Do you believe Dominique Strauss-Kahn sexually assaulted the maid?

[Stinky The Clown]

I am inspired to ask this question because I just saw a story on the ABC Sunday News that the woman plans to file a suit against Strauss-Kahn for damages. Strauss-Kahn, for his part, says his life is changed, that he intended to run for resident of France, but will no longer consider that.

Impute no specific position for me based on my asking the question. I am asking to see what the general consensus is now that some time has passed.

By the way, I was surprised to see the story reported by Dan Abrams, formerly of MSNBC. When did he leave there? He used to be the General Manager of MSNBC and now he's a legal correspondent for a different network. That doesn't seem like an upward career trajectory.

[Vincardog]

1. I tend to believe the maid

[Honeycombe8]

89. Me, too. I think it's a shame that she did turn out to be not credible...

because of inconsistent statements and her prior lying to gain entry to the country.

But there is the fact that they DID have some sort of sex (DNA evidence, and he admitted to having sex with her), and it doesn't make sense that in the middle of her housekeeping duties (those hotel maids have a LOT to do before they get off work! And they're pretty darn tired & busy!), she'd decide to have sex with that old geiser on the spur of the moment.

His story is that they had consensual sex, not that he offered her money or gifts (something that maybe would entice a poor hotel maid struggling with bills). And since he has at least some history of doing that before (assaulting women he doesn't know, who are in a lower power position than him and in close proximity and alone with him), I believe the maid.

[seabeyond]

91. it isnt even

a matter of mutual satisfaction. all about getting on knees, giving a stranger, an old man a blow job. what was in it for her?

oh goodie, ya lets. rollin eyes

[sabrina 1]

97. You need to read the prosecutor's conclusions and the medical

examiner's. They had no case as she lied about injuries, refused to release her medical records, but the medical examiner found nothing that confirmed the press stories, no sign of assault. Most importantly she lied about when and how the incident happened, giving three different versions of it, she lied to the Grand Jury and then changed her story afterwards.

There was not a shred of evidence that an assault took place. She also lied about many other things, such as her income, how many children she has, her marital status, lied on her immigration papers, lied ABOUT those lies, was coached on how to pretend she was raped, and lied about that also. She also lied about her phone, her bank accounts. And most likely about her age. There is hardly a thing she told the prosecutors, even minor things of little significance, that she did not lie about.

She had deposits going into several accounts in other parts of the country in her name which she claims not to have benefited from.

The woman is a con artist, she will be very lucky if she is not deported or charged with filing a false claim and/or for facilitating drug trafficing. The fact that this case took as long as it did to resolve, also needs to be investigated.

There was no forensic evidence that she was assaulted, the media lied about that also, but then we are talking about Rudolph Murdoch here. And it's a shame that the Tabloid Press can determine the guilt or innocence of a person, no it is scary to know that and should lead to laws forbidding the names of accused in these cases from being published. Many in the prosecutors office, and the NYPD have a lot to answer for with this case.

I hope DSK sues all of them so that we can find out if NYPD Chief, Ray Kelly's best friend, Sarkozy, among others, participated in this set-up. Oh, and she also lied that it was not about money, when on the second day of the case she was hiring civil attorneys and boasting to her boyfriend in jail that there was money to be made. She lied about that also, accusing the prosecution of not properly translating the conversation. She gave the press her own translation, but in the court documents, it appears they had two separate translations which both confirm their initial reports.

Now she also confirms it was about money, by filing a civil suit. In this country where facts do not matter, while she could not fool the criminal system, she may be able to extract money from a jury who, like the people in this thread, got their facts from Rudolph Murdoch's tabloid press. So, it's likely her lawyer, who himself has been cited for ethics violations, her other two lawyers having quit early in the case, is counting on a settlement where he does not have to present a case.

He himself has been warned about his own behavior.

