In 15 words or less: What is the goal of OccupyWallStreet ?

[KurtNYC]

For example, for Rosa Parks ("end segregation on buses), or Tahrir Square ("to end the regime of Hosni Mubarak").

But for OccupyWallStreet ?

If, like me, you don't know what ONE thing it is, then what SHOULD it be?

[abelenkpe]

1. How about

to get real investigations started into the crash?

[justiceischeap]

2. 'To wake people out of their stupor' nt

[Kalidurga]

3. Seems there might be more than one idea here...

But I will go with: to let the powers that be know that we know they are crooks.

[Speck Tater]

9. Too vague. Which stupor? Stupor about what? Awaken to what alternative?

That's just a platitude.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mattvermont]

4. pertinent to this post and the one previous by Taverner

Theyy say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings steal a little and they throw you in jail. Steal a lot and then they make you king.”
― Bob Dylan

[vanlassie]

103. +1,000,000

[NightWatcher]

5. Draw attention to where the real criminals are located

9 words, huh. It's not a complete sentence, but I think it fits.

[Luminous Animal]

6. It's work in progress. From the beginning the goal was to occupy and hammer things out.

[Gregorian]

7. Change economic inequality

[lunatica]

8. Does everything have a to be a one trick pony?

Does it make you dizzy to think in nuance and layered issues? And you're wrong about Rosa Parks. The Civil rights movement was about a lot more than some fucking bus issue.

How about end the regime of Corporatocracy. Does that satisfy you?

[Speck Tater]

11. Only if you want to capture the attention of Americans who only understand bumper-sticker philosophy

[KurtNYC]

19. I will defer to Rosa Parks to tell you how broad her goals were on that day

"It was not pre-arranged. It just happened that the driver made a demand and I just didn't feel like obeying his demand. I was quite tired after spending a full day working."

"At the time I was arrested I had no idea it would turn into this. It was just a day like any other day. The only thing that made it significant was that the masses of the people joined in."

Parks impromptu actions spurred the boycott of the Montgomery Bus system and the end of segregation on buses.

One do-able step at a time.

[Gold Metal Flake]

28. Oops, Rosa Parks did not use 15 words or less.

Rosa Parks fail, I guess.





Edit: Capital P.

[Luminous Animal]

43. She was also the secretary to the president of the local NAACP. She wasn't some innocent by-stander

but an integral part of the local civil rights movement.

[KurtNYC]

59. Good point . On that day: A tired woman on her way home from work.

Simple and effective. Framed an issue in images. Transcending language. An appeal directly to people's sense of fairness and what is right.

If she had resisted, swore or pulled out a gun, if she had 10 different signs that said 10 different things on 10 different topics she would have been forgotten.

[jwirr]

78. You are correct. The 60-80s was about many issues, women's liberation,

free sex, ending the war, hunger issues (George McGovern), civil rights, voters rights, free speech, anti-corporate issues and for some it was "I want to smoke pot".

[chowder66]

10. To shine the light brightly on Corporate corruption, crime and abuse

and hold them accountable.

(that goes for the media -NOTW, etc- and corrupt officials)

[EmeraldCityGrl]

12. It's so funny watching people trying to define the new

generation of social activists.

[lunatica]

17. In 15 words no less.

[Occulus]

108. It's actually very easy to answer if you saw their poster for it

They want to dance on the head of the bull. Here, 'dance' is a metaphor for many different acts of protest.

[PA Democrat]

13. End the corporate takeover of government. Place the wellbeing of we the people over profits.

15 words.

[RainDog]

14. social justice n/t

[Exilednight]

15. I've asked this same question, and and everyone has a different answer. That's why it will never

go anywhere. If there's no unified message, then there's no unified support.

[lunatica]

18. Maybe you'd understand a teabaggerati on line definition

How about end Corporatocrity.

See? I didn't have to even use 15 words.

Maybe if you try to stop thinking in sound bites and bumper stickers you might get an idea or two instead of trashing people who are obviously braver than you are.

[Exilednight]

23. Have you been to the rally? I went the first weekend and the first thing I noticed is

that there were too many different political affiliates. Lyndon LaRouche had his group out, but none of them knew what they were protesting. Tea partiers were out, but they were only protesting over the bailouts, but they also wanted more deregulation. Anarchists were there, they were protesting the complete existence of Wall Street and markets.

So tell me, what exactly is the protest about?

[Luminous Animal]

26. It is an organizing event. They are gathered to hammer out demands. You can

contribute by participating if you like.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

35. I *will* tell you *exactly.*

It is about reversing the transfer of wealth in America.

