The faux outrage over the 9/11 tributes angers me. It happened to All of us.

[demtenjeep]

and I am "Proud to be an American" you should be too...or is the party of tolerance only applied if it is your cause that is being "abused"


There is nothing wrong with God Bless America You can be a Democrat and still believe in Jesus Christ. I do. One of the best Democrats I have ever known was laid to rest a couple of weeks ago. He was a district Judge, a very strong Democrat and a quiet man of God.


What happened on 9/11 happened to all of us and I am glad we reflected today on something that was the most horrible thing to happen to our country in a long time. I lost my childhood best friend on that day. Maybe to me it was more personal, but for all of us it should mean something.


I shed several tears the last few days. I hated that day and what it meant but I am proud that we have continued to rebuild and survived.

I know I will probably get a bunch of unrecs and nasty comments, but I am tired of the intolerance I have seen lately from all sides. This is America, I am proud to be one. I celebrate the Red White and Blue and so should you.

[ChazII]

1. K&R n/t

[ixion]

2. It's not 'faux'. it's very real

and if there is a god, I don't know why the hell he/she would 'bless' us when we act so barbarically on a daily basis.

[Lucian]

4. + a million

[backscatter712]

33. Exactly. See my rant below.

[cherokeeprogressive]

3. K & R - Needed to be said. n/t

[Kurska]

5. I'm not religious, but some people are just professional malcontents

Pay them no mind.

[bigwillq]

6. I am sorry

about the loss of your friend. :hug:

[Bluebear]

7. Aside from anything else, who the hell are you to determine "faux"?

[Bluebear]

8. And what does 9/11 have to do with Jesus Christ?

[John Agar]

92. That what I didn't get.

Nothing wrong with being religious in my book, not a bit.

But what is the connection?

Did I miss something?

[Lucian]

9. It's hard to be proud of this country when the government...

is turning into everything it's supposed to be against. The eroding of our civil liberties, the preferential treatment to the rich while the poor lose, the treatment of the LGBT as subhuman, the wars, religion ruling...until those wrongs are right, I will not be proud to be an American.

I will not allow one national tragedy to make me a blind follower of the government. If that was the case, I would've supported Bush.

[emilyg]

14. Try living in other countries.

[Lucian]

17. What is this? One of those "love it or leave it" posts?

:eyes:

That fact that I like it enough to stay and fight says a lot about my character.

[emilyg]

37. Not at all. I have

lived in other countries and cherish America that much more.

[white_wolf]

21. Many countries are better than us.

I'd much prefer Germany,Denmark,Sweden, Norway,French,Canada,Japan, even England(as conservative as they are) over us.

[Lucian]

23. Exactly.

[patrick t. cakes]

30. what, like holland?

would love to.

[pennylane100]

49. That is such a straw man argument.

Of course there are many other countries that many Americans would not want to live in, but that take away our right to criticize our own country.

[Whisp]

65. Try Canada, it's pretty good.

I'm not into the rah rah we are the Bestest numberest onest eva, but I am happy here. Lots of people are.

[Violet_Crumble]

91. Love It Or Leave It!

I live in another country. One that has a higher standard of living than the US.

http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/

Think I'll stay here a while longer :)

[Tejas]

46. the gooberment is not "this country".

[RetroLounge]

10. "I am "Proud to be an American" you should be too"

You lost me already

:puke:

RL

[RaleighNCDUer]

77. I, for one, am VERY proud

of my amazing foresight to be born in Iowa, rather than in Waziristan.

Being 'proud to be an American' is rather like being 'proud for having won the lottery'.

[emilyg]

11. Thank you. I salut you.

[hlthe2b]

12. Here Here.... I agree totally... and I will recommend.

DU is in suffering under a very vocal intolerant minority lately.

I too would like to point out:

There is a middle crowd between pride in your country and intense blind nationalism;

Likewise all who believe in some form of spirituality or religion are not crazy, nor extremist, nor fundamentalist, nor the "enemy". We can respect "believers" just as we can atheists or the vast middle ground where I reside-- that of agnostics.

