What must we do to communicate with the Conservatives?

[Pedalpower]

I made a New Year's resolution this year: don't argue with anyone who's unwilling to learn. I'm sick of people who never give an inch and never admit fault. And I now feel bad about my resolution, because it means I'm giving up and not having an effect. SO, I hope to discuss what we can do to reach this personality type. If we hope to make any permanent gains in the face of overwhelming financial disadvantage, it will have to come via improved communication and increased understanding with those middle-class and poor moderates and conservatives. It's time to find a way to bring the realization to these folks that their leaders do not have their interests at heart. This is to help spur such a conversation.

Right-wing leaders have discovered that Conservative voters, and many Moderates, respond to fear. They have honed their craft so well that issues and facts no longer have the impact that worry does. They use the macro to overwhelm the micro, and fact resides in the micro.

Conservatives now fear Liberals because they are convinced that the Left brings not discomfort to their way of thinking, but doom. Never will you hear a Conservative say that a Liberal policy will be a minor inconvenience to a Republican. Instead, it's painted as a complete loss of their way of life. We are painted as destroyers of everything that is righteous. Believing the propaganda repeated to them day after day, they feel little option other than to reject everything about us and our policies. I am not surprised at the vitriol that they have created and I'm not surprised by the violence. If I believed that my way of life was to be stolen from me, who knows what I might do.

WE ARE NOT REACHING CONSERVATIVE VOTERS WITH OUR NUANCED ARGUMENTS. Do you all get the magnitude of this? In the past, when both sides used nuanced approaches to the argument, facts had a chance to sway opinions. Now, our facts sound like trivia compared to the magnitude of their doomsday talk. By their personality type and chemical brain make-up, they respond differently than we do. Believe it or not, this has advantages, in life and even to us, should we choose to accept it...

WE HAVE TO CHANGE OUR APPROACH WHEN MAKING OUR CASE TO THEM. We must tap into their emotional responses. We have to paint a picture of their futures under their leadership. We need to undermine their belief in their leaders (who rightfully deserve to be undermined). We need to make the connection between their economic policies and Communist nations(China). We need to show them what pollution is doing and will do to their children. We need to explain what war costs each of us, not just socially, but in our wallets. If we don't do it, we'll never reach them. If our current best efforts are failing, more of the same is not going to help. I am not talking about using lies to scare them; we need to use the TRUTH to scare them. Right now, they're not absorbing the truth because we present the information in a form that their minds cannot accept.

The best part is that, while we can co-opt their approach, they cannot use ours. Facts don't support their side, in most cases. We have an massive advantage, should we choose to take it.

This will require a major shift in our approach. We will need experts, not only in politics, but in the workings of the human mind. It's cheap to implement; the challenge is whether or not we have the courage to accept this new way to communicate.

I would love to hear people's thoughts and if anybody can steer me toward more discussions of communication, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks for your time. I hope this stimulates some discussion.

[Skittles]

1. as long as they are brainwashed, there's little hope of any effective communciation

the current culture of corporate media needs to END

[Pedalpower]

16. It cuts both ways...

If the White House would make the issues plain, by getting Obama on the TV and explaining what the bill does, how people benefit, how the opposition lies, who the heros are, who the scoundrels are, and what the people need to do to make good things happen, then the people will become dissatisfied with the current media outlets. There's a chance that the mainstream media will adjust accordingly.

As ugly as it may first appear, we need to 'brainwash' the Right back to health. If we can get them to a point where they can support and benefit from some good old fashioned progresive policies (especially if it puts money in their pockets), then we can get them to start doubting the lies they've embraced.

[Skittles]

21. BULLSHIT

repukes have made it clear their number one goal is to TRASH OBAMA - stop with this "both ways" BULLSHIT - it's pretty clear whose side the media is on, and no amout of repuke ass-kissing by Obama will change things

[Pedalpower]

27. We agree...

Don't focus on the title, but read the message inside. Sorry if it gave you the wrong idea.

I agree Obama needs to get tougher, by actually telling the truth of the matter... without worrying about Repulican politicians' feelings. They don't care about his, obviously. But he can do it in a civil way, one that people will respect.

After 8 disasterous years of Bush2, we deserved somebody who would kick ass and turn shit around. Obama's not that guy. He's doing OK, but not giving us the total victories we deserve. We're all frustrated.

[mmonk]

2. I quit speaking with them a long time ago in general about the political landscape.

Like back when bush was lying us into war and I tried warning people. There is only a few I can have any useful conversation with.

[DJ13]

3. I find a baseball bat an effective tool in dealing with them

(Just kidding)

(So far)

[rocktivity]

4. Why bother? They have nothing to say

which is why they say it so loudly.

:headbang:
rocktivity

[Pedalpower]

13. WHY Bother?! Because we need their votes.

Big picture: Republicans a corporate party with unlimited money and a rogue Supreme Court.

We're poor people getting poorer. We cannot purchase politicians they way they can.

Well-meaning Democrats, faced with no election money, will move right to get it, further abandoning the majority of Americans.

So, the only way we can stop America's slide is to reach these underinformed voters and get their vote.

That's why(;

[Taverner]

5. We have to whittle down the number of conservatives

NO, NOT *THAT* WAY - - No violence is necesarry

Convert - convert - convert

[Peace Monger]

6. Do it because it is the right thing to do

Open your heart. Use kindness to communicate your views. Focus on shared goals and dreams for our future. Conservatives are just people. Try some real brotherly love. Silent revolution isn't fun. It's tiring, ridiculously nerve-wracking, demoralizing at times, and seemingly impossible. You've got to be deeply committed to succeed.

People are illogical, unreasonable, and self-centered.
Love them anyway.

If you do good, people will accuse you of selfish ulterior motives.
Do good anyway.

[mmonk]

7. It's usually met with anger.

There are still a few I have been able to talk to and I did get one to vote for Obama. They won't anymore though because the person wanted a public option concerning health insurance and thought he should have stood up for it.

[Peace Monger]

28. oh but you see, anger is fleeting

love them anyway. don't do these things to change minds, do these things because they are valid in themselves, my friend.

[Warren Stupidity]

8. How can the conservatives reach progressive voters?

They can't. Not unless they want to stop being rightwing.

[Atticus]

9. My thoughts? They could be summed up in a quote that has been attributed to LBJ, John Wayne,

Chuck Colson and several others: "When you've got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow!"

Facts and reason are totally useless in dealing with these fanatics because THEY AREN'T LISTENING!

I am reminded of an old tale about a farmer who owned a mule that was strong but totally useless because he would not follow any command. "Gid-yup", "gee", "haw" and "whoa" were all met with total indifference as the mule stood motionless and relaxed in front of the plow.

After watching the man's growing frustration, a neighbor offered to help and was told to do anything he thought might persuade the animal to work as directed.

As the farmer watched, the neighbor picked up a four foot length of two by four pine and viciously swatted the mule on the side of the head with it.

The neighbor then took the reins and plowed a straight and deep furrow to the end of the field, turned and plowed a similar furrow back to where the mule's owner stood slack-jawed and scratching his head.

As he handed back the reins, the neighbor remarked "That's a damn fine mule---once you know how to get his attention!"

[mmonk]

12. Good one.

[d_r]

10. I understand your frustration

I've puzzled over it myself.

Honestly I think that you have to argue with them on their turns, and out bully them. I think they were raised that way, to be bullies. They see rational discussion as a weakness.

Maybe I'm wrong though.

Also don't forget cognitive dissonance, they will only listen to things that agree with their world view, and ignore things that don't.

One thing about it - don't worry about feeling bad about your resolution, they weren't going to change their minds in the first place.

[jody]

11. Listen patiently, reply simply with irrefutable facts, not unsupported assertions. nt

[Pedalpower]

14. What about irrefutable EMOTION?...

They respond to emotion, not facts. What I'm saying is that we need to take a new approach using the methods that they're ABLE to absorb.

We selfishly insist that what reaches us, reaches them. They've been slammed with 20+ years of constant demonizing of the Left from AM radio and Fox 'news'. It's gonna take time and a revised approach.

What we're doing works among us, but we need a new way of thinking to get beyond the converted.

[jody]

36. Both sides lose. As Max Ehrmann said, "listen to others"

Desiderata

-- written by Max Ehrmann in the 1920s --

Go placidly amid the noise and the haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.

As far as possible, without surrender,
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even to the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons;
they are vexatious to the spirit.

If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain or bitter,
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

Exercise caution in your business affairs,
for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals,
and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love,
for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment,
it is as perennial as the grass.

Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.

Beyond a wholesome discipline,
be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be.
And whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life,
keep peace in your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.

If you are as good as you think you are, then listen to others and become better.

[MannyGoldstein]

15. Like FDR did, we must improve their lives with Liberal policies

And make it obvious that the Liberal policies helped. Then they will turn into Liberals.

After the first mid-term election after FDR took office, only 17 Republicans remained in the Senate. Imagine that! Two years of 9% GDP growth and increasing job prospects turned us into a country of FDR Liberals.

[Pedalpower]

18. Once it's done, it MUST be explained...

What you said is key: we have to make the benefits so plain that they cannot be effectively spun by the Right. Even when Obama does something beneficial, he's so weak with the follow-up that you might not know it ever happened. The administration's current approach to communication is a disaster. Folks as smart as Obama get his approach. Few others do.

I do not know what Obama can do via Executive Order, but with the current House, it may be his only outlet. But, no matter what good he can do, he'll have to back it up with clear explanation. Allowing the Right to define his policies has been a disaster.

[pottersvilleusa]

17. Read what George Lakoff has to say

About metaphors used by conservatives and apply it.
It's not easy to do though.

[Pedalpower]

19. It'll get easier when we practice...

It's gonna feel unnatural, at first, but we have to start undoing the damage done to them.

Thank you for the info on Lakoff. I just read an article and will seek out more of his writings. I appreciate your help.

Sounds like a lot of posters have given up, and that's not good.

[Imajika]

20. First, you have to stop attributing all these failings to only conservatives...

Your entire post is filled with assumptions and complaints about how stubborn and misguided conservatives thinking is. Read your post again. Conservatives could just as easily turn much if it around and claim progressives do the same thing. Let me give you some examples:

"Right-wing leaders have discovered that Conservative voters, and many Moderates, respond to fear."

Please. EVERYONE responds to fear, and every political party probably the world over appeals to it. Perhaps we Democrats generally do it more subtle ways, but make no mistake, we use fear to get out our voters. So saying that only the right wing uses this tactic is wrong.

"Conservatives now fear Liberals because they are convinced that the Left brings not discomfort to their way of thinking, but doom."

Come on. You must be new here or on any political forum. Many Democrats, liberals and progressives believe just the same thing of the right. That a right wing agenda means doom to us. Again, your arguing that only conservatives think this way when in fact all political partisans tend to view politics through this prism.

"WE ARE NOT REACHING CONSERVATIVE VOTERS WITH OUR NUANCED ARGUMENTS."

Yes, this just means we need to use the words better in conveying our beliefs. We allowed the right to to steal emotional terms and words and make those words their own. We could use many more Ed Schultz type commentators. Blue collar, tough, pushing a buy-American agenda, standing up for the average working class guy/gal, etc, etc. Basically, a down home, Mom&Apple Pie regular person with a streak of populism who advocates common sense progressive policy and appeals to middle America.

"We will need experts, not only in politics, but in the workings of the human mind."

No, we just need a more common sense, simple approach. American's tune out long drawn out theories on this, that or the other. What people tend to respond to are simple arguments that they can relate to, and appeals to tradition and emotion. American's are also deeply patriotic so appeals to that side of them is important as well.

Here are my suggestions to you when arguing with anyone with different opinions. If you really want to change their mind then you need to make your points and listen to them. Make sure to agree with them on anything they may even get half right - give them credit for their idea or thoughtfulness or whatever. Doing that makes them feel you are also listening to them. As you talk, DO NOT scream at them or try to shout them into submission. This just doesn't work as they will become reflexively defensive and be even more against whatever it is your pushing. You have to sort of plant the seed, let them talk and agree with them when you can as encouragement and sort of let them come to your conclusion. If you can make them believe they realized your ideas were right all by themselves, they are more likely to retain these new beliefs and start trying to persuade others.

You have to accept that human nature is what it is. All sides can be appealed to by fear, all political partisans tend to view the other side as awful and perhaps evil, all sides tend to respond to emotional appeals.

Anyway, that is my opinion and suggestions.

[Pedalpower]

26. I applaud you...

Of course Liberals are affected by fear. Some also pick their noses. Raising every ill Liberals may have doesn't advance the topic. If you would explain to me why it does, then I'm all ears.

I'm not worried about what Conservatives can 'turn around'. My post is not a discussion with Conservatives. It's a discussion with Liberals about a possible game plan for working with Conservatives and Moderates to create greater understanding of facts. I know what Conservatives are told to think of me. I'm not worried that some pay not find my posting here to be 'fair and balanced'.

Schultz is half-way to being great. I like him and I understand why you like him more than I do.

What many don't understand is that there is great complexity behind the simplest, most basic emotions and motivators. Just being simple isn't going to cut it, because the Right isn't just being simple. They are strategically crafting their words (framing) to create an effect far beyond simplicity. It's how they get their base to vote against their own economic self-interests. Yes, we need to begin by being clear, simple, and straight forward, but if that's all we do, we still lose.

Let's be civil, eh? I appreciate a good discussion.

[Peace Monger]

22. Two Strangers Meet On A Street

One Christian, the other Atheist. Before the first judgement is passed by human nature, these are shared beliefs found in each heart;

Do good.
Do no harm.
Be honest and fair.
Be generous.
Be faithful to your family and friends.
Take care of your children when they are young.
Take care of your parents when they are old.
Take care of those who cannot take care of themselves.
Be kind to strangers.

[defendandprotect]

23. Someone said the only real REVOLUTION = LOVE ... tend to believe it ....

can we somehow force ourselves to LOVE these bastards? :nuke:

[RagAss]

24. Mandatory Thorazine

[TheKentuckian]

25. Actually standing for something would help

[Motown_Johnny]

29. How do we communicate with conservatives? Dumb It Down!!!

[NuttyFluffers]

30. might i recommend George Lakoff's "The Political Mind"

deals with the idea that greater scientific understanding of the brain's reasoning process has been discovered and completely discounts our 18th century notion of Reason and the human mind. then it goes into how frames, tropes, and larger narratives are the building block constructs, using embodied and emotional reasoning (along w/ other stuff), that truly comprise Reason as we currently scientifically understand it. so, through this process of understanding how the mind works, we can learn to redraft our messaging in an engaging and digestible way for those ensorcelled under RW narratives.

worth a read, i think.

[Pedalpower]

33. Watched an hour of Lakoff last night...

Thank you for the recommendation! I watched one of his lectures last night and it's quite good. It'll take me a while to absorb it all and begin to readjust my way of presenting, though.

I'll look for his writings. Thanks again!

[Hailtothechimp]

31. Their minds are poisoned

After two decades of listening to Limbaugh, and a decade of watching Fox News, they have lost any ability they ever had to be reasoned with. I hate to say that, but there's no magic wand we can wave, and no turn of a phrase we can use to make them see how wrong they are. Strong and wrong beats right and wimpy, right?

[snot]

32. Great observation:

"The best part is that, while we can co-opt their approach, they cannot use ours. Facts don't support their side, in most cases. We have an massive advantage, should we choose to take it."

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JoePhilly]

35. There are about 30% you can't reach, period ... and so ...

You need to forget about them, and engage those AROUND that 30% who you can reach.

I have an in-law who is part of that 30% and can not be reached.

So I don't engage him. I talk to his wife. His parents. His siblings.

I do what I can to give them information with which to question his crazier rants. When I engage them, I do so gently. I do not push my position. Never raise my voice. Lots of times, I'm answering their questions and his rants.

Using this approach I found that a few of them had questions about his positions and rantings, but were afraid to ask him questions about any of it because he was so relentless.

But now when he starts to rant, one of them, and at times a few of them, speak up. I usually stay out of it. The result is that he comes to conclude that he is in the minority and usually he changes the subject.

I doubt that he will ever change his position. But his family now has two perspectives. His rants. And a more left perspective.