#OccupyWallStreet Is More Than a Hashtag - It's Revolution in Formation

[nadinbrzezinski]

A lot of what you've probably seen or read about the #occupywallstreet action is wrong, especially if you're getting it on the Internet. The action started as an idea posted online and word about it then spread and is still spreading, online. But what makes it really matter now is precisely that it is happening offline, in a physical, public space, live and in person. That's where the occupiers are assembling the rudiments of a movement.

At the center of occupied Liberty Plaza, a dozen or so huddle around computers in the media area, managing a makeshift Internet hotspot, a humming generator and the (theoretically) 24-hour livestream. They can edit and post videos of arrests in no time flat, then bombard Twitter until they're viral. But for those looking to understand even the basic facts about what is actually going on - before September 17 and since - the Internet has been as much a source of confusion as it is anything else.

For someone who has been following this movement in gestation as well as implementation, it's painfully easy to see which news articles take their bearing entirely from a few Google searches. Some reporters come to Liberty Plaza looking for Adbusters staff, or US Day of Rage members, or conspiratorial Obama supporters, or hackers from Anonymous. They're briefly disappointed to find none of the above. Instead, it's a bunch of people - from round-the-clock revolutionaries, to curious tourists, to retirees, to zealous students - spending most of their time in long meetings about supplying food, conducting marches, dividing up the plaza's limited space and what exactly they're there to do and why. And that's the point. More than demanding any particular policy proposal, the occupation is reminding Wall Street what real democracy looks like: a discussion among people, not a contest of money.

http://www.truth-out.org/occupywallstreet-more-hashtag-its-revolution-formation/1316784846

[MineralMan]

1. How many are there today?

Are they readily visible to anyone who is on Wall St.?

[Admiral Loinpresser]

5. I watched the streaming feed today and the group

was noticeably bigger. A cop with a bull horn ordered them to disperse because the pedestrian traffic could not flow through. First time I've seen that (although it could have happened on day 1 because they had about two thousand).

Tomorrow will be very important. I hope they have 4-5 thousand.

[pintobean]

6. BBC says threy're down to about 50

They're occupying a privately owned park a few blocks away - with the park owner's permission.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15031358

[MineralMan]

9. OK, thanks.

Too bad.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

13. The BBC did not check its facts.

Estimating the number at 50 is bogus. The numbers fluctuate with the weather and with the daily workings of the agenda. But it is clearly in the hundreds from inspection of the live feed this morning. The article was unprofessionally snarky.

[MineralMan]

18. And the people going and coming from the buildings on Wall Street

number in the many thousands. Do you not see that a small group of people being kept away from the area is ineffective?

[Admiral Loinpresser]

47. We have not yet occupied Wall Street.

But as long as it keeps growing, why should it be labeled ineffective?

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. SOP, add a zero to any media estimate

The Guardian seems to be the glaring exception.

[pintobean]

24. The reporter is in New York

and apparently, at the scene. Maybe this explains the difference of being there and watching the live stream:
"The parading demonstrators are flanked by a small army of police officers, tourists, members of the media, and people who are trying to get to work."

[MineralMan]

29. I saw that, too. I wonder sometimes if accidental nearby people

are being counted in this. Last time I was in NYC and on Wall Street, the pedestrian traffic was pretty heavy. Of course, that was around lunch time, so that's to be expected, but how do you tell the protesters from everyone else and get an accurate count?

[Admiral Loinpresser]

43. I link to an informative article, as opposed to this BBC drivel.

A lot of what you've probably seen or read about the #occupywallstreet action is wrong, especially if you're getting it on the Internet...

