch phrase go ahead I guess.

[elocs]

31. A comparison of 10th anniversaries, 9/11 and Pearl Harbor:

http://www.theadvertiser.com/article/20110906/NEWS01/110906028/Pearl-Harbor-s-10th-anniversary-remembered-far-differently-than-9-11-s

Now, as the nation prepares for the 10-year anniversary of 9/11, a look at how Americans marked the same milestone for Pearl Harbor shows that the way people commemorate events sometimes says more about their own times than a bygone era.

"They may be looking back at an event that happened years or decades before, but the way people think about them is governed by what's going on in their own historical context," said Michael Slackman, who has written books about Pearl Harbor.

"Each generation will give different meaning to the same historical events based on the issues that they're concerned about," he said.

More at the link.

[marybourg]

32. The tone of much of this thread (NOT including the OP)

Is as vicious, bitter & paranoid as anything heard from the mouths of the
Extreme right. This is not the left I remember or care to be associated with. I hope the worst of these nasty posts are from trolls.

[Dennis Donovan]

36. Although it's against the rules, can you cite the posts that do this?

:shrug:

[Warren Stupidity]

37. which left was that?

The HoHoHoChiMinhNLFisGonnaWin left? That left? Or some other left?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

34. Because American civic memory is quite short

Americans have little to no sense of history. 60 years is ancient history to most of us. Part of Europe are still feuding over events 500+ years ago...we think anything over 30 years ago is irrelevant. Ask a young person about the Vietnam war and see the blank looks you get.

This is both good and bad. First of all we tend to forgive past wounds and get on with things. We also tend to forget past mistakes and repeat them

[cali]

35. first of all Pearl Harbor happened out of the lifetime of most americans

secondly, the dead were mostly military whereas the dead on 9/11 were mostly civilians, thirdly we don't have the images of Pearl Harbor that we do of 9/11.

[Johonny]

38. because it wasn't on TV

911 happen on TV and everyone saw it.

[FSogol]

39. Time.

:shrug:

[Recovered Repug]

40. It was much more clear who attacked Pearl Harbor and why.

The enemy and victory were defined. Pearl Harbor was an attack by a country, 9/11 was an attack by a concept. Pearl Harbor started a war with a definite and successful conclusion. 9/11 started an ongoing war with a vague definition of victory.

[lunatica]

41. There's a difference when a military base or naval base is attacked

When you attack a peaceful civilian building it's simply different. Do I need to explain further?

[RZM]

42. The memory of Pearl Harbor was also subsumed into a much larger memory matrix of WWII

Granted, that has happened to some degree with 9/11 and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but those are very small conflicts compared to WWII (at least from the American POV). From 1941-1945, the entire nation was mobilized for war and a large percentage of the adult population either served in the military or in sectors of the economy re-jiggered for the war effort. It was 'total war' and thus has defined the memory of those years. 9/11 changed a lot of things, but it has not led to total war.

Also, the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan (especially Iraq), weren't entirely about the legacy of 9/11 either. The US had already waged war against Saddam once and the leftover tensions meant that another conflict there was never out of the question - sanctions and on and off bombing continued all the way until the second Iraq war in 2003. The 2003 war was probably as much the sequel to 1991 as it was a direct consequence of 9/11.

On a related note, there's the issue of victims. A good percentage of Americans lost in the 'war on terror' (or whatever you want to call it) died on 9/11, including most of the civilian victims. Pearl Harbor, on the other hand, represented a small percentage of military dead from 1941-1945.

Other posters have already pointed out other differences having to do with television and the civilian/military targets and the fact that Pearl Harbor was several generations ago.

[WinkyDink]

44. PH was never nationally commemorated.

[RZM]

45. Well there is a federally recognized 'Pearl Harbor Day'

Though you don't get it off work (of course you don't get 9/11 off either). But that wasn't really my point. My point is that Pearl Harbor became just one part of a much larger and more important memory set, while 9/11 is still probably the most significant memory event of the entire war on terror period, for reasons I explained in my post.

[WinkyDink]

43. No money in it.

[RZM]

46. There's no money in Pearl Harbor?

Because I even today it's still a popular tourist destination. It's definitely a place many people visit when in Hawaii and that counts for at least a little something. All of those hotel stays and meals have added up over the years.

Not on the same scale of 9/11 of course, but it's probably worth noting.

[Old Troop]

47. There were public commemorations in most states through the 50s and

into the 60s. I think the last one (at least that I'm aware of) was in Rhode Island several years ago. The Japanese government protested and a number of groups complained about the racist nature of the commemoration.

[whatchamacallit]

48. So they can repeat the lie until it can no longer be challenged

And to put you in the right headspace for supporting their wars.