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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 05:55 PM
Original message
Since Obama Became President Over 10,000 Laptops Have Been Confiscated at HSA Checkpoints
Glen Greenwald:

Homeland Security's laptop seizures

For those who regularly write and read about civil liberties abuses, it's sometimes easy to lose perspective about just how extreme and outrageous certain erosions are. One becomes inured to them, and even severe incursions start to seem ordinary. Such was the case, at least for me, with Homeland Security's practice of detaining American citizens upon their re-entry into the country, and as part of that detention, literally seizing their electronic products -- laptops, cellphones, Blackberries and the like -- copying and storing the data, and keeping that property for months on end, sometimes never returning it. Worse, all of this is done not only without a warrant, probable cause or any oversight, but even without reasonable suspicion that the person is involved in any crime. It's completely standard-less, arbitrary, and unconstrained. There's no law authorizing this power nor any judicial or Congressional body overseeing or regulating what DHS is doing. And the citizens to whom this is done have no recourse -- not even to have their property returned to them.

When you really think about it, it's simply inconceivable that the U.S. Government gets away with doing this. Seizing someone's laptop, digging through it, recording it all, storing the data somewhere, and then distributing it to various agencies is about the most invasive, privacy-destroying measure imaginable. A laptop and its equivalents reveal whom you talk to, what you say, what you read, what you write, what you view, what you think, and virtually everything else about your life. It can -- and often does -- contain not only the most private and intimate information about you, but also information which the government is legally barred from accessing (attorney/client or clergy/penitent communications, private medical and psychiatric information and the like). But these border seizures result in all of that being limitlessly invaded. This is infinitely more invasive than the TSA patdowns that caused so much controversy just two months ago. What kind of society allows government agents -- without any cause -- to seize all of that whenever they want, without limits on whom they can do this to, what they access, how they can use it: even without anyone knowing what they're doing?

-snip

A FOIA request from the ACLU revealed that in the 18-month period beginning October 1, 2008, more than 6,600 people -- roughly half of whom are American citizens -- were subjected to electronic device searches at the border by DHS, all without a search warrant. But the willingness of courts to act is unclear at best. The judiciary, with a few exceptions, has been shamelessly deferential in the post-9/11 era to even the most egregious assertions of Executive Branch power in the name of security. Combine that with the stunning ignorance of technology on the part of many judges -- many of whom have been on the bench a long time and are insulated by their office from everyday life -- and it's not hard to envision these practices being endorsed. Indeed, two appellate courts have thus far held -- reversing the rulings of lower courts -- that Homeland Security agents do not even need to show "reasonable suspicion" to search and seize a citizens' electronic products when re-entering their country. Some lower court judges, however, continue to rule the practice unconstitutional: see here for one federal judge's emphatic rejection of the Obama DOJ's arguments as to why such searches fall outside of the Bill of Rights.

-snip

Back then <2008>, this was painted as yet another Bush/Cheney assault on civil liberties, so one frequently heard denunciations like this from leading Democrats such as Sen. Pat Leahy: "It may surprise many Americans that their basic constitutional rights do not exist at our ports of entry even to protect private information contained on a computer. It concerns me, and I believe that actions taken under the cover of these decisions have the potential to turn the Constitution on its head." But now that this practice has continued -- and seemingly expanded -- under the Obama presidency, few in Congress seem to care.

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/01/15/laptops/index.html">More...
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. Uh, well it's "change," isn't it? I mean, *more* are seized!
n/t
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molly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
74. Fascists. Fire all the clintonistas now in the obama administration.
WE voted for obama not the clintons. They are the ones who are soo close to the bushes. Howard Dean for chief of staff.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. If I had to fly, my laptop would be empty of even as OS.
All it would have is a Linux Live CD in the drive.
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. One of the few reasons I would have for traveling would be for genealogical
Research. In which case, my laptop and external drive would be loaded with data on the thousands of ancestors I am hunting for. If my laptop or even just my external drive were confiscated, I might as well stay home.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. upload the data to an ftp site. download when you get there.
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #27
53. Ugh - Right now I have something over 300 GBs of genealogical data
over 13,000 individuals in my database, plus scans of the relevant documents, notes on previous research, etc.

And that does not include the photographs, especially the 80 to 100 year old negatives I still have to scan. It would take days to download it all.

I'm hoping to get the most essential info up on my website though, so maybe in the long run it would be possible. But right now I am just struggling to get it organized, if I should live so long.

I would very much like to go to the British Isles to research my family there. But I will not fly with the current security crap. Maybe someday I will take a boat across and back - my great grandfather did in 1910 to visit what was left of his family in Wales.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #53
64. I am guessing you have already searched this place
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Search/frameset_search.asp

If there is a local library (Mormon church) you can order films to it for under $4. Not sure what they have for English records, but their German records are pretty amazing.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #53
69. How is that 300GB stored? Hard drive, CD/DVDs, USB sticks...? n/t
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #69
75. Internal hard drive on the desktop, external hard drive that is swapped
Between the desktop and the laptop. CD/DVDs for periodic backup that is stored off and on site.

As I said I plan to put some info up on my website, but I am still researching and need to decide how much I want to be public and what I want to keep private. Then I need to figure out if I can keep a part of my website private without a lot of hassle or stress or just keep private info off any publicly accessable web space.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
62. The government can still confiscate it and you left without a laptop.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #62
67. But there would be no data on it.
My most secret info is locked up in the most secure location-inside my skull.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. That's why I do everything by Aldis lamp.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. ACLU dserves support
Not many keeping this government honest these days
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thanks_imjustlurking Donating Member (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #4
68. Too bad they still think corporations are people.
(As far as I know - please correct me if they have changed their position - could not find any change with a quick Google.)
http://open.salon.com/blog/jim_h/2010/01/29/corporate_personhood_and_the_aclu
http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/personhood/aclu_sign_on_letter.html
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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. Kafkaesqueto say the least. It's shocking. nt
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. TrueCrypt is your friend.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. An encrypted laptop will surely raise suspicions.
If they can figure where the hidden encrypted partition is. :rofl:
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I don't encrypt the whole thing.

Just my porn financial data.

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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. *like*
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Well, your 'friend' is telling on you in your MBR. Suddenly that large area of random data
isn't so innocuous. If someone at the border takes an interest in you, your friend may leave you swinging in the breeze.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Boot Sector Virus?
Your point is well made.
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. Truecrypt puts a bootloader in the MBR.
Edited on Sat Jan-15-11 08:26 PM by Edweird
Stoned is back and it compromises Truecrypt. There should be no doubt that there is a 'Fedware' implementation of it.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. No doubt.
The sig would be obvious.
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Ubuntu is also your friend.

:P
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Eh, until they get their WIFI problems sorted out, it's a toy as far as I'm concerned.
And not even a very good one at that. If you want X based that works and has applications besides 'office' and firefox (or Iceweasel) you're gonna have to go Mac.
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Huh? I've been using it for 7 months now on two systems
(Dell Vostro laptop and ASUS EeePC netbook) and have had zero connectivity problems.

This is with 10.04 (Lucid Lynx).

You should try it...I've gotten around 9 guys at work on it now, and they are all really pleased with it. I will never use Windows again (and would try Apple if I could afford it).
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. I've installed it on an EEE pc and a Intel I7 desktop.
Edited on Sat Jan-15-11 11:10 PM by Edweird
Unbuntu, knoppix, and full Debian. None of them would maintain a wireless signal. Completely useless for my needs. It does work under Backtrack 4 - I don't want to use that as my primary browser tho.
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. P.S. I see you're in Florida...if you are anywhere near Palm Beach County
I'd be glad to let you check out one of my machines for a few days (I work near the airport).
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. What model EEE do you have?
I have the 1000HE. I use an Alfa AWUS036H. Under windows it works like a champ - under X based it sucks ass.
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. 1005HA, and I'm typing on it right now...my NetGear router is about 40' away.
That's unfortunate that you can't seem to get it to work...this has been a godsend for me.

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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. It does suck - I tried different distros and all that.
I'm sure it will get sorted out eventually, but until then I'm not relying on it for anything. I'm not anti-X, just irritated at this issue. I really wish it was ready for mainstream, but it's not. The only way I see to get applications and bugs fixed is to introduce a profit motive - and then you have Mac OS.
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Well, once I hit the lotto, I'll kit out the whole house with Mac!

:headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang:

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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. I'm sticking with windows for the time being.
Edited on Sun Jan-16-11 12:10 AM by Edweird
I get the software I need (mappoint, cubase, sonar) on a platform I can 'tweak' as I see fit. To me it's the least bad of the available options. I have 2 linux partitions installed on my EEE in addition to windows, so it's not like I have forsaken X based.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. I've had good wifi on Ubuntu since 8.0...
Was there maybe a specific driver/chipset that you were having issues with?
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. I'm using an Alfa AWUS036H. It's supposed to run 'native'.
Edited on Sat Jan-15-11 11:15 PM by Edweird
It works under Backtrack 4, but I don't want to use that as my regular browser.

Edited to add: it's a well known bug. I discovered that during my attempts to run down and rectify the problem.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Gotcha. Seems to have some discussion:
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. Yep, those are my issues: Shows a connection, but drops.
Data transfer is nil while network manager says everything is A-OK. Extremely frustrating.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #13
82. TrueCrypt has a plausable deniability option.
Two partitions. One launched with one password, the other launched with a different one.
First partition is dummy partition with no personal data. The second contains confidential information.

A true-crypt partition is indistinguishable from random bits. "Officer I wiped my hard drive prior to reinstalling the OS".
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. The master boot record is a file that can be examined - easily.
While truecrypt appears to be random data, there is no plausible excuse for having the truectrypt bootloader in your MBR - especially if you "wiped your hard drive and reinstalled your OS" as you claim. That area of 'random data' is now highly suspect.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #83
86. You don't get it.
The MBR merely indicates the presence of TrueCrypt loader.

You have two partitions:
1) Truecrypt encrypted partition w/ "dummy" OS without personal information.
2) Second trycrypt encrypted partition w/ "secure" OS with personal information.

When TSA/HSA asks you give the password for the first partition. Trucrypt loads that partition and provides no indication a second partition exists. There is no way to prove the existence of the second partition.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #6
56. They are particularly looking for encrypted/foreign language documents. Red flag. Encryption is
a waste of everyone's time (NSA has the key or can break the code), and a sure way of getting your laptop seized.
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #56
57. It ain't the NSA I'm worried about...

:P
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #56
58. P.S. Mein Freund.

:crazy:
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #56
79. NSA can't break AES-256.
Not with every computer on the planet working for next billion years.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #79
81. Then, what's the point of spending $ billions on the NSA?
Answer that question as broadly or narrowly as you like.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
8. You say that like it's a bad thing..
Homeland Security is just keeping us safe, don't you want to be safe?

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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. Change for the worse is technically 'change', so.....
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R with anger. nt
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
12. The increasing disregard of Fourth Amendment protections really makes me fume.
Thanks for posting this. I'm not sure what can be done about it. I wish I did.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
14. Ugly.
Hypocrites.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
17. Change yeah change, that's the ticket
that will work ... NOT! :argh:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
18. Where is this claim in the article:
"Since Obama Became President Over 10,000 Laptops Have Been Confiscated at HSA Checkpoints"?

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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
34. I couldn't find it either.
This seems to be the closest to a fact:
"A FOIA request from the ACLU revealed that in the 18-month period beginning October 1, 2008, more than 6,600 people -- roughly half of whom are American citizens -- were subjected to electronic device searches at the border by DHS, all without a search warrant."

Of course, no warrant is needed at border entry points, a fact apparently lost on the author.
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #18
54. You are right ProSense.
I cut and paste this article title from the Reddit link to it. Yes, I did read it. But somehow the disconnect between that title and the numbers in the story didn't take. My bad. Very bad actually. My OP title is flat wrong as far as I can tell. Over 6500 may have been an accurate representation. Maybe. So sorry.
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
20. The same people upset with this have no problems punishing adults who want to hang out together
at a bar and smoke - their rationale is "Hey, it saves lives and moneys, so your body and your choice is really ours to command"

Don't like it - don't go to bars. Don't like this? Drive. You have a choice, don't expect other people to be too worried about things when we have yelled for years about the inroads being made on rights only to hear others cheering on those things.

Do it to keep others safe - do it for the kids. Oh, and ANYONE who complains about this - label them a libertarian (because it is easier to label than to discuss).

People keep telling me I only cared about an issue because I smoked - well I rarely go to bars to even care enough, I saw a simple value I thought the left held about freedom and when I saw it being eroded there (and elsewhere) I spoke up - only to be called names.

Suck it up and enjoy it, the values trumpeted by some on the left are coming home to roost - now, finally, some are caring and realizing it was not all about them and their pet hatreds but about something called 'principle'.
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Scottybeamer70 Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Well said, The Straight Story
Many people were warning about "what's next". I guess they are finally finding
out all those things that are becoming "the next". I don't want to hear any
non smokers complaining about having their laptops taken!!....just sayin'
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Still a Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. The right to smoke in a public place is in the Constitution?
You're comparing health and safety regulations to unreasonable search and seizure.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. The right to bring electronics across borders is in the Constitution?
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #30
42. Cars spew more filth than smokes, and define 'public' place here
I start a business and folks can choose to come there or not, and if it allows smoking or not should be a choice people can make - choice is part of who we are in this country, of course some only see choice when it comes to abortion. Plenty of folks see abortion as ending a life, should those people be able to say "It's a health/safety issue for fetuses"?

If not - why not? Do you truly believe in your body and your choice? Do you believe me and my friends should be able to have beers and smokes together if we choose to do so - or do you believe you are so superior to us that you can dictate to us that we cannot do so because you are trying to save us from ourselves?

Choice - either you are for it or you are not.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #20
45. + 18,000
It would be funny, how clueless people are to what the militant non-smoking crowd has done to civil rights, if it weren't so awful.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #20
47. Drive to France? Really? That's some trick.
And yes, you really are a one issue guy. It's a sick habit. It enriches Republican politicians. It will kill you AND your daughter. She shouldn't be forced to SUCK IT UP.

Equating smoking to the need to fly (for work, family, a transplant, whatever) is one hell of a reach.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #20
63. Zero Constitutional protection for smoking. One big amendment for privacy.
And I am a smoker and I go to bars regularly. Bars are much better for patrons and especially for workers, without smoke.
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Union Scribe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #20
84. omg, I've never seen anyone able to hijack every topic
back to the poor, persecuted smokers. Jesus.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
22. If people don't want the the TSA to touch their electronic junk, they should just leave it home.
Gee, I'm so glad that Congress is refusing to renew the Patriot Act too.
:sarcasm:
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LastLiberal in PalmSprings Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #22
77. You can touch my junk when you pry it from my cold, dead hand
or at least wait until I've had a "happy ending."
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
26. The mouth breathers need laptops too. nt
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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
29. This has happened to my brother twice. There's a post here on DU
about at least one time.
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jp11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
33. Fantastic news.
At least I know now I'd have to ship my crap, hide it inside something, or encrypt it and hide it to keep it 'safe' or relatively safe like a freaking spy because my government is trying to protect us from us yet again. They don't have any legal power to do so or suspicion to even think people might be smuggling 'threatening' data in, that they couldn't just get over the internet, mail, etc, but that doesn't seem to be the point cause this just seems to be an illegal data-mining operation of people.