[Exilednight]

49. Based on whose philosophy? Tea baggers, anarchists, LaRouchites, or progessives? In my view, the

only way to reverse the transfer of wealth is to reregulate the markets and simplify the process of banking. Ask the teabaggers and they will tell you that the way to change Wall Street is to deregulate the markets. The anarchists way to reverse the process is to totally abolish the markets.

So who "exactly" do you tell that you're using their ideas, and whose ideas you're not going to use. Once you tell someone you don't believe in their ideas, do you think they are going to stick around?

[Luminous Animal]

56. Whose demands? Most likely people who actually participate. It's happening this weekend.

[Exilednight]

60. In a city of 8 million people, no one cares about a few hundred. That's reality. And I am not

going back to a rally with a bunch of people I don't even agree with. Very few people are paying attention and even fewer really care.

If you want a protest to be recognized in this city, turn out at least 10,000 people.

[Luminous Animal]

66. Did you know that the encampment in Madrid started with about 30 people?

[Exilednight]

68. They difference is that people joined that movement. People have left this protest. n/t

[Luminous Animal]

70. It has just started.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

74. False. n/t

[Exilednight]

85. If I am wrong, then prove it. At the beginning of the protest the number was put at

around 1,000 protesters. Now there are only a few hundred left.

In all honesty, it makes me sick to think that someone like Glenn Beck can turn out tens of thousands, and the best a protest in the US's largest city can turn out is a few hundred.

This has consistently been the modern lefts problem in the United States. We fail to message, and in turn that produces shitty organization when it comes to creating movements.

The most recent success is the Wisconsin rally, but there was one consistent message which allowed organizing to take happen.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

92. I can prove it from general knowlege.

The beginning (with 1-2 thousand people) was on a weekend. The second weekend was bigger, say 3-5 thousand. After the first weekend, the numbers in the plaza were less, say 200 hundred. After the second weekend, the numbers (say several hundred) declined but were larger than after the first weekend. So there is a pattern of early growth established. I believe this is well known.

[Exilednight]

95. It never hit 3-5 thousand. Show one credible news source that puts it that high. n/t

[Admiral Loinpresser]

96. Go find a source yourself. n/t

[Exilednight]

98. I looked, and I can't find one. If you can't post one, then it speaks volumes to your claim. n/t

[Admiral Loinpresser]

100. I could go try.

But I had a similar discussion with someone about whether there were only 50. I tired of working for fools. Over and out.

[Exilednight]

102. You made the claim, and I can't prove a negative. No one writes an article about the 3-5 thousand

people that didn't show up.

[Luminous Animal]

107. Source: From the Guardian (which happens to one of the few MSM press outlets who report on the

occupation.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/sep/27/occupy-wall-street-anonymous

"Defying harsh critiques from Stephen Colbert and slews of bloggers who scoffed last week at the "leaderless", "directionless", Frisbee-throwing hipsters camping out on cardboard at a random New York City park in the financial district, Occupy Wall Street appears to be gaining ground. From the modest 200 occupiers last week, numbers of protesters rose to an estimated peak of approximately 3,000 to 5,000 at the weekend's march. Media attention has grown exponentially.

After taking their inspiration from the Egyptian "one demand" model, Occupy Wall Street have now released their list of "one" demands, bringing much-needed clarity to their objectives. The movement has moved to reach out to a broader base, including labor unions. Last week's execution of Troy Davis also contributed to the growth of Occupy Wall Street as crowds of protesters in Zucotti Park, renamed Liberty Plaza, swelled to approximately 1,500 last Thursday night demanding an end to capital punishment."

[Exilednight]

123. Check that "article" again. It's not an actual article. The author's profile

Ayesha Kazmi is a researcher and writer for CagePrisoners. She blogs at AmericanPaki

[Luminous Animal]

127. The Guardian calls it an article. It is an article.

I'm not sure how her profile discredits her.

Anyway, as much as you want this movement to fail, too bad for you that it is gaining momentum and getting quite a few labor and long-time social activists to lend their support.

[Exilednight]

128. It's a blog post written by someone not even in America, much less NYC. n/t

[Enrique]

114. if no one cares, the cops wouldnt be arresting all those people

and pepper spraying thm

[Exilednight]

121. Ever met a NY cop? They live to pepper spray people. n/t

[Admiral Loinpresser]

61. The LaRouchies are not part of the movement.

They are runny-bat-shit crazy. The teabaggers should be, but currently are not part of this movement. The vast majority of occupiers understand that there is a reverse-Robin-Hood process going on. I saw a poll today saying over two thirds of Americans believe bankers and big corporations have too much power. Most of the 99% get that we are being robbed and that the 1% are the perpetrators.

