Americans are pissed off. It's time we help them be pissed off at the right people

[kpete]

Sunday, September 18, 2011
Another Milepost On The Road To Oblivion
Posted by Zandar

Surprise! Paul Ryan and the rest of the Republicans are immediately playing the "class warfare" card with the Buffett Rule proposal.
http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/09/paul-ryan-accuses-of-obama-of-class-warfare-over-millionaire-tax/
...........................

Of course, Paul Ryan's lying. That's what he does. When Bill Clinton raised the top marginal tax rate to 39.6%, not only did it work, it gave America a surplus. Republicans have been screaming about balancing the budget...well, whenever there's a Dem in the White House, that is. When Republicans are President, deficits don't matter, remember?
http://zandarvts.blogspot.com/2011/09/nameless-one-has-no-soul.html

We can't raise taxes on the wealthy in good times. We can't do it in bad times. We can't do it, period. And yet Republicans suffer no political damage for siding with the top 1% over the 99%. Hell, the Buffett Rule would affect less than 1% of Americans who pay a far lower tax rate than you or I do. But that's who the Republicans get to play for, and they're the people with all the power in this country.

Nice, isn't it? Steve M. expands on the theory:

With all the pressure there is on political figures to avoid what's always sneeringly called "class warfare," the fact that the president -- the fact that this president -- is increasingly acknowledging the vast difference between the rich and the rest of us is a hopeful sign. I know this proposal can't get passed. I know it's mostly an attempt to draw a line in the sand as his reelection campaign gets under way. But I like the fact that he thinks this is a political winner. I like the fact that it puts a question back on the table that the right and center thought had been asked and answered: no, perhaps we Americans haven't all decided that we really, really like the rich and regard them as heroes and "job creators" and people who need to be cosseted and coddled because if we don't cater to their every whim they'll be too weak and wounded and sickly and depressed ever to get out of bed and try to make even more money by building businesses and hiring people to do jobs.
http://nomoremister.blogspot.com/2011/09/this-exists-class-consciousness-in.html

Americans are pissed off. It's time we help them be pissed off at the right people, and Obama contrasting with Paul Ryan whining that our poor, coddled millionaires are the only people the Republicans care about is a real good start.

http://zandarvts.blogspot.com/2011/09/another-milepost-on-road-to-oblivion_18.html

[Skittles]

1. I'm pissed of at repukes

AND I am pissed off at Obama for not fighting them hard enough

[Jackpine Radical]

2. Yes, all of that, but

This is at least a flourish in the right direction. I'm willing to give him one or two cheers over this, just to make it clear which way he has to go in order to get some enthusiasm going in the nation at large.

[Skittles]

3. it's because he is in a desperate situation

there's no way those damn tax cuts should have been extended - made him look weak beyond belief

[patrice]

6. Pelosi had a part in that. Obama should have had a strategy session & demanded at least a fight

Even though they'd lose, we'd still be ahead on getting the issue out there and on deficit reduction.

[Skittles]

12. yeah, it is always someone else's fault

[patrice]

13. I didn't say that. I mentioned Obama's role & I go into more detail about the entire environment

downthread.

Pretending that things are simpler than they are will do us no good.

[SammyWinstonJack]

24. Gets Obama off the hook, doesn't it? With some anyway.

:shrug:

[Jackpine Radical]

7. I'm absolutely on board with you in that reading of history.

His best chance of winning at this point--his way out of the desperate situation--is to push for at least the end of the Bush cuts on the rich, if not raises in addition to that. If he does this, even if he doesn't succeed in these goals due to Republican obstructionism, he will end up electrifying the American people with enthusiasm to throw out the Republicans and their pathetic, ineffective, mean-spirited policies.

Now, do I expect this to happen? Maybe not, but the only way I have of exercising my minuscule powers on the political scene is to cheer when I see even a symbolic move in the right direction and signal my displeasure when I see moves in the wrong direction. It's sorta like shaping animal behavior in a Skinner box.

[Raine]

4. Obama should've let them expire in the first place nt

[Amonester]

5. Yeah, but, what about the 99ners on UI the teaRoari$t$ were holding

HOSTAGE

they don't count?

[Jackpine Radical]

8. Of course they count, but the R's would have surely backed down

on that one. Their position was truly untenable if they hoped to elect anyone in 2010. Obama's deal resulted in a small temporary gain at the expense of a large, long-enduring (and possibly permanent) loss.

[Amonester]

10. See my reply (at the wrong place) below.

:scared:

[Amonester]

9. BTW, my younger sister (57) in Tampa is one of their hostages.

She's desperately seaching for a job to continue to pay her mortgage (she's also underwater...), and take care of her son (he has uninsured health issues) and her grand-daughter of 7.

