"Progressive"? No: I'm a Fucking LIBERAL!

[Hoosier Daddy]

We have allowed the goddam wingnuts to define us for far too long! Are any of them backing off "conservative"? Hell no! They embrace and celebrate it!

"Liberal" is NOT a dirty word, and I am sick and FUCKING tired of this habit of ours to abandon labels we OUGHT TO BE PROUD OF in the hope Middle America will agree with us. Well guess what? Middle America already agrees with us! WE ARE THE FUCKING MAJORITY!!!!!

:rant:

[gratuitous]

1. I have made up my mind

Next year, when I'm sitting on a certain committee for my denomination, I will not shy away from the word "liberal."

[Hoosier Daddy]

29. Righteous!

Tes.Ti.Fy.

[roguevalley]

34. i had it out with my brother yesterday over this. He says liberal

like he's smelling poo. I told him to stuff it, I'm a FUCKING LIBERAL and you and your side can stuff it up your ass. Then he said our family, all of them were FDR dems and 'the democrat party hasn't been FDR dems in years' like he missed it. THen he said I love ya anyway. I told him I loved him too, don't forget it and don't push your con shit on me. I"M A FUCKING LIBERAL! GET OVER IT!

It rather ended well because I could feel his energy pulling back. :-D What an ordeal this all is now. Push back. it will ASTOUND them.

[blank space]

120. Why not just ask him quite simply what he would prefer to be

a liberal open minded person with progressive regarding other people, solutions to problems and society, or a regressive close minded person who is closed to any new ideas, shuns anyone who does not reflect themselves and believes society should never change or evolve ?

Progressive vs Regressive ?
Liberal vs Conservative ?

The name says it all.

[connecticut yankee]

107. I'm a

Flaming Bleeding-Heart Knee-Jerk Liberal and proud of it!

[ananda]

2. Thank you!

I'm a radical liberal and I will never be a pastel cosmeticized "progressive."

[Hoosier Daddy]

30. We HAVE to bring the Fire in Belly!

Who the fuck else will?

[roguevalley]

35. you and me too. I am a radical far left liberal and have been since

before I was born.

[kentuck]

3. Good for you.

:-)

In the 40's and 50's, people said the same thing about "progressives".

[11 Bravo]

4. I'm in (and have been for years)!

[auntpurl]

5. But how do you really feel?

:)

[RC]

6. That's the way I describe myself - Liberal.

[Autumn]

7. Fucking LIBERAL right here.

any one who doesn't like it can kiss my :dem: after they brush their teeth. And I sure as hell don't mind the term "Progressive" I am quite proud of those terms.
And if I get called a bleeding heart Liberal, that's a fucking bonus

[dana_b]

15. a fucking LIBERAL...

or a FUCKING liberal! I'll take either. :)

[Hoosier Daddy]

51. Hey, I have two kids

Fucking liberal has a double meaning for me! :evilgrin:

[Hoosier Daddy]

52. Uh, by which I mean...

That children are the result of fucking.

[petronius]

67. ...

:spray:

I'm sure we all took your meaning, but clarification is never a bad idea...

(As for the thread topic: I generally call myself a liberal, but sometimes toss in a progressive when I feel a need for some variety. I really have no interest in trying to discriminate between the two terms.)

[awoke_in_2003]

114. and if I want to hug trees...

and they don't like it, they can kiss my ass, too.

[auntpurl]

8. It's not a bad word here in London.

Here, if you express views that are too conservative, (conservative by European standards, which would still be solidly Democratic in 2011 US) you get the hairy eyeball. It's nice. :)

[Enthusiast]

136. I would like to import some of that thinking to Ohio.

[Jamastiene]

9. K & Fucking R

I could not agree more.

[wakemewhenitsover]

10. Rock on

:headbang:

[mailman82]

11. My Daughter

Calls me a Bleeding Heart Liberal. I wear it proudly and never back down!

[Hoosier Daddy]

48. My daughter says the same

And then I explain how (gasp!) LIBERAL policies made it easier for her to go to college!

[awoke_in_2003]

115. and have the ability...

to make private medical decisions with her doctor, including reproductive rights.

[Shagbark Hickory]

12. Personally, I think we should switch labels with them. They aren't for conserving anything.

Me on the other hand, I'm all about conserving.
Conserving lives, conserving energy, conserving the enironment, conserving money, conserving jobs.

They're not for any of those. They're more "liberal" with spending on endless wars and tax cuts for people and corporations that don't need it. They're so "liberal" and lax when it comes to regulation. They're blase about the environment. And we all know their healthcare plan is to die quickly. Not exactly about conserving lives there. They don't seem to mind shedding jobs liberally.

[dana_b]

20. very good points n/t

[newspeak]

93. yeah, that's what I've been saying for years

exactly what have they conserved? Sure hasn't been the treasury or the environment or people's pensions. They've been doing the old "make investments with my friends" for years or finding anyway around what little regulations we've got left. Reagan didn't conserve oil or energy, as soon as he was elected up the speed limit and take off the solar panels. And as little boots snickered while stating more than once he hit the trifecta, they sure aren't into conserving SS.

[Hoosier Daddy]

99. Teddy Roosevelt in '12!

:P :rofl:

[Sheepshank]

87. OTOH, we are for PROGRESS, moving forward, willing to embrace change, wanting to forward agendas

I am first a foremost a liberal...but definitely one that looks toward progressing the liberal agenda. I will NEVER be caught saying "I want my country back to...." Never. That's not progress that's regression.

Liberal and Progressive terms are too closely intertwined for me to be upset at being labelled either one. I will always relate to both terms with pride.

[patrice]

131. bingo! Those fuckers are NOT conserve -ative & that should be said loud & often & we should say how

we ARE conserve -ative, conserving WHAT REAL VALUE (in the Adam Smith sense of that economic term) + HOW, rationally, accountability, methodologically HOW we go about conserving Real Value (and incidentally saving some of their fucking fiat currency in the process).

[Enthusiast]

137. They aren't about conserving shit.

They want to use up every single last natural resource this very minute.

[Deep13]

142. They are right wing radicals.

You are right. There is nothing conservative about them.

[orpupilofnature57]

13. Yep

Progressing what cooperation with people diametrically opposed to Liberal ideals,doesn't that Nullify the very object of our endeavor?

[lamp_shade]

14. So am I... and damn proud of it.

:toast:

[RKP5637]

16. K&R!!! n/t

[banned from Kos]

17. Me too! There is a difference though - Liberals support gun rights

progressives want gun bans.

But good rant!

[Bjorn Against]

37. Gun rights have nothing to do with it

Dianne Finestein probably fits the definition of liberal but she is certainly no progressive, she supports gun bans. Progressives are largely split on the details of gun control, but very few would call for outright gun bans. It is absolutely false to say that gun control is what differentiates progressives from other liberals, progressives may not necessarily like guns but that does not mean there is a big push for gun bans in the progressive community.

[Major Nikon]

62. You should go back to whomever you pay to do your thinking and ask for a refund

Just sayin'

[RegieRocker]

86. Yes you are right. A liberal is a democrat. The anti gun meme has

driven many liberals from the party. On the news last night "the liberal laws regarding protecting life and property in Missouri allows home owner to shoot and kill intruder without breaking any laws". Crime is going down. Once they learn they can end up dead, the truly hardened criminals will be the only ones to attempt break ins. Don't part attention to fools rhetoric.

[salin]

91. as defined by who?

[Enthusiast]

139. People are all over the map on guns.

It certainly isn't as simplistic as you make it out to be. I'm a liberal and a progressive. I am for reasonable gun laws/rights.

[msongs]

18. the democratic party USA Inc is afraid of that word, preferring to be called repub lite lol nt

[orpupilofnature57]

19. Pat Boone singing ' Tutti Frutti ' instead of Little Richard.

[awoke_in_2003]

116. do not google that...

it may cause nightmares.

[Taverner]

21. "Liberal?" No: I'm a Fucking Socialist!

:)

I'm with you, let's take back our words!

[ChiciB1]

24. I Can DO Socialist Too... Bernie Sanders Is A Hero Of Mine As Was PAUL WELLSTONE! N/T

[ChillbertKChesterton]

95. delete

[Shagbark Hickory]

25. Socialist? I'm a Communist.

I'd like to see someone top that.

[Taverner]

27. Amen brother

[white_wolf]

40. Likewise.

[socialist_n_TN]

63. And Daddy makes three.......

:)

[Marrah_G]

83. I'm a communist who thinks it can only work on small communities!

I'd like to see this entire country split into much smaller more manageable countries.

[TBF]

113. With ya comrade. nt

[ChiciB1]

22. I've ALWAYS Been PROUD To Say I'm A Liberal & Have Had MANY, MANY

people attack me for it. STILL, I stand my ground! In fact there is THAT bumper sticker that says I'm A Proud Democrat & I ALWAYS used letters from other stickers and replaced Democrat with LIBERAL!

Most of the animus started for me when Ronny Rayguns decided that LIBERAL was a dirty word and I've NEVER forgotten it. Now, it seems even many Democrats have problems with it. Too bad, TOO SAD!

I prefer Liberal over Progressive because I don't like hiding who I really am!

[Whisp]

23. I would not want to be called the 'progressive' we see defined here.

Liberal for me, thanks.
any friggen day.

[PassingFair]

58. What definition would that be? n/t

[kentuck]

26. Joe Lieberman is a proud liberal...

At least, he says he is. :-)

[Shagbark Hickory]

28. He stabs backs pretty liberally I guess.

[kentuck]

31. I remember when he stabbed Gore in the back in Florida...

He insisted that all the military votes be counted even if they were late and obviously manipulated by the Republicans. I will never forget that.

[Hoosier Daddy]

50. I remember when he campaigned with McCain against Obama

Joe Lieberman, Jay Leno: I guess there must be something about names and initials that turns a guy into a backstabbing, doublecrossing Traitor.

(Yep: Conanista all the way, baby!) ;-)

[awoke_in_2003]

117. "At least, he says he is"...

and if I went around saying I was emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away :)

(just a little Python for comedy relief)

[Dont call me Shirley]

124. Sleazerman is not a liberal, he's a hardcore neo-con.

[Bjorn Against]

32. The word Progressive is not new

Bob LaFollette and Teddy Roosevelt used the term "progressive" to describe their political views a century ago, we are not running away from the term liberal we are using a term we feel is more descriptive. I also view myself as a liberal, but I feel the term progressive describes a specific kind of liberals. All progressives are liberals but not all liberals are progressives.

[Jackpine Radical]

33. Since you obviously have no idea of what "Progressive" means, here is their platform from 1912:

(1) The Progressive Party, Platform (August, 1912)

The conscience of the people, in a time of grave national problems, has called into being a new party, born of the nation's sense of justice.

We of the Progressive party here dedicate ourselves to the fulfillment of the duty laid upon us by our fathers to- maintain the government of the people, by the people and for the people whose foundations they laid.

THE OLD PARTIES

Political parties exist to secure responsible government and to execute the will of the people.

From these great tasks both of the old parties have turned aside. Instead of instruments to promote the general welfare, they have become the tools of corrupt interests which use them impartially to serve their selfish purposes. Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people.

To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.


The deliberate betrayal of its trust by the Republican party, the fatal incapacity of the Democratic party to deal with the new issues of the new time, have compelled the people to forge a new instrument of government through which to give effect to their will in laws and institutions.

Unhampered by tradition, uncorrupted by power, undismayed by the magnitude of the task, the new party offers itself as the instrument of the people to sweep away old abuses, to build a new and nobler commonwealth.

EQUAL SUFFRAGE

The Progressive party, believing that no people can justly claim to be a true democracy which denies political rights on account of sex, pledges itself to the task of securing equal suffrage to men and women alike.

CORRUPT PRACTICES

We pledge our party to legislation that will compel strict limitation of all campaign contributions and expenditures, and detailed publicity of both before as well as after primaries and elections.

PUBLICITY AND PUBLIC SERVICE

We pledge our party to legislation compelling the registration of lobbyists; publicity of committee hearings except on foreign affairs, and recording of all votes in committee; and forbidding federal appointees from holding office in State or National political organizations, or taking part as officers or delegates in political conventions for the nomination of elective State or National officials.