Empathy and desire to commemorate 9/11 does not equate to turning a blind eye to all the horrific "wrongs" committed since then-- in our name. Nor does it imply we condone such actions nor are concerned only for the American dead of 911 to the exclusion of those who died as a result of our wars (or any other reason).

Suggesting that some of the programming relative to today's memorial might be worth watching (or listening to) does not equate to giving a blanket "blessing" for all the crappy reporting and the bleak state of our media. Nor does it suggest condoning the media's role in lying us into war. Nor does it suggest that there is not excess or sensational coverage nor exploitation.

I could go on and on in response to some of what I have seen today.. but I will leave it there. The OP has a definite point.

[whatchamacallit]

13. Yeah, it happened to all of us

but *what* happened is debatable. For people still looking for answers, or for those who hate how the event has been exploited to start wars and change our lives, the enshrining of the 9/11 myth is an unending, unbearable nightmare.

[ProgressoDem]

15. I hear ya.

I can't take some of the overload, but that's just my personal preference. I can't stand the people who say America is a police state, fascist or some garbage like that and that we shouldn't be proud. As if the mistakes of our government make it so we can't mourn our lost.

Also K&R for being a Liberal Christian. For me, each informs the other.

[alarimer]

16. I beg to differ with the idea that it "happened to all of us."

It most certainly did not. It happened to the people it happened to. THEY have the right to still mourn. The rest of us do not; it is merely wallowing in some kind of maudlin nonsense. Actually it is wallowing for profit- all of these channels with all of their hyperbolic shows: i.e. "The day that changed the world." I kid you not.

[tblue37]

48. Exactly. It is emo memorial porn. nt

[nadine_mn]

89. that's the phrase I have been searching for

I have been calling it tragedy porn, but emo memorial porn is much better. So tired of it everywhere - images, videos, etc for weeks being advertised on every channel, website, etc.

[tblue37]

94. I seldom turn on the TV--never for news--so I didn't see any of it.

I knew what it would be like, though, and I read about it here on DU and elsewhere online, so I got the sense of what it was. I had recently been watching the marvelous comic Emo Phillips online, so when this memorial stuff started, the phrase sort of automatically came to my mind.

[white_wolf]

18. If there really is a God and he blesses this nation I don't want to deal with him.

We are the most corrupt,greedy, reactionary, barbaric, nation in the western world and one of the worst in the world period. Oh, and I'm not proud to be an American. I'm ashamed of how reactionary this country is. I even posted a thread a couple weeks ago saying this country makes me sick for the way it treats workers, poor, sick, elderly,gays, minorities, etc. I'll say it again: This country makes me sick! No 9/11 jingoistic nonsense will change that.

[astral]

38. I think you're right.

I do not understand why the media wants to swell our hearts with patriotism over this, it's very sick. The only time I had patriotism was in the 1st grade when the teacher drummed it into our heads how lucky we were to be born in America, and of course we knew nothing different so we believed it.

Was it true then? I do not know. It is definietly not true now.

Not to say it couldn't be worse in some other countries . . . .

The evil of this nation belongs to us because we lost the reins. We are responsible for what our government does, where it takes us, and the reaction of other nations.

[ixion]

84. spot on, that.

agreed 100%. The phrase 'God Bless America' is wrong for so many reasons, and on so many levels.

[Duncan Grant]

19. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson ruined it for me on 9/13/01.

No one seems to be telling this part of the story:

JERRY FALWELL: And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way--all of them who have tried to secularize America--I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this happen."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-CAcdta_8I

Seems to me that casting a critical eye on today's anniversary is a very good thing.

[dkf]

28. You let Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson determine how you feel about your country?

Its interesting how much power you give them. Personally I don't give a rip what they say.

[Duncan Grant]

73. Oh puh-leez, you'll have to try harder than that. (nt)

[Pirate Smile]

20. K & R

It's bizarre.