Thanks for your support.

[kentuck]

17. But then...

He would have had to fight for the unemployment benefits. Which he should have welcomed.

[YvonneCa]

19. Maybe this could help...

... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqi5n8d4s3A&feature=player_embedded

[patrice]

11. The 1% were being coddled because of the weakness in our financial sector. Losses in the

Derivative Crash were/are on the table in some extremely private INTERNATIONAL board rooms. The principles could do this, they could do that, or they could do the other thing. All of it affecting us, American EQUITY, and our jobs to one degree or the other. Well, that train has apparently finally left the station, with whatever that group that meets in Basel, Switzerland has decided about debt to equity ratios in international finances. I saw where some of the American leaders in that group were considering leaving that particular table. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't, but one thing for damn sure is that we'll NEVER know the half-of-it. And THAT has been Obama's problem from the first.

Yes, there have been BIG mistakes: the Stimulus was waaaaay too small & the Bush Tax Cuts should have sunsetted, but if we're going to assess blame effectively, if we're going to critique in a way that BENEFITS US (and neither/none of the factions that did this to us) we MUST include the whole environment in which those mistakes were made. Those aren't excuses for Obama, just the truth about exactly what we are up against here.

[bertman]

20. I agree with what you've posted to a degree, Patrice. HOWEVER, when you select the

ringleaders from the Wall Street deregulation arm of the Democratic party to be the people who are going to solve the problems created by Wall Street deregulation, you lose credibility.

There were plenty of financial experts who were available for Obama's inner circle but he made the choices. Or he accepted them. Either way, he does not get a pass from me.

External pressures are one thing. Colluding with the folks who wrecked the economy is another.

[patrice]

23. Agreed. and that IS his fault, because he was expecting something he didn't get & there was,

apparently, no plan B, C, or D (or at least none that we were ever apprised of) for what to do about that in circumstances that are worse than most of us thought they'd be, including some of those feeding at tables of a lower order than those in Switzerland . . . as Solyndra seems to rather clearly suggest.

[eppur_se_muova]

14. It's "Class Self Defense", in response to Class Warfare. nt

[DCKit]

15. I watched the Republicon response to the President's address yesterday.

It was some (R) congresscritter from IL (I think), and the whole thing was a string of lies strung together with false talking points and repugnant propaganda.

You have to give them credit, though. They're far more cohesive and on-message than our herd of cats could ever be.

[NNN0LHI]

16. I sure am pissed off at the people who allowed this to happen alright

Reagan electoral map 1984

[FiveGoodMen]

26. That was a lousy time to be an American, but a fine time to be a Minnesotan!

Of course, things in my state have gone way downhill since then!

[BanTheGOP]

18. To hell with the neo-Fascist Buffet Rule...

...what we REALLY need is a comprehensive, top-to-bottom restructuring of not just the tax code, but an all-encompassing regulation of what should not just be about taxes, but wealth AS A WHOLE. Obviously, most progressives agree with the Maximum Wage rule. But I would go further and repatriate ALL monies over a certain amount. NOBODY needs over a set amount, say, ten million dollars. Not only should we tex income 100%; if someone has more than 10 million made or stolen in a previous year, that amount should be reclaimed. In addition, any amount over 1 million dollars should be reclaimed at a high percentage rate. Finally, the entire concept of how money is used in the country should be regulated so that every transaction between all parties is transparent and lawfully regulated so we can see, and judge, people by their abusive lifestyles.

If we do that, we would eliminate republicanism in short order.

[cali]

21. uh, you have some evidence that most progressives agree with some

Maximum Wage rule? I'm a progressive and I do not. Nor do I want the government "repatriating" money from people- unless they've swindled it out of others.

I find your post just more totalitarian garbage.

[BanTheGOP]

28. You CAN'T be progressive and be for capitalism at the same time!!

I don't understand your post. If one has too much money, no matter how they got it, the wealth gap still exists. To eliminate said gap, we have to politically and legally repatriate the money to the general welfare of the common people, to be decided through democratic, fair processes on how to spend the money. This is NOT rocket science. Frankly, I find it absolutely shameful to have ANYONE posess tens of millions of dollars while the vast majority of poeple are lower middle class or (increasingly) worse.

And if that's "totalitarian", screw it. I'm not budging, and most people here on DU agree with me... ONE HUNDRED PERCENT. If YOU don't agree with it, that makes you far closer to Reaganist/Nazism than progressivism. Pure and simple.