THE COURTS

The Progressive party demands such restriction of the power of the courts as shall leave to the people the ultimate authority to determine fundamental questions of social welfare and public policy. To secure this end, it pledges itself to provide:

1. That when an Act, passed under the police power of the State, is held unconstitutional under the State Constitution, by the courts, the people, after an ample interval for deliberation, shall have an opportunity to vote on the question whether they desire the Act to become law, notwithstanding such decision.

2. That every decision of the highest appellate court of a State declaring an Act of the Legislature unconstitutional on the ground of its violation of the Federal Constitution shall be subject to the same review by the Supreme Court of the United States as is now accorded to decisions sustaining such legislation.

ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE

We believe that the issuance of injunctions in cases arising out of labor disputes should be prohibited when such injunctions would not apply when no labor disputes existed.

We believe also that a person cited for contempt in labor disputes, except when such contempt was committed in the actual presence of the court or so near thereto as to interfere with the proper administration of justice, should have a right to trial by jury.

SOCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL JUSTICE

The supreme duty of the Nation is the conservation of human resources through an enlightened measure of social and industrial justice. We pledge ourselves to work unceasingly in State and Nation for:

Effective legislation looking to the prevention of industrial accidents, occupational diseases, overwork, involuntary unemployment, and other injurious effects incident to modern industry;

The fixing of minimum safety and health standards for the various occupations, and the exercise of the public authority of State and Nation, including the Federal Control over interstate commerce, and the taxing power, to maintain such standards;

The prohibition of child labor;

Minimum wage standards for working women, to provide a "living wage" in all industrial occupations;

The general prohibition of night work for women and the establishment of an eight-hour day for women and young persons;

One day's rest in seven for all wage workers;

The eight-hour day in continuous twentv-four-hour industries:

The abolition of the convict contract labor system; substituting a system of prison production for governmental consumption only; and the application of prisoners' earnings to the support of their dependent families;

Publicity as to wages, hours and conditions of labor; full reports upon industrial accidents and diseases; and the opening to public inspection of all tallies, weights, measures and check systems on labor products;

Standards of compensation for death by industrial accident and injury and trade disease which will transfer the burden of lost earnings from the families of working people to the industry, and thus to the community;

The protection of home life against the hazards of sickness, irregular employment and old age through the adoption of a system of social insurance adapted to American use;

The development of the creative labor power of America by lifting the last load of illiteracy from American youth and establishing continuation schools for industrial education under public control and encouraging agricultural education and demonstration in rural schools;

We favor the organization of the workers, men and women, as a means of protecting their interests and of promoting their progress. . . .

BUSINESS

We demand that the test of true prosperity shall be the benefit conferred thereby on all the citizens, not confined to individuals or classes.

We therefore demand a strong National regulation of inter-State corporations. The corporation is an essential part of modern business. The concentration of modern business, in some degree, is both inevitable and necessary for national and international business efficiency. But the existing concentration of vast wealth under a corporate system, unguarded
and uncontrolled by the Nation, has placed in the hands of a few men enormous, secret, irresponsible power over the daily life of the citizen - a power insufferable in a free government and certain of abuse.

We urge the establishment of a strong Federal administrative commission of high standing, which shall maintain permanent and active supervision over industrial corporations engaged in interstate commerce, or such of them as are of public importance.

Such a commission must enforce the complete publicity of those corporate transactions which are of public interest; must attack unfair competition, false capitalization and special privilege.

We favor strengthening the Sherman Law by prohibiting agreement to divide territory or limit output; refusing to sell to customers who buy from business rivals; to sell below cost in certain areas while maintaining higher prices in other places; using the power of transportation to aid or injure special business concerns; and other unfair trade practices.

[kentuck]

60. Thanks Jackpine...

for passing along a little needed knowledge...

[Hoosier Daddy]

66. Since you obviously have no understanding of the context in which I'm communicating.....

I would remind you that you're citing something from August, 1912! HellOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO???