For someone who has been following this movement in gestation as well as implementation, it's painfully easy to see which news articles take their bearing entirely from a few Google searches. Some reporters come to Liberty Plaza looking for Adbusters staff, or US Day of Rage members, or conspiratorial Obama supporters, or hackers from Anonymous. They're briefly disappointed to find none of the above. Instead, it's a bunch of people - from round-the-clock revolutionaries, to curious tourists, to retirees, to zealous students - spending most of their time in long meetings about supplying food, conducting marches, dividing up the plaza's limited space and what exactly they're there to do and why. And that's the point. More than demanding any particular policy proposal, the occupation is reminding Wall Street what real democracy looks like: a discussion among people, not a contest of money.

http://www.truth-out.org/occupywallstreet-more-hashtag-its-revolution-formation/1316784846

As for your outlier article:

With attention focused sharply on the financial markets and many US citizens suffering hardships undreamed of in the 1980s and 1990s, campaigners thought they could pull in thousands to join them but although the campaign - broadly known as "Occupy Wall Street" - has attracted people from thousands of miles away, only about 50 people are currently involved.

First, the wording is bad. Presumably this "journalist" meant to say is that currently only about 50 people sleep in the park. Based on the quality of the rest of the article, why should I believe any assertion of fact? I have been involved in demonstrations of about 50 people. What I saw this morning was a group of people clearly more than 50 people. And they were clearly separated from a group of hundreds of onlookers and cops. If there had been 50, why would a cop use a bullhorn ordering them to disperse? It makes neither strategic (Bloomberg wants to intimidate them without drawing press attention) nor practical sense. A crowd of 50 would be virtually unnoticeable with the normal pedestrian traffic of hundreds/thousands. They have averaged probably 5 arrests per day over the last week. The idea that a group of 50 could sustain that and provide logistical support for the arrested and carry on the ordinary camp functions is absurd, straight up. There is medical, food, communication/information and other logistical support going on continually. The reporter's estimate is not credible.

Actually thousands, like me, are involved whether in NYC, San Francisco, Chicago or overseas. If they have over two thousand on the ground at noon tomorrow (the next big event), then the absurdity of this lazy, incompetent reporter will be swept away. Let's talk tomorrow.

[pintobean]

50. Try the OP's newer thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1993417&mesg_id=1993417

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. Conies again

Aren't they just cute?

[Admiral Loinpresser]

54. I take it your point is the use of "dozens."

That's within reason. If they are describing a dynamic number of those sleeping in the park (e.g. 150-200), it's OK to describe the number as "dozens." But to say 50 are involved-utter nonsense. If that were true, the reporter could count an exact amount of persons at night. Fifty people isn't very many.

[sabrina 1]

58. Huge crowds there today. And buses and car pools are

organizing across the country to bring people every week. 27 other US cities are now organizing similar protests.

Right now, police are arresting people, targeting the media team.

But the numbers have grown and Unions have been in touch with them offering their support.

This is not meant to be a one day, huge demonstration. It is a slow, growing movement. And so far, has been a huge success, despite the attempts to censor it (Yahoo AND Twitter and of course the silence of the MSM). It doesn't matter, they anticipated all of this.

Today they were awe-inspiring. Even some of the police have told them 'we agree with you'.

[tritsofme]

2. The revolution begins in 24 business hours. nt

[leftstreet]

3. What are their demands? n/t

[brooklynite]

7. And there in lies the problem...

This is the fifth communiqué from the 99 percent. We are occupying Wall Street.

On September 21st, 2011, Troy Davis, an innocent man, was murdered by the state of Georgia. Troy Davis was one of the 99 percent.

Ending capital punishment is our one demand.

On September 21st, 2011, the richest 400 Americans owned more wealth than half of the country's population.

Ending wealth inequality is our one demand.

On September 21st, 2011, four of our members were arrested on baseless charges.

Ending police intimidation is our one demand.

On September 21st, 2011, we determined that Yahoo lied about occupywallst.org being in spam filters.

Ending corporate censorship is our one demand.

On September 21st, 2011, roughly eighty percent of Americans thought the country was on the wrong track.

Ending the modern gilded age is our one demand.

On September 21st, 2011, roughly 15% of Americans approved of the job Congress was doing.

Ending political corruption is our one demand.

On September 21st, 2011, roughly one sixth of Americans did not have work.

Ending joblessness is our one demand.

On September 21st, 2011, roughly one sixth of America lived in poverty.

Ending poverty is our one demand.

On September 21st, 2011, roughly fifty million Americans were without health insurance.

Ending health-profiteering is our one demand.

On September 21st, 2011, America had military bases in around one hundred and thirty out of one hundred and sixty-five countries.

Ending American imperialism is our one demand.

On September 21st, 2011, America was at war with the world.

Ending war is our one demand.

https://occupywallst.org/

Rather than stick to a single financial thread, they're all over the map on vaguely progressive concerns (actually surprised that environment didn't make it in). They also have no specific demands to the identified issues. "Ending Poverty"? Nobody would argue with that, but what is their approach that they want action taken on?

I understand that this is a "participatory democrary, concensus-driven" process. But, the longer it takes to focus on a specific issue and a specific solution, the harder it will be to get non-political activist audiences to pay attention.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Alas historically that is how they start

Lordy.

By the way I expect the unrec, so go ahead.

[MineralMan]

12. Is it? I'm not so sure, really.

So far, this whole thing has seemed remarkably ineffective. First, they started on a weekend, when nobody is on Wall Street but tourists. Then, when the work week began, the numbers shrank. It's not Egypt, certainly. It's not even that noticeable. Too bad, too.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. I should not do this

Try larger picture and trends. This is not WS. This is part of a trend. Start in the Midwest.

Trends and larger picture...

Of course maybe the Jackerie would be best...now talk of unfocused rage.

[MineralMan]

17. Yes, yes. You see a trend that nobody else sees who matters.

Are you enraged? Are you out in the street?

I do see the large picture, thanks.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MineralMan]

23. No personal attack was made...only commentary.

Plus a couple of questions for you. I don't suck eggs, either. Raw eggs are a health hazard.

Wisconsin was a real mass protest. It was very effective. It was tightly focused and on a specific point. What is happening on Wall Street is unfocused and most of the signs I've seen had nothing to do with financial matters at all. A lot of mask-wearing and that sort of thing, but there was no central message coming from this group at all. Wisconsin was a very different thing. And, it worked. Wisconsin now has two new Democratic state senators than it did before. Something actually came from the Wisconsin demonstrations. I can't imagine anything coming from this Wall Street event.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. The fallacy in question is...

Argumentum Ad Hominen and it is a personal attack as well as a logical fallacy...have a good day

Oh and yes it is nice and sunny out there... That is the extent of acknowledgment you will get from me.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

45. I agree, it was Ad Hominem.

They don't like it that these people are combating the insanity rampant in the USA. We don't need them. Our ranks are growing every day. Let's hope OWS transcends the corporate blackout. If not, the 1% will continue winning.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

16. I wish it was more orderly,

Like Congress. ;-)

[Fire Walk With Me]

22. Everything is wrong. Everything must change. That should be obvious. I love their style on this...

[yawnmaster]

26. Might as well just make a demand for utopia. Focus is what is needed. eom

[tama]

39. Perhaps

those on the ground are now concentrating on practicing participatory democracy instead of demanding that TPTB practice it for them? Teaching democracy by exeplary learning process instead of preaching - and expecting somebody else to do it for them - for us?

We are the ones we have been waiting for. Who else but us? Inclusive us, none excluded.

[swilton]

56. Keep in mind October 6 is coming

that protest is much more organized and would provide the lacking structure - if the two can combine??!!

[Leopolds Ghost]

57. Where's it supposed to happen? NY?

[Leopolds Ghost]

60. Never mind, I forgot about the website. It's in DC

http://october2011.org/

I'm used to things happening in DC, although frankly the protest culture here is lousy. I guess it's worse everywhere else.

[MineralMan]

10. It seemed to me like there were multiple demands, depending

on who was carrying the sign. Very unstructured, this protest. Freeing Pvt. Manning seemed to be one of the demands, although I'm not certain what that has to do with Wall Street. It's no wonder the people who aren't involved are confused. It's not Egypt, that's for sure.

[Leopolds Ghost]

4. Is this any relation to the October 11 protest?

Sorry, I am out of the loop.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. No and yes

Technically it is not connected, but all these things are...they reflect the social pressures

At the risk of lock or move Israel fits here. You think we are cynical? The Israelis are just as bad or worst... Something happened on the way to the knessett, and currently one third of the population is in the streets protesting social conditions. Some even include Jews and Arabs protesting together. Details on my blog.

The other more American example is the very early 1960's, like 1960 or so.

[Leopolds Ghost]

33. Good for them.

What's your opinion on the UN issue, BTW? I have not been keeping track of such things... too depressed.

My own town has gotten less and less politically active as things get worse and worse.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Over pm or we guarantee lock

[rdking647]

14. except they arent occupying wall street

[MineralMan]

19. You are correct. The people on Wall Street aren't even aware

anything is happening. I'm afraid this has petered out without really ever having petered in.

[Coexist]

25. yes, they are.. by the police presence alone

and they march down wall street every day.. hand out flyers

[MineralMan]

27. Ah, I see. OK, then.

Well, I guess that's good. Do the protesters outnumber the police now, like they did on the weekend?

New Yorkers are used to seeing the police. NYPD is forever setting up and taking down barricades in the city. People handing out flyers are also a commonplace in NYC.

[pintobean]

36. Party in the park

with daily marches and hand billing. If they stop that, the supply of free food drys up. It'll be back to dumpster diving.

[MineralMan]

38. I like their spirit. However, I can't see that there's going to be

any real impact from this. NYC's a tough place to protest. Too many people who are looking straight ahead to avoid running into the person in front of them, and all of them are headed somewhere and hoping not to be late. The financial district is a zoo a lot of the time with pedestrians. I doubt that most notice anything that's going on around them.

At least in DC, there are big public spaces near where things are happening. That makes it relatively easy to assemble a large group that can't be missed. Not so much in NYC.

[Leopolds Ghost]

59. Wow, cynical much?

[blindpig]

28. Stranger things have happened...

..so I have been admonished.

When there ain't nothing happening anything is something.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. One of my teachers

Was a student activist at one time, put it this way...

The least media attention, the more threat you are perceived as...

Why labor had to have it's own media starting in the 1820s. And why hand outs and sit ins were so critical in the '60s.

[Robb]

41. With respect to your teacher, that's old school.

It's much easier to discredit a movement nowadays by giving them lots and lots of air time -- and making sure you paint them in the worst possible light as often as possible.

We'll see ten hours of footage of the craziest, zero interviews with the most thoughtful. Helps, of course, to own the media.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Remember they tried that in WI

Nah the media is doing what they do best. Mostly ignoring it. Remember this?



Even that was mostly ignored.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

46. Worth a thousand words. n/t

n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. Context is the 2003 antiwar demonstrations

It succeeded, people are now convinced it ain't worth it.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

49. I remember watching it on CSPAN.

And largely ignored by corporate media.

[proud patriot]

32. I really hope it grows

[Fire Walk With Me]

35. How much better to use your time and energy to do something, anything positive

for those out there doing something, anything positive.

Someone once said something like "United we stand..." :shrug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. Every social movement had it's detractors

Every one. So to see them here is not an aberration...in fact it is par for the franking course. If we didn't, it not be a serious one.

Thanks

:hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Well when this is mostly ignored

I get the cynicism.

[yawnmaster]

52. Just to be clear, that image is from the April 2006 anti-war protest in New York...

That protest had a very clear message and over a hundred thousand showed up.
The unclear message of the current 2011 Wall street protesters gathers much less.

And I agree, if a protest of thousands (protesting the war in Iraq) is ignored, what attention will a few hundred get by the media?


Here is a link to the story for the large NY protest in the picture posted.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10704049/ns/us_news-life/t/thousands-anti-war-protesters-march-nyc/


edited to make clear an agreement

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. Just to be clear it was mostly on c-span

But whatever.

[malaise]

44. Excellent post

The longest journey belongs with a single step

[swilton]

55. Keep in mind that the October 6 2011

event/protest/demonstration is on the horizon to follow - contribute to this.... It seems to be much more organized and may bring structure if needed for exploitation...

Should be an exciting and interesting process!