I think that people who inherit wealth deserve it.

[MannyGoldstein]

They worked hard for it. We should not have an estate tax to keep them from enjoying what they earned.

Thank you for letting me get that off my chest.

[NRaleighLiberal]

1. ...beautifully put. K&R n/t

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. ...

:popcorn:

[NRaleighLiberal]

3. I am hoping it is sarcasm......!!!

:hi:

[valerief]

9. If you have to ask...

[MannyGoldstein]

10. Is

Of course. I'm in an odd mood.

[NRaleighLiberal]

11. I knew it (hence the K&R!)

[FarLeftFist]

4. The biggest majority of billionaires are those who inherited their wealth.

[HuckleB]

61. Yup.

And they are not good for society, as a whole. At least that's my anecdotal take, after growing up working construction building custom homes. It seemed like people who had worked for the money, talked to the workers, and often brought us food and drinks on Fridays. Those who inherited their money seemed like they were taken aback by having to see the people who were building their 15th house.

[newspeak]

107. too much inherited accumulated wealth

in the hands of a few families can give them more influence and power especially in the political arena. Of course, some children born into families of great wealth also face the strict control of ones family; hence, even their dreams may be crushed by the influence of money.

[Warpy]

5. I inherited enough that the income is keeping me in the shit state I've always enjoyed

It was well under the limit that year, so I owed no tax.

Had it been over the limit, I'd have paid those taxes gratefully.

I don't get these people who want to leave their enormous financial empires intact to ungrateful brats who did nothing to build them and will do nothing to maintain them.

[reggie the dog]

90. give me 50 million dollars and i will maintain it

and ensure that no future generation of my family will ever work by teaching them how to maintain it too, not all wealthy people squander their family patrimony. having said that they can pay tax on the inheritance when it is over a certain figure.

[Warpy]

97. Not me, I'd give it away

and leave myself with the income I've got now, adequate to keep me in the same shit state I've always enjoyed.

And yes, I am giving away what I don't need. It's a gas, actually.

[reggie the dog]

99. i would want to ensure that my own kid and potential grandkids

were taken care of, you are less individualistic than i am for sure

[Warpy]

105. Maybe I'd feel differently if I'd bred (it was on the to-do list, honestly)

but I can't imagine wanting to saddle offspring with an empire. I think my own parents would likely have given a lot to charity and left me with about what I have now, enough to live on but not enough to join the jet set. My mother came from serious money, wiped out by the Depression, and certainly knew what happened to a lot of those kids and it wasn't pretty, not in the 1920s and not now.

Had I gotten what I have now when I was far younger, I'd still have worked for a living, in other words, and found some meaning in life beyond utter boredom punctuated by meaningless "charity" functions at which the wealthy see are are seen.

Warren Buffett also realizes this stuff and most of his fortune will be disbursed to various charities on his death, leaving his offspring enough to live very modestly on but certainly leaving them with a need to work if they want to live better.

[xchrom]

6. We don't have enough respect for people who don't earn their money. Nt

[Jefferson23]

45. lol. n/t

:thumbsup:

[valerief]

7. Indeed. Who could argue with hard work like that? It's not like some slacker

fireman expecting a pension for life, living off the govt teat. Wealth heirs have many more bootstraps (they can afford more), and so they deserve a more advantageous tax treatment.

[andym]

funny. nt.

[Cerridwen]

8. I agree. Though I might have a different definition of "it" than your post implies.

I bet you'd agree with my definition of "it." I won't post what "it" is...board rules and all that.

[Broderick]

12. My hot button

The sad fucking fact bout estate taxes is that it hurts the middle class parents and grandparents the most. Know why? Because the elite rich are able to have estate planners and lawyers protect the wealth while the little ole man handing down a 60000 house to his grandkids gets fucked. He didn't have the entourage of help in protecting the estate. The bastard children born into wealth, which the serfs like me don't see because they live in their gated communities and private schools, have wealth for life that they can in turn pass on to their bastard children.