[certainot]

22. limbaugh is their leader and averages 10 offices/radio stations per state

some of them may be great places to picket. and their local sponsors need to be shamed, and so do the universities and pro sports teams that use those stations.

no one has done more to sell the republican alternate reality than team limbaugh.

[Initech]

25. Which is why I think taking back the media is the only way to take back our country.

[WingDinger]

27. You had better be ready to put up your dukes. Words are fluff.

[davidwparker]

29. Amen. Amen. Amen.

[w0nderer]

30. k&r n/t

[tavalon]

31. Agreed

One of the reasons I don't spend much time here anymore is because I don't believe the meme that it's the Democrats against the Republicans. They are all Corporaticans and just pretending to be at war. We are in a class war and the top two percent is winning.

[stockholmer]

38. +100000

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

32. I hope that while we're busy educating the American people, we would include the majority of DU

I see a lot of fingers pointing at Democrats FIRST, not Republicans! That's where the blame lies. It's time that we unite behind this and stop blaming Democrats FIRST!!

Come on, DU. We can do better than this! We are Democrats. We MUST unite!!!!

[BumRushDaShow]

33. +infinity

[TheKentuckian]

37. There is no benefit to blaming the TeaPubliKlans while accepting or even encouraging

the exact same policies from those on our side of the partisan fence.

The most fundamental thing that some you tend to agree with need to grasp is "bipartisanship" is a scam, a lie, and wholly stupid. There is deep message conflict within your own frame when you acknowledge the source of the problems is with the opposition but you press a brand of politics that not only coddles them but actually promotes their policies and world view.

You scream about the corporate media but cannot stop posting their polls.

You say the Republicans are the source of evil but refuse to call them such and join them in attacking their actual opposites-liberals.

Yes, you fix your own house first that is where your influence is greatest. Yes, you first remove the mote from your own eye before you can remove the beam from your neighbor's vision.

Unity in action comes from unity in goals and then becomes strong as respect and and some form of love grows. I will say that I don't believe there is a binding vision nor common goals but rather a mess of people who don't like Republicans for a bunch of different reasons but with very different expectations of our own party, policies, worldview, and outcomes sought for.

Fixing the world without first putting our own house in order is impossible and is a point of view that seems built on the belief that until there is no opposing view point our folks have no choice but to placate it and assimilate it.

I tend to believe that many largely agree with the opposition but either aren't welcome among them for racial or sexual orientation or because they believe in gender equity.

The economics and foreign policy which is the real driving forces behind conservative ideology is where everything breaks down.

[DeSwiss]

34. K&R

'http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/35764734">Video Excerpts' (2007)

"Folks seldom talk politics or current events except during the final weeks before an election and when prompted by lefty agitators like me, or grassroots neocon Republican operatives -- people who understand that the four cornerstones of the American political psyche are (1) emotion substituted for thought, (2) fear, (3) ignorance, (4) propaganda.

Why had the working class so plainly voted against their own interest? And will they do so again?

I am standing in the checkout line at the Food Lion. The lady in front is telling the clerk how her church rallied to buy her and Eddie a secondhand truck after theirs was repossessed: "It only needs a front tire and new brakes." "Praises be to Him!" exclaims the clerk, as if God had come down to personally deliver the 1990 Toyota himself. Obviously they are all born-again. The wife grabs up her purchases, a sixer of Diet Pepsi, a carton of Little Debbie Cakes, and moves on to the door."

Behind me are four or five other customers who could be their doubles, overweight, cheap clothing, looking as though they'd been shot at and missed, and shit at and hit, each of them with his or her own assortment of money, health and legal problems. The fact is, liberals and working people need each other to survive the growing economic calamity delivered to us by the regime that promised to "run this country like a business." The left must come face-to-face with Americans who do not necessarily share all of their priorities especially with Americans who have not been voting."

So I sit here watching fat Pootie in a T-shirt that reads: ONE MILLION BATTERED WOMEN IN THIS COUNTRY AND I'VE BEEN EATING MINE PLAIN! That this is not considered especially offensive says all you need to know about cultural and gender sensitivity around here. And the fact that Pootie votes, owns guns and is allowed to purchase hard liquor is something we should all probably be afraid to contemplate.

The Nazis gave the German people the Jews to hate. The Republicans have given the American people the gays and Muslims to hate."

http://www.joebageant.com/">~Joe Bageant

[lunasun]

39. Yep..OP sez"It's time we help them be pissed off at the right people">Well Good Luck with that!!!!

Can progressives out shout Fox and most of M$M along with all the other cheerleaders like above to people like this???
And most people do not want to hear it = they have their own mind and ideas already...get real what- percentage of US citizens believe in evolution?
And you want them to understand what about current politics including subjects like gays and Muslims???

Oh and don't forget they hate the Mexicans that their American businesses 'friends ' hire instead of them because they come here desperate and will work for less so then the business owners can keep more $$$ for themselves by paying less with no benies, instead of giving a decent wage for an American worker. But these people won't hate the employers no they hate the people being exploited!!!
And the Chinese who 'took their jobs away' but not the politicians who created the trade market rules or American companies who threw them under the bus and packed up business and moved overseas.
Nope, don't hate them - hate the Chinese......

Better lecture with some flashy sex stuff and special FX explosions just to get them to look your way , let alone ever listen..
Just my jaded opinion.

For instance some one just last month I know through business told me that she thinks "maybe" I was right about Bush and that she should not have voted to reelect him and now wonders if the Iraq war was a mistake.....yep last month it dawned on her!!! I am sure she voted for Mccain in 08

Please: these multitudes are slow to come around , if ever, and always too late.

Wish it was not true but around here it seems that way and I live in a blue state in a suburb outside a large democratic run city
Plenty of liberals/ neutrals around, but plenty like the folks you mention above too

Just like they could not convert me
I doubt they are gonna see a different light either
and no food nazi is gonna make them drop the Little Debbie cakes either even if it is good for their health after all thats what science gave us pills for - right?

[DeSwiss]

40. Luck will have nothing to do with it if it gets done at all.

As Martin Luther King Jr. said of poor whites, http://www.rbgtube.com/play.php?vid=3888">"we should all be marching together."

As for your other points (as good, or at least pointed at they are), I understand it won't be easy for anyone. But I also have first-hand experience with extreme prejudice and I have the scars to prove it. So you don't have to convince me what it's like to be hated by others for being born the "wrong" color. And yet I still know that if we are to succeed as a nation at all, then we will never do it by ourselves -- and as long as we allow for those who oppress us all to continue to drive a wedge between us, then we are doomed to fail. And always will.

As I said above, it won't be easy. In fact if it were, I'm sure we'd have done it already and this convo would never have taken place. But overcoming in-bred prejudice requires for a person to reach deep inside of themselves and then taking responsibility for what they find there. For their own thoughts and actions. That includes EVERYONE. But as most of us know today, no one likes to take responsibility -- for anything. It's always the other guy's fault, or it was the deprivations one experienced growing up, or it's the chemicals in the water. Never my fault. Never my responsibility. Whatever.

Look, here's the deal: No matter how sophisticated and well-though out the political arguments may be, no matter how sound the ideas and facts are -- if we don't include everyone into the mix of the decision-making process, then it won't get done. It'll always be piecemeal and ineffective, which serves the TPTB just fine. We're easier to control and pick-off when we're fighting amongst ourselves. They'll simply throw a piece of meat out in the ring like they've always done, and then stand back and watch everyone else fight over it. Just like we're doing right now.

- And it'll take more than mere words to get 'er done......

If you spend your days at a soul-numbing repetitious job with a brain simmering in anti-depressants, a belly stuffed with high fat, supercarb comfort food, and evenings half drunk or recovering on the couch from work . . . well . . . when the heck are you supposed to find time or mind to grasp the implications of global warming even as you contemplate being one payday ahead of homelessness? A while back I watched this bar full of people stare at a game of Afghani dead goat polo in silent, rapt attention. If that isn't brain dead I don't know what is.

The relentless autocratic, blue collar American workplace has ground my people down, smashed 'em right into the couch. There they are force-fed the huckster's hologram of "personal freedom" in advertisements for off road vehicles. Getting a lousy public education, then being played against your fellow workers in Darwinian fashion by the free market economy does not make for optimism or open mindedness. It makes for a kind of bleak meanness nobody is openly talking about in the American political dialogue today.

I seem to remember a time when we weren't so mean, back when most people in Burt's believed in the American dream. A few still do, or at least pay lip service to it, though now they have been reduced to being grateful for having a job, any job. When you're easily replaced and are devalued you no longer pretend to have a choice. To feed your family you work harder and for less and without benefits. You eat shit and you ask for seconds.

Eating shit eventually makes you bitter and resentful of anyone who does not appear to be eating their share of shit. So you feel that anyone else who gets a break, especially a government-assisted leg up is cheating you. From resentment it is only a short skip to hatred and the illogical behavior that comes with hatred. Like voting Republican against your own best interests.

http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2005/04/lets_drink_to_t.html">Joe Bageant, Let's Drink To The Slobbering Classes

RIP - Joe Bageant, (1946-2011)

[Blue_Tires]

35. ttt

[Zax2me]

36. Thanks!!!!

K&R