It is as if showing compassion toward fellow Americans is not acceptable.

It's been disgusting.

Saying the US sucks is awesome but recognizing & acknowledging the pain & injury caused that day is wrong.

It is easy to see where some of the old stereotypes came from.

[nevergiveup]

22. Thank you for your post.

Some of the insensitive remarks I have seen the last couple of days on DU are discouraging, to say the least. I am very sorry about your loss that terrible day and I also share your pride in being an American.
Peace

[Odin2005]

24. K&R

[dkf]

25. Thank you.

It was easily apparently to me that some feel they had no skin in this situation.

They were just lucky.

[patrice]

26. People should express their differences respectfully, insults & pain subtract from one's point.

Dealing insults & pain proves that it is insults & pain that are more important than whatever you say the truth is.

I have been staying out of a lot of this all day, but my guess is not that people are objecting to 9/11 observance, but rather the manner of that observance that excludes some essential aspects of 9/11, for example, the fact that if the deaths of about 3K INNOCENT Americans is a grave injustice, so are the deaths of 10s of thousands of INNOCENT Iraqis and it is the thing that made this happen to all/any humans that we should be commemorating, because if INNOCENT Iraqis do not matter, then neither do INNOCENT Americans and some of us think that fact is more important than the selective partial-truth that is being institutionalized in our observances.

[Nye Bevan]

27. I don't know why the whiners don't just turn off their TVs (nt)

[Dawson Leery]

29. It is hard to believe anyone who claims the events of that day

did not change this country forever. Bush and company used that event to further their horrible goals.

[judgegblue]

31. I too have deep sympathy for the families

of those who died on 9/11, as well as the many servicemen and service women who needlessly died in Iraq. I also grieve for the families of the victims of Oklahoma City and other acts of terrorism. I do resent the attempt to justify our unwarranted war in Iraq and continued waste of lives in Afganistan asa some righteous response to the criminal act of 9/11. Every American should take a few moments to ask themselves honestly why am I proud to be an American. Is it because we have the most powerful weapons? or that some of us have extreme wealth? We can't be proud of our healthcare system, or our deteriorating infrastructure, or how we imprison more of our citizens per capita than any other country on earth, or how we provide decent paying jobs for those wanting to work.

[backscatter712]

32. The outrage is real, because teabaggers, FOX News media whores and others are abusing 9/11

to manipulate the public.

I'm sorry, but it's fucking true. It's one thing to pay a little bit of respect. But the media just hammers us with 9/11 grief/rage porn, intercuts it with sappy Lee Greenwood Proud To Be An American shit to juice us up with endorphins, and tells us that we need to be respectful of 9/11, the dead, and the political causes and wars that have been welded to them by dishonest neocon assholes.

But oh, no, we can't complain, because if we diss the Bushies and the military-industrial complex, we're dissing the dead and their families.

Bullshit.

[emilyg]

34. Are you being forced to watch?

[judgegblue]

52. Just don't watch is not the answer to the problem

I avoided watching the media coverage because I believe the rightwing has used the crime of 9/11 to justify illegal response to that horrific event. We are confusing the justified mourning for the victims with pride in America. Certainly there were many true heroes on that day and thereafter, but we should not use that tragedy to justify the immoral and illegal acts of our government.
We do have a right to object to the way that the MSM inundates the airways with the rightwing message. We shouldn't have to turn on the food channel, etc. to avoid the constant and unwarranted coverage of any crazy teabagger who takes cheap shots at the President.

[ixion]

83. In a matter of speaking, yes

everywhere I went yesterday it was mentioned either on the TV, Radio or in other's conversations. It was impossible to escape.

