Solar energy was supposed to be our big idea.

[dkf]

What the hell happened? Are we so incompetent at fostering new technologies and industries that we let the Chinese run rings around us? If ever there was evidence that we are falling behind this is it.

Maybe it's the truth that Democrats don't know how to do this stuff. You think a Republican administration would have let their pet industry sink like this? Even our version of cronyism aka Solyndra, cant get things going. Loans alone won't float a corporation...they need contracts and demand!

We have shown a lack of execution that is pretty appalling.

[izquierdista]

1. Demand dumbness

I mean that in politicians are dumb about what makes demand tick. Although the other meaning, that voters like dumb candidates, also has some merit.

What did they do to create demand for Solyndra's products? Were there government contracts to retrofit public housing units? Was there a tax credit for installing one of their systems? They can't just loan the company money and expect it to flourish when the Chinese are supporting their companies much more.

[dkf]

4. They do seem to be missing some bit of know how to make it work.

[Kolesar]

2. I lobbied for a "renewable energy portfolio standard" in Ohio. It passed

REPS are in place in over a dozen states. Utility-scale photovoltaics are growing in sales.

Progress is being made. Be happy.

[Pigheaded]

3. Still don't make economic sense

Unless the taxpayers add subsidies.

PH

[n2doc]

9. Taxpayers subsidize Oil, gas, nuclear, roads, autos, etc.

Funny how green energy is supposed to be exempt from this. Oh yeah, the Chinese subsidize their solar and wind industries heavily. They know where the future is in Energy production.

We subsidize death and destruction, our main industries.

[Harmony Blue]

23. Good post

We are a short sighted society now because of the Republicans.

[immoderate]

12. Sunshine is free. Oil is expensive AND subsidized.

Oil prices will rise. Solar panels will get cheaper. What information are you missing?


--imm

[Yo_Mama]

25. Until they do

most households can't afford it.

[immoderate]

26. Even though it would save them money. Funny how that works.

The communities and institutions that are going solar are saving money.

Poor people can't afford to save that money.

--imm

[dkf]

5. Why only utility scale?

What happened to incentives for individuals? Was there any lobbying for that?

[Kolesar]

27. There are huge tax credits for photovoltaics

Google it. Read up!

[Luminous Animal]

6. The Solyndra loan guarantee started in 2007 during the Bush administration.

[Synicus Maximus]

14. Yes but the Bush administration refused to issue the guarantee.

Bush administration officials had started the review of the Solyndra application in May 2008. They were anxious to approve the deal, because members of Congress were complaining that the loan guarantee program, signed into law in 2005, still had not given out its first award. But in the final weeks of the administration, Energy Department officials put the brakes on any loan commitment to Solyndra, partly out of concern that its costs made the price of manufacturing power capacity significantly higher than its competitors.

New york Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/23/us/politics/in-rush-to-assist-solyndra-united-states-missed-warning-signs.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&ref=politics

[Lint Head]

7. There were many failures before cars, airplanes and light blubs became common.

I see this as nothing different other than China is way ahead of us in manufacturing.

[banned from Kos]

8. Solar is doing fine. Check out NanoSolar or BrightSource

or the huge new fields going up in California.

Solyndra was #4 in solar stimulus funds and lost due to the many competitors in the business. Solar may have trouble coming due to lower gas/coal pricing though.

[dkf]

11. We had two failures in a week.

A booming industry wouldn't have experienced that.

[banned from Kos]

16. Actually, failures are common in boom industries

as too many competitors rush in.

Solar is being hurt by austerity though - no question. Europe has cut its subsidies to solar drastically.

http://ivanpahsolar.com/

Link to PG&E project of 392 Megawatts.

[dkf]

18. The point being it's not a booming industry.

[Kolesar]

28. Some documentation would be a nice thing...eom

[diane in sf]

30. It is booming, solar installation increased around 50% last year.

[SpiralHawk]

31. Indeed - solar power is making advances and shining brightly

as the filthy gloom of oil deepens the murk all around...

One flopola doth not the whole story tell.

[me b zola]

10. It is not surprising considering how many tentacles of corporatism have infiltrated the Dem party

Consider Mary Landrieu. She doesn't even try to hide her pimping of big oil. There are also so many others who do the work of the Koch bros but most of them give lip service to promoting green energy, so not so easy for general public to see what is going on.

[lady lib]

13. The Chinese have used predatory pricing so US companies can't compete.

So what happened? How did the Chinese come to completely dominate the solar industry in such a short period of time?
“The Chinese strategy is very clear. They are engaging in predatory financing and they’re trying to drive everybody else out of the market. When you’ve got free money you can out-dump everybody below cost,” Ashley said in an interview with Climate Progress.
http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/09/09/315754/chinese-predatory-pricing-solar/

The article goes on to explain how they've done it.

[dkf]

17. We require American Steel for certain things, American solar is easy enough to stipulate.

[phantom power]

15. China has inherent advantages in manufacturing anything.

They have dirt cheap labor and very few regulations.