[louslobbs]

114. +1 Sabrina

Lou

[Honeycombe8]

120. You have restated what I stated, only with more details. I gave a summation.

And yes, I believe taht she was assaulted. Of course there would be no evidence of it; she didn't go to the hospital or police after the assault. Much like the assault that Kobe Bryant's victim suffered. I wish that women would learn that they must go immediately to the authorities after being assaulted.

I believe the maid. But I agree that there was no legal case because of her actions and lack of credibility in certain areas.

A person can be both a scumbag AND a victim. It's not only angels who are assaulted.

The incident is very much in keeping with this old geiser's M.O. in other alleged assaults.

[orpupilofnature57]

2. Yes ,a history of predator behavior with his place in World Order ,positively.

An agent of the 400.

[izquierdista]

10. Agent? or victim?

One thing is for sure, we'll never find out if he was ever as socialist as he represented himself.

[Rageneau]

3. How would I know?

Since when is the general public prescient in such matters?

[orpupilofnature57]

7. Common Denominator? How many times was Allen Greenspan accused of rape?

How many crimes have omnipotent wittinesses?

[Stinky The Clown]

13. Dynamic people have opinions on a variety of topics.

On some topics, they may have no opinion. On the question of how you, specifically, would know: who cares. You have an opinion or you don't. I'll put you down for a "no opinion".

Thanks for playing. A home version of the game is on its way.

[Speck Tater]

4. Massive drought and starvation, global climate change, peak oil, election fraud,

violence, intolerance, people left to die because saving them is not profitable enough, and I'm supposed to give a shit if some rich son-of-a-bitch diddled his maid?

It's no fucking wonder the overlords are having such an easy time of blinding the sheeple to what really matters.

[orpupilofnature57]

21. Junk food your right , I cant speak for others but for me ,a way to bash the nwo

[defendandprotect]

56. Fact that a powerful man like this can so easily sexually assault a maid .. is important --

Strauss-Kahn is also very anti-union -- especially re hotel unions!

There have been so many attacks on maids in hotels -- especially in NYC -- that it

almost looks as though they are an effort to make maids frightened of working in hotels.

[Honeycombe8]

90. Ahhh. If it's someone else who's assaulted besides you, then it's just not important. I get it. nt

[tsuki]

5. yes. nt

[Pisces]

6. I believe the maid.

[geek tragedy]

8. I believe the maid, that he imposed himself sexually upon her.

I do not believe that she was so seized with lust at seeing a short, fat 60 year old man in a towel that she volunteered to perform oral acts upon him.

[aikoaiko]

9. I don't know enough to believe either the maid or DSK.

[FrenchieCat]

11. I wasn't there, and speculations can be dangerous,

especially if folks weren't there.

[orpupilofnature57]

18. What did he do immediately ,tried to flee.

[DrunkenBoat]

25. Hmm. I heard he went & had lunch with his daughter.

[Stinky The Clown]

20. What about the story on the very same ABC news edition about the alleged anti woman atmosphere .....

.... in the Obama White House? Anita Dunn is said to be one of the people making the accusation. Someone, it seems, has published a book including these allegations. Mind you, I'm not making the allegations. I am asking you for your opinion on them.

[FrenchieCat]

28. I do not watch ABC/Disney ......

so again, I do not have enough information to make a judgement, and rather than speculating that an accusation is a fact, will have to wait to see what evidence is presented. Thus far I see Two women appointed to the Supreme Court for life, and women high in the administration's cabinet like Susan Rice, Hillary Clinton, Janet Napolitano, Kathleen Sebilius, Hilda L. Solis, and Lisa P. Jackson. As well, I believe that additionally there have been appointments made for (very partial list) Nicole Yvette Lamb-Hale, of Michigan, assistant secretary of Commerce; Marisa Lago, of New York, assistant Treasury secretary; Ellen Gloninger Murray, of Virginia, assistant secretary of Health and Human Services; Mary John Miller, of Maryland, assistant secretary at Treasury; Mary Sally Matiella, of Arizona, assistant secretary of the Army; Cynthia L. Attwood, of Virginia, member of the Occupational Safety and Health Review Commission; Sharon Y. Bowen, of New York, director of the Securities Investor Protection Corporation, and Valerie Jarrett as one of his closest advisers, many others.....

In addition I note that of the 98 Obama judge nominees confirmed to date, 47% were women....which beats Clinton who had a 29% confirmation record on female judges. Of the total he has nominated (but not confirmed), the ratio is 58% women.

In addition, making Birth Control Free to women by insurance providers, establishing a Council for Women and Girls via an executive order, and the fact that NO Women's groups have had any comments on what one person said.....

I don't know if that is evidence in your book, weighted up against one person's opinion. :shrug:

Sometimes actions speak louder than words, something I always hear here at DU!

[Stinky The Clown]

29. It isn't "my book"

I am tweaking your nose.

The women denied the quotes attributed to them.

[FrenchieCat]

34. That's what I understood as well......

Tweaking back! ;)

[Nye Bevan]

36. Did you believe Anita Hill?

You weren't there, either.

[Warren Stupidity]

54. bad choice, really bad choice there

did Ms. Hill repeatedly change her testimony? Did she lie about a prior incident of sexual misconduct? Did you want to pick a different case perhaps?

[Nye Bevan]

62. Well, she *did* follow Clarence Thomas from job to job.

And Clarence Thomas did not have the "rutting chimpanzee" reputation of DSK, with women everywhere coming out of the woodwork to state that he had behaved similarly towards them.

So there were problems with both sets of allegations. But I can see why people believed Anita Hill notwithstanding this, and I can also see why people tend to believe DSK's accuser.

[CTyankee]

47. Her gyn exam immediately following the attack showed bruises on her vulva .

DSK has a history of "rough sex" and sexual intimidation against women. She was a maid, he was a powerful, rich man.

I cannot draw any other conclusion than that he treated her brutally.

[Warren Stupidity]

57. there was no evidence of a sexual assault

see the report from the DA archived here, page 20
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/08/22/nyregion/dsk-recommendation-to-dismiss-case.html?nl=nyregion&emc=ura1

I'm sorry you were repeatedly lied to by the media.

[CTyankee]

67. Yes, I did hear of the "bruise" that was reported. Now that seems not to be the case.

So we are left with her "redness" which could be from sex. I suppose we have to wonder what exactly went on in the hotel room.

What do you think?

[Warren Stupidity]

68. I have no idea 'what really happened' I am pretty sure an assault is not what occurred

and I am certain that the alleged victim is a liar. My guess is consensual sex for money.

[CTyankee]

71. why did she go to the police if she got money for having sex?

And why didn't he tell the investigators that he paid her for sex in his own defense against rape charges?

[Warren Stupidity]

80. Don't know and don't care.

[CTyankee]

84. Well, you did say you thought it was consensual sex for money and I was

wondering if you had considered factors that would contradict your judgment here. I'm not trying to be difficult but to me, if you have a general theory about what happened you might want to examine its logic.

[Warren Stupidity]

87. You asked my opinion and now you are cross examining me

demanding evidence. Sorry, ain't gonna play that game. I am certain that Diallo is a liar and a grifter, and I base that on the evidence included in the DA report. As there is no evidence at all of a sexual assault I've leapt to astounding conclusion that the sex was consensual. Given that, I'm guessing that prostitution was involved, but mostly I don't care. This was a consensual act between two adults. It is only my business to the extent that the state got involved and wrecked somebody's life. I care about that.

[CTyankee]

88. geez, I was really only trying to get to your reasoning here as mine is different.

I'm sorry. I think I upset you and that wasn't my intent.

[elleng]

12. Yes

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. Yes

[seabeyond]

15. yes. he also said he in no way attack reporter in france

he now says, ya he tried to kiss her but stopped when she said no. she is pressing charges, i think

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2038358/Dominique-Strauss-Kahn-I-tried-kiss-Tristane-Banon-rape-her.html

[JI7]

43. what a disgusting asshole

[seabeyond]

44. i think so, also.