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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
37. Hope and change my shiny metal ASS. K&R
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ManiacJoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
43. Why start the counting with Obama?
Do the laptops prior to Obama taking office not count?
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #43
52. The TSA's willing to sieze equipment has been growing and it is on Obama's watch
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MagickMuffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
51. Whatever Greenwald says, It MUST be true
My hubby and I took our laptops, blackberry's, and cybershot camera to Mexico, and guess what we still have everything. They did not even look at anything. I also have a client that travels to and from Russia several times a year. He always takes his laptop, cellphone and camera, guess what he also returns with everything he takes and doesn't have a search done on any of the equipment.

So, if it is an article written by Glen Greenwald I always question his motives, as he has never posted a positive article concerning President Obama.


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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #51
55. So if it didn't happen to you
then it doesn't happen? :shrug:
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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
59. LINK to ACLU.org reeport. IMO Glenn Greenwald is not a really trustworth source
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #59
65. Your link backs up what Greenwald says...
and it adds the weight of The American Civil Liberties Union, the New York Civil Liberties Union and the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers (NACDL) to his assertions.

Glenn Greenwald ALWAYS sources what he says, in the article referenced by the OP, there are at least 10 hot links in the body of his piece... so what's your beef with him?

:shrug:

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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #65
66. I don't know Glenn Greenwald from Glenn Beck--but I HAVE heard of the ACLU
I have no "beef" with Greenwald, especially if he regularly serves up shockers like this one.

I guess I'm just a stickler for impeccably credible sourcing of OPs on DU.
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #66
70. If that's what you're into...
then you'll love his blog. His pieces are chock full of "impeccably credible sourcing".

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/

:)

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piratefish08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
60. OR it could read "Over 10,000 Potential Laptop Bombs Have Been Confiscated at HSA Checkpoints"
yay! victory!
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. When I beat people up I tell myself I'm really stopping criminals.
They may or may not be, but yay, victory for me anyways!. :)
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #60
71. 10,000 potential laptop bombs.
That's funny. Really.

How much are you willing to give up to be "safe"?

You willing to be scanned, searched, patted down x-rayed, poked and prodded, every time you leave your house? That's where this is going. It's already at schools, government buildings, concerts, sporting events, public gatherings, and airports. They are working on the same for subways and trains. Pretty soon you'll need a "pass" to leave your house.
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katnapped Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
72. Fer crissakes think of the CHILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLDREN!
A laptop is the perfect place for the POSSIBLE distribution of PRON across state and country lines! And we certainly can't have that!
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
73. Millions of people travel
Statistically that may not be many.

And why were they seized? There seems an assumption here that there was no good reason. Why should we make that assumption?

Unrec'd for being without information and assuming this is always bad in and of itself. It's not like the government is not charged with security anyway.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #73
76. The title of the OP is inaccurate. This
Edited on Sun Jan-16-11 05:50 PM by ProSense
is the only number mentioned in the article.

A FOIA request from the ACLU revealed that in the 18-month period beginning October 1, 2008, more than 6,600 people -- roughly half of whom are American citizens -- were subjected to electronic device searches at the border by DHS, all without a search warrant.


On edit, I pointed that out above, and the OP agreed.

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maritzasolito Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
78. WTF has Obama done so far"
I am a faithful Obama creature and will always keep myself informed about whom is doing what either in his favor or against him due to misinformation: I’ll vote/campaign/donate do what’s necessary for him to continue being our president! (Democracy is hard work and I will continue working hard making telephone calls and what not to have him reelected, no need for misinformation or violence in this “democracy”!
Here is a link for you: http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com/
Click ON the gray square at the bottom of the page and it will tell you what exactly President Obama has done for the poor, the Indigenous, Gays, the Veterans/soldiers, our country and then kiss his ass and go right ahead and ask his forgiveness since you are so pro humanity/liberty and all the bullshit that one goes blind while being wasted AND NOT see that he has done so much of what you abe bitching about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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maritzasolito Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #78
80. Am I bad......
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Union Scribe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #78
85. That was...uhhh...
what's a polite word for "disturbing"?

"I am a faithful Obama creature" yikes.
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