The estate tax code is written to preserve the elite wealth, the privileged class wealth, and take the serf's wealth away.


If you donated 100.00 bucks to a campaign, you are a serf. Better learn to bundle up and get the privy insider code to protecting your "wealth", even if it is a mere 60K home you bought and paid for before you DIE. The privileged class has tax loopholes written in for them. The whole tax code for America is more than a person can read in a life time, and so much of it is written in little bytes to protect one and all that donate to the perpetual circle jerk of life in America.

[valerief]

16. Every bit of tax code is written to protect the wealthy. nt

[Broderick]

22. EVERY FUCKING LITTLE BIT

[Luminous Animal]

18. There is no estate tax from an individual at $5 million or less. For married couples $10M

That little ole man's $600,000 house is well below the minimum.

[Broderick]

24. There is estate tax at any level - learn it

Unless you got the lawyers and the accountants to lock it in a TAX FEE trust.

[Luminous Animal]

32. www.irs.gov

"Most relatively simple estates (cash, publicly traded securities, small amounts of other easily valued assets, and no special deductions or elections, or jointly held property) do not require the filing of an estate tax return. A filing is required for estates with combined gross assets and prior taxable gifts exceeding $1,500,000 in 2004 - 2005; $2,000,000 in 2006 - 2008; $3,500,000 for decedents dying in 2009; and $5,000,000 or more for decedent's dying in 2010 or later (note: there are special rules for decedents dying in 2010."

[Broderick]

34. What's the gift tax above 13000?

come on now. What happens if the owner goes into a nursing home?

If not in a trust.

[Luminous Animal]

37. An owner does not lose ownership by going into a nursing home.

A gift is not an estate.

[Broderick]

39. So wrong.

If you own a home, and are on medicare, and you go to a nursing home - they take the home until you qualify for medicaid. This is simple shit. If you are wealthy, and all your assets belong to a trust - you never get hurt..

[Luminous Animal]

47. A home would have more than $500,000 dollars in equity before it affects Medicaid eligibility.

States allowed to up this to $750,000 in equity. If the spouse or disabled child still lives in the home, equity, no matter how steep, is not affected.

There are some (though very few) housing markets in the U.S. where even the $750,000 limit is too low so I believe the equity threshold should be revisited.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DrunkenBoat]

86. Unless the state is paying for the home.

[lumberjack_jeff]

76. You're confusing estate taxes with paying for one's own healthcare. n/t

[crazyjoe]

102. SNAP :-)

[Matariki]

49. No, Luminous Animal is correct about that.

[csziggy]

80. Wrong

"estates valued at $5 million or less are exempt from the tax. Estates worth more than $5 million are taxed at a 35 percent rate."

Read more: 2010-2011 estate tax and gift tax amounts http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/estate-tax-and-gift-tax-amounts.aspx#ixzz1YSf4Myyx


No trust needed.

Now that is federal level. Your state may have some sort of estate tax, but that is a whole different animal.

[Curmudgeoness]

19. There is no estate tax on an estate of $60,000, or

even close to that. And there has never been talk about estate taxes hitting anyone at that level.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Curmudgeoness]

38. Oh lord! The term "death tax" is just meant to scare people,

and I am sure you know that. It is used by the wealthy and their protectors to turn middle and working class people off on them.

And if you don't have vast assets, and you go into a nursing home and cannot afford it, this has absolutely nothing to do with estate taxes. Yes, it does mean you lose assets, but not to the government and not to taxes. You are arguing apples and zebras.

[Broderick]

42. 21 days you are allowed on medicare

the entirety of your assets gets eaten up until you get to the level of medicaid.

Wake up.


I hate rich people apologists.

[Luminous Animal]

50. Huh? If I get sick NOW (well before Medicare age) and I am unable to work...

I will have to use my savings to pay my bills and for my care beyond insurance coverage. Everyone does.

