"Lexus Lanes" - HOV Toll Lanes

[RamblingRose]

Atlanta is opening HOV toll lanes to its northern suburbs on I-85 beginning next month. No longer will it be required to have more than one person in a car to drive in the HOV lane but rather anyone can use the HOV lane for a fee.

The road project's budget is about $60 million, and $12.5 million of that came from a $110 million grant under the Bush Administration, according to state officials.

<snip>

"The fee for using the lane will rise and fall with congestion in the main lines, aiming to always stay high enough to keep the toll lanes free-flowing. The project is not expected to be self-supporting, but that's not the point. The goal of the project is to offer drivers a choice that exists nowhere in metro Atlanta: the option to step out of rush hour traffic jams into a reliably flowing lane, for a price."

They are planning to add more HOV toll lanes on I-75 & I-575 "using private investment."

I don't see the logic as to how these help with traffic but rather see them as making traffic worse since in order to get to an exit ramp you must change lanes at the designated striped lines, then have to cross 5 lanes of traffic in a relatively short distance. Also, the system has produced a significant number of overhead interstate signs which I think adds to driver distraction, especially if you're from out of town.


Are there other cities that use these HOV toll lanes?


http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-politics-elections/i-85-toll-lane-1181981.html?printArticle=y

[OneGrassRoot]

1. and so it begins....well, escalates. :( n/t

[malaise]

3. It began ages ago

With private airports built with taxpayers' money.

[Ben Gay]

36. Where would one find such an airport? I've never heard of this

at least in the USA...

[Major Nikon]

39. It's federal law that if an airport accepts federal funds, the airport must be public access

[Ben Gay]

41. Yes, that's correct...it's why I asked the question.

:-)

[trotsky]

2. "The project is not expected to be self-supporting"

Then why do it? Just to make sure rich people have better public services than the rest of us, too?

If this is done, it should be raising money for roads in general. I guess I don't really have a problem with the concept, but only if there is a net public benefit. Reduce gas/whatever taxes for the rest of us, and let the rich pay more. They can afford it.

[Selatius]

4. It makes sense if income distribution is very unequal and few can afford it.

Because, the HOV lanes will be free-flowing as long as a relatively few number of people can afford to use them. However, with a more egalitarian income distribution, it can be expected that the HOV lanes will be just as congested as the rest of the lanes.

Ultimately, it's the wrong direction. What the state of Georgia should really consider is the implementation of extensive mass transit to alleviate the need for people to use vehicles to get to and from work. A combination of bus fleets, light rail should work, with perhaps the addition of high-speed rail for commuters traveling to other metropolitan areas being implemented on the national level. If transit is reliable, safe, efficient, and extensive enough, it should help to take many cars off the road. Implemented nationwide, it would help the US reduce usage of gasoline on a yearly basis, reducing our dependence on Mid-East crude oil, which is ultimately a national security issue.

[Tesha]

21. The point, of course, is that it's foolish to have a mostly-empty HOV lane sitting idle.

Any traffic that leaves the general lanes for the HOV
lane improves the situation in the general lanes. And
as long as the load in the HOV lane is throttled (by
pricing) to a manageable level, the HOV lane keeps
moving too.

On the other hand, in modern day America, I can see
how the bottom-feeders will distort this Utopian
concept: "Hello, I'd like to buy 200 options on
HOV futures... Yes, for M-F at 07:30 and 17:30 for
the next fifty weeks..."

Tesha

[OneGrassRoot]

5. Here are more articles/blogs about it:

http://www.google.com/search?client=gmail&rls=gm&q=atlanta%27s%20toll%20lane%20lexus%20lane

I'm reading now.

Thanks again to OP for bringing this to my/our attention.

Edit to add this one is especially interesting, discussing how a "socialist" in the UK has gravitated toward promoting this approach, as have environmentalists, including those here in the US:

http://www.governing.com/topics/transportation-infrastructure/Fast.html

Public opinion seems to have shifted, too. In March, the University of Minnesota released a survey of 1,000 people who drive I-394 frequently. Sixty-four percent thought the toll plan was a good idea. Most tellingly, support is just as strong among people whose household incomes fall below $50,000 as it is among those above $150,000. Minnesota's data tracks with surveys from San Diego, where focus groups show that lower-income drivers use the HOT lanes, too, especially when they're in a pinch. "Even for the less well-off, it's affordable, and probably smart, to use the lanes on days when their value of time is higher," says Ken Buckeye, the program manager for MnDOT. If the choice is between paying $1-per-minute late fees at the day care center or a $4 toll, for example, people of all income levels are likely to pay the toll.

[RamblingRose]

19. Their support has been based on the revenues being used for public transit

Atlanta's in the midst of a huge transportation battle with voters going to the polls next year to vote on the "Atlanta Transportation Investment Act" - a penny sales tax which would be used to fund transportation & road projects around metro Atlanta. The Tea-Partiers have come out strong against it, even challenging the referendum date so as to keep voter turn-out low. Any mention of expanding MARTA or public transit to the burbs pretty much ensures its' defeat. I bet all those Tea-Partiers will be lining up to get their Peach Pass.

[OneGrassRoot]

20. I need to educate myself much more...

After reading a few things, even with "logical" explanations about the positives of this approach, anything that can be referred to as "Lexus Lanes" just feels so very, very wrong. Even if it helps other commuters by unclogging the regular lanes, and helps with pollution control -- and aside from the financials of it -- it just feels like another step toward those with money being able to buy anything and everything. It's like a gated community approach on the highway.

:(

[FSogol]

6. They are adding them here in No. Virginia. n/t

[Mugweed]

7. They plan on that here in Central Florida

They are calling it I-4 Ultimate Lanes (through downtown Orlando). The geotechnical and environmental studies have been going on for almost a decade. FDOT is about to direct money toward construction.

[trumad]

8. What a mess that will be.

I-4 thru Orlando is plain ugly.

[Selatius]

10. Orlando is an urban sprawl nightmare. Its mass transit grid is woefully inadequate.

The only time I liked using the I-4 was late at night because there wasn't rush-hour gridlock on it.

[trumad]

13. They've been kicking ideas around for I-4 for years

Sun Rail will help for sure...

[Locrian]

9. what a joke

this will be a cluster fuck... the "market" will attract the rich - but eventually the owners etc will get greedy and move the price to attract more "customers". Until we're right back at the same congestion, just *everyone* is now paying more for it all.

[Fumesucker]

12. In my view it's probably self limiting really..

Once the HOV gets congested to the point it's not much faster than the rest of traffic people will stop paying extra to use it.

And a good point was made above, sometimes it's worth the trade off even for less well off people to use the HOV lane, like if they're trying to beat dollar-a-minute late charges at the daycare.

[kentauros]

11. Anything that gets Lexiniti drivers off the general roadways

is fine by me }(

[wilt the stilt]

14. My wife and I will be taking a trip to look at moving west

I need to leave this place. I'm asking all fellow Georgians to ask their fellow suburban republicans why should gov't subsidize their commute.

[blueamy66]

16. Well, don't come to AZ...

cause they're kicking this around here as well.

[n2doc]

15. Northern Atlanta suburbs= T-bagger heaven

Hope all those t-baggers in the suburbs enjoy their 'free market solution'.

[KamaAina]

31. Really? I thought it ws Cobb (Newt country) that was like that.

and that north DeKalb and Gwinnett (where 85 goes) were somewhat more diverse.

[jpljr77]

17. It's worse than you think: non-compete clauses prevent NEW roads

From that article:

Deal's concerns about the I-75/I-575 project centered on a clause in the proposed project contract, which would protect the private investors by restricting what other road projects the government could build in the area of the toll road. The project would cost about $1 billion, and private investors would finance and build it, to be paid back by tolls and up to $300 million in tax dollars.

Investors typically demand such clauses, called "noncompete clauses," so that customer demand for the toll lane doesn't plummet as a result of an unexpected road project nearby that eases congestion.

The state would be bound by the contract for 50 years, with a possible 10-year extension.

