Troy Davis question about his statements last night

[justiceischeap]

"sorry for your loss, but I did not personally kill your son, father and brother. I am innocent...The incident that night was not my fault, I did not have a gun...continue to fight and look deeper into this case so you can really can finally see the truth."

Davis maintains his innocence about shooting the gun but has he denied being there? If he was there, in some states that makes him just as guilty as the actor that did the shooting. Just like in a bank robbery, if you're the get away driver but someone in the bank murders someone, the driver can be held just as guilty as the shooter. I'm wondering if this is why the McPhail family and others feel this execution was justified.

[digitaln3rd]

1. Every criminal says "I didn't do it".

n/t

[truebrit71]

5. Really, the piece of shit that got executed in tx last night said he'd do it again...

...if he got the chance...so, no, not every criminal says "they didn't do it"...

[Iggo]

6. And some of them didn't do it. (n/t)

[jwirr]

18. Which of course is the point - the conviction of Troy Davis was called

wrong by the very people who testified against him. This called for more investigation on the part of the state not just his lawyer. The state in negligent in this issue.

[Enrique]

8. that's demonstrably false

read these last words for example. A few maintain their innocence, but most do not:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/sep/20/usa.aidaedemariam

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. And over 100 have been later exonerated

What about them?

[NoGOPZone]

13. Timothy McVeigh didn't nt

[alcibiades_mystery]

16. Actually,professions of actual innocence in death penalty final statements

are exceedingly rare.

Many of the condemned don't go as far as the gurney confession, but don't actually proclaim innocence at that point. The vast majority have already admitted to the crime in public statements, and either apologize to the victims or say nothing in the death chamber.

The idea that everybody on the gurney says "I didn't do it" is simply empirically false. It's very damn uncommon to hear that in a death chamber, and we have most statements on record since 1976 (the modern DP era).

[fishwax]

17. (a) that's not true, and (b) some who say "I didn't do it" actually didn't do it

[uppityperson]

22. hahahahahahahahahaha

no text notice so you don't have to read down here in the message

[LanternWaste]

25. As does every innocent person...

As does every innocent person...

Six of one, half a dozen of the other in that its irrelevancy neither ads to, nor subtracts from the spine of the discussion.

[sinkingfeeling]

2. There were a lot of people there or there wouldn't have been 7 who recanted.

[DrunkenBoat]

27. Nine witnesses testified. The two who haven't recanted = 1) the alternative suspect & 2)

a military guy whose initial statement at the scene was that he couldn't identify anyone except by their clothing. Two years later at the trial he was suddenly able to ID Davis definitively.

That's it. Everyone else recanted and actually some recanted AT THE ORIGINAL TRIAL.

The court disallowed testimony from at least two witnesses who said the alternative suspect was the shooter.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

3. There are the notions of felony murder and conspiracy.

That being present in the commision of a felony that ends in a murder makes one guilty of murder even if he did not actually commit the deed himself. Say, for example, one robs a bank, a shoot out with police follows, and one of the police officer's bullets hits a bystander in the process and kills the bystander. The bank robber would then be guilty of a murder under the concept of felony murder, even though he did not actually fire the fatal shot.

The problem with this in the Davis case is that all the blame fell on Davis himself. If he was present but someone else was the shooter, why was he the one who got the ultimate punishment?

The bottom line is the death penalty is always wrong. Always.

[Botany]

4. Bingo!

To me at least that was a huge tell. "but I did not personally kill your son"

For What It Is Worth ( I don't know if this is true or not)

Mr. Davis was involved in a shooting earlier the same day that the policeman was shot and they tied the shell casings
from that shooting to the shell casings in the shooting of the policeman that evening. And that is was what the D.A. involved
in Mr. Davis' case has said for the record.

[JuniperLea]

9. So you think he deserved to die? eom

[Botany]

10. I don't know

I did not hear the case or see the evidence.

BTW I am anti death penalty because it costs too much, takes too long, it is used capriciously
in a manner where it hits the poor and uneducated in most all of the cases.

[JuniperLea]

24. I'm against it as well...

For the reasons you state, but mainly because human beings should not be killing others. We are one of the few nations who still use this antiquated and disgusting action. I find it pathetic and appalling that in this day and age we are still behaving as dull-witted brutes.

Human beings are flawed and make mistakes... when mistakes are made in this situation, there is no recourse.

[JuniperLea]

7. I've never heard of death by being there...

Obstruction of justice... accessory to a felony... long term imprisonment, sure... not death. There is no justification for death IMO, but there sure as hell is no legal justification for death under these circumstances.

[Booster]

14. I sat on a jury where the defendant gave another guy a gun and

that guy killed someone. Our defendant was not at the scene of the crime but he was on trial for 1st degree murder with the death penalty just for giving the guy the gun. I am very proud to say that I was instrumental in getting the rest of the jurors to vote for a lesser crime than 1st degree murder and the guy got a prison sentence but not the death penalty. I told the other jurors going in that I would in no way vote for 1st degree when the guy wasn't even at the scene, didn't pull the trigger, etc. They all pointed out that that was the law, and I understood that, but I just couldn't do it. Seems like a stupid law to me.

[jwirr]

21. In the Nebraska Jerry Starkweather murder spree Carole Fugate

was considered guilty because she was there. She was not executed because of her age.

[sinkingfeeling]

29. You mean Charles Starkweather. And he claimed that Caril stabbed Clare Ward and her maid.

He also said it was Caril that shot the salesman (last one murdered).

[jwirr]

30. Oops - my history teacher's name was Jerry Starkweather - sorry

sir.

[sinkingfeeling]

31. Hope he's a former history teacher or you're never going to pass!

[jwirr]

32. Definitely former. A great teacher but probably retired by now. I hope

he is not on DU to see what I did.

[OnTheOtherHand]

12. good question -- I think I can answer it

According to Wikipedia (it wouldn't be a bad idea to check the links): "Davis denied shooting MacPhail, saying he had observed Coles striking Young after a quarrel about beer, but that he had fled before any shots were fired and did not know who had shot the officer."

That would be consistent (it seems to me) with his final statement.

It's conceivable that some of the jurors thought he was culpable even if he didn't fire the shots, but as far as I can tell, the prosecution theory was that eyewitness and ballistic evidence indicated that he had.

[alcibiades_mystery]

15. You are only on the hook for a murder by "being there" if you were involved in a felony

That would be a felony murder charge.

In this case, there were plenty of people around, including Davis, apparently, but that doesn't make him guilty of a murder, since he was not currently involved in a felony that led to the murder. Here are two scenarios:

1) You and a friend decide to rob a liquor store. During the robbery, your friend shoots the clerk, killing him. You were there, but didn't shoot, but you're still on the hook for felony murder, since you were involved in a felony that led to a homicide.

2) You're at a party and a fight breaks out. You are in the vicinity of the fight, and perhaps even shove somebody who gets too close to you. Suddenly, somebody shoots and kills one of the people involved in the fight. Now, you were THERE, but you weren't there committing a felony in collusion with the killer, so you are obviously NOT on the hook for a felony murder charge.

Your OP confuses Situation 1 with Situation 2. The Troy Davis case looks much more like Situation 2. Davis and others were at the location where a homeless man was being harassed/assaulted. When officer McPhail (off duty at the time) tried to intervene, he was shot and killed. Now, one could have been at the scene (indeed, all ten of the major witnesses were at the scene) without being charged if one wasn't involved in a felony in collusion with the shooter. As it stands, the state's charges and theory have Mr. Davis as the actual shooter, rather than a felony murder accomplice, so it doesn't even really matter whether you consider it a Situation 1 case. That's not what he was charged with, nor is that what was presented to the jury.

[fishwax]

19. +1

[dkf]

20. What if Davis was the one who had words and more with Young and then

Coles shot MacPhail using the gun Davis had from the earlier shooting?

Then I can understand the parsing language.

[DrunkenBoat]

28. Young testified that it was Coles who had words with him & actually said "I will shoot you".

[justiceischeap]

23. Thank you for clarifying the situation. Much appreciated.

It just seemed to me he was parsing his statement a bit.

I believe that Georgia should have stayed the execution last night and investigated this further. Particularly if the woman who spoke to Ben Jealous was being truthful (that one of the 'eyewitnesses' confessed to the murder and then threatened to murder her if she told). I agree there's a lot with this case that doesn't sit right but when I heard/read his last statement, it really did seem like he was speaking carefully. Of course, I'm so used to hearing politicians speak so carefully around things that maybe I was hearing things that aren't actually there.

[DrunkenBoat]

26. Being in the Burger King parking lot, the restaurant being still open for business...no crime

[countryjake]

33. Mr. Davis admitted being at the scene, doing the same thing MacPhail tried to do...

he had stepped in to stop the pistol-whipping of a homeless man and then left, according to statements he made many years ago. The only person who has ever admitted to carrying a gun that night was the witness who initially pointed the finger at Troy Davis and subsequently aided the prosecution in obtaining the conviction which sent Mr. Davis to Death Row.

I would guess that the MacPhail family trust our Justice System enough to feel that Troy Davis' original trial was a fair one, but keep in mind that this was also a cop-killing case...the Savannah PD had promised the family that they would catch the killer before Mark MacPhail was in the grave. When Mr. Davis stepped forward the next day, after hearing that he was "wanted" in connection with Officer MacPhail's shooting, the wheels that led to his own murder last night had already begun turning, locked into place by an inept investigation and that promised rush to justice.