[CTyankee]

48. I love that photo. Looks like Obama had some advanced information

on DSK before this event. That body language said to me "keep your grubby hands to yourself!" And the look on DSK's face! He's got his eyes squarely on Michelle...

[seabeyond]

50. and classy michelle.... wtf? with a smile. i agree.

same with italian pres. wtf is it with these assholes and michelle.

[Major Hogwash]

117. What a letch!!

I never saw that picture before.
Jesus, he looks like he is going to grab her!

[seabeyond]

119. creepy. a grown man. a grown man that was gonna run for pres

wtf???? i hear ya

[RebelOne]

16. I am on the maid's side, but will a jury believe her if it goes to trial? n/t

[hack89]

17. No. nt

[Curmudgeoness]

19. I believe the maid. I have a hard time with it because

they say that her story keeps changing, but I am too jaded. I don't believe what they say either. The story is that "something" happened now, from his own mouth, so it is probably true.

[MrSlayer]

22. Not having been there, I can't really say.

He has a reputation as a cad and she has a reputation as a liar. Who can say for sure what happened? Only they.

[DrunkenBoat]

23. Not as the original story had it, no.

[Shandris]

24. I think Strauss-Kahn was likely innocent of the CRIMINAL charge.

I base this on the statements that the woman made to her boyfriend, attempting to hide the conversation, and the various stacks of lies she told. Also, it is unlikely (though certainly not impossible) that someone as well-known as a womanizer as Strauss-Kahn would NEED to resort to such tactics. I think there was a conspiracy by the maid to extort Strauss-Kahn for money, based on her knowing that his reputation would lead many people to believe her instead of him, and that he would be severely damaged by the allegations if they came to light. I think Strauss-Kahn refused to play ball with the extortion.

[JI7]

26. yes, i think he sexually assaulted her

[A-Schwarzenegger]

27. Yes.

[dsc]

30. I figure two about equally likely scenarios

One he paid her for sex or two he forced himself on her. Can't be sure which one is true because they both are liars.

[Raine]

31. I believe the maid

I've done that kind of work myself and I know how a person doing that kind of work can be taken advantage of in many ways.

[Myrina]

32. No. How coincidental that the othe person running against Sarkozy

.... just got hit with a similar scandal? Sounds too much like Rovian character assassination techniques to me.

[Prometheus Bound]

33. Yes, the IMF head assaulted the maid (and lied in his initial encounter with police).

saying he had diplomatic immunity

[Nye Bevan]

35. I think he lived up to his "rutting chimpanzee" reputation. (nt)

[Recovered Repug]

37. I guess the short answer is: No.

I don't believe either the maid or DSK are telling the whole truth. If I had to guess, I'd say it was a "business deal" that turned bad.

[lib2DaBone]

38. Nah... he didn't assault her... the IMF wanted him OUT.....he was too "Liberal"

.. and most of all.. the IMF wanted him out of French Politics.

The IMF could NOT have a leader that was for working people or in any way progressive...

Even if he was innocent or guilty.. the damage is the same. Kind of reminds me of the way they 'Swift Boated' Kerry way back when.

If the PTB (powers that be) want you gone... you are GONE.

[Odin2005]

52. Just because you call yourself a Socialist does not make you a Left-Winger.

Do you think the PTB would ever let a REAL socialist be in charge? DSK is the European equivalent of the DLC DINOs here.

[butterfly77]

39. Yes,he just about admitted it on CNN...

this evening on he said he had bad judgment,he did it.

[bbinacan]

40. Nope. n/t

[sabrina 1]

41. The answer is in the court documents. There is not a shred of evidence

that she was assaulted. No forensic evidence, which was falsely reported in the Murdoch media eg. In fact, inexplicably she lied about 'injuries' and then refused to release her medical records to the prosecutors. The medical examiner found no evidence as claimed, of an assault.

The timeline also as presented by the prosecutors, left barely any time for such an assault to take place. That was obvious to anyone paying attention from the beginning, however the court documents showed that she lied profusely regarding the event itself.