How insane do you have to be to agree to that? Road project development limitations for decades? That's just irresponsible and stupid, especially in a place with the insane growth of the ATL suburbs.

[kentauros]

23. There is ONE way to compete with that: telecommuting.

This is also probably one of the biggest reasons it's not heavily promoted these days. The last thing both the energy companies and government want is for people to drive less (less fuel profits and less fuel-taxes collected.)

There's really no reason to have office/cubicle jobs in office buildings any more. The technology has existed long enough to facilitate telecommuting and is getting better every day. Need to hold a conference? Why reserve a conference room when you can hold it online, with video of everyone in attendance? We're printing all of our drawings to PDF these days. People still want hard-copies, but we can email them a PDF and they can either print it themselves or send it out to any graphics business if it's for large drawings and such.

None of my job (mapping designer) requires me to come to this office building five times a week that can't be telecommuted. And I really haven't seen anything (other than the filing of physical hard-copies) that requires my co-workers to be here, either.

[jpljr77]

29. I wouldn't go so far.

There's really no reason to have office/cubicle jobs in office buildings any more.

Other than basic human interaction, of course. People still, for some reason, like other people.

[kentauros]

33. You can still do that.

There's Skype, video-conferencing, IM, email, phone. There are plenty of people I would call friends here on DU and I've never seen their face! And I interact with them just fine ;) No, I'm not working with them, but for most of the people I work with I probably do more communication by email than in-person.

The idea that you can't perform your job without in-person human-interaction appears to be the only thing holding back businesses from implementing telecommuting. Otherwise, most of us cube-farm residents would be doing it by now.

[Bake]

18. I just want a hood-mounted rocket launcher.

The reasons should be obvious.

Bake

[RockaFowler]

22. It's already like this in Miami

http://www.95express.com/

[Major Nikon]

24. Soon there will be a coin slot at every stoplight

Then we know we will have arrived to our Libertarian utopia.

[jmowreader]

34. It won't be like that at all...

They'd use EZPass readers on the street lights.

[badtoworse]

35. Sounds like the Garden State Parkway

In fairness, it got better when they cut the number of toll booths. They doubled the toll so you didn't save any money.

[brooklynite]

25. HOT lanes are a way of optimizing traffic...

While you don't want the lane to be as congested as normal traffic lanes, you also don't want it underutilized (setting aside the question of whether roads should be intentionally congsted to push commuters to public transportation -- which doesn't exist in many of these road markets). You can therefore make the lane available to non-carpoolers up to the maximum capacity that still allows free-flow speeds, by dynamically charging differential rates for lane access.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HOT_and_ETL_lanes_in_the_United_States">List of HOT Lanes in the United States

[MilesColtrane]

26. Coming (relatively) soon to Dallas.

13+ miles of I635 and I35E will have variable toll lanes added.

It has recently been redesigned so that it properly reflects things.

The monied will now drive on top in the sunlight and the morlocks will be relegated to driving beneath them.

[Initech]

27. Also coming relatively soon to LA.

[7wo7rees]

28. DFW

"HOV lanes were a stupid idea to begin with, and in practice they have been a disaster," said Coughlin, a real estate broker who lives in downtown Dallas. He said he has never heard an argument in favor of HOV lanes, other than from "the bureaucrats, consultants and blow-up-doll manufacturers who defend it."

Read more: http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/08/14/3290199/hov-lanes-in-dfw-being-converted.html#ixzz1Y8DVsvzx

Huge lobby money from the blow-up doll sector of industry... :eyes:

[KamaAina]

30. They're scattered around the Bay Area

kind of haphazardly.

My favorite is the place where the HOV lane on 101 south has its own flyover exit to 85 east in Mountain View. That must've cost a bundle.

[Angry Dragon]

32. Minneapolis-St,Paul

[cyglet]

40. Yes, we've had them for years n/t

[flvegan]

37. Lexus Lanes sounds like a porn star.

[Shagbark Hickory]

38. Miami. And from what I hear, they work great.

I for one am optimistic to this concept.
You can still ride free if 3 or more passengers or driving a AFV or even a hybrid.