Another 9/11 OP

[H2O Man]

“We are really sorry for the innocent people. This isn't about government policy or religion. It's about human beings. It's about mothers and fathers. Sons and daughters. Brothers and sisters. …

“I think the conflict today is money verus money. Without money, those terrorists could not have done what they did. But that doesn't concern me. What I am concerned with is the innocent human beings who have suffered and died.”
– Onondaga Chief Paul Waterman; AHSKWA, Vol. 20, Early Spring 2002.


In the last interview that I did with Paul, we discussed some of the events of 9/11. I took some time today to re-read that interview, while thinking about that tragic and violent day.

This morning, one of my teen-aged daughters was asking my wife and I about it. She had viewed some news stories, and was quite upset by them. I told her that I was trying to be selective in what I watch or read about this topic; there are many other days when I access a wide range of information on 9/11, but today would be different. For example, no television for me. Instead, I would be venturing out to my pond, and after feeding the birds and fish, I would think about what Paul said in that interview.

I assume that most other forum members have had their fill of 9/11 news stories and discussions. But I'll include a few quotes from Chief Waterman, for anyone who might be interested. Here is one on the US attack on Afghanistan:

“But listen: when you say people are divided, think about this. Your military is dropping bombs and food on Afghanistan. That's a divided approach, isn't it? What would have happened if they brought food before? Why isn't it just as important to fight starvation and suffering, as it is for oil and money?”


On the topic of tensions between different groups of people:

“I'm not sure that everything can be explained. Some things you either understand, or you just don't. Maybe the goal should be to teach respect for other people, even if you don't understand them.”

And:

“I don't think anyone who kills innocent people because of their language or religion is a hero.”

On President George W. Bush calling people “evil-doers”:

“Well, he's the same way. Those people in Afghanistan are so poor and miserable. They suffer when bombs kill their parents, and they hurt when bullets kill their children. So even if Bush believes that what he is doing is right, he has to commit evil acts to achieve his goal. ….

“I feel bad for the soldiers, too. Most of them are young men. They are patriotic. Like those men who fought in Desert Storm, for your national interest. But I can't remember the price of gas dropping much since then. So who's interest was it in?”

On the threat of chemical or biological war:

“Do you mean the poor people who live on chemical dump sites? I think they will suffer and die. This is not a new threat, really. It's just on a different scale.”

On finding meaning:

“Live. Don't be afraid to live. We can live through this time.

“Or did you mean in the past? They were nice to my family. When we were cold, they gave us a blanket. It was warm. But it had small pox. It killed thousands of my family.

“I did reburials at the Penn Site. Germ warfare killed them. At the Bloody Hill Site, it was smallpox. Some of the burials were of parents and their children. They were holding hands. This seems to happen when germ warfare kills families.

“But we are here today. It's our turn to live now. And if you are reading this, it's your turn as well. Make the most of it. Enjoy your family.”

[Lucinda]

1. Thank you.

♥
It's really pretty simple isn't it? Common sense.
And I really love the final quote.
Thanks much. :)

[H2O Man]

3. Thank you.

Paul was an amazing human being.

[sabrina 1]

2. Very wise words.

I wonder why anyone would unrec it?

[H2O Man]

5. Thank you.

I suspect that the person(s) who unrec this do so because they dislike me. (However, I suppose it's possible that some people would have found Paul offensive, as well.)

The important thing, in my opinion, is that some other people do like the gentle message of the OP. That's what counts.

[sabrina 1]

8. I think his words would have been very much appreciated here

when I first found DU, back around the election of 2004. Now, things appear to have changed to some extent. I think Democrats, or part of the Leadership of the Dem Party, have allowed themselves to be bullied by the Right into believing that to get the respect of the Right (why they should care about that is another matter) they need to appear to be 'tough'. They have mistaken 'tough' to mean acting like the bullies on the right. But having spent quite a lot of time engaging rightwingers, I have never been impressed with their 'strength'.

This Indian Chief understands strength. Rightwingers and some Democrats now, do not imo.

[H2O Man]

20. Good points.

Thank you.

I like your point -- 100% correct, of course -- about the differences between strength and bullying. The two are opposites.

A few times over the years here on DU, on OP/threads about bullying, I think that I've told a story about a childhood experience. I was on a kids' wrestling team at school. My sport of choice was boxing; I enjoyed wrestlinng, but was not particularly good. But that's beside the point. Our coach was a fellow who believed himself to be a US Marine drill instructor. Sporting a crew cut, he was offended by what he considered to be my long hair .... which at that time wasn't even long. One afternoon, after practice, he saw me waiting for my ride home. He assaulted me, giving the reason that he thought my long hair resembled a cat -- and he hated cats.

Shortly thereafter, my oldest brother drove up to pick me up. When I told him what had happened, he went into the school, looking for that coach. My brother was a professional boxer, and an utterly ruthless, often cruel, street-fighter. He found the coach.

