Pepper spray is banned for use in war

[Ichingcarpenter]

Legality

Pepper spray is banned for use in war by Article I.5 of the Chemical Weapons Convention which bans the use of all riot control agents in warfare whether lethal or non-lethal. In the US, when pepper spray is used in the workplace, OSHA requires a pepper spray MSDS be available to all employees .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_Spray#Legality


Well you learn something every day

[TheWraith]

1. So are expanding or hollow point bullets, which are also standard police issue.

It seems strange to me that one kind of bullet is considered humane, and another isn't; meanwhile a grenade which produces tear gas to clear a room is banned, while one that does the same job with shrapnel is okay.

[Nostradammit]

2. Way to obscure the point!

[TheWraith]

3. Oh, there was a point in there somewhere?

Because it seemed to me that a piece of semi-random information was being taken out of context for the entertainment of insomniac forum readers.

[pintobean]

5. This is Fargin War!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLcNdkfPG5M

[Nostradammit]

16. The point being that a New York City police officer used a weapon

on innocent protesters that has been banned from use in warfare.

It is a salient and cogent point but it doesn't surprise me that it was lost on you.

[dixiegrrrrl]

4. It seems strange to me that violence towards others has so many "rules"

most of which are ignored by people involved, and then argued about in courts for decades,
the "defendants" being the "losers" of said wars.

The real victims are those killed, maimed, tortured, made refugees, of course.

[Ichingcarpenter]

6. The irony I found was that its legal for almost all international police agencies

to use against civilians but not in war against another nation.

[greytdemocrat]

7. That is hilarious. n/t

[BoWanZi]

11. A policeman is shooting to kill, not injure with a wound that is theoretically easy to repair

A hollowpoint bullet is design to kill someone, not just go though and though. The roundnose bullet that is allowed by conventions is put in place to prevent much more horrible injuries to the soldiers that hollowpoints would do. If you shoot a soldier with a roundnose bullet, the injury should be pretty clean and through and through. You shoot a criminal with a hollowpoint, the bullet expands and destroys a huge amount of tissue on its way in to the human body. Much harder for doctors to repair damage caused by hollowpoints rather than roundnose bullets.

[Lurks Often]

13. Not sure where you got your information, but you are wrong

Note, my comments are referring to ammo used for military, self defense and law enforcement purposes.

Death from a bullet is caused by one of two things: loss of blood or a hit to the central nervous system (head or high up on the spine).

A hollow point is designed to go in a specified distance (12"-14" is the current standard) while expanding, staying in the body and stopping the attacker. And yes, sometimes stopping the attacker does result in the attacker's death.

Depending on the caliber current military ammo either tumbles upon entering the body, creating a larger wound track (5.56, 5.45x39) or penetrates all the way through (7.62 Nato, 7.62x54R and the various sniper rifle calibers). Military pistol ammo will normally go all the way through.

A dead enemy combatant is good and a wounded one is nearly as good, as a wounded combatant (normally) requires the enemy to expend time, people and resources transporting and caring for the wounded soldier.

For those of you who doubt me, take 2 two liter bottles, fill them with water, screw the caps back on tight and them using a screw driver or ice pick or something else that will make a round hole, poke a single hole in one of the bottles in the side near the bottom.

With the other two liter bottle, poke 2 holes at the same height as you poked in the first bottle.

See which one drains of water faster. While this is an oversimplification, as the human body is more complex, this does illustrate that a through and through bullet wound will cause quicker blood loss then a single hole.

[BoWanZi]

14. I wasn't talking about rifle ammo, thats a whole nother ball of wax, I did find this info:

"Despite the ban on military use, hollow-point bullets are one of the most common types of civilian and police ammunition, due largely to the reduced risk of bystanders being hit by over-penetrating or ricocheted bullets, and the increased speed of incapacitation"

Increased speed of incapacitation is the key point. A roundnose pistol bullet will go through and through and possibly ricochet whereas the hollowpoint hopefully stops the criminal in his tracks quite often resulting in their death.

[TheWraith]

15. You're correct. Military ammo is in no way designed to be less lethal.

The idea that the military is "shooting to wound" is a popular myth, but a myth nonetheless, no doubt based on the fact that it really does take more resources to care for a wounded fighter than a dead one.

One of the other big reasons that the military uses FMJ, and police use hollow points, is armor. Even weak body armor will stop a hollow point bullet, whereas FMJ will go right through it. Meanwhile a police officer shooting at a criminal with FMJ is running a much greater risk of ricochets or the bullets going through the perp and hitting someone beyond him. This is particularly true in urban areas where you have lots of straight, flat surfaces. A hollowpoint is less likely to go through, and far less likely to retain it's energy in the event of a ricochet.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

8. I don't know why

Pepper spray, for all the debate about when it should be used which is an entirely different issue, is still the safest way to subdue someone.

[Ichingcarpenter]

10. But its illegal to use in war

Oh, I get it now........

[ProgressiveProfessor]

12. Different purposes, different rules

[pintobean]

9. If only Anwar al-Awlaki had used it.......

:evilgrin: