So the Ron Paul people are going to Occupy Wallstreet tomorrow

[Turn CO Blue]

I apologize if this has already been posted, but apparently the Ron Paul people are getting out the message that they want to utterly usurp the Occupy Wallstreet movement, and their people are going out there to "educate" the "lost" masses about how the real anger should be directed at the Federal Reserve (help me, sigh.)

They're also trying to turn it into a rally to support Ron Paul. Guess they see a growing group of people who are frustrated, angry and MOTIVATED and of course, they want to steal it.

They also tell their supporters to look nice (assuming they should "dress up" and are implying that they will be easily distinguished from I guess, the "dirty hippies" or something...sigh) The hubris of this just sickens me.

Anyway, get the word out.

Here is what my irritating Libertarian brother posted on Facebook:
TOMORROW Ron Paul supporters in NYC will be taking Occupy Wall Street and pointing it in the Right Direction....OCCUPY THE FED! That is where the anger should be directed! Educate these lost masses and show them who the real criminals are! (oh and dress nice lol --inside joke)

And here is the link to their rally page on Facebook, (the boneheads):
<http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=143389702420661>

IMHO, we need more union and our own "dressed up" people to show up and I would say there needs to be some information about the illegality of the banks and why they should be regulated (failure to do so caused this worldwide collapse) and held to account (even Enron people were prosecuted) - and keep this movement about the banksters/financial criminals and the 99% - not about the gold standard and the Fed and all that other junk.

Wish I were there... I would have flyers made about the REAL issues and try to TURN the Libertarians around in the correct direction - after all they're frustrated and angry too! Sigh, if only I had the time. Since, I am the struggling 99% - I have to work today and tomorrow - rent is due soon, you know.

Turn CO Blue

[IndyPragmatist]

1. So they support the cause, but they are boneheads?

Ron Paul supporters showing up will give this some coverage.

[abelenkpe]

6. F Ron Paul!

He's a bigoted sack anyone who thinks he's OK is a bonehead.

[Turn CO Blue]

10. NO, they don't "support the cause". They want to CHANGE it

and warp it in to something else entirely. Get it?

and Yes, Libertarian philosophy is sociopathic in many ways, and Ron Paul supporters are in general (grand brushstokes, I admit) boneheads. Have you met any? Oh wait...I get it.

Any other questions?

[vets74]

50. THE FED spawned Big Bubble I (1994-2000) & Big Bubble II (2003-2008) - major redistribution engines

Add the Reagan and Bush tax giveaways for a total $17-trillion theft from the Middle Class.

The whole effing country books at $55-trillion. They stole 30% of it.

Most all of it went to the Top 1% By Wealth.

(Screw "By Income" bull stats. "By Wealth" is all that matters.)

Now that's not the story this $$$whore Ron Paul gives his trusty band of Conspiracy Theory "libertarians."

Nonetheless, The Fed is still busy kicking out below-inflation ZIRP Zero Interest Rate Policy floods of cash that goes to let Financial Capitalism buy up ownership of Productive Capitalism organizations and/or their debt contracts.

The Fed is operated by the banks.

__________________________________________

Please, let me introduce another similar problem. That's the rating agencies for bonds. Well, the problem is with how these rating agencies are paid -- and how they are chosen to do more work.

Fitch, Moodys, S&P.

The wrong people are paying them.

The wrong people are choosing who gets what business.

The wrong people benefit when the rating agencies lie.

Employee bonuses drive damn near everything -- GENERATE REVENUE is the only thing.

That "problem" led to bribery on the grand scale and massive RICO-eligible conspiracies during Big Bubble II (2003-2008).

___________________________________________

Well, The Fed's revolving doors and every career perk anywhere near banking come from the banks.

The Fed is training for a banking supercareer.

Wanna be a multimillionaire without inheriting a dime ? Not hard to figure where to go.

The Fed's employees are paid/elevated to major positions by the wrong people.

The Fed works like the rating agencies.

_______________________________________________

To that extent the CT stuff coming out of Ron Paul is accurate. The Fed has been corrupt for two decades.

Why it's corrupt... is that the banking system is corrupt.

Plus, presidents have to have iron balls to go to war with the ever-more-concentrated Big Banks.

Ron Paul ??? He is either a liar or he doesn't know enough about finance and macroeconomics to earn an interview -- not with any Investment Banking division on the street. On any street.

His people might be educable.

They're running on slogans. Right-brain pattern recognition foolery/fuckery. Doesn't mean they can't think.

I'll see about it tomorrow. At OWS NYC.

[StarsInHerHair]

53. like cancer

[xchrom]

12. They don't support the cause. Hence the OP. Nt

[Zorra]

63. Coverage of Paul supporters is not good media. I'm afraid the PTB media will focus on Pau

Paul's message, which is not the message that the protesters want to send, in an attempt to mislead the public about the true nature of the the protest.

This could be a trick, and may need to be countered somehow.

One idea: Any Paul supporters should be identified and should have real protesters, who are briefed and organized, follow the Paul people. When the Paul people get media attention, the protesters should loudly chant the real message and hold up signs spelling out the real reasons for the occupation.

[Blue Owl]

2. That is so totally Ron Paul

:eyes:

[Ikonoklast]

3. Paul supporters always make the same mistake, no matter where they go.

They assume everyone they talk to is stupid.

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. If they want to see stupid, they just need to look in the mirror.

[HughBeaumont]

61. OH yessss . . .

Wife's friend's husband is a Paulite (really just a Friedmanite Republican who's anti war but for all the wrong reasons). He not only talks to you as if you're politically stupid, but doesn't STOP talking. AT all. That's how he operates. Talks and fucking talks and doesn't even get that I'm laughing hard at him inside at his silly bullshit.

[patrick t. cakes]

4. They've been attempting to inflitrate Occupy Portland too,

Parasites trying to co-opt the movement,

Ron Paul is the last person we need at the forefront of this.

[ellisonz]

14. Pretty soon they'll be at full Lyndon Larouche status.

Nice sig image btw.

Take it easy, Big Joe. Some of these people got sensitive feelings!

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Kelly%27s_Heroes

[patrick t. cakes]

44. SGT Oddball

Woof Woof!

[Gregorian]

5. And so their solution might be to privatize and deregulate?

We're mad as hell and we are going to insist that you do more of this kind of thing!

[patrick t. cakes]

8. exactly..........

what the hell are they doing? Publicity stunt. Hopefully the 99%ers will shut them down.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fire Walk With Me]

9. "Save me from the people who would save me from myself. They've got muscles for brains."

-Gang of Four

[HughBeaumont]

11. "Teh corporations aren't teh problem!! Stops playing teh class warfare! "

"Teh Class Warfares never created a job!! Teh gubmit's teh problems!! This is why no one likes you!! Your movement needs an independent voice (albeit one that spends a majority of its time berating only one party . . . the one that, conveniently, doesn't start with an "R")!!"

They're being good efficient participants in the Divide and Conquer game, and the Wealthmonger Republicans are loving it. Paul Republicans, just stay out of this. Keep fellating corporate America, because they're completely innocent of wrongdoing and all . .. :eyes: :eyes:

[banned from Kos]

13. Reinstate the Gold Standard! Lets get back to Sound Money! End the Fed!

Hilarious. Paultards have more in common with the LaRoucheys than they do anyone seeking economic justice.

Maybe Alex Jones will broadcast live!

[JI7]

15. i thought they were already there, there are anarchists there also

[Turn CO Blue]

20. Well, the "usuals" are always at protests...

From my experience you do see the "usuals" at most protests - anarchists, POW-MIA, anti-war, etc...but this seems a little more organized (Facebook website) than that...

[Skidmore]

16. Teabaggers trying to hijack the protest to corrupt it. Period.

[Warren DeMontague]

17. The Answer is EVEN LESS REGULATORY OVERSIGHT!!!!!!!

Oh, for fuckitty fuck's sake.

[Aerows]

18. The "Ron Paul People" are the 99%, too

They have every right to join in, as does everyone else.

There has been a large swath of justice denied. Economic, and otherwise. Who is the arbiter of what justice that has been denied to say which is the most relevant? I certainly won't. They are as welcome as everyone else that believes that justice has been usurped in this nation.