PV panels do not get any magic exceptions from this advantage.

[dkf]

19. If we can't figure out how to compete in manufacturing our populace is doomed anyway.

At least the large segment with only high school degrees or less. They might as well figure it out with solar.

[phantom power]

24. I see possible signs of this trend correcting itself

The Chinese working class is understandably getting fed up with eating pollution and being paid shit to make stuff for the rest of the world. They are starting to agitate for higher wages and less pollution.

On the more gloomy side of the equation, our economic collapse is going to continue lowering wages here, and reduce demand for the stuff made in China.

I will stick my neck out and predict that at some point, these trends are going to equalize.

[Yo_Mama]

20. A production advantage doesn't disappear because you want it to

China currently has a huge production advantage for many types of manufacturing due to government subsidies (the Chinese went after the solar market in a big way), very low tax rates for large companies that will bring manufacturing inside the country, a total lack of regulatory oversight and environmental regulation (a big cost for domestic manufacturers in the US), and some on labor.

All of that doesn't disappear just because the technology is green. Germany lost its solar manufacturing base over the last couple of years too.

Although not current, this article best explains Chinese tax incentives:
http://www.chinaorbit.com/china-economy/corporate-tax-china.html

[dkf]

21. "due to government subsidies". Just my point.

[The2ndWheel]

22. "falling behind"

The more I hear this phrase, the less it makes sense to me. Who's race is it? Where is the finish line?

[DainBramaged]

29. The Chinese OWN the technology now, the LARGEST manufacturer of solar panels is Suntech

and a host of other low cost manufacturers there. We don't make shit. As with every other technology, we gave it up for the cheap, and now we have to buy from the one superpower who is stronger economically and may soon be stronger militarily than the US.


We fucked ourselves for short term profits and gave in to the oil lobby.


Suntech – Suntech was the world’s biggest producer of solar panels in 2010 and was one the first companies to set up operations in China.Its example was followed by a host of other Chinese companies.Suntech has been slow to expand compared to the fast growing small companies in China and has lost marketshare to them. It has started to vertically integrate in order to meet the low cost challenge from Trina and Yingli.Suntech makes one of the best quality Solar Panels in China.

Yingli Green Energy - Yingli Green Energy is one of the oldest Chinese companies and is completely integrated from polysilicon.The company has been expanding rapidly and has one of the lowest cost structures in the industry. Yingli Green Energy has been sponsoring Football in Europe and has started a new line of high efficiency “Panda” Solar Panels. Yingli is the second biggest producer of Solar Panels in China.

Trina Solar – Trina Solar is one of the lowest cost manufacturers of Solar Panels in the World right now and also sells it at a very low price. This is the reason that the company in a span of few short years has managed to acquire a substantial global marketshare. The prices the solar panels being sold are around $340 per 200 watt module.Trina Solar.Like Yingli and Suntech,Trina Solar Panels are one the best quality in China.

Hanwha Solar One - The Company which was recently acquired by South Korean Chemicals Giant Hanwha also makes one of the cheapest panels and sells it a very low price. The quality is also quite good and with strong parentage behind it, the solar panels made by the company. Again like Trina Solar, it has very low cost Chinese manufacturing capacity. The company was earlier known as Solarfun.

Canadian Solar – The Company sells a wide variety of solar panels unlike other producers.The Solar Panel Selling Price is also quite cheap. The Company is headquartered in Canada with factories in China and Ontario. Canadian Solar is the 5th biggest producer of Solar Panels in China.

Jinko Solar – Jinko Solar has shown the fastest growth rates in the Chinese Solar Panel Industry. The company is expanding again to become one of the Top 5 Solar Panel Producers in China. Jinko Solar like Trina and Yingli is vertically integrated and has one of the lowest cost solar panel production process.

Solarworld - Solarworld is the Biggest German producer of solar panels, the company is one of the few to still have operations in Europe and USA. The company has been battered by low cost competition. However Solarworld is strongly expanding in USA as growth slows down in Germany. Solarworld is also entering the polysilicon sector through a JV with Qatar.Only Western company not to have a major factory in Asia.

First Solar – First Solar is the only Solar Thin Film Manufacturer in the world and a benchmark for other thin film companies thinking of making it big. The company was promoted by Wal-Mart promoters and has seen remarkable growth in the last few.This US based company uses Cadmium Tellurium (Cd-Te) Technology and is the lowest cost panel producer in the world today if you don’t include any penalty for low efficiency. Even if you penalize the Cd-Te Technology for its lower efficiency vis-a-vis the higher efficiency crystalline technology, First Solar is clearly the leader with a core cost of 74c/watt. The company has a roadmap of reducing the cost to 52c/watt by 2014 and given its track record it seems quite achievable. There is little doubt about First Solar’s ability to survive and flourish due to its massive first mover advantage.

http://solarpowerpanels.ws/solar-panels/biggest-solar-panel-manufacturers-in-the-world