There was no case from the start. A fact that was recognized by the expert on Sex Crime in the prosecutor's office who wanted them to look more closely at the woman. She was not put on the case, which made no sense, and resigned, supposedly for an unrelated matter.

It is a disgrace that the prosecutors did not release all the exculpatory evidence as soon as it was available but instead allowed the smears and rumors to fester UNTIL critical political dates had passed. One, the installation of Christine Lagarde as IMF chief, and two, the date to file for the French Presidential primaries.

He may be a scumbag where women are concerned, but to continue to make any claim that there was an assault now in view of the court documents, the various investigation results, is just plain wrong.

She may be suing him, and in fact that too is in his favor, and was a shock to the prosecutors, as she is once again, proving that it is about money. He may settle, as Clinton did and many do, or he may counter sue her. But to a fair jury she will lose this case also.

Fair jury, that is the problem he would have here in the US where the only coverage of the case was tabloid in nature and contained practically no facts as can be seen now from the court report. It was trial by media with zero respect for facts. So a fair jury is, sadly, unlikely.

Our judicial system is a disgrace. Looking at the comments on forums like this you can see why there ought to be a law that forbids releasing the names of those accused until there has been a trial. And, media lies should be actionable.

The reporting on this case was probably some of the worst I have ever seen. I'm trying to think of one thing that was reported that was actually a fact, and I cannot.

He is as likely to have assaulted that woman, now that we actually do have the facts, as anyone posting in this thread. But think how easy it would be to make false accusations against anyone, and you know for sure, that most would believe them, simply because they were made. Few people seek the truth, they simply seem to react based on their own personal grievances.

This is why sexual assault accusations have become the preferred weapons (can't keep murdering people after all) to 'take out' political opponents. Especially if the person has a reputation like DSK's or Clinton's.

Powerful people wanted him removed and when you read his opinions on current world events, it's easy to see why. Too bad though, because he was right and the current global financial situation only got worse when he was replaced with Christine Lagarde, good friend of Timmy Geithner who, oddly, inserted himself into all of this when he called for DSK to resign.

[dkf]

46. This is a lot more info than I have heard on the subject.

Sounds like you have a case.

[Warren Stupidity]

59. here is the link to the report

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/08/22/nyregion/dsk-recommendation-to-dismiss-case.html?nl=nyregion&emc=ura1

see page 20 re the medical evidence.

[Maccagirl]

42. I don't know the truth in this case

anymore than any other he said/she said (cue Juanita Broadrick vs Bill Clinton). There is a truth, of course, I just don't know if we'll ever get to it.

[lunatica]

45. I won't jump to conclusions based on heresay

[HappyMe]

49. I don't know what to think.

They are both liars. :shrug:

[no_hypocrisy]

60. + 1 I agree.

Both parties had motivation to either lie or not be totally forthcoming about what really happened.

[AngryOldDem]

110. +2.

[Odin2005]

51. Yes I do. He is a rapist and is getting away with it because he is an Elite.

[WinkyDink]

53. IN HIS OWN WORDS: "A moral failing.....an inappropriate relationship...." ---->

He said his May 14 sexual encounter with Nafissatou Diallo, an African immigrant who claimed that he attacked her when she entered his room in Manhattan's Sofitel hotel to clean it, "did not involve violence, constraint or aggression."

Still, he acknowledged, it "was a moral failing and I am not proud of it. I regret it infinitely. I have regretted it everyday for the past four months and I think I'm not done regretting it."

It "was not only an inappropriate relationship, but more than that, it was a failing ... a failing vis-a-vis my wife, my children and my friends but also a failing vis-a-vis the French people, who had vested their hopes for change in me."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/09/18/ap/business/main20107876.shtml
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

AKA, HE DID IT AND HE IS STILL LYING.

[EOTE]

94. I'm not seeing how you got that leap in logic.

So because he admits to having sex with her, that means that he assaulted her and is lying? He admitted having a sexual encounter with her very early on. How does reasserting that mean that he assaulted her?