[Turn CO Blue]

21. As I wrote, they're angry and frustrated too

but are misguided. As I wrote, it would be great to discuss the real issues with any of Paul's supporters who show up (yes I know they have the "right" to be there) -- but make no mistake, they are there to move the protest into a different direction.

They have the exact OPPOSITE message of these protests. Libertarians think that LESS regulation of the banks is what is called for and that the banks and insurers didn't do anything wrong with the credit default swap scheme... wrong, wrong, wrong.

Their leaders set this up - it's not grass roots like the Occupy Wallstreet.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if this were some kind of astroturf operation from higher placed (politically, that is) schemers.

[Blue_Tires]

22. I was thinking that as well

The general tone and mission of the FB announcement just SCREAMS "marching orders from up high"

[Aerows]

24. They don't though

They are part of the 99% that has witnessed justice denied, and have as much of a vested interest in restoring Democracy in this country as everyone else.

There are plenty of Ron Paul supporters who have the same goals of social justice as everyone else does. The more the merrier. This isn't about politics, which is the mistake many are making. This is about awareness and justice.

[socialist_n_TN]

47. "This isn't about politics.." WRONG.......

It's about economics and economics is ALWAYS about politics. And power. They are hopelessly entwined. Basic Marx.

[HughBeaumont]

64. SIIIIIGGGGHHH . . .

. . . pretty much all of Paul's supporters are economic laissez-fail Reaganites. They're for the very policies that failed America, love the "boom/bubble/CRASH every seven years" system of Disasternomics and think poor people are poor because they're lazy and stupid.

In fact, by their very statement . .. talking to this brave movement as if they're misguided and stupid . . . they espouse everything wrong with politics and economics as it is today. I mean, am I supposed to relate to people who spend most of their time ripping on one party (hint: the one that doesn't start with an "R"), do nothing but tell me how both parties are pretty much the same, yet don't seem to get that their "markets aren't free ENOUGH" garbage astoundingly assumes sudden benevolence by people who give zero shits about enhancing anyone's coffers but their own?

[woo me with science]

74. "...pretty much all of Paul's supporters are economic laissez-fail Reaganites".... Au contraire.

This is not true anymore. His support is growing fast, and they are not all hardcore libertarians. The core of hardcore libertarians who don't want any government at all have always supported Paul. But the ones joining in droves now often do not fit that description. Many of them are ordinary Americans terrified by what is happening in this country and looking for ANY candidate who promises to take on the banks and end the wars. They are leaping to Paul not because they have hardened political beliefs about libertarianism, but because they are frustrated that the two major parties keep fellating the banks and expanding the wars, and putting their economic needs last on the list of priorities.

Many of them are potential allies. Don't shun them. Reach out to them, and begin a dialogue.

[sufrommich]

76. Most Ron Paul cultists come to him via Ayn Rand. I have to

laugh at the number of leftist on DU who are just positive that a revolution in the US would surely move this country to the left. Wishful thinking to the extreme.

[woo me with science]

77. No, most come to him because they are frustrated that the two major parties

have abandoned them to fellate the banks and fund wars into new countries.

The hardcore libertarians have always supported Paul. Most of these people are leaping to him now for the first time, because they are desperately looking for any candidate who promises to put their interests first.

We need to unite, not divide. Talk to them. Teach them. And pressure OUR party to offer them something for a change. You may find you have more in common with them than you think.

[Blue_Tires]

25. But the point of it is they've been on the sidelines and all of a sudden say

they want to take control and show the people who we should *really* be mad at is condescending as hell.

If they want to join in good faith and be what the cause is about, fine (Which I doubt, since that crowd is about nothing but completely unregulated free markets), but when they start using words like 'lead' and 'take over' it's time for battlestations...

[Aerows]

28. And those with a vested interest won't let them

Have a bit of faith.

Do you honestly think a movement that from the beginning has stated it has no leaders is going to let someone come swinging along and grab the mic? Not going to happen. This is a populist movement, and frankly, there are plenty that were in the tea party before Sarah Palin turned it into a money making machine were part of a populist movement.

That actually works AGAINST it being usurped because people are already aware that it could go that way. That's why the media, et. al. are terrified because there isn't a leader. There is no one to sway.