Do you propose that all nursing care should be paid by the state? If I have a $10 million in assets and suffer an injury that leaves me requiring constant care, should my care be paid by the state ?

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Luminous Animal]

70. Not rich and not a boy but I have worked as an advocate for people on both Medicare

and Medicaid. In fact, I've been arrested for affiliated actions directed at preserving both.

[Curmudgeoness]

54. Why do you keep telling me you hate rich people apologists?

Do you believe that is what I am? You are still evading the issue of estate taxes. You are talking about a whole different problem.

[Broderick]

57. If you are 70 and you own a home and are on medicare

and your home and property, bank accounts, etc, are not in a rich people's trust then....... After 21 days, the health care providers are allowed to put a lien on your assets because medicare won't pay.

And then if you are in long term, life term, your assets go to the health care provider until such time that medicaid kicks in.

I can't believe what I am seeing here tonight. Folks are praising the rich that hide their assets and property in trusts that can't be touched. The middle class, the working class gets screwed by the death dealers selling here and they apologize for the inequity of life.

I am saddened.

[nadinbrzezinski]

73. As somebody else told you

apples and zebras... inheritance taxes have nothing to do with medicare.

[TBF]

55. It is done with trusts -

most wealthy people pass their money on to their heirs this way.

[lumberjack_jeff]

63. Do you know fucking anything about estate taxes?

One can bequeath as many $60,000 houses as one wishes, tax free.

Even in the tax crazy decade 10 years ago he could give away one to each of his thirty-five grandkids, estate tax free.

Estate taxes don't affect middle-class estates and they never have.

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. No estate taxes do not apply to the Middle Class

or for that matter if monies belonged to a foreign national.

:banghead:

[csziggy]

78. Estate tax does not kick in until $5 million

So a 60 grand house would be exempt if that is the main asset of the estate.

"estates valued at $5 million or less are exempt from the tax. Estates worth more than $5 million are taxed at a 35 percent rate."

Read more: 2010-2011 estate tax and gift tax amounts http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/estate-tax-and-gift-tax-amounts.aspx#ixzz1YSf4Myyx

[dpibel]

82. What ARE you talking about???

Do you actually know what the estate tax is on a $60,000 house is?

How about a $600,000 house? (Dare to dream big.)

Clearly you do not know.

The answer in both cases is:

Zero.

Please explain in 100 words or fewer this: How does paying $0 constitute getting fucked?

Thank you for proving that endless propaganda really works! Those people on the teevee keep talkin' about how that thur death tax is a-comin' for YOU.

And you, apparently, take it at face value.

[DrunkenBoat]

85. Agreed. I was checking into trusts awhile back, & some families have some that

have been going since the 19th & early twentieth century.

What we don't know about their money would fill volumes.

[Cool Logic]

13. Actually, the bequeathing individual is the one who did all of the work...

and paid the taxes. And that means that the government has already received its fair share.

Making death a taxable event is a morbid policy.

[Coyote_Bandit]

14. Thank you!

For whatever reason we seem to assume that inheritances are generally left for those who don't deserve them.

Meanwhile, there are a lot of folks that scrimp and save and forego lots of opportunities to spend their money in order to leave that inheritance. It is not at all uncommon for them to use that inheritance to reward the folks who cared for them - or to provide resources to care for a disabled family member - or a family member who has had a run of bad luck or had to overcome some unusual challenges.

[JI7]

27. and people will get that inheritance, they just have to pay taxes on it, just like a hard working

person who earns money from their job will pay tax on it. and when that person buys something with that money the person who recieves that money will pay tax on it.

[Coyote_Bandit]

64. Think what you will but

IMHO not all inheritances should be taxed.

There is no good policy reason to tax someone who has worked, earned, paid taxes on money that was saved to provide an inheritance to someone who would otherwise be dependent upon an entitlement program.

Likewise, there is no good reason to tax an estate which includes a small business ownership if that will force the business to close or no longer be competitive. Yes, that shit does happen - especially with small family businesses.

Taxing smaller estates (1) discourages savings and (2) encourages tax avoidance measures.

Those inheritance taxes can pretty easily be avoided with a little planning. Let's assume someone owns real estate valued at $3 million - and that is their primary asset. They can create a charitable remainder trust and gift the property to that trust. They then get to consider the full $3 million as a charitable contribution. That will reduce their tax liability and they can use the $$$ saved to purchase a life insurance policy to replace the value lost to their estate from the gift. When they die the charity gets th real estate, the value of the real estate is not included in the taxable estate, and the heirs get the life insurance which carries no tax liability. This kiind of tax avolidance scheme works particularly well with highly appreciated property. Everybody wins - except the taxpayers.

Eliminating the ability to avoid taxes would more than compensate for permitting estates of say $3 or below to be exempt from estate taxes.

[Pithlet]

15. Why should income I work for get taxed

but income being handed down just because someone related to you died not be? That's income, too. It should also be taxed.

[valerief]

17. Since money is recycled, aren't taxes always being paid over and over again for the same dollar?

[JI7]

25. yes it is, someone who buys something from money left after taxes

would pay that money to someone. that person in turn would pay taxes on that money they get.

the death tax is such bs. but a lot of people fall for it.

[JI7]

21. there is no death tax, the dead person doesn't have to pay anything

[JI7]

30. also, not everyone who is giving the inheritance worked for that money

they themselves inherited wealth .

in many cases the people who made the wealth got nothing .

[tkmorris]

35. That is absolute nonsense

Yes, the government has received it's share, AS LONG AS THAT MONEY STAYS WITH THE PERSON WHO EARNED IT. The govt doesn't tax money that sits still, they tax transactions. Like, for example, when the wealthy person earns it and when it changes hands due to the original earnee dying. It'll get taxed again when those fortunate inheritors use it for some other purpose. At every step where it changes hands, with few exceptions, it is taxed. Creating an exception for inheritances would make such a transaction quite unusual in that sense.

[rucky]

41. Couldn't you say the same about any money that changes hands more than once?

We're not taxing the money, we're taxing the earners - or in this case, the non-earners who get paid anyway.

[Broderick]

44. we have estate tax apologists here, but they only care about the wealthy

If you are on medicare, you get 21 days in a nursing home. If you don't have your assets in a trust 10 years prior, they eat away on that til you are on medicaid. but we have people here praising it to protect the rich.

FUCK the apologists that apologize to the wealthy.


It is the middle class earners that get fucked with every tax. The tax code is so voluminousness that it would take a life time to read and find all the loopholes specific to each and every donor to the re-elections.

[TheKentuckian]

87. The issue you are discussing IS NOT the estate tax.

Nobody (well...few) is in love with Medicaid sucking grandma's savings and little house she wanted to pass on BUT that is not the estate tax.

You are actually screaming about protecting the rich when folks are talking about hitting multi-million dollar inheritance.
You realize that if you don't straighten up the terminology some you are the one protecting the assets of the inheritance tax when it only applies to the rich when your concern is a horse of a completely different color.

The inheritance tax is 100% not Medicaid drawing you down to nothing and giving you a half a room and some institutional grub.

The draw down may be taxing the hell out of your inheritance but that isn't the inheritance tax.

[Occulus]

65. Unless it was THEIR dad or mom who did the work.

Or their grandparents.

Or even great-grandparents.

[quaker bill]

100. It is not the death that is taxed

it is the transfer of wealth.

[RagAss]

20. Yes..agree..and always remember: "It's all fun and games until some wheels out a fucking Guillotine"

[Curmudgeoness]

23. It really is hard work. Imagine how difficult it is to kiss asses

of arrogant egotistical parents and grandparents just to get a few million bucks!

[Warren DeMontague]

26. A lot of people get money other people don't think they "deserve".

Lottery winners. The Sham Wow guy. Sarah Palin.

Look around at who is rich; it's not exactly a meritocracy, by any stretch.

I realize that it's fun to bash Paris Hilton and enviously complain about the undeserving heirs of rich people, but the bottom line around the Estate tax is the same as it is with other forms of taxation; big-ass sums should be taxed, but it needs to be kept in perspective so that, say, middle-class folks inheriting the family home in a high-value real estate market (like California) aren't screwed.

[JI7]

31. how would they be screwed ? they can reject the inheritance

or just sell it off and pay taxes from that money. they would still be left with money.

[Warren DeMontague]

83. Selling the family home to pay the taxes on it? And live where?

Not cool. However, since the exemption has been raised, now it's a moot point.

[nadinbrzezinski]

77. If that family home is worth 5 million dollars

it is not quite a middle class home, even in California.

[Warren DeMontague]

84. I agree. I was speaking to the old exemption.

Sorry for not being more clear.

[L0oniX]

29. Just like if your are born impoverished and inherit nothing ...you deserve it.

O well.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

33. inherit? Distribution of wealth to the poor

That's how societies should function - distribution. They earn and they help out.

[nomb]

36. I once got in a fight with a wealthy older man about it, it went like this:

I told him I supported a confiscatory inheritance tax.

He freaked, it's his money he should be able to save it and spend it how he likes - even if it's on his kids.

I said fine, let's just put a number on it - any number. 10 Million, 50 million, anything. How much do they need? Give it to them.

But let's have a number.

My reasoning? The transfer of wealth and the fluidity of people up and down the economic ladder was what gave individuals opportunity and made for our classless society of largely meritocratic wealth. (Coupled with the fact that wealth buys education, and education for the wealthy is wasted largely on people who have short unproductive careers in which their education and talents are underutilized for society's good)

He did not disagree - and before you start picking apart my decades old conversation I do realize this is a simplistic overview and generalization that misses much - but it's also something many across the nation would agree with:

There is a "number" when enough is enough.

[csziggy]

81. Today that number is $5 million - above that is taxed 35%

I think that is fairly reasonable. It is enough to protect family owned businesses if there should be an unexpected death that does not allow for planing.

[nomb]

93. I support a confiscatory inheritance tax, above say, $150million, a 100% tax. That's plenty for all

[scarletwoman]

40. Dear Manny, I'm guessing that your dry wit and sarcasm has gone right over many DUer's heads,

judging by the fact that your OP shows zero recs - despite my own humble effort of rec'ing your post.

Just thought I'd chime in to say, you're alright with me. :thumbsup:

sw

[MannyGoldstein]

51. Thank you.

Feeling weird tonight. I think a cold is brewing.


I figured I'd weirdout everyone else.

[scarletwoman]

58. "I figured I'd weirdout everyone else." I believe you have succeeded.

:D

My sincere wishes that you are able to overcome whatever may be brewing, and will continue on in good health after a good night's rest.

Barring that, may you enjoy whatever buzz there may be had from the pharmaceuticals (or herbal remedies) of your choice.

sw

[Zorra]

88. Yeh...I'm thinking the same thing

and it worries me because I have a very cryptic sense of humor, and Manny's post is so obviously flat out sarcasm to me that I don't understand how anyone could think it was serious.

[rucky]

43. Finally, someone with the courage to speak for the privileged!

[stevedeshazer]

46. I agree.

These people work their asses off.

Sitting poolside waiting for the socialist US Postal Service to deliver the dividend checks at a 15% tax rate is hard fucking work.

Instead, these jerkoff Republicans would rather tax me and the missus at 36% and give Grover Norquist a pass at 15%.

Jesus H. Fucking Christ.

If I described my actual work day as a middle-aged guy, you would not believe it.

