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dkf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:35 AM Original message |
Is it a measure of success or failure when OWS has these clashes with the police? |
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dtexdem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:37 AM Response to Original message |
1. The measure of success or failure is what happens afterward. |
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dkf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:43 AM Response to Reply #1 |
9. But if you just have a larger population pissed off at the government for not |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 01:26 PM Response to Reply #1 |
56. Actually, I don't see many if any DUers relishing an OWS clash with police |
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valerief (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:38 AM Response to Original message |
2. It's not success when innocent people are bludgeoned or maced. |
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Modern_Matthew (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:38 AM Response to Original message |
3. When government is married to corporation, they are both the problem. nt |
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Capitalocracy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:39 AM Response to Original message |
4. It's a failure on the part of the police. |
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backscatter712 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:40 AM Response to Original message |
5. It shows the power-elites are afraid. |
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Codeine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:41 AM Response to Original message |
6. When the mayor has to step back and allow everyone to return with |
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tridim (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:41 AM Response to Original message |
7. OWS is testing the Constitution |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:41 AM Response to Original message |
8. An eventual extreme reaction is as predictable as gravity.. |
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vets74 (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 12:12 PM Response to Reply #8 |
49. No way. Setting up liaison with police is usually enough to forestall excesses. |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 12:16 PM Response to Reply #49 |
50. If it goes on long enough violence is inevitable.. |
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vets74 (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-28-11 06:58 AM Response to Reply #50 |
97. That is irresponsible. Also flat-out wrong. Crowds and cops are manageable. |
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ixion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:46 AM Response to Original message |
10. OWS doesn't 'clash' with the cops. They are attacked by the cops. |
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justiceischeap (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:49 AM Response to Reply #10 |
12. ^_^ This post. nt |
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vets74 (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 12:05 PM Response to Reply #10 |
43. The "clash" is generated by Agent Provocateurs sent by right wing organizations. |
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AsahinaKimi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 12:12 PM Response to Reply #10 |
48. I was just gonna say these clashes are one way ... |
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randome (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:48 AM Response to Original message |
11. OWS is fighting the wrong enemy. |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:51 AM Response to Reply #11 |
13. If it bleeds it leads.. |
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randome (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 11:07 AM Response to Reply #13 |
18. So violence is inevitable? |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 11:10 AM Response to Reply #18 |
21. The police are the agents of the 1%, not the 99%.. |
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randome (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 11:14 AM Response to Reply #21 |
22. I'd say the vast majority of police are good people. |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 11:20 AM Response to Reply #22 |
24. Yes, just go home and vote for more of the same.. |
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randome (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 11:26 AM Response to Reply #24 |
25. When police are ordered to riot duty... |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 11:40 AM Response to Reply #25 |
28. So you think it's not clear who was at fault in Oakland? n/t |
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randome (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 11:45 AM Response to Reply #28 |
30. I think mistakes were made. |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 11:47 AM Response to Reply #30 |
31. "Mistakes were made".. |
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randome (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 11:51 AM Response to Reply #31 |
33. I wasn't there. |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 02:21 PM Response to Reply #33 |
60. he was shot in the face by a projectile |
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randome (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 02:25 PM Response to Reply #60 |
62. Everyone pretty much agrees on WHAT happened. |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 02:32 PM Response to Reply #62 |
67. You won't say if you think it's right or wrong that they shot that protestor in the face |
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randome (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 02:37 PM Response to Reply #67 |
68. Of course it's wrong! |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 02:41 PM Response to Reply #68 |
69. Ahhhhh, and you brought out the "incoherent message" meme too |
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randome (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 02:46 PM Response to Reply #69 |
70. Damn! You caught me! |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 02:52 PM Response to Reply #70 |
72. not quite: |
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Ignis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 07:27 PM Response to Reply #31 |
80. Ahhh, the passive voice takes away all that worrying accountability! |
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LanternWaste (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 11:55 AM Response to Reply #30 |
37. I imagine Income Inequality is not very cohesiv |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 02:21 PM Response to Reply #30 |
59. do you think it was wrong to fire projectiles at those protestor's faces? |
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DisgustipatedinCA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:38 PM Response to Reply #30 |
93. They (OPD) started it |
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Magoo48 (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 11:55 AM Response to Reply #22 |
36. They DO have a choice... |
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randome (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 12:01 PM Response to Reply #36 |
42. Ultimately, yes. We all have a choice. |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 02:23 PM Response to Reply #42 |
61. so through with this line of argument |
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randome (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 02:27 PM Response to Reply #61 |
63. Unless you're a cop yourself, I don't think you can know what that's like. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 05:39 PM Response to Reply #63 |
78. Having been in EMS where that applies too |
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DisgustipatedinCA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:42 PM Response to Reply #63 |
95. I don't care what it's like to be a cop |
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tama (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 05:36 PM Response to Reply #13 |
77. Big coveradge |
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Jackpine Radical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 11:10 AM Response to Reply #11 |
20. I disagree. |
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brentspeak (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 11:49 AM Response to Reply #11 |
32. Some of the OWS offshoots have protested directly at the source |
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flamingdem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 12:00 PM Response to Reply #32 |
41. The Bay Area, San Francisco is right next to Oakland, is a huge financial hub |
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backscatter712 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 12:08 PM Response to Reply #11 |
45. It's both the wealthy one-percenters & corporations and the government. |
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shraby (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:51 AM Response to Original message |
14. ........And then they fight you...and you win. |
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TygrBright (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:52 AM Response to Original message |
15. Read up on the history of nonviolent social change movements. |
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dkf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 11:03 AM Response to Reply #15 |
16. I can see where it works for things like racism or sexism where cultural attitudes |
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TygrBright (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 11:16 AM Response to Reply #16 |
23. Paging Mohandas Ghandi... |
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dkf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 11:36 AM Response to Reply #23 |
26. That is true occupation and even more obvious. |
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LanternWaste (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 11:57 AM Response to Reply #16 |
38. I don't see how it doesn't fit. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 11:04 AM Response to Reply #15 |
17. Agree. It's a question of priorities. nt |
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Le Taz Hot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 11:08 AM Response to Original message |
19. You have that backwards. |
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dkf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 11:38 AM Response to Reply #19 |
27. Doesn't it take two sides? |
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brentspeak (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 11:54 AM Response to Reply #27 |
35. In your distorted world, being on the receiving end of a unprovoked pepper-spray stream |
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dkf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 12:05 PM Response to Reply #35 |
44. When you know the police are coming to clear the place and you stay anyway then |
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Demstud (288 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 01:10 PM Response to Reply #44 |
53. Yes, sometimes standing up to bullies will hurt |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 12:20 PM Response to Reply #35 |
52. Exactly. Nicely put. |
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LanternWaste (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 11:58 AM Response to Reply #27 |
40. Not to initiate. |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 02:08 PM Response to Reply #27 |
58. game over, okay? |
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Le Taz Hot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 02:30 PM Response to Reply #27 |
66. Well, it takes two sides for a rape to occur |
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Ignis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 07:28 PM Response to Reply #66 |
81. +1 |
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DisgustipatedinCA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:46 PM Response to Reply #27 |
96. If you count "being in wheelchair" as the counterpart to "firing gas canister at head" |
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Tierra_y_Libertad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 11:41 AM Response to Original message |
29. "..then they fight you, then you win," Gandhi |
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jtuck004 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 11:53 AM Response to Original message |
34. Maybe it's in the way we frame that question? |
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Enrique (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 11:57 AM Response to Original message |
39. neither |
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randome (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 12:12 PM Response to Reply #39 |
47. If you weren't there... |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 12:09 PM Response to Original message |
46. Deleted message |
JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 12:19 PM Response to Original message |
51. It is a measure of brutality and stupidity by the authorities, obviously. |
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Amonester (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 02:27 PM Response to Reply #51 |
64. +1 |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 01:13 PM Response to Original message |
54. Heavens To Betsy, Ma'am! We Cannot Have Masses Of People Demonstrating Against Wealth And Privilege! |
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devilgrrl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 02:05 PM Response to Reply #54 |
57. Mr. Magistrate sir, I need to ask a question... |
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RandomKoolzip (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 05:33 PM Response to Reply #57 |
74. That's a really good question. |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 01:21 PM Response to Original message |
55. it seems like you look at the news with Republican lenses |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 02:30 PM Response to Original message |
65. DKF, then you opposed Martin Luther King, Jr. and all that he did |
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dkf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 09:13 PM Response to Reply #65 |
84. It's not about supporting it or not...more trying to puzzle out the strategy that is being |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:07 PM Response to Reply #84 |
86. you misrepresented the strategy being used |
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dkf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:11 PM Response to Reply #86 |
87. How would you describe it then? |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:12 PM Response to Reply #87 |
88. i don't know which question you're asking |
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dkf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:14 PM Response to Reply #88 |
89. Well me neither. That is why I am asking. |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:17 PM Response to Reply #89 |
90. well your OP says something quite different than you don't know |
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dkf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:38 PM Response to Reply #90 |
94. It's a question as to if it's a measure of success or failure...I.e. I don't know what it is. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 02:47 PM Response to Original message |
71. Exactly when did OWSers confront and taunt the cops? |
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tama (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 05:28 PM Response to Original message |
73. Neither |
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RandomKoolzip (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 05:33 PM Response to Original message |
75. Is it a measure of success or failure that you're still on DU? |
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dkf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 09:32 PM Response to Reply #75 |
85. For me it is successful...I learn a lot here. |
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fascisthunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 05:35 PM Response to Original message |
76. who is confronting who dkf? |
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TNLib (683 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 05:43 PM Response to Original message |
79. It's civil disobedience |
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Tsiyu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 08:08 PM Response to Original message |
82. "Seems to be." |
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MrMickeysMom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 08:28 PM Response to Original message |
83. It's only "exciting" for those who look for excitement... |
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Dover (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:31 PM Response to Original message |
91. The people can't MAKE the police and local government look bad. |
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girl gone mad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-27-11 10:36 PM Response to Original message |
92. Your thought process is so simplistic. |
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mmonk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-28-11 07:10 AM Response to Original message |
98. There is no clash. That is the talking point of the other side |
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Mon Sep 16th 2024, 02:18 PM Response to Original message |
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