[Exilednight]

67. So why are they are they out there protesting? Granted, the LaRouchites are out there singing

songs, but they are there with the protesters.

[Luminous Animal]

71. They had to record their song blocks away near Battery Park because the Liberty Park

people told them to shoo.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

72. They are a cult.

They go where they are told. When I worked on K Street in DC, they were there by the Metro entrance. When I was at the Dem convention in Boston in 2004, they were distributing there weird literature. They are the political version of Hare Krishnas, who used to be in the airports.

[lunatica]

38. LaRouches go to every rally

It's what they do, since they can't get anywhere any other way.

But if you went to other rallies you'd know that. You'd also know a lot of fringe groups go to all rallies.

The protests are about ending Corporatocracy. I've said that three different times in this thread.

[Exilednight]

54. Yes they do, but they don't make up a double digit percentage of most rallies. n/t

[Luminous Animal]

69. And they do not at this occupation, either.

[KurtNYC]

25. The first step to GETTING what you want is DEFINING what you want

Is that too simple for you brother?

[Luminous Animal]

29. And defining what they want is what they are working on. Anybody can participate.

There are online discussions, as well.

[Exilednight]

31. If there's going to be a unifying message, then some groups are going to have to be

tossed out. Right now the protest exists of a few hundred people. Pick out message and you're going to knock it down a few dozen.

[Luminous Animal]

34. And you know this because you visited on the 1st weekend. Oookay.

[Exilednight]

37. At it's height, it was just around a thousand people, but that number quickly dropped after the

first weekend. I'm not saying that new people aren't joining the protest, but more people are leaving than are joining.

[Luminous Animal]

46. And at the same time, there are sister rallies being planned & held all over the U.S.

and some in Europe.

[Exilednight]

33. Exactly. And yet these protesters put the cart before the horse. They started

protesting before they even knew what they were protesting over.

It's a joke, and no one is going to take it serious without a leader and real organization and one unified message.

[lunatica]

50. You're the expert in the armchair.

What horse before what cart? The message is clear. Stop corporatocracy. 2 words. Really if you stop running off your mouth you might get a clue.

[Exilednight]

53. See post #51, It shows how much of a fail this statement is. Have you been to the protest? n/t

[lunatica]

40. If you'd stop running at the mouth for a moment you'd realize they have

They want to end corporatocracy rule.

[Exilednight]

51. Really? So you think the tea baggers are protesting the end of corporations? They want less

regulation.

[KurtNYC]

86. Just repeating what was said by someone at the protest

'The crowd included self-identified Tea Partiers.' Some of them seem to be against the bail outs.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

32. +1 n/t

[dkf]

16. Free Troy Davis, the Postal Service and the Pilots!

And be able to show your boobs.

Oops that is 16 words. Sorry.

[lunatica]

21. Stupid statement

[dkf]

39. exactly.

But that is what we see.

[lunatica]

42. No. Yours is a stupid statement

And you don't see, much less comprehend.

[KurtNYC]

88. Can I ask why you give yourself permission to be so disrespectful to

posters who have shown no disrespect to you?

Disagreements are not disrespect.

[lunatica]

99. They keep starting threads as a group with a variation on the same subject

and it's invariably to tear down and criticize others. They think we're too stupid to notice. They trash the Occupy Wall Street demonstrators every single time and ask the same 'innocent' questions and then they do it again and again. They make stupid demands like 'convince me in 15 words or less' They highjack OPs that are in support of the demonstrations without a shred of intelligent rebuttal and they side with the police and ridicule the young people.

Because I believe most of them are trolls bent on disrupting and dividing us. They keep repeating things that have been debunked more than once. In other words they have an agenda and get people like you to defend them.

After a while most people stop suffering fools. At least those who see these repeated patterns again and again coming from the same suspects. But if you feel the should defend the poor little victims from my 'disrespect' it's your right.

[newspeak]

117. yeah, what I see is some attempting to neutralize the protest

so the teabaggers are there, I doubt they were invited, but hey, it's their right-I see them as putting a spoke in the wheel. They are, after all, pro-corporate shills-no taxes, privatize everything, deregulate (oh for corporations not people, especially women).

If I was there it would be make wall street accountable,investigate, justice, regulation-corporations are not people.

[readmoreoften]

45. Wow. So, fuck the fight against racism and the fight for public workers?

All that stuff is so trivial and stupid, right?

[tkmorris]

55. Have you READ that poster's material before?

[Exilednight]

90. I think what the poster is saying, and they can correct me if I'm wrong, is that

no one knows what the protest is over, including the protesters. Ask ten different protesters and you will get several different answers.

Activity does not equal productivity.

[Liberal_in_LA]

20. why unrec a simple question?

[KurtNYC]

77. Perhaps because the MSM is asking the same question?

and some perceive it as a meme or an attack on the protest.

I see it as the media asking the right question, a bit late but the right question. The MSM WANTS to cover this protest now so it would be good if they got an answer.

To get the media to ask these kinds of questions is what people camped in parks, marched and got maced (or worse) for. Let's not piss this moment away by not answering (or not answering in the format they want).

[Liberal_in_LA]

116. I see, but we should give DUers the benefit of the doubt.

[newspeak]

118. well, the media was happy to focus on the tea party

with great insight like "I want my country back." So, the tea party comes and it's what's the protest about? I'd say the protest is about the malfeasance of wall street, about people losing their homes, about people not having decent jobs, about people losing their decent jobs. So what, you got some on the fringe with different messages, even the damn tea party. Just because they showed up doesn't take away from the message that some on wall street screwed the world while reaping from our misery and we need resolution and restitution.

[gratuitous]

22. To get you to think about things in more than 15 words

Did it with three to spare.

[Luminous Animal]

30. +!

[lunatica]

44. +1

[Warren Stupidity]

89. this revolution will not be televised

we are slowly learning. In 15 words or less.

[TBF]

24. Get rid of capitalism.

Well, that would be my goal. They are young but maybe they'll get there.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

27. Reverse the transfer of wealth in America.

Did it in 7!

[rbnyc]

105. +1 (nt)

[Marrah_G]

36. To bring attention to greed on wall street that is killing our middleclass.

[readmoreoften]

41. Fight Austerity Measures. (With the far left demanding and organizing for an end to capitalism)

[Bluenorthwest]

47. The name is the goal, no? Occupy Wall St. that's 3 words

of their choice. Like the objections, the answers to them can be cut and pasted from an earlier time. Because something is happening here but you don't know what it is, do you? 14 words. Dylan. 15. Done.

[fascisthunter]

52. embrace it... its a populist economic uprising against Wall Street

enjoy

[crazyjoe]

57. because it's a fun thing to do with your buddies after a few brews.

[yawnmaster]

58. To create an economic utopia or...

maybe just to find someone with a like mind to hook up with?

[The Second Stone]

62. They are expressing disgust at criminality and greed

in our banking and investment system.

[tcaudilllg]

63. Justice in short term, mobilization of labor long term

Although I still expect to see the NYSE rushed in mid-day trading sometime next year.

[Sanity Claws]

64. To end the regime of the corporations and to force the prosecution of

the banksters who crashed our economy

[xiamiam]

65. there is an interactive vote at this link with a list of demands from anonymous

http://coupmedia.org/occupywallstreet/occupy-wall-stree...

[aquart]

73. Rosa Parks was tired and wanted to sit down.

That was her goal. She was trying to get off her feet.

You are also looking at Tahrir from hindsight.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

75. +1,000 n/t

[KurtNYC]

79. Parks worked for the NAACP at the time

they created a simple story and got progress on one issue

[jwirr]

76. To draw attention to the corruption of the corporate world of Wall Street.

[MoonRiver]

80. ACCOUNTABILITY

[girl gone mad]

81. To start a dialogue about who controls wealth in our economy. n/t

[Octafish]

82. The goal for occupying Wall Street is to create national policies that put people ahead of profits.

Sorry. That's 17 words, I think.

An Edit:

The goal is to create national policies that put people ahead of profits.

13.

[Generic Other]

83. TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH

Make them pay. TAX THE RICH. Send this message: FREEDOM from our corporate masters. FREEDOM from corporate corruption and greed. TAX THE RICH. TAX THE RICH.

[county worker]

84. To increase the awareness that the American Dream is slipping away from

young people and to work toward a better life for people like us who sit on our ass and criticize them for trying!

[a simple pattern]

87. We are bringing about the change we want to see in the world,

based on human need and sustainability, not corporate greed.

-Jason Ahmadi

sorry if too long for ya

[coalition_unwilling]

91. To transform the working class from a class in itself to a class for

itself.

15 words exactly.

BTW: Grammar Nazi here, the correct phrasing is 'In 15 words or fewer' (since words are discrete countable entities :)

[KurtNYC]

93. To create an offline (and online) horizontally organized process

in the form of General Assemblies.

- NYC General Assembly and Ad Busters.

http://nycga.cc/who-we-are/

[Cali_Democrat]

94. Structural reform of our economic system. n/t

[bluestate10]

97. The theme should be the failure of Wall Street to invest in american after

being saved by american. The protesters should use that simple phrase over and over. It covers the dire situation in housing, outsourcing of jobs as americans became unemployed by the millions, the insane, unjustified downgrade of the US credit rating.

[Mr Gerrity]

101. mmmmmm

I like eggs.

[rbnyc]

104. rescue democracy from corporatism...

...and restore power to the people.

[Occulus]

106. The goal is to dance on the head of the bull.

Think of all the ways that metaphor could apply.

Given the original poster they made for it, I would have thought that was obvious.

[bengalherder]

109. Why the obsessions with having a bumper sticker slogan?

The Declaration of Independence is a laundry list that was slowly distilled by decades of grievances suffered by individuals that banded together to find common cause. Rosa Parks might have had her mantra, but she is just one person. albeit a well-known one, in the struggle for civil rights. Each person within the movement brought their own personal take on why they were there.

And speaking of the civil rights movement, it's momentum was essentially gutted after the assasination of MLK. People around here are asking why this movement has no leaders....well this movement has no leaders because we do not wish to have a single individual at risk. The message is the medium. Ghandi tech. We've had the teachers, we've seen it work elsewhere, and now we can do it on our own.

[MilesColtrane]

110. Hey Johnny, what are you rebelling against?

Whadda you got?

[Xicano]

111. For social and economic justice

n/t

[mdmc]

112. awake

[deminks]

113. Three words, Occupy Wall Street. nt.

[Major Hogwash]

115. "To save the Middle Class in America."

I think that is what Michael Moore said on Lawrence O'Donnell's program last night.
Now today, in it's 13th day.

If they don't get the attention of Congress, then there won't be an America like there was in the 1950s.

It will be like America of the 1850s, headed for Civil War.

[FreeJoe]

119. I have mixed feelings

I see it more as a statement of outrage than a request for specific changes. It is an outpouring of anger over the status quo. If it resonates with people, it will start to crystalize into a movement with goals. At this point, I'm watching with hope. I hope that it grows and results in what I would consider reasonable changes.

I have mixed feelings. I support capitalism in general. I just think we need to do a much better job of regulating it. I've worked far too long and have accumulated far too much in my pension, my savings, and my investments to support a complete overthrow of our economic system. On the other hand, I'm tired of watching people keep adjusting the rules to skim more and more every year. If this movement goes in the direction of anarchy and becomes a movement to completely overturn our economic system, I'll end up fighting against it. If this movement goes in the direction of reforming the existing system, I'll end up fighting for it. Time will tell.

[KurtNYC]

120. I think I got my answer

This explained a lot:

"New York City General Assemblies are an open, participatory and horizontally organized process through which we are building the capacity to constitute ourselves in public as autonomous collective forces within and against the constant crises of our times"

http://nycga.cc/who-we-are /

I think it is a very interesting concept and an evolution of what social organizing can be. This is the online generation expanding into the offline world -- occupying public space physically. The MSM is dead to them; it has no participatory role in horizontal organizing. 40 years ago it was all about getting on the 6:30 news with one message and 45 seconds of footage -- this is generation has been liberated from the tyranny of MSM "news" (paradoxically the biggest pool of potential converts and joiners are addicted to cable news).

Here is another tid bit I found enlightening:
http://www.seedsforchange.org.uk/free/handsig.pdf

Perhaps there is video of the hand signals in use; I haven't seen it. This is type of process is new to most people and I think the MSM should cover this milestone in the online generation. There is a mix of online and offline communication going on -- the MSM so far seems to be kind of a confused spectator. This is big messy democracy in a new form.

The MSM is not a democratic medium -- it is a one to many model. This is many to many -- just like the internet. That is the change this protest is bringing -- participatory democracy that is not controlled by the MSM.

I hope that others who are interested enough will learn more about the process which is being created and the methods for public meetings which are being taught. Confusion in the MSM (and here) may motivate people to do their OWN research or just go and see it for themselves.

[Nye Bevan]

122. To show The Man that they won't take it anymore (nt)

[Gin]

124. they are planting the seed....it is starting to come together...

more and more are paying attention..

MM said this and I like it....

100 protestors arrested but not 1 wall street crook gone to jail..

[Nye Bevan]

125. Madoff was acqiitted? (nt)

[XanaDUer]

126. ?

Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.

Or does it explode?

[Cleita]

129. End corporate fascism in America. n/t

[proud patriot]

130. To End Corproate Personhood

[Odin2005]

131. Crush the Banksters!