Could someone help me craft a response, please? LGBT issue

[ashling]

I teach government online at a local community college. We are in the middle of discussions about civil rights. I have split the class into groups and am responding to a post about LGBT issues. I am not gay myself, but my little brother was gay. I say that just to emphasize that I am serious about the issues with which I need assistance.

I am not going to paste the student's post, but suffice it to say that he feels that being homosexual is a choice. I always tell students that they must be able to support positions that they take. I posted that he would need to support his statement. His response was just further opinion that no one is born to be anything, yada, yada, yada. Obviously this is not the type of support I require, though I realized that it was as much as I was going to get.

My challenge is to craft a response telling him that and at the same time providing support for the other side, but something substantive and - what a concept - based on facts. However, I need a little help here.

I appreciate your assistance.

I'm sorry, I have to go now before I start crying about losing my brother. I always do that when this comes up.

[Cronus Protagonist]

1. If you want a response crafted, post the item to which we have to respond

..and I'm sure we'll get it done for you.

[Morning Dew]

2. Perhaps those in his group

could all write a little piece on how they chose to be straight.

What did that involve? Personal reflection - discussions with friends and family?

How long did it take to decide to be straight rather than gay?

Did they maybe think that being trans might be a good option for them?

[justiceischeap]

10. Exactly, ask about his choice to be straight

I will agree with him to some extent. ANYONE, can choose to sleep with someone of the same/opposite gender (depending how they're wired) but it doesn't mean that's who they are. There's a big difference. So, technically, he is correct, I could choose to sleep with a man but nothing is going to make me enjoy it or for it to feel right.

I would certainly ask why he hasn't chosen to sleep with someone of the same sex if it's all such a big choice. He could choose to sleep with someone of the same gender but I doubt he'd get much out of it.

[Bigmack]

3. Considering what we already know about genes...

and what we're finding out now....

You might tell your student that he's right. Everything in life is a choice.

Which means that we have to choose our grandparents very carefully.

[uppityperson]

4. If "no one is born anything", then when did he chose to be male? Good luck

and I hope he gets his mind opened to the fact that yes, there are certain innate traits.

[Nye Bevan]

5. A 2001 study of twins suggests a strong genetic component:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation

[ashling]

6. Thank you.

I have already used those other arguments. This is what I was looking for

[Shagbark Hickory]

7. There is misunderstanding about a particular lifestyle vs. sexual desire.

All lifestyles are choices IMO, sexual preference is not.
It could be that your student is interpreting being gay just as a particular lifestyle and nothing more than that.

The clothes someone wears, the people they hang out with or the activites they enjoy in their spare time isn't what makes someone gay or straight.


I'm not a big fan of labels.

[uppityperson]

11. What you are is different from what how you act? I was born with blonde hair, chose to dye it?

Born with a sexual orientation, whether or not I chose to ever have sex and with whom is my choice?

Too many confuse a lifestyle with orientation. And, as we all know, there is no "lifestyle" based on orientation. Or, usually, other innate quality. Though some places in the world it is moreso, like cultures that demand women not be seen or heard.

By the way Shagbark, it is sexual "orientation" not "preference" as the second implies choice and the first is the innate quality.

"The clothes someone wears, the people they hang out with or the activites they enjoy in their spare time isn't what makes someone gay or straight. " while true can also be seen the other way around. I am agreeing and expanding here. Sexual orientation isn't what makes someone wear certain clothes. For instance, women of all orientations often wear denim jeans. Yes, there are "stereotypical" costumes, but it doesn't follow that someone of a certain orientation wears them.

[Shagbark Hickory]

12. I don't understand.

Your post comes across as being defensive yet I gather we're both on the same team.

I didn't say anything about how people act. But some people, like the OP's student, obviously thinks acting or looking a particular way is all there is to being a homosexual.
Behavior and looks can be changed. Sexual ORIENTATION can't be.

[uppityperson]

13. Not meaning to be defensive, just writing quickly.

I was taking what you wrote and simply adding on, writing on quickly, perhaps not clearly.

Behavior and looks can be changed, sexual orientation can't.

[Shagbark Hickory]

14. OK. I was a little worried that some people my take my comment the wrong way.

[Rabblevox]

8. Ask the student if he thinks he has a choice about being right or left-handed.

He is free to pick up the pencil with either hand, and it's been decades since teachers or parents have tried to force students to use their right hand. And yet one will feel natural to him, the other will not. Even though life is far easier for righties than lefties, if he's a lefty, he will know it, and there is no point fighting it.

Sexual orientation works much the same way.

ps. dammit, you got me crying about losing my baby brother.

pps. I am both gay and left-handed.

[w8liftinglady]

9. Here's an article

http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/born-gay

For the record, I was gay since I first became aware of sexuality.It was my choice to marry a man and have three sons. It didn't change the fact that I am very bisexual.

[ashling]

15. Thank you all

I have already responded as I needed to get this out there. I will bookmark this thread for further use when this comes up again. I just wanted to give him somethin to think about in an appropriate way. Here is what I wrote:

First of all, thank you for responding to my post.
I am not trying to be flippant or sanctimonious here, but asking you to seriously think about this.
I hear you saying that civil rights deals only with the denial of rights to an a) identifiable group in which 2) the members of the group have no choice but to be members of that group. Is a denial of rights to a group or discrimination against members of a group acceptable as long as the members of that group could decide to leave that group?

I am going to assume from your post that you are heterosexual. Were you born heterosexual, or was that merely a choice you made? If so, why not choose to be homosexual? Perhaps we should choose our grandparents more carefully. Understand that I am not trying to be flippant or make light of your opinions, which I am sure are sincerely held. I just want you to think critically about this issue from different points of view.

Additionally, biology and sexual orientation is the subject of research into the role of biology in the development of human sexual orientation. No simple, single cause for sexual orientation has been conclusively demonstrated, but research suggests that it is by a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences,<1> with biological factors involving a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment.<2> Biological factors which may be related to the development of a heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual or asexual orientation include genes, prenatal hormones, and brain structure. These are only two of the many studies on the subject.
.
Frankowski BL; American Academy of Pediatrics Committee on Adolescence (June 2004). "Sexual orientation and adolescents". Pediatrics 113 (6): 1827–32. doi:10.1542/peds.113.6.1827. PMID 15173519.
Royal College of Psychiatrists: Submission to the Church of England’s Listening Exercise on Human Sexuality.


I am not a biologist and claim no special knowledge in this area. Neither am I advocating for any particular study or explanation. Admittedly there are also scholars and scientists who find fault with some of these studies. However, in light of the scholarly and anecdotal evidence which is contra to your stated opinion, I think it behooves you to keep an open mind on the subject.