College releases Loughner documents.

[cali]

what's shocking is that evidently no one tried to compel a mental status exam- and from what I've seen, he couldn't have passed one.

‘Creepy,’ ‘Very Hostile’: A College Recorded Its Fears
By MARC LACEY and SERGE F. KOVALESKI
Published: January 12, 2011


In 51 pages of confidential police documents released by the college on Wednesday, various instructors, students and others described Mr. Loughner as “creepy,” “very hostile,” “suspicious” and someone who had a “dark personality.”

He sang to himself in the library. He spoke out of turn. And in an act the college finally decided merited his suspension, he made a bizarre posting on YouTube linking the college to genocide and the torture of students.

“This is my genocide school,” the narrator on the video said, describing the college as “one of the biggest scams in America.” “We are examining the torture of students,” the narrator said.

<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/13/us/13college.html?src=un&feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjson8.nytimes.com%2Fpages%2Fnational%2Findex.jsonp

[Solly Mack]

1. I have to wonder why - somewhere along the way - he wasn't brought in for 72 hour observation.

I believe Arizona law allows for a court ordered mental health evaluation in the case of being danger to self or to others.

Were people too afraid to get involved? Just wishing to push the problem down the line? Just didn't care? Were his parents unable to see the problem or deal with the problem? Did law enforcement just not take additional steps? Why not?

From the article...

"The documents offer vivid firsthand accounts of Mr. Loughner’s contacts with law enforcement officials in the months leading up to the shootings..."

So police were aware of him and his behavior?

Contributing triggers and opinions aside, I can't help but think that somewhere along the way someone should have recommended a court ordered evaluation.

[Kali]

13. school did what it could

he was supposed to go for evaluation or quit, he chose the latter

hindsight is always better than foresight - you can't detain people for the mere reason that you are afraid of them - that kind of thinking leads to preemptive wars.

[Solly Mack]

14. But you can hold them for being a danger to themselves or others

(under Arizona law) and that's what I wondered about(based on his numerous incidents over time)... and not simply a case of being afraid of someone. Which I never suggested. From everything I've read it went beyond merely being afraid of someone.

And there's a procedure for determining that and I wonder why somewhere along the way someone with the authority to do so didn't try to do so.

I never once suggested or implied that he should have been arbitrarily detained for little to no reason.

[Kali]

16. my point is that we are seeing all this stuff in one place

every single event was something that happened in isolation - it took and accumulation of just a PART of all these incidences for the school to get to the point it did - several disruptions, reports, campus police involved. They didn't have the other evidence from friends and acquaintances not at the school or any other info. In turn those people didn't have some of the info from the school, parents probably only had vague personal experiences and then the school kicking him out (and who knows if they have their own problems?)

that all adds up to more than any evidence one single entity had to start a process of detention

apparently he hadn't actually threatened to hurt himself or anybody until very recently

the school came the closest to getting him evaluated by the actions they took. we don't know what happened after that - maybe the family was trying to do that - it can take a lot of time to get a plain old Drs appt sometimes, much less having a potentially dysfunctional family sort through the shock, their personal interactions, deal with a system that is not efficient, friendly or resource-abundant by any means.

cops don't/can't deal with nutty kid that hasn't actually done anything, parents often feel the same way - guiltily knowing they should do SOMETHING, not sure what, maybe money is a problem etc etc, kid behaves for a while, easy to slip back to denial and just keep struggling with day to day life... I can see it.

[Solly Mack]

18. For all I know - I don't think anyone knows the whole story yet...

several attempts were made along the way and got nowhere. Like most tragedies, there are points along the path leading up to it that create questions faster than answers can come.

Thank you! (for talking wth me about it)

[HereSince1628]

2. What kind of confidentiality do confidential records have?

As a college instructor I was required to not share information about students' grades or progress with anyone but the student because of federal laws covering student privacy.

Now the college can release confidential documents to a newspaper for publication? I don't understand this.

[kctim]

6. It was either that or wait for Wikileaks

'Confidential' doesn't mean what you think it means.

[JCMach1]

3. Seriously not as easy as you think, even in a country without student privacy laws

like where I work.

I have to deal with this issue quite a lot. Yes, as an administrator, I have the power to stop the student from registering, can call his/her parents, but have no power to either hospitalize, or arrest.

Even if we suspend such a student, because campuses are such open places, it is virtually impossible to stop them from coming back on campus and doing... WHATEVER!

[Kingofalldems]

4. He seems a little likeTravis Bickle

From the movie Taxi Driver.

[LostHighway]

5. He also said that the school was unconstitutional many times

In fact, the Constitution angle was much more prominent on the video.

[Ghost in the Machine]

7. "evidently no one tried to compel a mental status exam"

Actually, the college administration told him and his parents that he would have to show proof, via a mental evaluation, that he wasn't a danger to himself or others before he could return to campus.

[cali]

9. I'm talking about compelling him, not suggesting it.

[HereSince1628]

11. Jared needed to say some critical words in front of a cop. He didn't.

Police interviewed him and said the event that brought them weren't significant enough to warrant action.

Feeling threatened and being threatened are two different things, at least up until now.

I would expect for the immediate future the need for security forces to err on the side of 'an abundance caution' will be expanded throughout the nation.

[Ghost in the Machine]

12. "Get an evaluation or don't come back" isn't a suggestion..... n/t

[SharonAnn]

17. The school can't compel him to do that. Even the parents might not have been able to.

Law Enforcement can compel that, but they probably have to evaluate according to certain criteria.

[Tatiana]

8. I still don't comprehend how the parents did not try to get him evaluated.

Also, how is releasing these reports not a FERPA violation? Are they all part of the public record?

[HereSince1628]

10. Me either. n/t

[RedCloud]

15. FERPA violation.