Libya: New Gov strategy is to STARVE opposition while NATO BOMBS and Long-range weapons are readied

[Distant Observer]

It might seem to some that what the new Libyan rulers are DOING to opposition groups and tribes is more monstrous, brutal and genocidal in its proportions than anything even THREATENED by the former dictator -- who is so hated by the West.

http://english.ruvr.ru/2011/09/15/56195763.html

Rebels starve pro-Gaddafi towns

Libya’s rebel National Transitional Council is trying to force disobedient regions into submission by starvation, Musa Ibrahim, a spokesman for the defiant Libyan ruler Muammar Gaddafi, told the Al-Rai television on Wednesday.

Things are very hard for the population of the besieged towns of Sirte and Bani Walid that have refused to surrender, he said. The rebels cut off water and electricity and shut off food and medicines supplies.

Libya: Bani Walid storming postponed

Forces loyal to the Libyan National Transitional Council (NTC) have postponed the storming of Bani Walid until Saturday.

They also asked the citizens to flee the city located 160 km to the south of Tripoli.

As of today, the area is still controlled by the pro-Gaddafi forces, while the militants have managed to seize only northern and southern outskirts.

Heavy vehicle are on their way from Tripoli to Bani Walid.

[Starry Messenger]

1. recommend.

[al bupp]

9. Actually, loyalists are preventing people from leaving Sirte

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1964355&mesg_id=1968635">Libya: Civilians flee Sirte amid battle (& confirm loyalists shooting civilians trying to leave)

[Distant Observer]

10. Contradicted by BBC interviews which said civilians can't leave because: NO GAS

In those interviews no one said anything about people being shot. In fact the info was that many had left before all supplies for travel -- GAS, WATER, FOOD -- had run out.

I guess the rebel rule is WALK THOUGH THE HOT DESERT AND WE WILL LET YOU LIVE. Else you deserve DEATH.

Not to say that there both may not be true.

But we have learned (from the rebels themselves) that much of the
communications on their side is well calculated propaganda.
The same might be said for the info from the other side.

[al bupp]

17. CBC: Refugees flee Gadhafi's embattled hometown

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/09/20/libya-refugees-flee-sirte.html?cmp=rss

Families in pickup trucks stacked with mattresses and jugs of water fled Moammar Gadhafi's hometown of Sirte Tuesday ahead of an expected new push by revolutionary forces to seize the city from die-hard loyalists of the fugitive leader.

Fleeing residents said they had been living under a state of siege with Gadhafi's forces preventing them from leaving, while living conditions deteriorated and the city came under constant rocket fire and NATO bombardment.

...

"Our guys are going inside the city to give the families what they need, water and fuel so they can leave," field commander Mohammed Mebeggan said as NATO warplanes flew overhead. "We are giving them the opportunity to leave. Today is the last day."

"I tried to leave earlier with my family, but Gadhafi's forces wouldn't let me," said Abdullah Mohammed, 34, a computer engineer travelling with his wife, two daughters and son. "We managed to run away at dawn by taking back roads out of the city."

[Distant Observer]

24. Interesting that the new Libya rulers admit rolling in long-range weapons against civilian city

Sirte has been a quite peaceful civilian town for centuries, now a beautiful symbolic city. Now they will pay the ultimate price of elimination for being where the former dictator was born.

The new rulers of Libya just want supportive civilians out of Sirte before they kill all the un-supportive civilians -- just collateral damage, of course. How nice.

[court jester]

2. and if that doesn't work maybe they'll get NATO to drop more clusterbombs like they did in Kosovo

Here is just one glimpse of what it looks like when NATO drops a clusterbomb



The aftermath of the NATO Clusterbombing of a market place in Nis, Yugoslavia

That's a bag of carrots, not some plastic explosive

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_bombing_of_Nis

This "protecting civilians" thing is such a blatant lie that it is staining the conscience of all of humanity. Or at least those that are still paying attention.

[Distant Observer]

4. Evidence is that NATO special forces has been using cluster munitions -- and blaming Gaddafi

[al bupp]

8. Ahem, sir, may I ask what evidence?

Please provide something other than simply an allegation by Musa Ibrahim.

[Distant Observer]

11. This was not an allegation by spokesperson Ibrahim. Was independent analysis of data

It is not clear whether there was a real use of these weapons or just planted evidence to support a psyops propaganda theme. But beyond one or two incident that could have been fired by US special forces to intervene in particularly fierce ground fight (US forces are provisioned with these weapons) or just for the benefit of HRW observers there has been no subsequent evidence of use by forces loyal to the former Government.

http://ozyism.blogspot.com/2011/05/nato-use-cluster-bomb-in-libya-full.html

[al bupp]

16. This analysis has been refuted and neither Ozyism Blog nor the HRI are credible

Chivers refutes the allegations made by HRI (a dodgy "Human Rights" organization, to say the least) in http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/23/following-up-part-iii-down-the-rabbit-hole-qaddafis-cluster-munitions-and-the-age-of-internet-claims/">this post on cluster bombs. The blog you refer to sir repeats all sorts of ridiculous claims, such as Gaddafi's forces having retaken Ras Lanuf and entered Misrata, as well as NATO using mustard gas in Bani Walid (supposedly "confirmed" by the Syrian TV station which has been airing Gaddafi's latest rants.) You will have to do better than these sources in order to be convincing.

[Distant Observer]

22. Read all links. Ok, so we can rely on any side in this propagada war. Are the 8,000 + missile strike

by NATO -- as reported by NATO - also questioned? Maybe these missiles are really mostly healthcare delivery vehicles not massively destructive and environmentally polluting arsenals??

[al bupp]

25. I don't know about the total, which sounds a bit high...

but obviously NATO has been dropping bombs and missiles on targets in Libya. I think the evidence is that they've largely been extremely precise and that the targets have been carefully vetted.

To date, there has been one instance that I know of where a missile hit the wrong target and killed <10 civilians. While tragic, this is clearly several orders of magnitude fewer people then would have died had not the international community intervened. I do not think it's fair to characterize the attacks as having been "massively destructive", or as carpet bombing (as characterized by some).

On the whole, I think the outcome has been much better for the Libyan people because of the involvement of NATO then it would have been without it.

[Distant Observer]

26. As of Sept 1st 7,920 STRIKE sorties. 21,090 total sorties. BUT 10 CIVILIAN DEATHS - LIKE IN IRAQ

Some have thorough knowledge of events in Libya. Only dupes believe there was more that 1 errant missile that killed < 10.

I know a few of those dupes. They have seen and heard of numerous killed that did nothing to deserve death.
They have seen the bubbling of hatred with the spilling of blood. Unfortunately, they live in Libya.

----------

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-is-britai...

Nato aircraft have clocked up a total of 21,090 sorties (missions) in Libya since March 31.

And of these, the US was easily the biggest contributor – latest Pentagon figures show American sorties accounted for a quarter of the total.

But the Americans flew far less strike sorties. These are missions that engage an enemy target (though they don’t necessarily involve dropping bombs or firing missiles).

Just eight of Nato’s 28 members were prepared to attack, and these eight totted up 7,920 strike sorties (though one – Norway – withdrew last month).

Nato doesn’t give a breakdown of which countries did what, so the best we have to go on are the figures quoted by the NATO-affiliated foreign policy think-tank Atlantic Council.

[Mimosa]

20. The faces of WAR.

Court Jester, that photo shows what war is really about. In my mind Picasso's Guernica says it too. Yet mankind keeps repeating the violence, over and over again. :(

[Warren Stupidity]

3. 'sok: this bloodbath is approved. nt.

[Distant Observer]

14. And will be executed, morning, noon or night.

[Arctic Dave]

5. K&R

[blindpig]

6. 'Freedom fighters', say it ain't so.

Tools of imperialism is more like it.

k&r

[Hart2008]

7. Starving villages into submission. Sounds just like the fascists in the Spanish Civil War. NT

[Distant Observer]

12. Difference being an Air Armanda with missile strikes and heli gunships killing from above

[Hart2008]

13. The fascists were low tech. They only had Stuka bombers from the German Condor Legion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_87

[geek tragedy]

15. If Qadaffi's mouthpiece says it, it must be true.

Because anti-American dictators are oracles of truth for a certain faction here.

[Distant Observer]

18. BLOOBERG NEWS, THE GUARDIAN, MSNBC : True Qudaffi mouth pieces?? How informed!

:sarcasm:

BLOOMBERG
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-14/libya-s-sirte-lacking-food-water-as-anti-qaddafi-fighters-pursue-siege.html

Libya’s Sirte Short of Food, Water as Anti-Qaddafi Fighters Pursue Siege

By Chris Stephen - Sep 14, 2011 11:51 AM PT


Living conditions inside Sirte, the Libyan coastal city held by forces loyal to Muammar Qaddafi, are deteriorating as food and water run low.

THE GUARDIAN

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/04/bani-walid

Bani Walid: an escalating humanitarian crisis

Muammar Gaddafi's stronghold said to be a scene of growing desperation with no power or water and food running low


MSNBC

'Why are you waiting?': Residents plead for Libyan fighters to attack their town

Bani Walid has been under siege for two weeks as Gadhafi loyalists and the new government's troops stare each other down

[countryjake]

19. This plan to starve Sirte has been reported by MS news all month...

I first read about the NTC planning this type of siege back in August...mainstream media was reporting it, not any "mouthpieces", as you say.

Just because some are content to remain uninformed, why criticize and condemn those who are not?

[Warren Stupidity]

23. it is so confusing when the world is not all white hats and black

I understand your confusion.

[malaise]

21. Don't you love Western humanity!!

These are war crimes.