the smoking gun

[kpete]

[Oceansaway]

1. K&R...n/t

[Little Star]

2. LOL. n/t

[aquart]

3. K&R

[Cleita]

4. Right "on target". n/t

[Kurovski]

5. OH! NO! NO!! NO!!! BOTH SIDES DO IT!!!! WHERE"S OBAMA'S NAME, HUH?!!

(the preceding is a line of utter horseshit)

[longship]

6. K&R

:rofl:

That's just great.

[lonestarnot]

7. Right in our face smoking gun. Sometimes theytry to make an excuse, but

not often.

[doc03]

8. Is there any evidence that they had any influence on Laughner? nt

[Kurovski]

12. No, none at all. Loughner lived in a cave 423 feet below the ground for the past 15 years.

[doc03]

16. I think it made Democrats look silly when everyone went

off half-cocked blaming it on Palin and Beck before any facts were known. From what I have heard the guy was just mentally ill and politics had nothing to do with it.

[cartach]

22. What segment of the population

do you think is most likely to listen to,condone and act in accordance with the hate and lies spewed out by the likes of Palin and Beck. First would be the mentally ill,next the sociopaths followed by the just plain ignorant . Those are the types that make up the biggest portion of their audiences so it doesn't take much to conclude that Loughner could well have been pushed over the edge by their rants. The mentally ill don't necessarily act out in a vacuum and outside sources do have an effect on their emotions and irrational thinking causing them to lose any semblance of control.

[liberation]

24. The gunman chose a purely political event for his rampage

So obviously that is proof of his actions not being politically motivated at all.

Do you really want to point fingers in regards of who is looking silly?

[Action]

28. Nice Try

How long did it take for you to be brain washed by the right? Words have consequences. The right have been spreading hate for 40 years. What planet have you been living on? (google Lee Atwater if you are at a loss)

[rhett o rick]

56. Actually, a very poor try. nm

[Pacifist Patriot]

29. Okay, let's look at the obvious here.

He opened fire at a political event. I'm not thinking that was a coincidence.

[slackmaster]

34. He killed indiscriminantly at that event

At least two of the dead were Republicans.

[bettyellen]

42. no, he went in and asked to see Giffords

[slackmaster]

43. Are you denying that in addition to shooting Rep. Giffords he murdered several people?

:crazy:

[bettyellen]

45. no, but you seem to be denying he targeted Giffords, as well as her supporters and constituents

and that is pretty wrong headed. it mattters not that there were a few Republicans among the overwhelmingly democratic group. He did specifically target a Dem representative, and her people.

[slackmaster]

46. Of course he targeted Giffords, but it's not at all clear why...

...Specifically, there isn't any evidence that he had it in for "liberals" or that his beef with Giffords had anything to do with her politics.

[bettyellen]

47. so it was not indicriminate at all, thanks for correcting that fallacy

[slackmaster]

49. No, he did both

Targeted one person (which I have never denied), AND killed indiscriminately.

[bettyellen]

50. i see, so he planned a massacre and only the first target mattered, got it.

[slackmaster]

51. Unknown and possibly unknowable

We don't know why he targeted Congresswoman Giffords, or why he shot all of those other people.

[bettyellen]

52. just as unknown that it was indiscriminate, and unlikely because he had obsessions w/ govt

and then went and directly targeted a member of the govt. that is known, as he left notes at home regarding asassination as well as asked for her by name just moments before opening fire.
i find your posts on this quite misleading, but perhaps you are speaking in ignorance, claiming it was completely random. the evidence contradicts this.

[slackmaster]

53. I have never claimed that it was "completely random"!

He targeted his representative in Congress.

We don't know exactly why.

[bettyellen]

58. ":he killed indicriminately" sounds pretty random to me, and inaccurate

[slackmaster]

59. Only if you choose to act obtusely and interpret that as a comprehensive description of the situa...

...tion.

Jared Loughner didn't bother checking the ideological credentials of most of the people he shot. He probably didn't even know the names of most of them.

[bettyellen]

61. that was your "obtuse" little synopsis, not my fault it doesn;t accurately reflect the facts

or what you yourself believe.
and if this fella went to target a politician, which you and the police all agree he much decidely did, why would he need to check credentials of the other people there? it was a great place to find a group of people who were trying to work within the system of government- which he belived was evil. Kinda easy to see the connection.
did the guy who shot up th UU church two years ago screen for baptists? why would he- if there were any, they were willing to consort with the evil liberal UU people, so why would he want spare them? why would Giffords shooter want to spare those he believed were supporting something evil- the government.
both men targeted groups that had gathered for a purpose thet they vehemently were against. that they had mental problems that allowed them to resort to extreme violence doesn't change that at all.

[Scout]

48. perhaps you heard wrong. n/t

[rhett o rick]

55. "From what you heard"??? nm

[slackmaster]

33. He was breathing air that contained the "toxic atmosphere" they created

So it wouldn't make any difference if he had never seen or heard anything that any of those people have ever said or written.

[doc03]

36. I am old enough to remember after the JFK assassination

people made a big fuss to take westerns off of TV and passed gun laws. Did it help? We still have murders today. I can buy a gun at a better price in West Virginia but I have to pay $35 to have it shipped to Ohio. How does this do anything other than put a tax on a law abiding citizen? What does the crook do? He breaks into someones home and steals his gun.

[spanone]

9. k&r....

[Fumesucker]

10. K&R

[The Straight Story]

11. Wait - I thought guns were the problem and not words?

Which one is the real threat?

In the ME we have people using bombs to blow themselves up and all around them as well (but I am guessing those bombs and those actions are against the law).

Guns kill people, words kill people, ideals kill people, books kill people....or is it that people kill people as they have since time began?

Maybe the real problem is one that has no simple solution and trying to find a simple solution is also part of the problem.

[AlbertCat]

15. Maybe the real problem is

IGNORANCE

[madokie]

13. Perfect

thanks

[Major Hogwash]

14. Wow!! Hammer meet nail!!

Right on the money!

[benld74]

17. VERY Well Done!

[CatWoman]

18. K; R

:kick:

[aikoaiko]

19. SBR?

[DeSwiss]

20. K&R n/t

[Alcibiades]

21. When Rev Wright said "God damn America!"

Nothing happened. No rioting, no bloodshed, nothing. The fact that he said this in the context of denouncing a system of white supremacy so vile it was eventually disavowed by even George Wallace was of no consequence: he said it, had some connection to Barack Obama, and so it was therefore fretworthy.

But when a right-wing political outfit literally paints a crosshairs on the district of a sitting Democratic member of Congress, and a nutjob shoots her in the head, injuring many and killing six, including a little girl, there's no cause for concern.

If the president's pastor says something and nothing happens, it's proof of something dire. But if sarah Palin issues a fatwa and someone actually acts on it, it's no big whoop.

[bertman]

23. REC. nt.

[Paka]

25. Smoking Gun...

Irae! You captured it.

[LawnKorn]

26. I thought Fox News was the fan rapidly dissipating the smoke from view

[LawnKorn]

27. K&R

[Zax2me]

30. So the shooter was a bush hater?!

"His anger would well up at the sight of President George W. Bush"
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/16/us/16loughner.html?_r=3&adxnnl=1&pagewanted=3&adxnnlx=1295272816-mzPTbiXmgfYK5d56DmiDjg
He got this way by listening to limbaugh and palin and little beck?!

WAIT until all facts are in.
It really helps.
The shooter wasn't carrying a politial flag, left or right. He was just crazy.

[slackmaster]

54. Sorry, facts that contradict narcissistic liberal collective persecution theory aren't allowed

:hi:

[Upton]

31. Is there some evidence

that Loughner specifically was listening to Limbaugh or watching Faux News? If there is, I sure haven't seen it.

[slackmaster]

32. None at all so far.

He appears to be a nut case.

[Indydem]

35. Keep it up.

The more some of you make this about politics, the more this is going to kick our ass if he turns out to, in any whatsoever, be associated with progressives, liberals, or democrats.

"He became intrigued by antigovernment conspiracy theories, including that the Sept. 11 attacks were perpetrated by the government and that the country’s central banking system was enslaving its citizens. His anger would well up at the sight of President George W. Bush, or in discussing what he considered to be the nefarious designs of government."

If you honestly think the right wing corporate media won't start spinning this RIGHT NOW that loughner was actually one of US, you are naive.

He was a nutcase. Not a liberal or conservative. Keep spinning this into the fault of the right wing and we will all be sorry.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/16/us/16loughner.html?ref=us

[russspeakeasy]

37. Great creativity. Thanks.

[vicarofrevelwood]

38. King Henry II said in the 12th century

Who will rid me of this meddlesome priest," King Henry II
said in the 12th century in front of several of his knights,
who took him at his word and slew Thomas Becket. 

[MrMickeysMom]

39. Hah-hah!

Fox News CLIP!

[demwing]

41. Then Bachman and Angle are Butts! /nt

[demwing]

40. To say that people who incite hate aren't responsible for increasing violence

is to say that Cigarette manufacturers aren't responsible for increasing cancer, and that second hand smoke is the sole responsibility of the smoker.

[slackmaster]

44. Cigarette manufacturers aren't responsible for all types of cancer

For example, nobody has linked cigarette smoking to melanoma.

[demwing]

57. Why are you refuting something I did not say?

I'm really curious...

[slackmaster]

60. All violence is not the product of people inciting violence

Is that easier to understand?

[quarbis]

62. the military teaches

if you demonize your enemy long and hard enough
it becomes easy to kill them.

[demwing]

64. The only person bringing the word "All" into our conversation

is you. That, I understand.

[oberliner]

63. Allen West?

Anyone else have to look up who that guy was?

[demwing]

65. wingnut Congressman from Florida

22nd district I think

but I only know of him because I live down here

[oberliner]

68. Got it - just didn't realize he was so prominent

Certainly heard a lot more about the rest of that motley crew than about him.

[demwing]

69. He's a Tea Party Favorite

and refers to the Obama administration as "tyrants."

[japple]

66. Bet that hurt Ann Coulter's feelings--left off her name n/t

[RoccoR5955]

67. K & R n/t

[bigwillq]

70. K and R

:thumbsup: