The next time that you hear whiny childish brats gripe about "socialism"--

[eridani]

--please don't say "That isn't really socialist," even if it's true. You've just repeated your opponent's argument again.

Understand that what they are attacking is the very notion of public goods. Call them on it and use that term. "I think that transportation infrastructure, schools, public safety, health care etc etc are (or should be) PUBLIC GOODS."

[Rex]

1. Is this from an argument somewhere else?

Did the socialist lose?

[eridani]

8. What socialist? To people who think that words ought to have meanings

--socialism generally means a system in which everything is a public good. Not many advocate that, and those who do are pretty precise about how they use words.

[white_wolf]

2. See I'm divided.

They are attacking the notion of public goods, but they really do think it is socialism and I won't lie their ignorance annoys me. It makes me want to beat them over the head with a copy of Das Kapital, maybe they could learn by osmosis.

[polly7]

3. Ok, what a coincidence. I just got home from a rare night out

at our little local bar and was sitting next to the biggest know-it-all in town. This man's family has millions from oil mineral rights and he was fortunate enough to work and retire at a very young age. He was bitching big-time about 'socialism' and how only lazy people get anything out of it ...... I almost cold-cocked the *! See, we have our neo-cons too. I'm just really pissed off I let one of them ruin my night out.

[Arthur3284]

4. I know right wingers wouldn't be willing to lose cops and the prison system.

[mattclearing]

15. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Mimosa]

16. Wrong.

Sorry, they live in gated communities with private cops. Super rich even have body guards. The 'collective' safety doesn't interest them.

[duhneece]

17. That's right. "Green Zones" are gated communities

The rest of us are on our own...Thank the Goddess I have a DU community and have connected with other progressives and Democrats in our right-wing conservative county.

[BeFree]

5. This country is 75% Socialism

And that is the best part.

As long as Americans are allowed to believe that the best part of America does not even exist, we will continue to have huge problems. Denial breeds insanity. And here we are.

[alp227]

6. or use "commons" as Thom Hartmann refers public goods

they used to teach about the commons before civics education got scrapped in the '80s, according to Hartmann. Also get those who play the socialist card to think about the effects of if the commons got turned over to corporations whose interests are stockholders and executives, not we the people.

[CBHagman]

7. In my experience, people who make those arguments...

...don't seem to register that the system isn't pure. They buy some bullshit about the private sector being purely private and enjoying NO favors from government, when in reality industries employ armies of lobbyists to get what they want. Those who see the specter of socialism in SCHIP and Medicare and Social Security act as though there were no subsidies for corporations, no taxpayers financing stadiums they can't afford to visit, no billionaires paying lower in tax on their capital gains than a wage earner pays on his/her yearly income.

But it's all about making boogymen of anything you don't like. The House Republicans came in declaring themselves worried about overspending (funny how they didn't notice the spending from 2001 to 2008, huh?) and promptly went after Planned Parenthood and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. Which is like trying to lose weight by cutting out breath mints.

[raccoon]

20. Great post, especially:

"Which is like trying to lose weight by cutting out breath mints."

I said something similar regarding cutting the budget by cutting the programs that actually benefit regular American citizens.

[demwing]

9. i agree, we need to stop backtracking and running from the word

I'm nothing but a Socialist?

Thank you, but I'm a Socialist Plus. I don't just want this weak tea of half-Socialism, I want a damned cup of Socialism Morning Thunder. I want All education to be free, all the way through post-graduate studies. I want Hospitals to be free. Easy breezy, no man in the middle, no cost, no deductibles. I want a public park where every golf course used to be, and I want science and art museums to be fully funded.

I want elections to be counted by hand, and funded by tax payers - not corporations. I want PBS and NPR full funded at the federal level, and on a station in every town and village.

I want our kids taught in public schools by union members. And in the same way some people do for the military, I want our kids to learn to say "Oh, your son/daughter is in a union? Thank them for their service to this country!" As far as those military members? I want them home in a union job. not a wooden box.

I want "Socialist" to be a word that inspires feelings of patriotism, not contempt. I'm tired of running from the best things this country has done.

[eridani]

10. You are mainly not advocating any changes in the idea of what a public good is

With the exception of health care, which is only partly a public good, you are just saying that the ones we have should be better funded. internet is a public good; iPods are not. Although policies that promote more discretionary income for all need a lot of public goods to function, discretionary income is not itself a public good.

[demwing]

12. Sorry I didn't list everything I believe in

I thought a general statement of support for you thread would be enough

[eridani]

14. Not knocking you. Surely it must bug you that people who are always hollering

"socialism," have not a clue what they are talking about.

[sam11111]

11. "dollar-a-day" wage is the Private Sector goal. far worse than pay in Co ops,WPA and govrnmt

Socialist Finland - world's highest Quality of Life scores

Socialist Denmark - tops survey as world's happiest people ( I know, they just dumped center-right gov.: but their center-right policies are far left of us and wd be termed Socialist here)

Private Sector? No one needs it. Co ops can produce all....eg refinery in McPherson KS. Government is good job source but not the only other one.

Both Co ops and Government have NO goal of cutting us down to the dollar a day wage. PrSector wants mass poverty on that wage - globally.

Einstein (and some say Jesus) were Socialists.

********************
Honesty and kindness are the two pillars of Socialism.
*********************

Honest-
FULL wage (no "profit" rake-off) and

- kind-

taking care of the OWS..Old, Weak and Sick.

Beyond that the exact forms to use are many.

[socialist_n_TN]

24. I'm a Marxian socialist

That means no profit off of other's labor.

[eridani]

27. A fine idea. Don't see it being implemented any time soon

I'll settle for the usual socialist public goods for now.

[RZM]

13. It's not hard to realize that societies need all that stuff

You don't have to be a socialist or even know what socialism is to recognize that. All of those things have been provided throughout history by governments that were pretty far from socialist. That's what people need to to know.

[raccoon]

18. K&R. And how do we explain to these people what "public goods" means?

Seriously, I don't think they will know what it means.

I bet many right-wingers, conservatives, etc., have never heard the phrase.

If any of you have ever heard a TV news reporter use the phrase, please check in here.

And if you have a simple and uncomplicated explanation of "public goods" please check in here.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

21. This idea has been

explained in the past with the phrase common-wealth or commonwealth............. :bounce:

[eridani]

26. By example. The fact that no one has heard the phrase is precisely our problem

That's why we are having to defend firefighters, postal workers and other public servants now.

[deutsey]

19. Whatever words we use, we need a coherent, two-pronged approach

One: Name what has led to our current crises (unregulated capitalism/neo-con imperialism) and demonstrate clear links to real manifestations in our lives (joblessness, crumbling infrastructure, endless war, erratic climate change, etc.)

Two: Name the alternative vision that can resolve these crises in our lives and draw from past successes (the New Deal, environmental movement, diplomatic coalition building) to demonstrate how this vision isn't a pie-in-the-sky pipe dream.

I don't care what words or phrases we come up with, but we need to start critiquing the right's "meta-narrative" and offer our own as a viable solution.

Right now, it seems too many people in the Democratic Party and the grassroots are fixated on the issue du jour and are missing the fact that ever since the Reagan Reaction the right has been wildly successful in instilling its basic worldview into the minds of way too many people.

[BOG PERSON]

22. whiny childish brats, such as aleksandr solzhenitsyn

[eridani]

25. Great. We need tsarism instead? No thanks.

Not that that justifies repressing him the way the Soviets did.

[Juche]

23. I always ask them about public school, public roads, libraries, police, parks, firefighters, etc

They seem to enjoy having access to those.