Guns. Can't Live With 'em. Can't Live Without 'em.

[Taverner]

There's something irresistible-ish about 'em.

Guns. Our Nation has had a love affair with these things since long before Columbus first met up with the Arawak Indians. It's in our blood, our culture and our laws.

As most folks know, the Second Amendment gives us the right to arm ourselves, and form militias. Either as National Guard type things, or as standing military in peacetime (read: a bunch of rednecks go out in the woods and shoot things.)

Although I find this gun worship silly, I do believe in unfettered access to firearms, so long as you are sane and don't have a habit of robbing banks or stagecoaches (besides, the biggest crimes happen without a gun, and up a few floors from the ground, if you know what I mean, and I know you know what I mean!

Now that's where the incident in Tuscon, or the attempted assassination of a hard working public servant. Yes, I understand almost all public servants get paid far less than their value to society. This goes from everyone from the janitors to the IT staffs to the folks who "win" elections. Considering many folks in Congress could have gone into the private sector and made far more money. I mean, you'd be running against folks like Meg Whitman and Caly Fiorina! These folks ran their respective companies into the ground! But I digress.

Anyway, the assassin, Jared Lee Loughner is and was mentally ill. Everything that has been described of him shows a man like many assassins before him - someone who is obsessed over killing and death. Radical mood-swings. Radical changes in their personality from one day to the next. And everyone around him thought he was dangerous.

So - even though I value the right to bear arms - could we add 'insane' to the list of folks who don't get to buy and carry guns legally?

I mean, shit - a dishonorable discharge prevent you from obtaining firearms legally. Some poor gay man who was fired for being who he is is barred from buying a gun, but the insane - go right ahead! Buy any gun you want!!!

I've heard discussion of regulating the size of the magazine - and I don't know if that's such a good idea. But preventing someone who's harboring psychotic thoughts from getting a gun - no brainer.

[derby378]

1. Well said - and regarding Virginia Tech...

...Seung-hui Cho was clearly insane, and there were papers from his counselor that would have barred him from buying guns and using them to slaughter students on campus, but the stupid counselor never shared those papers with the authorities. He kept those papers at home. His incompetence played a huge role in enabling Cho to shoot up VTech.

We need those in charge of maintaining the mental health of Americans to not fall asleep at the switch. That would be a big help.

[Taverner]

2. I keep saying 'bring back the state mental hospitals' but I get jumped on for that

If we had a place where the most important organ in our bodies was taken care of, we wouldn't have half of the violence problems we are having now.

[elocs]

7. Not if it meant bringing back state mental hospitals with their bad conditions

and level of care for which they were infamous. Warehouses for the mentally ill. Out of sight, out of mind.

Nobody with a loved one with mental help problems would want to see them end up in any place like that.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

3. False as to fact

The *documented* crazies are already precluded from owning firearms. Loughner is crackers but under the current protocols nothing was on the record. That needs to be fixed and not some feel good magazine limit

[Taverner]

5. Agreed nt

[MichaelHarris]

4. I agree with you

but one has to consider a person's right to privacy including medical records. If we allow medical records open to background checks will we allow a woman's medical records reopened, i.e. Roe v Wade?

[Major Hogwash]

6. Do they allow the insanity defense in Arizona?

Does anyone know?

Because they don't in Idaho.
Not even if they are certifiably insane.

[Lucian]

8. We can totally live without them.

[moondust]

10. Billions of people do.

[Taverner]

15. Billions of people THINK they do

Actually ask anyone about guns in the UK. Average joe doesn't have one, but the local thug does.

[Zoeisright]

9. There are several big problems with that.

Privacy laws prevent disclosure of mental illness unless someone commits a crime or unless a doctor thinks the person is a threat to himself or others. Since the person who is mentally ill doesn't believe there's anything wrong with them, which is a direct function of the disease, it's very hard if not impossible to label them dangerous before they buy a gun and massacre people.

And most of the gun deaths in this country: 82 killed every single fucking day, and 200 injured every single fucking day, are carried out by people who are not mentally ill.

So gun control is the only answer. Look at countries with tough gun control laws and compare their deaths to the deaths in the US. It's a no-brainer.

Of course, the gun porn crowd doesn't want to think about that because it blows their arguments out of the water. Literally.

[Taverner]

14. Problem with gun control is that (1) it won't work. Law abiding folks might turn theirs in

Although they probably won't and (2) The criminals will always have guns

[Major Hogwash]

18. You're right, why try. What the hell were we thinking when we supported the AWB!?

After all, large extended magazines are cool looking.

[Taverner]

19. Again, I'm not sure if it would work

[Major Hogwash]

20. It worked just fine until that law sunset in 2004, when Republitards in Congress didn't renew it.

Most of which, are NOT in office anymore!!


Believe me, I know what I am talking about.
I talked about it for 50 days before the AWB sunset in 2004.

[beevul]

21. How did it work, exactly?

Since it didn't ban possession or sale of:

Anything it purported to ban which was made or possessed before the ban went into effect?


It banned the marketing of some rifles under a few names.


Bottom line, is that it did not effect availability of anything what so ever. Not in its first year, and not in its last year. The study REQUIRED by its passage could find no evidence of it working.

So how exactly did it work?

[friendly_iconoclast]

23. "So gun control is the only answer. Look at countries with tough gun control laws..." Like Mexico?

Or Jamaica?

[Taverner]

26. Or hell, UK

Gun violence is high there, something you wouldn't think

[cherokeeprogressive]

11. "Our Nation has had a love affair with these things since long before Columbus first met up with...

...the Arawak Indians."

No matter how hard I try, I can't wrap my mind around that sentence.

[Taverner]

13. Sorry - lemme rephrase that

Not before, since....

[VioletLake]

17. "Our nation" wasn't "born" until 284 years AFTER Columbus' discovery. nt

Edit: I was off by 10 years the first time ;)

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. I fear we will need a few more of these events (Graphic)

before this fully changes and people realize that we need to do something.

Realize the gun lovers think of 2nd amendment in absolute terms... and the NRA jumped the shark a while ago, like 20 years ago.



This is NOT graphic enough... our media don't help.

It is high time they start printing things like this.









Until Americans are ONCE AGAIN exposed to this they will not realize what their beloved toys do. The photos kind of take the sexiness out of them. Hell the photo of Congresswoman Giffords was as graphic as we allow them...

[xchrom]

16. We Have an enormous propensity for absorbing that stuff.

At this point - at this point massacres a la Tucson
Would have to happen even more frequently than they do.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Our media still will not print a photo of a dead guy

Unless...it is covered by a tarp, a yellow tarp.

They are part of the problem. This is why the image of the tough hombre a la Hollywood is so prevalent...

And some of them are down right comically wrong as well... Arnie running down a hill and firing two high powerered weapons and chiefly hitting... The kind of guns that require a tripod in real life for a damn reason.

[friendly_iconoclast]

24. "This is NOT graphic enough... our media don't help." Yes, wave the bloody shirt for political gain

How does your stance differ from those anti-abortion types that parade around with giant pictures of aborted fetuses?

[aikoaiko]

25. I think 2nd Amend, "absolutists" terms are balanced by those who want to repeal the 2nd Amend,

and confiscate all guns.

Violent crime statistics and images point to the need to allow law abiding folks to protect themselves from criminals as well as the need to stem criminal activity.