[Jackpine Radical]

88. Try this for some modern "context."

http://www.fightingbobfest.org/

Or this:

http://www.inthesetimes.com/working/entry/11984/crowd_of_8500_at_fighting_bob_fest_shows_wisconsin_struggle_continues/



HelLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

[QC]

81. Thank you! Somebody posts this very same rant every week or so,

and acts like it's something very brave and ingenious.

John Kerry, Joe Lieberman, and Chuck Schumer are liberals. Howard Zinn, Gore Vidal, and Michael Moore are progressives.

These are clearly very different things.

I would rather be in the second group, thank you.

[awoke_in_2003]

118. Just because Lieberman and Schumer...

call themselves liberal does not make it so.

[QC]

132. That is true. It makes me think of Abraham Lincoln's old joke:

How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg?

Four. Calling the tail a leg doesn't make it one.

Still, the general rule holds that liberals believe the system is generally good, though it needs some tinkering from time to time, while progressives favor systemic change. I think we are in a time that calls for something more than tinkering.

[awoke_in_2003]

145. Until we eliminate K street

and have public financing of campaigns, nothing will change. Regardless of what a politician calls themselves, most are bought and paid for.

[QC]

146. I agree 100%. We have to get the money out of the system,

or else the politicians will be working not for us but for the people who are bribing them.

[Mnpaul]

36. I hear ya - proud liberal

and amen. Can anyone show me on a political scale liberal---->conservative, where a progressive lies? Personally, I hate the term. It defines nothing.

[Bjorn Against]

39. If you can show me a linear scale that defines ideology I might be able to point it out

The problem is there is no such thing as a linear scale from left to right that makes any sense, political ideolgy is far too complex to be placed on a linear spectrum and the only reason such a scale is used is that people try to simplify things as much as possible. I refer to the left and right myself sometimes, but I am the first to admit that the scale is far too simplistic to mean much of anything, not only is it impossible to point out where progressives sit on such a scale it is impossible to point out exactly where anyone sits.

[Mnpaul]

70. No such thing?

One of the most famous ones with the positions of the 2008 candidates calculated based on their political positions during the election. http://politicalcompass.org/

[Bjorn Against]

75. That chart is better than most but still flawed.

What makes it better is it is not linear, there is no good linear scale of liberal to conservative as you had previously asked for. On this chart it should be obvious where progressives fit, there are only two progressives shown on the chart and they are both in the lower left quadrant.

[Hoosier Daddy]

59. "It defines nothing."

Exactly right. Did you know that, up in Canada, Stephen Hitler's---oops, sorry---Stephen Harper's party used to be named the Progressive Conservatives?

:rofl:

[polly7]

65. The PC party was originally formed in an attempt for the conservative party

to turn left, and place itself on the path of wartime reform sentiment during WWII along with the Liberal party. 'Progressive' did have meaning. Merging with the Canadian Alliance party in 2003, the new Conservative party was a turn to the right.

(Edit: to delete the 9 additional wars:))

[Hoosier Daddy]

69. World War Eleven?

Just kidding: I do get your point. All I'm trying to say is that "progressive" can mean many things, whereas, here in America, "liberal" is pretty much a word on its own merits.

[Raine]

38. I prefer Progressive ... I feel Progressive is more radical left

than a Liberal. :shrug:

[white_wolf]

43. If you want radical left, then the words you are looking for are socialist or communist.

[Capitalocracy]

41. I agree with the sentiment but I actually like the word progressive

And it makes it very clear that I don't identify in any way with neoliberal ideology

[Odin2005]

42. I'm a socialist commie pinko and proud of it.

[ellisonz]

44. Damn right.

O8)

[quinnox]

45. I call myself liberal all the time

It is a great word. Progressive is fine as well, but I just like the sound of liberal better.

[LWolf]

46. I agree, and I have to add this:

LIBERAL is NOT "neo-liberal."

[Hoosier Daddy]

71. Oh, you got THAT right!

Neo is a prefix to be avoided, as it can be employed to justify pretty much ANYTHING.

[Xithras]

47. Words have meanings. Liberal and Progressive aren't new, and don't mean the same thing.

One can be both a liberal and a progressive. One can be a progressive without being a liberal. One can be a liberal without being a progressive.

As John F Kennedy put it, a liberal is "...someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people — their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties".

And a progressivism? In a nutshell, progressivism is the idea that you can impose change on a society through governmental action. Progressive simply means that you advocate using the power of government to impose progress onto society.

You can be just a liberal: "I believe that everyone should be free and equal, but the government should stay out of my business."
You can be a progressive liberal: "I believe that everyone should be free and equal, and that government should act as a force to guarantee that freedom."
You can just be a progressive: "I think society would be better if it did X, and I'm going to fight to make that happen."

Yes Virginia, even conservatives can occasionally wear the progressive hat, if they're using government to impose social change.

FWIW, politically I tend to be a "liberal social progressive". I have a very liberal outlook on individual rights (almost to the point of absolutism), but I believe that government has a role in promoting social change through the exercise of its authority. I believe that companies and corporations should be regulated for the public good, but that individual people should be left alone to live their lives how they choose.

[mdmc]

49. i'm a big government tax and spend bleeding heart liberal

myself

[in_cog_ni_to]

53. I'm a Progressive, Tree Hugging, Bleeding Heart Liberal, Commie Pinko

and fucking PROUD OF IT. :grr:

[inna]

54. "liberal" is really not a terribly descriptive term. People can be socially liberal and fiscally con

servative - and vice versa, for example.

In terms of political terms, I find the Left vs. Right distinction much more meaningful; in fact, I even find the term "progressive" more informative and useful than "liberal".

[defendandprotect]

55. kr -- LIBERAL HERE ... !!

[chillspike]

56. See the comment section of my profile

Liberal, that's me.

[femmocrat]

57. Bleeding-heart, knee-jerk librul and proud of it!

:kick:

[applegrove]

61. Great rant. I agree!

[provis99]

64. why do you hate America?

:sarcasm:

[October]

68. I tell everyone -- I am an unabashed liberal :)

[pinboy3niner]

72. A Liberal Definition by John F. Kennedy ("I'm proud to say I'm a Liberal"):

Acceptance Speech of the New York
Liberal Party Nomination

September 14, 1960

What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?" If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of "Liberal." But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."

...


http://www.liberalparty.org/JFKLPAcceptance.html

[lonestarnot]

73. To hear them tell it, we make only 3 to 7 percent of voters.

K & R!

[Puregonzo1188]

74. I try to avoid liberal since it generally doesn't mean in the rest of the world, in its technical

sense, or it's historical sense what it means now.

Adam Smith was a liberal, as was Milton Friedman. The social reformers of the early 20th century that campaigned for labor rights, market regulations, environmental protections, ect? They were progressives. The term is much less murky in that sense and if you're trying to align yourself with a historic trajectory it's with progressivism.

[sellitman]

76. K & Arrrrrrrrrrrr n/t

[HappyMe]

77. Yet another fucking Liberal here.

I don't know who suddenly changed it to 'progressive', but they can kiss my ass.


Fucking Bleeding Heart Liberal, thank you very much!


:hippie:

[Cigar11]

78. I am a Progressive by nature ...

... who is Liberal by action.

[Dawgs]

79. Labels suck.

Are nation is failing because of them.

It's time to find common ground through ideas, not labels or party.

[kentuck]

80. I agree.

As if there is something wrong with progressives?

[patrice]

125. Yes, they can. They can also be relatively useful. Rigid DEPENDENCE upon them sucks.

[Bobbie Jo]

82. K&R

Thank you. :kick:

[mmonk]

84. I agree on the behavior control concerning the word. However,

I'm also progressive (not the faux progressives that try to sell regressive ideas as progressive because they are afraid of the word liberal).

[kctim]

85. I'm a Democrat

and no, you are not the effing majority. Far from it in fact.

[Dawgs]

94. Wrong. Most people are liberals. They just don't know it.

And, there is proof of this.

Where is your proof?

[patrice]

129. Depends upon whether you're counting this kind of bean compared to that kind of bean - or - actually

talking to people and acquiring some understanding of their understanding.

Numbers do not necessarily, or even very often I'd bet, equal Qualities.

[bvar22]

89. While I AM a Liberal Democrat,

I also acknowledge that the term has been beaten into uselessness by the Republicans,
but also by the "Centrist" Democrats who borrow it when they want to, but then attack the "Fringe Left" (FDR/LBJ) wing of their own Party.
The old labels have been abused so often that they have become meaningless and confusing....like the current Democratic Party Platform.


I'm an old FDR/LBJ Pro-Working Class LIBERAL Democrat,
and while I'm PROUD of that, I'm happy to use what WORKS.

I live in a very RED part of the South, and when asked about politics,
if I identify myself as a "Liberal", the conversation is OVER.
So when asked, I usually respond with:
"I'm a STRONG UNION Democrat.
Me & My Daddy had to work too hard all our lives to be Republicans."

This response has some immediate benefits:

1) While there is NO DOUBT about my proud & unapologetic Party Affiliation,
this does tend to put any opposition on uncertain ground.
Rush & Hannity haven't told them HOW to respond to this.

2) This response has some STRONG wording and phrases (NLP) that trigger an emotionally positive and supportive response from those round here.
"Me & my Daddy is MUCH more powerful than "My Family",
"worked too hard all our lives" is sacred,
and "STRONG" is....well STRONG.

3) Any further discussion will be about Working Class ECONOMIC Issues,
and THIS is where I choose to fight.



From there, it is fairly easy to move to,
"I want MY country back, thats WHY I'm voting for the Democrat".
Things were better for 'People who have to Work for a Living' when there were STRONG UNIONS,
and the "Top Marginal Tax Rates ON THE RICH was over 70%,
and everybody could 'go to the doctor when they were sick'.
"...could go to the doctor when they're sick"' gets very, VERY strong positive reaction (round here).
Most people remember a time when this was TRUE.

None of the above "conversations" would be possible if I identified myself as a "Liberal" Democrat,
though in my heart, that is exactly what I am.

Old Chinese Proverb:
"It is easier to put on slippers,
than to try to carpet The World."



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone

photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed

[badtoworse]

90. Love me, love me, love me....

[Hell Hath No Fury]

92. Liberal on board.

Liberal first, party second. :applause:

[ChillbertKChesterton]

96. a "liberal" is someone who supports the capitalist economic/power structure

liberalism is about supporting bourgeois freedom at the expense of emancipation

[LittleGirl]

97. fellow Hoosier here

with the same family issues - tea partier members and then there's my Mother, brother and me, all BLEEDING HEART LIBERALS. Proud of it too.

thank you.

[kenfrequed]

98. The term "liberal" has a different meaning internationally

"Liberal" is often associated with "neo-liberal" which ended up being more economic and was interested in free trade to some nations.

But whatever... its good to be on the left.

[IndyPragmatist]

104. Ha, I just posted the same thing in this thread

Over many years of having political discussions with Asians and Europeans, I have learned not to misuse the term "liberal" like most Americans do.

[kenfrequed]

121. Whoops...

Did you beat me to the punch? Damn, I really need to learn to read these things more thoroughly. I'm cautious about the term 'liberal' for the same reason.

[IndyPragmatist]

127. Nope, it was actually me who didn't do his reading

Your post came in a few minutes before mine :)

[EmeraldCityGrl]

100. Have never called myself a "Progressive"

Always sounded too evasive. I'm a bleeding heart Liberal and proud of it.

[Goblinmonger]

101. So Feingold is somehow wrong

for creating a Progressive group?

It's a term that is accurate and has a long history before the wingnuts came along. I consider myself a progressive and don't see it as an insult.

[tcaudilllg]

102. I'm progressive

Maybe you are liberal... but they are two different (but complementary) ways of thinking.

You are the change at the personal level, I am the change at the systemic level.

The conservatives have a similar split.

[tcaudilllg]

106. Liberals act individually... progressive action is like a wave...

A determination to stop something or change something... a massive collective initiative. Progressives do not uphold progress... we ARE progress.

[IndyPragmatist]

103. Well, if you want to get technical about it, you aren't a liberal.

I may be wrong, you might be a liberal. But if we want to go back to the real definition of words, a liberal is a modern day libertarian. So I doubt you are liberal.

[tcaudilllg]

109. what real definition?

[IndyPragmatist]

128. Liberalism is now Libertarianism

Many credit FDR with the shift in the meaning of the term in America.


liberalism, philosophy or movement that has as its aim the development of individual freedom. Because the concepts of liberty or freedom change in different historical periods the specific programs of liberalism also change. The final aim of liberalism, however, remains fixed, as does its characteristic belief not only in essential human goodness but also in human rationality. Liberalism assumes that people, having a rational intellect, have the ability to recognize problems and solve them and thus can achieve systematic improvement in the human condition. Often opposed to liberalism is the doctrine of conservatism, which, simply stated, supports the maintenance of the status quo. Liberalism, which seeks what it considers to be improvement or progress, necessarily desires to change the existing order.

[tcaudilllg]

130. By that definition...

need I say it?

[TeamsterDem]

105. I'm a fucking liberal too! And a proud one at that! nt

[mac56]

108. I describe myself as "embarrassingly liberal."

I wear it with pride. Paul Wellstone got that hung around his neck by his opponent during the first campaign, and he wore it with pride too.

Embarrassingly liberal, that's me.

[closeupready]

110. Libbie-libbie-libbie liberal checking in!

K&R

[The Wizard]

111. Reagan made Liberal

a pejorative. I've had enough of that bullshit. Reagan was a failure and anti American. He was a bum yesterday, he's a bum today, and he's going to be a bum tomorrow.

[Stuckinthebush]

112. "Tree-huggin', bunny-kissin' liberal"

That's me. :D

[William769]

119. K&R.

[patrice]

122. Self identify with that word in conversation every chance I get. Get used to it America!!!

[LoisB]

123. LIBERAL

Agree 100%!!! I, too, am and will always be a L-I-B-E-R-A-L, proudly!!!!
Thank you for reclaiming the title.

[patrice]

126. P.S. There's nothing wrong with Progressive!! IMHO, the major difference is a matter of method more

than anything else.

I see Progressives as having the same values, only more pragmatically DRIVEN.

While, Liberals are more hunter-gatherers.

[SnakeEyes]

133. I'd prefer progressive

As I like the historical context and connection to my views. However, I can't because I live in a land of Beckites who parrot Jonah Goldberg, yet i don't think they've even read Liberal Fascism, and say "progressives were responsible for Eugenics/sterilization/etc, Wilson was a racist, leads to mass murder" blah blah. I'd rather avoid that since I'm in the minority view around here. So I stick with liberal.

[Heathen57]

134. I'm the GOP's worst nightmare.

I make Rush drop his $200.00 cigar and I make Bill O'lielly's head explode on camera. Mention me to Glen Beck and he starts bawling like a baby. The Repub/Teabaggers are so scared of me that they keep trying to ban me from politics and the judicial branch of government.

I AM A LIBERAL. I still hold dear the basic principals of the old Democratic Party, and I refuse to bargain away any of those in the interest of "Compromise". The common American worker is my partner, and the unions are my strong arm against unbridled Capitalism.


Teabaggers, Look upon me and tremble with fear! For I am the majority and I am finally feeling my power.

[Enthusiast]

135. Our founders were liberals.

Now watch some asshole jump up to say they weren't liberals. Well, Jesus was a liberal.

[Exilednight]

138. I don't care what you call me. You can call me a liveral, progressive or even a radical, but I am

not a pragmatic. Pragmatic is just another word for "status quo".

[russspeakeasy]

140. Love it and I'm going to steal it...Thanks Hoosier

:toast:

[Deep13]

141. I'm a progressive.

Liberal is way, wa-a-ay better than conservative to say nothing of the radical elements that have taken over RW American politics. I'm not knocking liberals at all. Still, it's a classical approach relying on representation in the political system and legal remedies defined by that system. Personally, I think we need organic changes to society that the hegemonic culture will not allow to happen by ordinary, political means.

[H2O Man]

143. I'm a progressive.

I like liberals, and definitely respect most of them. But I am one with the progressive community, that seeks to make major changes in our system.

[quakerboy]

144. Hell. Im a liberal. And a progressive

Ive got no problem with either, and anyone who does can take it up with me.