[Blue_Tires]

38. We'll see...Sadly, very few of the comments on FB have anything to do with solidarity

Most of them are "It's a big crowd that's starting to get attention so might as well make sure our Paul signs get in the shot and bring a lot of campaign handouts and may as well explain why the Fed is bad, too..."

But I'll give them the slight benefit of the doubt...Once (if) they show up, their intentions will be revealed

[tama]

37. +1

[woo me with science]

60. [phone]

This is how we win. By joining together against them.

We will not win if we let them pit us against each other.

[HughBeaumont]

65. Paul supporters even being there are an automatic "pit against".

It's like, I'm down with ending the war on drugs and I'm down with ending the useless wars.

But once they start talking economic matters: POOF!!! They become "gubmit is the probl'm, corporations are yer friends, stop playing the class warfare jealousy card" Ronald Reaganites. And sorry, that's the deal breaker.

They first need to grow up from their childish crybaby nonsense about taxation being "theft by thugs with guns", watch "Inside Job" without laughing or "PFFFT"-ing, stop putting all of the economic problems of this country on the "government" (which is pretty much just their dog whistle for "Tax-n-spend-libs") and stop giving the wealthy and Republican economic policy free passes if they want to find some "common ground".

Until then, they're part of the problem.

[woo me with science]

67. You are responding exactly how Wall Street wants you to respond.

"I'm not going to stand next to a dirty libertarian."

They are stealing from ALL of us. We need ALL of us to stand against them.

Keep in mind, too, that Ron Paul's ranks have been swelling lately because ordinary people are angry, disillusioned with the two major parties, and desperately looking for any candidate who will represent them against the forces that are impoverishing them. Not all of them are hardcore libertarians. Anyone who is angry enough at Wall Street to go down to Manhattan to protest is at least a potential ally. Talk to them.

See my post here: http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2021104#2021198

[HughBeaumont]

69. Wall Street loves that Libertarians with their Reaganite blame-shifting are hijacking OWS's message.

Wall Street will support whatever takes the heat off of THEM. There's being mad for the right reasons and being mad for the WRONG ones. Hyper-capitalism digging its greedy claws in all avenues, government and private, for 30-40 years is to blame for this mess. I'm not going to do anything but laugh at a person who says "This is the fault of Bill Clinton, the government and the Fed. CEOs are doing nothing wrong and they earn what they earn because they work harder than you do and that's what the "markets" dictate. Leave corporations and the markets alone!" I'm supposed to find common ground with THAT?

And no, I'm not going to stand with an ill-informed person who chooses to gravitate among the likes of poor-hating, racist, anti-government (which, AGAIN, is dog-whistle for "I hate liberals and Democrats") anything, hypercapitalist Paulites. If they're so frustrated between the two parties and they're not, as you say, hardcore libertarians, then why aren't they standing with a left-leaning candidate instead of a worse-than-right-wing candidate?

In this case, "the enemy of my enemy is not my friend."

[woo me with science]

73. I won't keep arguing, but I do want to leave you with one additional thought.

Wall Street has, over the past decades, built up a massive structure to oppress and impoverish us. It includes control of the media, the financial system, and the electoral system.

Taking back our power is going to have to mean a revolution of the people at some point. That means joining hands with some people who do not agree with you on every issue.

Robert Reich made a very nice little video about our economic crisis and posted it on youtube. One important part of the video was a line drawing he made of a Republican and a Democrat pointing at each other and yelling, while a rich man picks both of their pockets.

Their control right now is huge, and they are stealing from ALL of us. We are going to need to unite, not on every issue, but on the important ones, like criminal investigations of the banks and auditing of the Federal Reserve, in order to defeat them. We should be focused now on finding reasons to unite, not reasons to stay fragmented while they impoverish us.

Take care.

[asjr]

19. We have become such a laughing stock

in the eyes of the world.

[ixion]

23. Good. The more the better. I seriously doubt they're going to 'usurp' anything.

[Aerows]

32. Exactly.

The more, the merrier.

[girl gone mad]

35. Yeah, I don't see the problem.

The Federal Reserve does deserve scrutiny. Regulatory capture is a huge issue. They have a right to add their voices.