[morningglory]

48. Ask George and Jeb Bush. Poor people are lazy. nt

[mentalsolstice]

52. My husband & I will hopefully inherit enough...

...to keep us going in old age. We're lucky, our grandparents and parents lived decently well, but also saved for their children and grandchildren. We don't have anything right NOW. I'm on SSDI, but if I ever inherit a big something, I have no problem being taxed on it. It's just fair.

[HuckleB]

59. You're right.

Uh, to make a point that is being aimed at the current jobs plan, didn't charity giving go down when the death tax was eliminate, or cut, I can't remember what?

If not, hmmmmmmm.

[lumberjack_jeff]

60. Yes. "Unearned income" has such unfairly negative connotations. n/t

[otohara]

62. If I Win The Lottery, I Will Refuse To Pay Taxes

on it, because, you know,I deserve it, buying all those lottery tix is hard work....since I wasn't lucky enough to be born into wealth.

[inna]

66. what a strange thread...

[MannyGoldstein]

67. +1 nt

[moondust]

68. They're the achievers.

They mustn't be punished or they'll stop achieving.

:)

[Zax2me]

69. Most millionaires are first generation.

Look it up.

[MannyGoldstein]

71. Because of inflation, that's true, but...

We have far more millionaires today than we did a few decades ago.

But most of the people in the top 1% were born into the first 1%.

That being said, I'm not sure what this all has to do with the estate tax.

[lumberjack_jeff]

75. Meaningless.

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/national/20050515_CLASS_GRAPHIC/index_03.html

The US very little class mobility compared to other industrialized countries.

[Zorra]

74. It's a tough job, but somebody's gotta do it. nt

[sfpcjock]

79. You are entitled to your opinion, just don't make it mine, plz.

It's just that historically this has not been the case in this country, and that is a BIG reason why we have the things that we do and that the middle class does today. You should be aware of that fact.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

89. Fucking post of the year! K&R!!! n/t

[jberryhill]

91. Do you have any idea how many other sperm cells tried?

[GoneOffShore]

92. I stand with you Manny.

Hope the cold gets better.

[Stinky The Clown]

94. Wow. The replies to this post are quite something.

[devilgrrl]

95. How does someone work for the wealth they inherited?

Being born into the right family is hard work.

This thread is a joke.

[MannyGoldstein]

96. Yes, this thread is a joke

A little too dry, my apologies.

[Retrograde]

98. I used to think I should be Queen of England

Never mind that I have absolutely no English ancestry, I'd think I'd make a great queen: I can wave nicely, and declare bridges open, and I wouldn't mind living in a castle. And I have better dress sense than the current claimant. Lately, though, I've decided I'll settle for being Warden of the Cinque Ports, since it has no responsibilities and comes with the cutest little castle.

There are two main ways to get rich: inherit money (or a leg up), and be very, very lucky. Since I didn't choose my ancestors wisely I've had to rely on the latter.

[Enthusiast]

101. Me too.

I mean, they pulled themselves up by their bootstraps. Oh, wait.

[LWolf]

103. I think that I should have the uncontested right

to give whatever I have to whomever I want when I die. Whether it's nothing, a little, or a lot, it's mine. My death doesn't, or shouldn't, make it the government's.

Any of it.

I paid taxes on every damned penny that's left, and every damned penny that bought anything. I don't think I should be taxed again for dying.

[DaveJ]

104. I actually feel sorry for them

We should build luxurious retreats for them on exotic islands to make up for the injustice we have caused them by being poor in their presence, reduce their taxes to zero, work for them for just barely enough money to eat and sleep in a bed, die right away when we get sick, don't send our kids to school, and eat fake processed food similar to what livestock eat. That won't make up for the injustices we have caused them, so we should continue to suck up to them, if we are ever blessed with their presence, grovel at their feet and tell them how great and mighty they are.

[Solly Mack]

106. Indeed.