Thereafter, that coach pretended that I was his absolute favorite person on earth. I viewed this with contempt: I knew he disliked me, and was merely seeking to avoid another beating from my brother. I have seen the guy in recent years, and he still pretends that he likes me. That is the cowardice that defines bullies.

For many years, I believed that my brother represented the ultimate in strength. As a teenager, I measured my self-worth on my ability to destroy anyone that I fought. And, oh boy, did I get in a lot of fights. I actuallt tried to define myself as the avenger who sought and destroyed bullies; today I realize that I wanted to be viewed through that same lense I had saw my brother through that day after wrestling practice.

As a young adult, I came into contact with Chief Waterman, and a couple other men, who defined strength and power entirely in the context of gentleness. It confused the heck out of me at first.It was outside of any experience I had previously had. So it took a while to take root.

I'm rambling again, a habit I've picked up in my old age! Sorry about that. Your post got me thinking ....

[sabrina 1]

30. A great story, and I find myself cheering for your brother.

Which probably shows I need to learn some wisdom also! Otoh, I do think that bullies need to be confronted, so I can't help it, I am glad you had someone around to confront the bully. It most likely had the added effect of making him more cautious in the future.

However, it does take enormous strength to deal with such people without anger. Most of us never acquire it though.

His pretending to like you! That made me think of politics, and how phony so much of it is. How when someone is 'in' they have so much support, but as soon as they are considered 'out' how quickly that support disappears. We see it here a lot lately. So many good people now persona non grata because THEY did not change when expected to.

I wonder will we ever evolve to a point where principled people are in charge. I know they exist, but who can blame them for not wanting to participate in the current political situation?

Thank you for the story, it is a good one. Btw, is the coach a Democrat or a Republican? Just curious :-)

[Horse with no Name]

9. Who could dislike you?

I can't imagine a soul.I gave it a K&R.

[H2O Man]

21. Well, thank you.

How nice!

[Change has come]

10. There must be 10 freepers here at any given time.

Probably more on a day like today. These lessons must make their heads hurt.

:kick:

[H2O Man]

22. Right!

I agree with your estimates .... and suspect that Paul's message just ain't what they were looking for on DU today. Probably very upsetting for them.

[sce56]

23. Maybe ten who use multiple handles to logon so as to increase their strength

[stevedeshazer]

4. Sage advice.

Recommended.

[H2O Man]

6. Paul was unique.

I'm glad that some people here appreciate his message! Thanks.

[Mnemosyne]

7. K&R...

[MrSlayer]

11. Wisdom.

:kick:

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Wise

[me b zola]

13. Today I celebrated the Ethiopian New Year with local folks at a neighborhood park

It was a good day.

[rosesaylavee]

14. Thank you for this OP

One of the few I have read from this weekend on the anniversary yesterday. I was fortunate to have had attended a picnic with fellow UUs yesterday - beautiful weather, good food and kind people. I enjoyed the day and kept the TV and radio off.

"Maybe the goal should be to teach respect for other people, even if you don't understand them.” Amen to that.

[mmonk]

15. Recommended.

[Odin2005]

16. K&R

[hootinholler]

17. Can I be adopted by the Onondago?

Thank you for all that you do. You have helped lift my heart more than once!

-Hoot

[OneGrassRoot]

18. I love this entire OP, but especially this part:

"I'm not sure that everything can be explained. Some things you either understand, or you just don't. Maybe the goal should be to teach respect for other people, even if you don't understand them."


Thank you.

K&R

[russspeakeasy]

19. Thanks...

:toast:

[spanone]

24. k&r

[G_j]

25. “Do you mean the poor people who live on chemical dump sites?

right on the money

[LadyInAZ]

26. i for 1 have grown tired of all the talk about 9-11

i witness from television screen where i worked... (corporate)... building burnig... then suddenly the building fell... my home town/state was nervous and started to evacurate downtown and surrounding airport areas... i was scared as i try to make my way home.... worried about my kids at school while US is under attack. we do re-live this over and over each year. its to reminds us what happened... but i also see people capitalizing from this tragetic event in our history... it good to remember... but you do see alarming amount of cons too.

[malaise]

27. Excellent post

Thanks Water man!!

[joeybee12]

28. Exactly...knr

[indepat]

29. The arch evildoers of the 21st century surely will rank up there among the arch evildoers

of modern history. :patriot:

[mother earth]

31. K & R, thank you for bringing this to us, H2O Man.

I couldn't stomach the ten year anniversary, we have learned nothing.

Let's honor life, you will know them by their deeds truly. Hold those you love close and savor those times.

[Me.]

32. I Found It Interesting That He Said "Your Military"

[maxpower]

33. Thank you

Your posts are always thought provoking and wise. You are truly what makes DU and America a better place.



Peace to you and yours,
Max