[in_cog_ni_to]

35. Actually, it's embarrassing to be an American. We ARE hated all over the world...

you know that, right? What's to be proud of? Our idiot-in-chief started 2 illegal wars because of 911. He has murdered thousands of people and we are STILL murdering people. I'll be damned if I'm EVER proud of that. Perhaps I can recommend a book for you to read...open your eyes: "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" by John Perkins. Read it and then come back and tell us how "proud you are to be an American."

and the 3 days, 24/7 911 stuff is overkill. Have a moment of silence and move on. My G-d. Rehashing that day every freakin' year is NOT healthy! And I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY dislike someone telling ME how to FEEL and THINK.

[Tejas]

43. "Rehashing that day every freakin' year" - ooh, classy!

If the good people of New York etc want to rehash, then leave them be, it's not exactly any of your business. There's a zillion cable channels out there, pick one and watch something else. Better yet, turn off the TV and go visit a loved one's grave.

[in_cog_ni_to]

57. About as classy as the OP telling people how to feel and what to think

about the obscene profit-making MSM coverage. Sorry to see another DUer who accepts the corporations profiting off the people who died on 911.

Except for the football game (even there we couldn't escape the propaganda), our TeeVee has been OFF all weekend. And how the hell do you know what EVERYONE in NY wants to do on 911? You don't.

[Mimosa]

55. ^ AGREE! ^ n/t

[Waiting For Everyman]

79. A different opinion...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1922771

[JohnnyLib2]

36. Rec. No further comment

[Lex]

39. Respect people who don't feel the same as you. Why does it bother you

that people feel differently than you, ask yourself that.

[DeepModem Mom]

40. K&R

Intolerance, as you say, can come from more than one direction.

[JVS]

41. Unrec for trying to make the world safe for rightwing horseshit.

That's really not a worthy cause at all.

[bemildred]

42. To hate it I would have to respect it, and I don't.

It's nationalistic jingo babble, and it does not become cool because it is about us.

[Modern_Matthew]

44. I'm not proud of anything that happened by accident.

I was born American. I like being American. But I have no pride in a non-achievement.

Yes, I stole that from Carlin. RIP!

[xmas74]

45. The 9-11 tributes anger me

because they're commercialized. What should be a very simple and solemn occasion has instead become an over the top "not to miss" television event. A national moment of silence would have more than sufficed for the majority, as does the addition of displaying the flag on homes. Everything else is too much. Anything else takes away from day-to-day living, which I personally believe is the best way to remember those who left us.

I could mention the message given at church today but it would really cause an argument from all sides.

[EFerrari]

47. Fine, you can have mine then.

And your OP demands tolerance while showing none. Fail.

[ScreamingMeemie]

50. It didn't really happen to me, personally. It happened to my country.

My heart broke, and I was horrified. And then...I moved on. It's what the country I love was supposed to do. All of us have personal tragedies. I look at this as thousands of personal tragedies... that we feel badly for. How many channels do we need to devote to it? I chose not to watch. That doesn't make me an America hater. How many times do we have to stop and remember something that I want to move on from? My heart will always be with those who lost a loved one (you included) but I am busy raising my own fatherless son. I have yet to build a monument for his father. There are moments that bring me to my knees...times that I scream in the shower over the unfairness of it all. All the while, people tell me to (expect me to) move on. As to God... a kind and merciful God would not allow these horrible things to happen (in my opinion). I don't begrudge you, or poke fun of, your beliefs. I ask that you respect my thoughts as well... and not get ruffled up and call them "faux" thoughts or label it as even outrage. That shows intolerance.

Thank you.

[Joe Fields]

51. I have a different view...

George W. Bush and Dick Cheney was the worst thing to happen to this country in a long time, maybe since this country's inception. The amount of harm they and their eager greedy minions have done is incalculable AND in many instances irreparable.

I don't mean to sound as if I am minimizing the horrific attacks on 9/11. But in my mind, the Bush presidency far outweighs 9/11.

[Mimosa]

53. The US has taken revenge to extremes.

How many hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims has America killed?

Why did we LET our country invade Iraq?

We've no right to be 'remaking' the Middle East and toppling their governments. Actions the US took back in the 1920s and especially the 1950s have come back to harm us. Our alliances with the oppressors caused Bin Laden and his followers to strike at us.

[MrSlayer]

54. I love the idea of America for sure.

The practice, not so much, particularly over the past thirty years or so.

[SusanaMontana41]

74. I, too, love what my country could be.

Thanks for saying it the way you did.

[NJCher]

56. It's an event on the order of a Pearl Harbor

We have many, many channels and each one felt they needed to do at least one production for 9/11. To you it seems like being overwhelmed. To them, it seems like doing their program or two as a tribute. Should they not do a program? To do so would be to ignore a very important event.

I watched most of the programs and was surprised to see that most of them ran without commercials or with a limited number of commercials. So much for your commercialism argument. It cost them big money to do that.

Please note that I do not watch CNN or MSNBC on a regular basis. I may have watched one or two 9/11 programs on these channels over the past few days. I am in the habit of muting all TV commercials and I do this automatically.

As far as none of the rest of us having a right to mourn, how dare you? I have compassion and grieve for them, just as I do for those in Iraq or Afghanistan who are killed by a drone or any of the other senseless violence the U.S. government is inflicting.

This is an event on the magnitude of a Pearl Harbor. And you think it's not worth commemorating? Moment of silence and move on? What kind of person could do that?



Cher

[judgegblue]

58. Big difference - Pearl harbor was an act of war by a foreign nation

Our response was appropiate to declare war on Japan. Our invasion of Iraq would be the same as if we invaded Mexico after Pearl Harbor. More analagous to 9/11 is the Oklahoma City bombing. Both were crimes of terror. Who should we have attacked after OK City?

[in_cog_ni_to]

61. I also don't remember EVER having 2-3 days, 24/7 non-stop Pearl Harbor

programming either. They have a few networks that may show a WWII movie or two and perhaps some documentaries, but they have NEVER done to Pearl Harbor what they are doing to 911.

[NJCher]

63. excuse me?

What is there about the word "magnitude" that you do not understand?

I did not say "analagous." I said "magnitude."

On edit: And as far as this goes: "...but they have NEVER done to Pearl Harbor what they are doing to 911."

You've got to be kidding me. I can't believe anyone would say such a thing. Do you think there were 247 cable channels in WWII?


Cher

[judgegblue]

67. The magnitude in terms of casualties is clearly similar

The big difference is that Pearl Harbor precipitated our entry into a world war. The crime on 9/11 was used by Bush/Cheney to launch an illegal attack on a sovereign nation that had nothing to do with 9/11. The main difference is our national response to these two historic events. While we should mourn the victims, it is difficult to speak in terms of national pride given the war in Iraq which resulted in many more American casualties.

[in_cog_ni_to]

71. There has NEVER been 24/7 non-stop programming of Pearl Harbor Day. Period.

There's cable channels NOW.... 24 hour cable programming has been around since 1980. There are no networks (except maybe the military channel or History channel) that does 24/7, endless stories about Pearl Harbor. It doesn't happen... That's my point.

[scheming daemons]

75. If 24-hour cable news existed in 1951, you can bet your ass there would've been.

[Waiting For Everyman]

81. There were WW2 documentaries on every Sunday in the 1950s.

It was a British program called "Omnibus", one of my favorites as a kid. It was all real footage and was more informative about WW2 than what we were taught in school.

[pennylane100]

59. First, I am very sorry that you lost a friend on that day

But I do not think it is your place to tell other people on this board what they should or should not be proud of.

There are many things that we as Americans have a right to be ashamed of lately. We have a former president and vice president who should be in the Hague for war crimes because the act of terrorism that took your friend's life also cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis when we waged an illegal war against them.

We still illegally detain and torture people in Guantanamo and we routinely kill innocent people in other countries when our drones miss their target. We will never be able to be proud of our country until we admit and make amends for our own war crimes. Not only do we have a right to speak out about these injustices, we have a duty.

[Lint Head]

64. Thanks for adding this reply. I'm sorry for the loss of the poster's friend.

I wish there was the same regard for every close friend of mine killed in Vietnam for no reason and the several hundred thousand dead human beings in Iraq that had nothing to do with 9/11.

[Bluebear]

60. why the hit and run?

[Bonobo]

62. It would be easier to mourn if the death of 3,000 did not cause us to kill 300,000. nt

[LeftyMom]

66. Patriotism is moronic and don't get me started about religion.

The only thing stupider than adults with imaginary friends is adults who think they're special because their mom squatted them out inside certain imaginary lines.

[readmoreoften]

68. Why should I be "proud" to be born in a particular location?

Why should I believe in "Jesus Christ" or care whether or not people do? Why am I supposed to burst out into patriotic fervor because a group of people committed mass murder? If I was murdered I sure as hell wouldn't want my family waving flags on my behalf. I'd want them to remember me PERSONALLY and mourn.

[obxhead]

69. We aren't rebuilding.

Since 9/11 all we have done is erode our freedoms, destroy our economy, create enormous debt, and kill thousands upon thousands of innocent people.

9/11 changed everything. We have proven to the world beyond any reasonable doubt that we are as evil as the terrorists say we are.

[whatchamacallit]

72. Exactly. When you base the direction of your country on a fiction

you end up hopelessly lost in the woods. That's where we are, and we're not getting out until we own up to the lie.

[Lucian]

76. Instead of rebuilding, we're moving backwards.

We haven't moved forward in the ten years after 9/11.

I totally agree.

[woo me with science]

87. +1 No, we aren't.

The horror has only metastasized since that day. This event has been used to justify policies that have caused and will continue to cause unfathomable suffering.

[Warren DeMontague]

70. Yeah... uh, what the fuck does Jesus have to do with it?

I'm proud to be an American, a country whose wholly secular constitution embodies many ideas put forth by the late Thomas Jefferson, who also said:

"Priests...dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subversions of the duperies on which they live."

[hlthe2b]

78. If Skinner hasn't seen the back & forth on this & other threads this weekend

and decided to take the proceeds from the last fund-raiser and high tail it to the Bahamas, then he's got the patience of a saint.

Heaven knows, I couldn't blame him if he did. Sheesh... :shrug:

[cali]

80. I don't begrudge how you feel but don't tell me that I should feel the same.

I don't celebrate the "Red, White and Blue". I don't see the rebuilding. I mourn what we've become over the last 10 years. Sorry, but that's how I feel and it's every bit as legitimate as what you feel.

[socialshockwave]

82. Rec. I'm just surprised no one unrecced your post for being religious.

as that seems to be the prevalent thing on DU.

Either way, OP - I agree. 9/11 is a day not to go left or right - it's to mourn together.

[woo me with science]

85. ...

I weep for this country.

[Douglas Carpenter]

86. and one doesn't need to believe is some brainless flag-waving horse shit to believe in Jesus Christ

either. That certainly doesn't go along with MY idea of the Prince of Peace who came to proclaim good news to the poor and the oppressed and set the captives free.

What happened on September 11, 2001 was terrible and no doubt most Americans felt then and feel now some real sadness about those horrible events. But the greatest sadness of all is how America and all too many Americans behaved so badly and thought so badly and reacted so badly in response to those horrible events of that terrible day. That is the greater reason to mourn and I'm afraid that is something that did happen to all of us. Perhps this is the reason we should all mourn and perhaps as a nation repent together.

[City Lights]

88. Unrec for scolding others about how they should feel.

How you feel is your business, and how I feel is mine.

[Iggo]

90. Tolerance is a funny thing.

Yes, it happened to all of us, including me, and I'll remember it however I wish to, thank you very much.

If I was done crying about it around nine and a half years ago, you need to let that go.

[Lex]

93. It's funny how some people think tolerance runs only one way. The OP has none for people

who feel other than he does. As if the 24/7 coverage for 9/11 isn't enough, we ALL have to get in line and feel the same as the OP.