[WinkyDink]

113. because he normally admits to nothing. Because he called a meeting with a maid a "relationship." WT

[defendandprotect]

55. Believe the maid -- and the journalist/"goddaughter" -- and reports of others ...

re this "rutting pig" -- !!!


Yuck!!

[blueamy66]

58. The maid couldn't kick his ass?

I could have.

The guy is older than dirt. I would have beat his ass and got the hell outta there.

Don't believe her for one second.....

[Nye Bevan]

64. Accidentally stepping between a mother bear and her cubs is *nothing*

compared to accidentally stepping between the Rutting Chimpanzee and a woman. Any woman.

[msanthrope]

85. You are exactly the juror I want for rape trials.

Women who ask your question, and mirror your additional statements, tend to blame the victim for her rape. Through the creation of a "here's what I would do, why didn't she do that" standard, the rape victim is inevitably held to account for why she didn't perform during her rape in a manner prescribed by a person who obviously has no clinical or legal experience with rape.

Of course, this standard inevitably benefits the defendant, the rapist.

[blueamy66]

98. Oh please.

The guy is older than dirt.

I can hold my weight with my guy, who is only not nearly as old as this dipshit and in much better shape.

I'm not blaming her for anything....I just think she's a liar.

And I have had experience with rape.

But you know everything about me....so go on yapping.

[msanthrope]

107. He's 62. You think that's "older than dirt?" That he can't rape?

Women learn to uphold the patriarchy in all sorts of ways.

[blueamy66]

115. Um, yeah....62 is pretty damn old

I'd kick his ass twice.

She's a liar. And a fraud.

[slackmaster]

61. I don't have enough information. I wasn't there, and their stories don't seem reconcilable.

:shrug:

[Nye Bevan]

63. I believe Anita Hill, even though I wasn't there, and it was a little strange

how she followed Clarence Thomas from job to job.

Do you?

[slackmaster]

66. Honestly, I had never given that even a moment of thought

I just don't care.

[hedgehog]

65. Yes - and the worst part is I think he honestly doesn't realize it!

[samsingh]

69. no

[Liberal_in_LA]

70. yes, unfortunately she had 'baggage'. No justice for rape victims with baggage unfortunately

:-(

[ecstatic]

72. yes. nt

[Dreamer Tatum]

73. He's French, which invalidates our primitive notions of rape.

When you're as sophisticated as a Frenchman, you go where your guts take you. The world needs to abide by that.

:sarcasm:

[WinkyDink]

77. I don't think he was led by his "guts."

[seabeyond]

78. this is what i found really interesting with this whole debacle.

so often on du i have been lectured about Europe's evolved perspective on sex. what i learned from all this is really it is hugely a patriarchal culture of sexism and greater and women keep their damn mouths shut and take the abuse.

it lets me see the argument totally different today.

[Auntie Bush]

74. I personally thinks he's definitely guilty of sexually harassing the maid and many other women too.

[nomb]

75. The responses now are a world apart from when the case first broke.....

[Stinky The Clown]

81. You noticed that, too, huh?

[NaturalHigh]

76. No, I thought it was a blackmail scheme.

[LWolf]

79. I don't know.

Belief is for things you can't prove, but we don't always have to pick a side.

[deaniac21]

82. I believe the maid but I didn't know you had to run to be resident

in France.

[Blasphemer]

83. Yes, I believe the maid

The other theories don't quite make sense to me. I don't believe she personally researched him and his background and set out to blackmail him and I don't believe she was paid or otherwise coerced into doing it. If he was a person without a history of such behavior, I might be more skeptical but given his history, her story is completely believable.

[Bonobo]

86. Do you think it is that easy to ...

force oral copulation onto someone to the point that you orgasm? At that age?

I may have the details wrong, because I am not that into reading more about it, but that was the gist of it, wasn't it?

[EOTE]

95. I'd say that little bit is nearly impossible.

And that's not even the most ridiculous part of her story. She's proven to have lied on numerous occasions. She spoke with her boyfriend about how to make the most money out of the situation. I believe her about as far as I could throw her.

[seabeyond]

96. you would be wrong. a threat of violence takes a rapist a long way. really sad

when a lack of perception allows the blame to be shifted to an abused person cause you cannot imagine intimidation going a long way.

when a woman is concerned about getting out alive, there is a lot that she will allow.

this would not be the first time a forced bj was had.

these two posts probably bother me the most.

[EOTE]

101. When a woman goes through a horrific, violent situation...

her first thought isn't usually how can she manipulate the situation in order to make the most money possible out of it. And she usually doesn't pile up lie after lie so much that even her own prosecution can't trust her worth a damn. If she really was threatened so, she wouldn't have had to lie her ass off afterward. As for the rest of your post, I'm having a very hard time deciphering the remainder. What should bother you is that this woman made it a hell of a lot more difficult for real victims of rape to be believed.

[seabeyond]

102. seeing that my post was nothing about what you brought up. i addressed how can a woman be FORCED

to give a bj.

she must be lying

but wtf.... dont address that ignorant shit.

and i do mean down right, bottom line, dumbshit, ignorant thinking.

[EOTE]

104. And you didn't address a single thing I brought up.

If there were ever an expert on ignorant shit. I'll defer to your sound judgement.

I was referring to how it would be impossible for the PERPETRATOR to finish the act. And she WAS lying. She lied many, many times. Christ, even the prosecution admitted that she lied like crazy, they wouldn't touch her she was so toxic. But hey, I guess people should be able to lie their asses off regarding their alleged attacker and we're still supposed to take them seriously.

What a joke.

[seabeyond]

105. again.... men have been known to force bj on victims and be able to finish the act

they get off on the violence and control as it is.

[EOTE]

106. And your proof for this assertion is what?

And again?!? Weren't you just saying you were referring to the alleged victim initially? And in how many of those incidences of rape did the alleged victim lie her ass off afterward? Apologies in advance for not taking the word of such an astute observer.

[seabeyond]

108. your assertion is that a man cannot force a bj and get off. that is what i am arguing with you

as you continue to ignore.

that is the only thing i am arguing in this pretty little subthread that says it is not possible a man can force a bj and to completion at that.

[EOTE]

109. Ummm, I can't prove a negative.

I would have thought that even you would have known something like that. You can, however, prove a positive. Something you haven't even attempted to do.

[hifiguy]

92. I can only come to a provisional conclusion based

on the evidence that has been released to the public and the fact that the prosecutors dropped it like a hot brick with the concurrence of the accuser's attorney. And that provisional conclusion is that there was no criminal conduct.

[fifthoffive]

93. Who knows

I tend to think he did because of his history (seems to have been other complaints about his behavior) and because there seems to be an element in him of an old European male attitude that I thought was gone, or at least on its way out. Such men cannot fathom that their attentions are ever unwanted.

The French have been lauded for their open attitude toward sexuality; how men have mistresses and it's all okey-dokey with their wives. Somehow I have missed hearing how the reverse is okey-dokey with the husbands. It has always seemed to me to be rather a one-way street in that regard.

[Whisp]

99. have no idea. just a bit suspicious tho of the timing. nt

[Romulox]

100. Lie about rape once...

:shrug:

[tammywammy]

103. +1

Also, I read the DA's report.

[CBGLuthier]

111. Why and exactly how does OUR beliefs influence reality?

My opinion is that i was not there and I do not have superpowers so how do i know the truth.

[Scout]

112. i believe the woman n/t

[Major Hogwash]

116. Dan Abrams is guilty.

As for that guy with the maid, yeah, he's guiltier than sin, too.

[Iggo]

118. I have no idea.

It's way too serious for me to just guess, and I'm not gonna pick sides like it's a goddam football game.

Either he assualted her, or she lied about him assaulting her. Both of those are disgusting.

[Safetykitten]

121. Abso-freaking-lutely.