[OHdem10]

26. If the Democratic Party miss this opportunity they deserve any

losses they get.

I hope Unions get a move on.

[Aerows]

30. Unions already are

I suspect that as this gains momentum, some of the naysayers will back off a bit. There is a lot of fear that this will cause upheaval. Well, all change does cause upheaval - that's the entire purpose for it. Dialogue with those that you "oppose" doesn't cause adversaries - sometimes it creates allies.

[provis99]

27. will they be shouting "Who is John Galt?"

and making dollar signs in the air with their fingers?

[saras]

36. If they do, I'm sure someone will answer correctly

He is a fictional character from a piece of third-rate propaganda which still has a cult following.

[dameocrat67]

29. They have coopted the antiwar movement and the antiwallstreet movement

already.

[Aerows]

31. Who? The 99%?

Just curious who you mean, because it looks to me like the Occupy Wall Street gang is standing there by themselves.

[War Horse]

33. The Paulians/Randians are part of the problem

or at the very least a symptom of the disease

[tama]

40. We are all symptoms

Wea are all part of Babylon, so in that sense there is no "us against them". We are getting healed, learning together to heal ourselves. Revolution = evolution.

[TBF]

34. If they are in solidarity with workers then welcome them in -

if not put them to work, it couldn't hurt. Maybe they can dish out pizza and so forth.

[banned from Kos]

39. Solidarity with workers? Paultards don't even support a minimum wage.

They don't support the FDIC!

They think you should buy your own deposit insurance in case your bank fails.

They are the worst.

[leftstreet]

41. So they're going to Wall Street to demand a lower minimum wage?

lol

[Turn CO Blue]

43. LOL

[abelenkpe]

48. Libertarians have solidarity with workers

LOL

they are against unions, minimum wage and pray to their idol Ayn Rand. They won't be standing in solidarity with anyone. They think they are all their own island.

Does the FED deserve scrutiny? Yes. Should we end the wars? Yes. After that everything they support is about freeing corporations and businesses from all regulations so they can screw their customers and workers at will.

[TBF]

68. I know - it's a stretch.

We may have some things in common but agree that it's a stretch. But maybe it will be good for them to exposed to other working class folks - you know that the Randers for the most part are not in the 1% - they've just been brainwashed to think that all government is evil. On some days, from an anarchist perspective, I'd agree with them. But that's neither here nor there.

[abelenkpe]

79. You know you're right

They will increase numbers and be exposed to the working class. Who knows maybe they'll be the ones to get an education?

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. They hate teachers

We are evil public employees, or trough feeders, as they like to call us.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

42. The Wall Street Occupiers should start wearing three-cornered hats, misspelling words

in their signs, and have looks on their faces as though they haven't had a decent bowel movement in three months...in other words, look like Tea Party shits. That would make sure that they get plenty of TV coverage.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Turn CO Blue]

49. You're calling me a twit?? or Ron Paul? Fess up.

[vets74]

54. Ron Paul is like the "Liberals Are Baby-Killers" scamsters working the fundie churches.

Paul delivers votes to Far Right corporatist $$$whores.

The anti-abortion campaigners do the same thing.

They're both running FALSE FRONT scams.

Well done.

Financed with more money than goes to regular campaigns.

Critical to survival of the Republican Party.

Without proper function of these False Front operations -- primarily Pro-Life and Ron Paul's flavor of libertarianism and the Tea Party (White Citizens Councils) -- the Republicans are not a viable national party.

-- Considering the unemployment rate in The South today, if they catch what they deserve for fighting off the AJA ObamaJobs bill then they could lose everywhere.

Never underestimate well-financed political enemies.

False Fronts are astonishingly effective. That's why we have a corporatist steal-trillions Republican Party.

[valerief]

46. I'm wondering when the Koch Brother Teabagger busses will pull up, too. nt

[marions ghost]

51. oh this should be good

:popcorn:

well it should confuse the pepper spray brigade...

[xmas74]

52. I started a thread this morning

about a poster making Ron Paul comments on the Occupy KC page and the few who responded had no problems with them showing up. Personally, I feel that it turns the entire event into a Ron Paul rally.

