I'm FUMING

[pinboy3niner]

Yesterday I stumbled across a website for my unit in Vietnam.

I sent my contact info, it was sent out to others, and I had a very nice response from one guy. I replied, and received an answer from him.

The problem: My message included a reference to our medic, whom I described as "a hell of a guy."

The reply from my "friend" said,

"He's really a gay wimp but hides it well. "

I've resisted repying to him yet because I'm SO infuriated by his comment. The guy he's talking about is the medic who kept us alive. Our medic, who was awarded the SILVER STAR for risking his own life to save us.

I'm gonna need some time before I reply to this ASSHOLE.

[AC_Mem]

1. Try not to take the bait

If you do respond, make sure you mention what you just told us, that he kept people alive and was awarded the Silver Star for risking his own life to save others.

Can that guy say the same?

People are so ignorant in today's world, it is so sad.

:(
Annette

[stuntcat]

8. what you said.

exactly. Saying "gay wimp" is a sign of someone you cannot reason with.

[StopTheNeoCons]

35. Say to him "you're a wimp for saying what you said, and a moron"

Say to him "you're a wimp for saying what you said, and a moron"

[Amerigo Vespucci]

22. This Wednesday, I am the weekly speaker at a business group I belong to...

...and I have already prepared the notes for my talk, "Ten Steps for Being a Peacemaker Without Putting Your Foot In It."

I was able to come up with the ten steps because over the course of my lifetime, I've made a mess out of all ten...but I learned from my mistakes.

Step #9 is "Don't Take The Bait."

And what I wrote in my notes is "Be purposeful and focused in your communication and don't give in to emotion or defensiveness."

Like I said, I arrived at that level of enlightenment after screwing up many, many times...after taking the bait. I'm no expert, just a guy who screwed up over and over and over and eventually saw a pattern and said "I don't like this pattern," so I stopped letting that pattern rule my life.

:-)

"He kept people alive and was awarded the Silver Star for risking his own life to save others."

That does say what needs to be said. Anything beyond that would just entertain the "inner child" of the jerk who made the inappropriate comments.

:patriot:

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

33. I'd love to know what the other 9 are n/t

[Amerigo Vespucci]

38. Here are my speaker notes...everything on the list learned "the hard way."

Ten Steps for being a Peacemaker without putting your foot in it

1). “Begin with the end in mind.” What’s the point? What do you hope to gain by “making peace?” What do you hope the other parties will gain? How realistic are your expectations?
2). Are you willing to give in order to get? If so, how much? And if you do give, will you be at peace with your “giving,” or will it simply plant the seeds for future conflict?
3). What issues do you need to “own” before you attempt to be a “Peacemaker?” Peace talks are like going on vacation...we always manage to bring our baggage along .
4). Take five...actually, take 24...hours, that is. Always take a step back, pray, meditate, have a nice meal, get a good night’s sleep...never “react” in a moment of anger to “hot button issues” and conflicts. The key word in “knee jerk reactions” is “jerk.”
5). You can never “control” how the other person is going to feel at the end of an encounter with you. Knowing this, are you trying to do exactly that? Do you want them to walk away feeling “good” or “bad,” and how will that make you feel about yourself?
6). “If at first you don’t succeed”...If you do everything you can to work toward a mutually satisfactory result and it blows up anyway, will you try again, or will you throw up your hands and say “Well, I tried?”
7). Learn how to call in sick. If you’re headed into a situation and have done your “prep work” and still feel like there’s a mighty chip on your shoulder, call in sick. Postpone your meeting until another day.
8). “Pray without ceasing”...especially ten minutes before you go into your meeting.
9). Don’t take the bait. You can fully commit yourself to everything on this list, and you may be the only person who does so. Be purposeful and focused in your communication and don’t give in to emotion or defensiveness.
10). Give thanks for a positive outcome and / or lessons learned...Because if you actually learn the lesson, that in itself is a “positive outcome.”

[madmax]

47. Very generous of you AV

As I read the first posts I was thinking, wow - I'd like to know what they are and thought maybe it would be rude to ask. Then someone else commented and you posted them. :hug: Thank you.

[pinboy3niner]

44. His remark requires a response

I think it would be irresponsible to not express to him how offensive his words are. At the very least, I'd hope to give him cause to think twice before making such idiotic remarks.

Yes, it's sad. But we can do something to fight the ignorance.

One day at a time. One idiot at a time.

Thanks, Annette.

[babylonsister]

2. I'm glad you're waiting until you cool down, pinboy3niner.

Your response to this bigotry could go a long way if you handle it the right way. :hug:

[pinboy3niner]

43. Thanks, sis

I suspect that the guy is coming from a religious angle. The signoff on his first message to me was, "love all; worship One."

I've slept on it, and am still contemplating how I'll respond today. I don't know the guy (he wasn't in our platoon), but I expect to meet him at a reunion this year. When I calm down, I want to convey to him exactly why I found his remark offensive. And I want to do it in a way that I hope will be educational.

:hi:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. My dear pinboy3niner...

Take your time in answering...

Your anger is highly appropriate. When you do answer, it might be smart to mention how that medic kept all of you alive and how he got his Silver Star...

I think your "friend" will get the message, and you will have remained on the high road.

Good luck!

:hi:

[truedelphi]

4. self delete...

Thought I was adding a comment to a dialogue about Michigan.

[Lint Head]

5. I don't think you should ignore his comment. That would be ignoring the bigotry.

A diplomatic way to reply would be to say, 'I see you have strong opinions which we as soldiers fight for. A Silver Star has no prejudice.'

(Some would say I'm not diplomatic and don't suffer fools lightly.)

[truedelphi]

6. I'd be fuming too.

And it might be a while before you can be calm enough to tackle this reply to him.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Hugs

Some people are idiots.

[w8liftinglady]

9. you and every other vet I know... they are tired of that shit

even my kid hates it..
he thinks the real "pussies" are the ones saying these things.

breathe deeply....ommmmm

[Kalyke]

42. Did you have to use another derogatory statement

to blast a derogatory statement?

Everyone knows that "pussies" are stronger than "dicks." "Pussies" can stretch to the size of a small bowling ball during childbirth and then contract back down to the size of a pen with very little effort, while dicks must hide every time they even sense that an object might hit them.

[badtoworse]

10. You need to chill first and respond calmly

Yeah the guy's an asshole, but if you just come out and say that, you lose the opportunity to change his mind. You need to focus on the fact that this medic is a brave man who deserves both gratitude and respect. In that context, ask him why his sexuality is relevant to that.

[proud patriot]

11. "I could care less whether he's gay or not he saved our lives"

could be your comment IMO

[Arugula Latte]

24. Just a nitpick: the phrase is "I couldn't care less"

Because if you could care less, you care (at least a little). If you couldn't care less, you don't care at all.

[cliffordu]

12. Take your time writing back...

Spend a little time writing something that will roast his ass in a very thoughtful, mature way.

[pinboy3niner]

16. Hey, two effs

I know that you and I have exactly the same reaction.

I think roasting asses is your specialty, lol!

As fucking pissed off as I am, I'm going to try to make a tempered response. If his reply is still out of line, you know where I'm going, Bro~

[cliffordu]

26. I know where you're headed if he persists...

.....Always a great time until someone loses an eye......

LOL

[pinboy3niner]

13. Thankyou for all the great replies

One reason I'm fuming..
I had a very good friend who was gay. His name was Randy Taylor.

We met in a VA Vet Center long after the war. I learned that Randy had done three tours in Vietnam--most of it as a Marine Corps Infantry squadleader

After Vietnam, Randy fought to be a police officer in the SFPD. It was a celebrated battle, and he finally won. But his "brothers" in blue harrassed him so much that he finally quit.

Randy had HIV, then full-blown AIDS, and I used to drive hm to the hospital and spend time with him there. At his apartment, Randy woud joke about serving me his "gay" raspberry coffee...

Randy was gay--and a hell of a Marine.

When we lost him, the Washington Post carried a story noting how many of his felliow Vietnam vets turned out to honor him. None of us cared about his sexuality. He was a Brother.

[MadMaddie]

14. You could simply respond

"You and the guy wouldn't be having this reunion and conversation if it wasn't for the Silver Star Medic". End of statement

I am glad that you and others made it back.

[pinboy3niner]

15. Thanks, MadMaddie

Your sentiments are appreciated.

[dsc]

17. You have gotten a lot of good responses

but I do have one question. Is the medic gay? One reason I ask is that if he isn't then the comment could have been sarcasm (bad sarcasm but sarcasm). In any case, just my two cents worth.

[pinboy3niner]

29. Unfortunately, I don't think it was a poor attempt at sarcasm

The guy who made the offensive remark wasn't in my platoon. He was another platoon leader who may have reached out to contact me only because i had also been a platoon leader.

He'd apparently met "Doc" at unit reunions.

I saw Doc only once after the war, when there was an All Airborne reunion in D.C., at the Wall, 20 years ago. A guy from my platoon had organized a reunion of my battalion, so a bunch of us got together then, including our Bn. commander, who'd been a LTC in VN, but was a Major General at the Pentagon at the time of our reunion.

A weird thing that happened at that reunion is that, when some of us were walking The Wall, I happened to look up and see Doc's name engraved there. He was only a few feet away from me at the time, and in that moment I felt like I was losing touch with reality. Of course, the name on the Wall was a different guy--same name, different middle initial.

When I saw him, there was nothing about Doc that would strike you as effeminate. The website I found indicates he attended reunions with his wife.

[Cerridwen]

18. K & R and

:hug:

I vote for MadMaddie's response; if you're counting. :)

[mmonk]

19. Think it through and make sure your comment is without emotion

and mention the silver star and maybe how much you appreciated him.

[lonestarnot]

23. And don't forget to proofread!

[mmonk]

27. That was in case he wanted to carry the conversation forward.

[lonestarnot]

28. And I'm hoping he does. He should IMO. He will do a good job too. I have confidence in him!

:patriot:

[bluedigger]

20. That's just dumb.

By definition, anyone who is awarded a Silver Star is not a wimp. Whatever their sexual orientation. Set your "friend" straight.

[pinboy3niner]

21. One reason I'm fuming..

I had a very good friend who was gay. His name was Randy Taylor.

We met in a VA Vet Center long after the war. I learned that Randy had done three tours in Vietnam--most of it as a Marine Corps Infantry squadleader

After Vietnam, Randy fought to be a police officer in the SFPD. It was a celebrated battle, and he finally won. But his "brothers" in blue harrassed him so uch that he finally quitl

Randy had HIV, then full-blown AIDS, and I used to drive hm to the hospital and spend time with him there. At his apartment, Randy woud joke about serving me his "gay" raspberry coffee.

In Vietnam, Randy was both gay--and a warrior.

[RegieRocker]

25. So this guy fought in vietnam so our country could remain

free and he is negatively pointing out the medic is gay. Now what kind of freedom is that? If you're not like the majority then you're not worthy? Obviously this guy has a problem with race also, I would bet on it.

[AC_Mem]

48. What a good friend you were!

And in my opinion, there has to be just a little bit of warrior in every gay person, even if it is just inside of them.

If you have a belief, as I do, that we plan our lives before birth, you might agree that it would take a strong, mature soul to choose a life of such social, emotional and physical challenge. It is the young, weak and immature souls who have no compassion for anyone but themselves.

Soul age is a very interesting study for anyone who has the interest/belief.

Peace,
Annette

[lunatica]

30. Just be honest

Chances are good that in time you'll find this guy does and says a lot of things you don't like. I would nip it in the bud by simply saying that I don't see the medic that way at all. And that he's a hero in your eyes but maybe that's because you aren't a bigot.

Of course, if you do it in a civil manner you'll make your point as well, if not better than if you metaphorically kicked his ass in his own language.

[madokie]

31. Yep that pisses me off too

Stupid people say and do stupid things. If it was me I'd reply letting him know how you feel and then blow him off. Fuck 'm the sunsabitches who feel that way. The thing is, more than likely you could type until your fingers bled and not change this person thinking one iota.
About right now I think you need a big assed ole okie :hug:
figuratively speaking on the big ass part as if there is one thing I don't have that is it :-)
Peace

[pinboy3niner]

46. Thanks for the hug, brother

I know I can always count on you and cliffordu to have my back, and that means a lot.

This guy probably isn't a total jerk, but he sure needs some edumacating. He wasn't in our platoon, but he'd apparently met Doc at some unit reunions and I think they were even together on a trip back to VN.

Don't worry, I'll set him straight--and I'll check up on him when I meet him at a reunion this year.

Obviously, it's not just about Doc. It's about the kind of hateful bigotry this guy is spouting. You know I'll give him an earful about that!

Love & Peace, Brother

pinboy3niner

[pinboy3niner]

32. I made a comment about this to the webmaster

The reply:

"I would NOT think that Doc was gay. He has a marvelous wife and they've
been married since before Nam."

[lumberjack_jeff]

34. I suspect that this may be a limitation of written communication.

In person, the inference might be different.

In my experience, no one would say such a thing - and mean it - about a medic in their unit who won a silver star.

[newtothegame]

36. Don't fume over something one guy said on the Internet.

It's like the folks on here who live their whole live-in anger because they're listening to Rush, Beck, Palin, etc. Why put yourself through that? :shrug:

[pinboy3niner]

40. Not the internet--it was an email message to me

That's why I feel obligated to respond. I could let that one remark go, but I think it's important to address it. I also expect to meet this guy at a reunion this summer, and "Doc" will be there, too. I've sat on this overnight, and I'm still upset about it.

[UTUSN]

37. I broke ties with a group from my Vietnam ship because of wingnutism in '04

It had taken, what, 40 yrs to have this contact, started out with trading memories, then rapidly devolved into their sending around chain wingnut crap. At

[UTUSN]

39. (Whups, got interrupted) - So, this contact with the Nam 'mates went on for two years

At first I thought they would pass through their political phase and get back to the main basis of the relationship. But as the '04 campaign got going, the wingnuttiness got intense. I went into the "debating" phase, but it got to be infuriating, so after a few ultimatums I told the main wingnut to f-off and that I was deleting the lot of them. So that was that.

[pinboy3niner]

41. Fortunately, this is only one guy

He wasn't in our platoon, but he'd met Doc at reunions and they spent some time together on a trip back to Vietnam.

I know what you mean about reacting to the wingnuttery, though. That's the reason I jumped in my car and drove from CA to OH to volunteer for Kerry in '04. It really pissed me off that some vets were buying into the crap about Kerry. I knew that those combat vets from that swiftboat would never be standing up for him as they were if he'd only been some rich jerk who was putting their lives at risk to get medals and rack up a combat record.

I don't have any reason to believe that Doc is gay, and I wouldn't give a fuck if he he is. He's a good man, and I know that all the guys from the platoon would stand up for him, too.

[Spike89]

45. No excuse, but I've heard the "false putdown" used a lot

Most often when guys (it almost always is guys) are talking about someone that they respect almost too much. It may not have been intended to be derogatory in any way.

Using gay as a slur, even facetiously, is the sign of a moron...but it is also sadly quite common and in many cases not even consciously connected to anti-homosexual thought.