Should I feel guilty because I was born white?

[William769]

Just asking.

[Electric Monk]

1. Sure, go for it

Let me know how that works out for ya.

[slackmaster]

2. Only if you really want to.

The choice is yours.

[seabeyond]

3. as i told white male sons when they were LITTLE asking this question. can acknowledge, recognize

the privilige they have simply by being born white male. that will take them a long way in this whole thing. and really, we needed just one conversation of white male guilt for them to get it and put it into perspective.

[Dappleganger]

Cool.

I told mine they were just lucky to be born. ;)

[seabeyond]

33. lol lol bah hahahha

oh, that is funny. lol. i like.

[Bluebear]

4. Stop after "born".

:)

[rbnyc]

104. Right on.

LOL

[Fla_Democrat]

5. -_-

:eyes:

[Obamanaut]

6. You can feel guilty about anything you want to. nt

[blondeatlast]

7. No, but as for your other attributes (especially rhetorical), I'll reserve comment. nt

[superduperfarleft]

8. Yes, you should be ashamed of yourself. n/t

[FrenchieCat]

9. You should only be mindful of the privilege being born White comes with....

If you are already doing that, than I don't feel that guilt needs to play a role
in what you did not choose.

[William769]

10. Is that anything like the privilege of being born Heterosexual?

[whathehell]

37. Maybe like the privilege of being born Male.

[slackmaster]

12. The interest-free loans that you never have to pay back come in handy

And all the free food and beverages everywhere you go.

[Vickers]

82. Yeah, the bennies are AWESOME!!!

:headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang:

[Brilliantrocket]

28. This is total B.S.

The whole idea of white privilege is total bunk. Why is it only whites who have privilege? If you are a Chinese person in China do you have Chinese privilege? If you're part of the majority you don't have any special privilege, you're just part of the majority. There was a list of the 20 white privileges circulating around here some time ago and out of 20 the author made 1 good point. Discrimination regarding loans. That I could see in a very limited way, but even then it's more about how you present yourself and speak.

[seabeyond]

35. ya, much better to bury head in sand when reality is so clearly otherwise. i am white. i recognize

it is a given. anyone who tells me it isnt true is either stupid or pretending.

[Brilliantrocket]

45. Show me

As a white male what privilege will I receive in life? The only one I can possibly see is getting something ( a job, a loan) from a racist.

[seabeyond]

47. oh, there is just too many. it is all over in life. everywhere. inherent in the fabricate of

society.

if you are a grown up and you have yet to recognize, i gotta figure you are not very insightful.

[Brilliantrocket]

51. Alright play the game of "it's obvious"

I'm sorry ,but I don't see any privilege SOLELY stemming from the fact that I'm white. Don't feed me the wealth inequality, poor transcends race.

[ThatPoetGuy]

62. See here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=202388&mesg_id=202689

[ThatPoetGuy]

59. +1.

I'm white and poor. My best friend is black and a lawyer. When we're out together, I'm the one who stands on the curb hailing a cab. Because cabs don't stop for him as often. We learned this over years. He earns over $200,000 a year. I earn about $20k.

If he shows up at a cafe and waits for me, the waitpeople often haven't served him when I arrive. If I show up first, the waitpeople serve me right away.

When we were in college, he was sitting on the roof of his own apartment building in a lawn chair, reading Shakespeare for class. Someone called the police because there was a scary black man on the roof. He didn't have his ID on him, and the police wouldn't let him go get it from his apartment. They arrested him for vagrancy. (Hence his decision to become a lawyer.)

If neighbors had seen me on the roof, no one would have called the police. If the police had arrived, they wouldn't have assumed I was vagrant.

When his daughter was six, she went to play with a (white) friend, and the other girl told her that her mom always hid her jewelry before she came over.

I dress pretty well, so when people meet me, they assume I have a degree of culture -- that I'm "well-bred." When my friend meets people, he has to prove it to them, even though we wear similar clothing.

When I'm leaving a store and the alarm goes off, the security guards wave me through. They don't wave him through.

I once went to a diner with a white friend. There was a sign up that said all bills must be paid when you order your food. We ordered our food, I tried to pay, and the waitress told us we could pay at the end. Two minutes later, a black couple came in. They ordered their food, and the waitress made them pay before they brought their food.

And on and on and on, pervading a million small aspects of life. That's how privilege works. You don't notice your privileges until you see how the less privileged live. My eyesight is a privilege, and I wouldn't even think about it unless I thought about blind people. And on and on and on.

[blondeatlast]

68. +1. I'm a lily-white woman, and my ex-husband was dark-skinned. all kinds of "little" things

happened to us while together that didn't happen when I was alone. Looks, rudeness, whispers, outright, blatant racism.

[seabeyond]

77. +1. being as old as i am, i see it so much, for so long, i cannot believe there really is a person

alive, white or black that does not see.

appreciate your post

[Number23]

88. Thank you for this post. I fear the message will be lost on those who so desperately need it most

But I appreciate you writing it anyway.

Other minorities, particularly Hispanics and Arabs, are starting to come up with similar stories.

[Boojatta]

99. Did your friend have no right to expect better treatment?

When we were in college, he was sitting on the roof of his own apartment building in a lawn chair, reading Shakespeare for class. Someone called the police because there was a scary black man on the roof. He didn't have his ID on him, and the police wouldn't let him go get it from his apartment. They arrested him for vagrancy.

If they hadn't arrested him, would you say that he was privileged?

That's how privilege works. You don't notice your privileges until you see how the less privileged live.

Privileges can be revoked without violating rights. I think that it's odd to speak of people as "privileged" simply because their rights aren't being violated. Among the people you have described, the only privileged ones are the police.

[ThatPoetGuy]

122. Your word salad would be better with vinaigrette.

Care to make your point in a manner that other human beings can follow?

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

67. Didn't you know there's a sarcasm smiley? People might think...

...you're serious.

[Brilliantrocket]

74. See my post #73

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

86. Gottit. I was trying to encourage you because it needed more.

:)

[treestar]

78. The history of the US is not like the history of China

as to China, we may not know, there may be groups with privilege.

But look at the history of the US and you can see white privilege easily. Take immigrants from Ireland, at first treated as lower class but able to work their way in and assimilate completely.

[AsahinaKimi]

123. actually..

In China, everyone born there is Chinese. There are few non-Asians and those that are not Asians, probably are treated differently then the average Chinese. Its a poor example because the USA is multi-racial and multi-cultural. But, I suspect you probably knew that...

[Brilliantrocket]

11. The concept of white guilt doesn't make sense to me

Unless your family held slaves, maybe you would feel guilty , and even then you did nothing wrong. Why would you feel guilt over something you had no control over?

[William769]

18. Because of people painting with a broad brush that just happens to include me.

Is just sickening. It also isn't working. But I thought I would ask the question anyway.

[seabeyond]

22. you really werent interested in an answer where you. at all. what was your op about?

a little whine about the poor pick upon white male?

[William769]

26. Thanks.

[Electric Monk]

30. Egg Zackly

:nopity:

[blondeatlast]

31. Precisely. nt

[Number23]

89. lol Go get'em, seabeyond!

:rofl: :thumbsup:

[marmar]

90. selfdelete, responded to wrong post

nt

[seabeyond]

19. the fact still remains being white and male entitles priviliges that make life easier, better

for you.

not about slave days. it is well and alive today. guilt does nothing. wont stop it from happening. it is inherent in society. recognizing these priviliges leads to better understanding. that is the good it does.

[Brilliantrocket]

36. Disagree

Being committed to succeed makes life better. As a white male I haven't seen a single goddamn privilege that I couldn't see someone of a different race getting as well.

[seabeyond]

43. as a white i readily see it. as a male i watch with the men in my life. for you to pretend

otherwise just shows... well, any number of things. my kids get it. recongize it. acknowledge it. discuss it.

yet you dont see it. truly amazing....

[Brilliantrocket]

55. I'm sorry that I cannot see something that isn't there.

Tell me something that I have as being white that a Mexican does not have in Mexico, a Japanese person does not have in Japan. Something INHERENTLY white.

[Bill McBlueState]

57. this is the second time you've conflated nationality with race

I'm not sure why you do it, but it obscures rather than illuminates any point you're trying to make.

[Brilliantrocket]

73. The point I'm making is

The majority group in any country will generally hold most of the assets. Any perceived privilege I get stems from the fact that whites happen to be a majority in this country. Railing against white privilege is equal to railing against the fact that whites are the majority. It just doesn't make sense. If blacks happened to be the majority you'd be yelling about black privilege. What's the point in yelling about something that is just a fact of society. When I say ,fact, I say the perceived privilege , which stems from some racism within the white community. Not all white people are racist, most would give equal consideration to a candidate of any race for a job. So what you are really all upset about is racism which is nothing new. Why make those of us who aren't racist feel guilty because others are? White privilege is really just a way make people feel guilty over something that they shouldn't.

What isn't clear here? If 5% of whites are racist that doesn't mean you need to find a way to make the other 95% feel shame over it. Feel shame over your own mistakes. Feeling shame over the mistakes of someone who is "part of your group" makes no sense. It's unhealthy and will only cause things to get worse rather then better. In my opinion the concept of white guilt serves to separate us rather than bring us together. It causes feelings of ill will towards the 95% who are innocent because of the actions of the 5%. Call it racism ,but don't call my "race" racist because 5% are racist. White privilege serves to create a feeling that all whites are responsible for the racism of a few.

[ThatPoetGuy]

65. You're paying attention to the wrong things. nt.

[MrScorpio]

92. The magic of being white in America means that you never have to say that you're sorry

I see that you're currently availing yourself of that privilege.

[beltanefauve]

116. Really?

Take two identical resume`s. Then change them in name only, say, "John Murphy", and "Jamal Murphy". Jamal will consistently NOT get the job. This experiment has been conducted over and over, netting the same results.

[Hugabear]

118. i see...just pull yourself up by your bootstraps, eh?

Where have I heard this before...

[csziggy]

114. I do come from families whose ancestors owned slaves

I've thought about it and since I can't go back in time to change things, why do I feel guilt for their choices? I really do not understand, either - one man came over with his parents and were indentured servants to pay for their passage. His parents died while in servitude. But as soon as he could, he owned slaves. How could he have been only a small step above slave and later owned them. A minister ancestor was one of the larger slave owners in his county. How could he teach Christ's word and held people in bondage? One family I found is descended from a slave owned by my ancestors. He could have been a son of my ancestor. I am not sure how to feel about this.

I had no control over their lives but it still bothers me. The best I can do is to not continue the racism and to help all people I meet to live the best lives they can.

[damntexdem]

13. No, not for being born white; but you have chosen to remain white.

;-)

Someday society may be able to get over skin color.

[ZombieHorde]

14. No, you should guilty for the people you keep in the trunk of your car.

That's just fucked up.

[Crabby Appleton]

15. Yes, being white is all your fault. nt

[blondeatlast]

16. Yes, YOU should so I don't trouble my own beautiful mind about it. Thanks! nt

[uppityperson]

17. if it makes you happy. eom

[virgogal]

20. Of course,and you can probably get a hairshirt for a great price

at a post holiday sale.

[azurnoir]

21. Depends have you ever knowingly used it to your 'advantage'?

if yes then you should feel guilty about that, however if not then no and you can use it for the betterment too ya know

ps I am the mother of 4 kids 3 bi-racial daughters by my first husband and one white son by my second

[Starry Messenger]

23. Whut?

What kind of question is that?

[seabeyond]

29. i am thinking it is the po white male me thread. nt

[Catherina]

24. Please, knock yourself out, but do it in silence please. n/t

[aquart]

25. Defensive much?

Just remember that comment after you start seeing the results of sun damage.

[blondeatlast]

27. Sackcloth and ashes bring out your eyes so well, so yes. nt

[we can do it]

32. Only If You Are a Bigotted Idiot, Too.....(You Asked)

[leftstreet]

34. also...why do you need a driver's license to buy booze if you can't drink and drive?

:shrug:

[Alexander]

38. IBTL

[svsuman23]

39. depends, if you are a conservative then no.

[LynneSin]

40. No but acting all uppity like 'you' have the better skin color isn't going to work anymore

Not that you do it but other white folks who personally, I think realize that they are soon going to be the minority in this country and are trying to flap their wings one last time to show their so-called 'superiority'

BTW when I say 'you' it's to any white person who somehow still feels they are superior to other races and not the original poster.

[Cerridwen]

41. No. Nor special, either. n/t

[steve2470]

42. somehow this feels from the other side of the spectrum...nt

[JoePhilly]

44. My first thought was ... "Who is asking you to feel guilty?"

But I tossed that aside ...

As a white guy myself, I find that both "white guilt", and "white anger at minorities" are equally silly.

With regard to the first, you are only guilty of action you perform.

With regard to the second ... if you are a white person who is not as successful as you think you should be ... guess what ... the problem isn't minorities, its the person you see in the mirror each morning.

I have found that being a white guys doesn't immediately open doors for me, but it does tend to prevent doors from being slammed in my face. Rather than feel guilty about this, I make sure that in my own dealings with minorities, I won't slam the door in their face, and I may even hold it open. Which is the polite thing to do.

[seabeyond]

46. +1. thank you joe. nt

[blondeatlast]

48. Funny, I don't hear a dog whistle... nt

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

49. No, but if you can't at least capitalize on your white-privilege, then you should probably feel bad.

So:
Guilty... no
Bad... possibly

[GSLevel9]

50. ahhhh... NO. As you shouldn't feel envious if you're NOT born white. nt

[William769]

52. + 1,000.

[blondeatlast]

54. So you only care to respond to those who agree with you? Check. nt

[William769]

58. You just don't get it and I expect you never will.

I respond to the whole sentence. Not just what I wanted to see like some people do.

[blondeatlast]

61. Lovely website you have there. Love the colors. nt

[William769]

63. Thank you.

It's a work in progress.

[blondeatlast]

64. I guess. nt

[William769]

66. HA HA.

[blondeatlast]

69. Thanks, you're adorable. nt

[William769]

70. I do my best.

[PufPuf23]

53. No body asks to be born. If you are a bigot, yes. nt

[Xenotime]

56. Yes.

[lunatica]

60. I don't see why not

Everyone should feel guilty about something totally out of their power to change.

[Bucky]

71. Um, the white people just called. They asked that you quit identifying as one of them.

Please hand back in your whiteness card at your closest country club.

(Good news, though, you don't have to wear the plaid golf pants any more)

[MellowDem]

72. Who's saying you should?

White guilt is a silly and self-destructive idea, as is any idea that makes one feel bad about things that they can't change, like skin color.

One day "white guilt" will sound as silly as saying "brown-eyed guilt" or "brunette guilt".

Whatever your personal situation and background, just recognize the privileges you have and the obstacles you face in the world around you because of things you have no control over, and then try to create a world that gives more equal opportunities for everyone regardless of the factors they cannot control.

[JoePhilly]

75. Depends, did YOU invent DISCO???

If so, then YES!!!

[William769]

76. I wished!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

79. No, but you should be aware of the advantages it gives you over other people.

[Codeine]

80. I'm glad I'm white. It made the whole teenage Goth phase much easier.

:evilgrin:

[blondeatlast]

102. LOLOLOLOLOLOL. nt

[Rebubula]

81. Guilt

Guilt is a dumb emotion when tied to things that you have NO CONTROL OVER!

Unless you do something wrong - why feel guilty.

There have been a lot of good white people in this world - a lot of bad ones too
There have been a lot of good black people in this world - a lot of bad ones too
There have been a lot of good Asian people in this world - a lot of bad ones too
There...well, you get the point.


And an Hearty UNREC for a silly OP.

[Warren DeMontague]

83. No, you should feel guilty because you masturbate.

Sinner.

[William769]

84. Yes I do, and no I don't.

[Warren DeMontague]

85. I think guilt is overrated, anyway.

In my experience, the very small sliver of the population that actually should feel guilty about things are the people who invariably don't feel guilty about anything.

[Ozymanithrax]

87. You are not responsible for the color of your skin...

So that answer is no.

You should feel responsible for our own actions, or those things that you allow to happen because you do not speak out against them.

[marmar]

91. What prompted this post?

nt

[William769]

93. Several post that I have seen over the past several days

Painting with a very broad brush.