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. They're sending out emails and posting on Facebook like mad

I've received probably a dozen emails and Facebook messages just the past two days from the libertarians organizing the protest at the Federal Reserve downtown. Since I'm not affiliated with ANY local libertarian group, I figure they are mass emailing to every list they've ever had.

Then today I started getting emails from progressives saying we NEED to be supporting this cause, no matter who organizes it.

I'm replying with a link to a video in the libertarian email, by a guy who is a John Bircher. The Koch brothers' father was a founding member of the John Birch Society. My reply - "If you want to support a cause that can be linked to the Kochs, head on down there. I'm staying home with a good book. :)"

[xmas74]

66. There were posters here on DU who thought

I needed to overlook the fact that my relatives were passing this info on to me. My ultra-conservative relatives really believe that this is a show of support for any and all libertarian and ultra-conservative causes. The comment was even made about how someone like myself wouldn't dream of showing up and trying to take over "THEIR event".

What started as an event for the ninety-nine percent of us is being taken over by a very small minority. If it's an open tent, great. Do I think it'll remain that way? Not for long, if the Paulites are taking credit.

[proud2BlibKansan]

70. A lot of people don't understand how loony our right wingers are

The Ron Paul libertarian nuts here are also active in the Minutemen and they support the forced birthers. I expect to see quite a few of them tomorrow at the annual 'Hands For Life' event they hold. They stand on a busy street and hold hands. Their line is usually a mile or more long. We are going to go and collect food and other donations for the homeless - actually supporting life. And yes, the Ron Paul nuts will be there, I guarantee it.

[xmas74]

71. We both know they will be there.

Some of our posters must not understand that our Paul supporters can be nuttier than the Tea Party, at least in our neck of the woods. My neighbor is a Paulite and he's frighteningly crazy. Signs up everywhere supporting Paul, yard full of trash and penned dogs, flag blowing in the breeze. He sits on his front porch drinking Golden Grain while cleaning his guns and then throws the bottles out onto the sidewalk. He rides his scooter up and down the block while drunk-on the sidewalk, in the middle of the afternoon. And there's tons of activity at his house at all times of the night. And he's not the only one like that.

I've noticed our biggest dealers in town all have Ron Paul bumper stickers. Of course, so do most of our police officers and quite a few of our "Duggar-like" families. (Interesting, isn't it?) They yell the loudest, get nasty with people, and try to take over every situation. Embracing them with open arms before the movement gets really big is a great way to lose everything. They will take over, if only because some are so obnoxious that everyone will leave.

[Blue_Tires]

80. Agreed...

Where I live all the Paulites I know are just people who want ZERO taxes or regulation on business...Their only use for government should be defense and protection of business interests...

[xmas74]

81. That's what has me worried about them showing up.

In my area, they are so loud-mouthed that they will alienate the cause. People will turn away.

[msanthrope]

55. Maybe they can hold a candlelight vigil for Al-awlaki at Ground Zero....

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/09/30/ron-paul-condemns-killing-of-al-qaedas-awlaki/

[woo me with science]

56. Lesson #1: Don't divide. Unite.

This is how the banks and corporations keep their power: by pitting us against each other.

We need to unite against them.

[Skip Intro]

62. Who else should we exclude? That FB page lists 68 people "attending," has few disparaging posts.

less than this thread, it would appear

the page also lists a small time frame of 2 hours

what a thing to get upset about

maybe there should be a secret password the real protesters could use to keep those deemed not-real-enough out of the big party...

[Occulus]

75. How much do you know about libertarianism?

[MoonRiver]

72. Ron Paul has been usurped by Herman Cain.

:crazy:

[EmeraldCityGrl]

78. Paulites have had a presence there for at least the last week.

Michael Moore brought them up during his interview with Dylan Radigan.
I doubt the original organizers would label themselves Democrats. The
99% are everyone other than the Wall Street oligarchs.

Strange how they were made a joke of by all organized groups including
many DU'ers until people started paying attention. This new generation
of social activists will not be narrowly defined by a mere political organization.

For the sake of their future and ours we need to recognize and respect the
diverse groups represented and fully understand we all have a stake in the
success of the movement.

:hi: