Uh Oh, President Clinton is praising some charters at Education Nation Forum.

[Pisces]

I'm sure he will be roundly criticized on this board but what he said made sense to me. I hope everyone is watching. He also stated we need national curriculum not state based curriculum.

[elleng]

1. Listening to him speak at a Denver H.S. now.

[leftstreet]

2. What did he say that made sense to you?

[Pisces]

4. That we have trouble adopting things that obviously work in other countries. That students need

music and art to learn math. That we need PE with the obesity problem, that some charters are good, that charters need more oversight. It isn't all or nothing. On this board people are crucified for
entertaining the idea of a good charter. The word charter itself garners visceral responses.

[leftstreet]

5. No kidding. We STILL don't have single payer healthcare

Hard time adopting anything decent

[EFerrari]

8. In fact, we don't need music and art to learn math.

And we don't need PE because of obesity, we need it for health regardless of weight.

This is part of the pattern. People like Clinton who push charter schools are completely incoherent in their arguments because they know nada about education and they care even less about it.

[Pisces]

9. Wow, that is a ridiculous statement. Pres. Clinton cares nothing about education????

There are many studies that dispute what you are saying. Music and learning to read music has been linked to math. Art and using that part of the creative brain has also been shown to help children in the learning process. Here is an excerpt from a music teacher:



Children have a much easier time learning how to associate specific sounds with emotions/life events and therefore effectively classify them. With repetition, eventually this information gets processed into their long term memory. Adults need to approach this subject by breaking things into tiny pieces and analyzing each element separately, eventually relating them back to the whole. Children can more effectively "hear the big picture," therefore bypassing the need for complex individual analysis. They can skip this entire tedious step. Pretty cool.



From the K through 6th grade group, the grade level that struggles the least? Guess what...! It is KINDERGARTEN. These little people are able to relatively quickly memorize sound structures, associate these sound clusters with emotions/memories and eventually correctly identify them. It is beautiful to observe the process.



In a culture that too often hears with its eyes, (the eyes are so easily fooled) I feel like I am making a difference.


But I guess this is gobbledy gook to to you.

[EFerrari]

12. That something is "linked" to math is not equal to being necessary to math learning.

And no, it's not gobbledy gook to me because I am a teacher but it isn't accurate, something I value highly as a teacher, an artist and as a musician.

[KamaAina]

18. Of course some charters are good

just like some traditional public schools are good.

Charters were originally intended to supplement, not supplant, public schools. A good example is in Hawai'i where about half of the charters offer a Hawaiian language and cultural curriculum not avialble elsewhere.

[Pisces]

25. Exactly. No one is advocating that charters supplant public schools. However on this board

you are attacked if you suggest that this plan could work.

[KamaAina]

26. No one?

Not Arne, who keeps lavishing praise on New Orleans, where charters have basically done just that since Katrina?

[Whisp]

21. music and art are very important for learning development

anyone who disagrees needs to have a check up of some sort.

I am glad that Obama supports these things

[dkf]

3. And he said that some people get fixed on keeping their present benefits.

And that is when things get out of whack. We need to be in the future, not in the present.

[Angry Dragon]

11. 'present benefits'

is he willing to reduce is lifetime pension and medical benefits??
it is easy for him to talk about giving up things
Let him go first

[dkf]

13. But you have to agree...sacrificing now for a better future isn't our national preoccupation.

He could probably do without public benefits. He made enough money.

[Angry Dragon]

15. You just agreed with my arguement

He is worth millions but will not give up anything
but he goes around telling teachers they need to cut their wages
Politicians go around and say public workers make too much and
do not cut their pay nor benefits

I know of only two politicians that have given up anything
The gov of Maryland took furlough days just like he asked the sate workers
A rep or sen in congress gives his pay to charity because he is worth millions

It is one thing to ask some to give up vs telling everyone they need to give up something
How much more should the bottom give up to please the top?? That is really the question

[dkf]

22. He gets federal funds. Teacher and state worker salaries come from the states.

If anything we should lower federal taxes and increase state taxes. I never understood why I pay more federal taxes when my day to day life is benefitted more by state and city efforts.

[EFerrari]

6. The Clintons fully back the privatizing of ed in Haiti

where they are the de facto albeit largely absent government. We shouldn't expect better.

Why we still have people here defending the destruction of our school system will always be a mystery to me. None of this charter movement is about bettering schools. It's a business opportunity and that's all it is. Of course Bill Clinton praises it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. Clinton always was, and still is, a corporate lapdog.

[bigwillq]

20. Indeed.

:thumbsup:

[dembotoz]

24. yep

[MadHound]

10. Did he say anything about the one thing that all top flight public school systems have in common?

Namely paying teachers the equivalent of what we pay doctors and lawyers? Fully funding each and every school?

[Pisces]

17. As a matter of fact he did. He mentioned that in other countries this is a top profession and highly

paid and sought after jobs.

[DrunkenBoat]

23. That line is a Trojan Horse.

[LynneSin]

14. There are some charter schools that do work. I am not 100% against them

What I am is 100% for stronger regulation.

My local school district works with several charter schools including Wilmington Charter (one of the top HS in the country), Cab Calloway (school for musically gifted) and I know there is a Science & Tech one too. I know the first 2 because my best friend's kid applied to both. A talented middle school girl who gets straigth A's, the charter schools are an opportunity to get a head start in HS. (she ultimately picked Cab). From what I read kids can pick one of 3-4 High Schools in the district or one of these charter schools. BTW Wilmington Charter's academic standards rivals that of any private non-religious school and it's free to any child that meets the requirements (usually both test, academic record, school record and interview).

But for every great charter school in this country there are usually 2-3 really poorly run Charter Schools that are more for profiteering private sector groups with taxpayer dollars and ultimately creating students poorly prepared for life after high school.

On paper Charter Schools are a good idea, but they really do need to rehab the system and provide higher standards for running a charter school.

[Pisces]

16. I agree with you. More regulation is needed. The examples you give are a good reasons to have

charters. I do not we should abolish all charters and I think that is what President Clinton was saying.

[DrunkenBoat]

19. Carrying water for the hedge fund/Bill Gates deformers. Expected nothing less of him.

I don't give a rip what Bill "welfare reform/telecom "reform"/NAFTA" Clinton thinks about anything.