[Electric Monk]

96. So, you're essentially trying to call someone out without really calling them out directly?

I'm surprised this thread has lasted this long...

[cynatnite]

94. Just when I thought I had read everything here at DU. n/t

[William769]

95. Ditto.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=203134&mesg_id=203134

[cynatnite]

98. You've never read anyone questioning gun ownership and citizenship here at DU before? n/t

[jeffrey_X]

97. No. You should just have a thorough understanding of our history

eom

[tomhaverford]

100. Louis CK has a great bit on this

Louis CK has a great bit on this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY. So yes, feel guilty.

[seabeyond]

106. i have seen that before. yes... exactly. though boys get it, i think i will let them watch this

tonight.

thanks.

[steve2470]

101. Restated: Do you favor affirmative action ?

Close enough ?

[William769]

117. Yes I do.

[11 Bravo]

103. I don't, but by all means, knock yourself out.

[NNN0LHI]

105. Kiss what?

This is flame bait.

Don

[lumberjack_jeff]

107. No. You should feel guilty for being a troll. n/t

[Pisces]

108. +1

[WillyT]

109. White ... What Is THAT ??

:shrug:

[Nye Bevan]

110. No. Your skin color may differ from that of our President.

But that's OK.

[NoGOPZone]

111. Should I feel guilty for hiding this thread? nt

[LisaL]

112. If you don't yet and keep posting here, you will in no time.

[seabeyond]

115. wow, i have been posting years and years and i dont feel guilt. overly sensitive?

easily influenced?

[mmonk]

113. No. Every person is a gift regardless of color.

I grew up in the south. However, my parents did not infect me with southern racism. Imagine that. I will be forever indebted to them for being different from the southern culture I grew in. It could be they were aware of the hatred in the DNA down here because we were not southern fundamentalist Protestants (nothing against Protestantism but to be born different in the South is to learn others hold you in contempt for being different, as something inferior).

[badtoworse]

119. I'm very comfortable in my own skin. No guilt whatsoever.

[Malikshah]

120. No. But you should feel guilty for touching yourself.

Seriously. You'll go blind. And your ancestors and first grade teach are watching in abject horror.

[Withywindle]

121. No, but you should feel guilty for wallowing in ignorance.

"White privilege" does not mean that every white person ever always gets the best table.

Read this and THINK about it. Examine your own life in the light of it. Seriously. You don't have to do it in one day - it's better if you don't. Take time with it. Live with it. If it makes you angry at first, leave it and come back later.

http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html


And if you have any real friends* who are black, or female, or LGBT (or any combination of the above)...then LISTEN when they talk about shitty things that happen to them just because of who they are, and take them seriously. Don't get defensive and don't take it personally - that's narcissistic behavior, because it's not ABOUT you. Really accept the idea that they experience the world differently in many, many ways. Be willing to learn. This isn't about "guilt," which is a useless emotion that helps no one. It's about empathy, and it's also about humility--realizing that your perspective is not THE WAY THE WORLD REALLY IS, it's only the way YOU think it is. We are all shaped by our experiences. Yours are not the universal standard.



*by real friends, I don't mean co-workers or drinking buddies or acquaintances. I mean people you can talk about difficult things with, and have done for years.

[fishwax]

124. recognizing you have advantages in our culture that non-whites don't doesn't require guilt

just as it doesn't require one to ignore other axes of inequality, such as class.

[roody]

125. No.

[AsahinaKimi]

126. From the Tao te Ching about guilt...

...Shame and guilt are illusions that help to bind us to those standards. When we fail to meet them, guilt and shame are a system of punishment enacted to encourage us to "do better" next time. So let go of those standards. Let go of guilt and shame. Stop trying to be who and what you think you should be, or what others think you should be, and start being who and what you really are.

http://path-of-water.blogspot.com/2010/06/taoism-and-guilt-or-shame.html

[Major Hogwash]

129. Great post.

I learn so much from reading this forum.

[ismnotwasm]

127. You should feel responsibility

To end racism, not guilt.

[gardenista]

128. guilty is as guilty does

So at this point, what you should feel guilty about is being a douche.