How to make a creationist weep. By Mark Morford

[madokie]

Do you want to know the real reason Barack Obama is going to win the 2012 election? The big, grinning hunk of overwhelming evidence that has little to do with the not-very-terrific job he's doing and not nearly enough to do with the fact that the man has actually accomplished quite a lot, despite being savaged and hobbled and compromised at nearly every turn?

The reason, as most comparable explanations are, is sort of awesome in its pureform power. The most interesting part is that it has almost nothing to do with Obama at all and everything to do with the fact that his opponents are, largely and comfortably, insane.

What, too harsh? Too mean? Not even close, honeybomb. ...

(Full URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/09/21/notes092111.DTL&nl=fix)

[malaise]

1. Good read

K & R :hi:

[AsahinaKimi]

13. I agree !

K&R

[Sarah Ibarruri]

2. American Christianity has done a great deal of evil to the U.S. in the past 31 years

It has dumbed them down by brainwashing congregants
Supported sexism
Backed Repukes
Lied to them
Promoted hatred
Played an integral part in the current misery our country is suffering
And so much more,
and I don't see or hear any Christians fighting against the damage the mainstream Christianity has done.

[NNN0LHI]

7. +1

[Dogtown]

8. +1

[newspeak]

17. months ago I was listening to Robert Kennedy Jr with a minister

on how the right took over the SBC. It was very enlightening how certain churches have been infiltrated. I was catholic under Pope John the XXIII, then it was about social justice, about poverty--I haven't liked a pope since then. No longer a catholic--instead of evolving, the church seems to miss it's inquisition, back to the dark ages days.

The damn puritans weren't the only ones who settled in America. And the puritan ideology wasn't just about that so-called austere "work ethic." It seems that they loved control-controlling peoples personal lives. Some were also major hypocrites. It reminds me of a story we read in women's studies about a quaker who lived amongst the puritans--it seemed that they not only used stocks but also public whippings. The quaker noticed those who were being whipped by the town elders were all young women. Of course, they had to expose their back for the whippings, so when the next whipping came she exposed her back and told them to whip her instead, which they refused (she was elderly). Then she called them out for their actions

We've got some with that mentality today and some politicians are either playing to the delusional or they actually believe with them. Both, to me, are very scary.

[Dogtown]

26. Agree with all you say.

Interesting Quaker/Protestant anecdote.
Tells much.

[philly_bob]

34. Great anecdote but who is SBC? (nt)

[dawg]

10. I'm one.

I try, in my small ineffectual way, to fight against the damage some other Christians have done. Lot's of other DU'ers are the same as me, only they do more good and get more done.

And let's not forget our Christian President, who just dumped DADT into the dustbin of history!

[polmaven]

29. You may not see or hear us

because you are turning a blind eye here on DU, and because those of us who re doing so are not controversial enough to be covered by the media.

Supported sexism
Backed Repukes
Lied to them
Promoted hatred
Played an integral part in the current misery our country is suffering

I have spoken out against each of those right here on this board, as have all of the Christians who post here. You apparently do not believe there is such a thing as liberal Christians, but there are many of us.

It does get really old to be constantly told we are all alike, and we are all hateful bigots. We are not. I truly think there are more of us who are not than there are those who are. It is just that they are covered and we are not.

As an example.....do you think Rev. Al Sharpton is any of those things? How about Senator Kennedy - was he?

Please do not lump all of us in with the bigots who do what they do in the NAME of Christianity. Jesus himself was a liberal community organizer.

[tex-wyo-dem]

31. Thanks, polmaven...

You are one of the Christians who truly gets it. Christianity as well as all major religions and spiritual practices are rooted in the same basic principles (non-violence, non-stealing, helping out your fellow man, etc, etc). Unfortuately, there are the few who, throughout history, have used religion and twisted it out of shape to serve their own desires for power and wealth and give the whole thing a bad name.

[Fumesucker]

3. I think these two points are mutually exclusive..

"We must remember that a mere 20 years ago the vast majority of the nation, upwards of 93 percent of us, knew evolution to be a fact, and only seven percent walked around smacking themselves in the face with coloring books and wondering when Jesus was going to return with lollipops and hugs.

And now? Bad news, America. According to a new survey, in a scant two decades, the number of Americans "uncertain" about evolution has tripled. What's worse, roughly third of the nation believe evolution to be "absolutely false." Only Turkey ranks lower in such basic smarts. Thanks, megachurches!"



And..



"Tell them advanced civilizations do not ever really intellectually degenerate. Tell them that, developmentally speaking, the human brain is not really designed to unfurl and regress, to suddenly erase complex, deeply learned wisdom. It is not our nature to understand, say, electromagnetic waveform and photosynthesis and suddenly revert to thinking it's all magic fairies and gnome spit.

You can say we will never return to slavery. Our hospitals will never again lop off gangrenous limbs with rusty hacksaws and no anesthesia. Never again will we believe the earth is flat, that we are the center of the universe, that trepanning will release evil spirits from your skull. And sorry, but we will never again believe that everything was created when angry bearded grandpa suddenly snapped his fingers and belched."

He points to an example of a nation backsliding on a massive scale intellectually and then says it can't happen.

You can't say we will never return to slavery, we are doing it now only we call it "for profit prisons"..

We may not go back to lopping gangrenous limbs off with hacksaws, we'll just let you die of gangrene without treatment instead, too bad you don't have the copay to actually use your mandated insurance.

[izquierdista]

9. I caught that too

The way I resolve it is that knowledge never really disappears, but it may go underground for a long time (i.e., centuries). After the fall of Rome, their knowledge went off to Constantinople, the Arab world, and to Irish monasteries. I'm afraid that the second half of his argument ignores the trend identified in the first half.

[G_j]

22. next they will begin to understand that the world is really flat

and is the center of the solar system..

disproving that humans are evolving..

[Cirque du So-What]

4. Highly recommended

A link to the 'How to make a creationist weep' article that Morford references, from SkepticReport.com, which is actually titled 'Things Creationists Hate':

http://www.skepticreport.com/sr/?p=499

Excellent, eh?

Morford makes the following prediction:

Tell them advanced civilizations do not ever really intellectually degenerate. Tell them that, developmentally speaking, the human brain is not really designed to unfurl and regress, to suddenly erase complex, deeply learned wisdom. It is not our nature to understand, say, electromagnetic waveform and photosynthesis and suddenly revert to thinking it's all magic fairies and gnome spit.

You can say we will never return to slavery. Our hospitals will never again lop off gangrenous limbs with rusty hacksaws and no anesthesia. Never again will we believe the earth is flat, that we are the center of the universe, that trepanning will release evil spirits from your skull. And sorry, but we will never again believe that everything was created when angry bearded grandpa suddenly snapped his fingers and belched.

IMO Morford is overly optimistic. Perhaps he is fortunate enough to never encounter the sort of willfully ignorant creation-believin' bible thumper it has been my displeasure of knowing, but I hold out little hope that common sense and reason will ever penetrate the bony concretions surrounding their blissfully oblivious brains. I hope Morford is right, and that these people are in an ever-diminishing minority.

[krispos42]

5. Funny article n/t

[MarianJack]

6. Good Article and...

...it's high time we started to treat the baggers and fundies as the idiots they are.

PEACE!

[Hotler]

11. k&r n/t

[hlthe2b]

12. Most self-identified Christians DO NOT believe this hooey...

Despite some DUers arguing that to be the case...(a thread a few days ago purported that ALL Christians believe the earth is 6000 years old)

Eighty-three percent of Americans identify themselves as Christians. Most of the rest, 13 percent, have no religion.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/beliefnet_poll_010718.html


..roughly third of the nation believe evolution to be "absolutely false."
http://logosjournal.com/2011/summer_czyz/
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/09/21/notes092111.DTL&ao=2



We do our entire progressive movement real harm when we deride, mock and exclude progressive Christians. The tenets of Christianity are, after all, very progressive and ones Darwin, himself was able to reconcile with science. I may be agnostic, but I am very intent on our not pushing away those very people from our "cause."

[gratuitous]

15. Oh, now you're being all intolerant and stuff

Calling out the bigotry and broad brush nonsense against people of faith! Don't you feel just horrible?

[AngkorWot]

18. 40% of Americans are creationists

Many more have watered down, scientifically incorrect misconceptions of Evolution. 60% of church going Christians are Creationists. ~100% of Creationists are Christian.

" Darwin, himself was able to reconcile with science."

Darwin died an atheist.

[hlthe2b]

20. No links, no proof, no point...

nothing worth posting...

[AngkorWot]

23. Funny. You kind of remind me of Creationists.

Sticking their fingers in their ears and going "la la la" when they hear something they didn't want to.

40% Americans Creationist

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/20/40-of-americans-still-bel_n_799078.html

Note, another 38% think that "God did evolution" rather than random mutation and natural selection.

Creationism a fundamentalist Christian belief

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creationism

"I never gave up Christianity until I was forty years of age."

-Charles Darwin

[hlthe2b]

24. You post a reply with nothing but snark and I remind YOU of creationists...

I cited my evidence. And nothing you have cited contradicts my point that most Christians do NOT discount evolution nor believe in a literal creationist view.

[AngkorWot]

25. "nothing but snark"

pointing out how you're wrong =/= snark

[stuntcat]

21. yah

embarrassing.

[kristopher]

14. Yep. K&R

[hifiguy]

16. Morford is a wonderful writer

whip-smart and always exactly the correct degree of snarkiness. A great read.

[G_j]

19. K&R!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

27. tell them that bacteria evolve to resist antibiotics.

That should blow their minds.

[JNelson6563]

28. That was fun.

[RedSpartan]

30. When I encounter someone who does not believe in evolution

I ask them to watch the Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show. For each of the dogs, the ring announcer states how they were bred by humans for this purpose or that purpose over hundreds or, at best, a couple thousand years.

It's very interesting in and of itself, but also shows how, you know... WE CAN AND HAVE "EVOLVED" LIFE OURSELVES IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME!!! Basically, each breed of domesticated dog is a walking, breathing example of evolution.

Makes you wonder what nature could do over hundreds of thousands, or hundreds of millions, of years...

[Arugula Latte]

32. The classic case of the Peppered Moth in Industrial Revolution England shows

natural evolution in a rather short span of time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth_evolution

[RedSpartan]

37. Very interesting. Thanks!

[cabot]

33. Great read!

Thanks.

[Sirveri]

35. Reagan could never win, he's just an actor. Bush could never win, he's too stupid...

Keep on beating that drum beat...

[RegieRocker]

36. More alienating of religious people. Real smart. Pot calling kettle black.

[and-justice-for-all]

38. Great read!!! nt