Nurse loses license for 20 years over sex with hospice patient

[cowcommander]

A hospice nurse has been barred from her profession for 20 years after admitting to a sexual relationship with her married terminally ill patient.

The Oklahoma Nursing Board in August disciplined Amber Van Brunt, 33, of Shawnee, for unprofessional conduct. Now, she is asking an Oklahoma County judge to reverse the board’s order “to correct this miscarriage of justice.”

A hearing is set for Wednesday. An Oklahoma County judge may decide if nurse’s discipline in sex case is too harsh.

At the heart of the appeal is an ethical question: Is it ever right for a nurse to have sex with a patient?

http://newsok.com/nurse-loses-license-for-20-years-over-sex-with-hospice-patient/article/3532758#ixzz1BQKCwPop

[firehorse]

1. gold-digging predator

[Hello_Kitty]

3. How so? He was married so his wife would inherit everything. eom

[firehorse]

7. article said she told him she was "knocked up"

[TheWraith]

10. She told him she was pregnant by ANOTHER man. Not him.

As far as I can determine, she had absolutely nothing to gain in this situation.

[Hello_Kitty]

11. By another man.

If she's a gold digger she's not terribly good at it.

[firehorse]

12. my bad

I guess she's an angel. Poor wife and kids.

[Orrex]

2. Sounds like she was afraid of commitment

How long until NBC runs a softly-lit hour long primetime interview with her?

[NightWatcher]

4. She should get a promotion. Isnt the purpose of hospice to make the last days comfortable?

So this guy wanted a little strange before shuffling off the mortal coil. The nurse obliged.

[Kalyke]

17. I'm guessing you think the guy's wife is chopped liver, then?

I don't care if he's on his deathbed. Unless he and his wife had an open marriage, he should not have reneged on his obligation to remain faithful to her.

Men like this disgust me. Good riddance.

[NightWatcher]

19. I love how the understood :sarcasm: or :snark: is no longer understood

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kelly1mm]

43. Are you as disgusted with the nurse who knowingly assisted him in breaking

his vows? Should she lose her license for 20 years?

[lumberjack_jeff]

45. Of course not. That's different.

The hospice patient who died is the bad guy. "Good Riddance" and all that.

When dying isn't enough, you know you're dealing with some high octane misandry.

[NuclearDem]

5. It's the same thing with student/teacher relationships

As long as someone's in a position of trust or responsibility over someone else, it should remain just a professional relationship.

[JI7]

6. anyone know what the mental state of the patient was ?

[AngryAmish]

9. After she got done with him? Suicidal.

[joshcryer]

54. You've described hundreds of thousands of men who lose "someone they love."

Is this a statement about evil women or simply a statement about depressed men?

[AngryAmish]

62. A statement about this particular man's state of mind

Before, in hospice, accepting his fate and seeking comfort. After this person did what she did, committed suicide by refusing food. Read the article.

[TheWraith]

14. He had ALS, so he was almost certainly of sound mind.

He was only 43, so this wasn't a case of an older person needing care.

[joshcryer]

55. Yes, given the ravaging nature of ALS she was probably at his side 16+ hours a day.

Dudes dying a horrible death, has an attractive nurse, talks, gets to know her, she does something stupid and lets it go further than it should have. Dude just gives up.

[Still a Democrat]

8. Punish her for sure, but it sounds a little too tough

If anyone is vunerable, it's a terminally ill person.

[CLANG]

13. When I'm on my death bed - I want her as my "aide".

[Vickers]

15. I'd like to hear his side of the story. n/t

[uppityperson]

49. He's dead, Jim. nt

[Vickers]

51. OK, dig this:

Seance deposition!!!!!

:headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang:

[Spike89]

16. Almost never right

People requiring a nurse's care become vulnerable and that relationship should never be taken advantage of. It is the same for a doctor and patient.

[Upton]

18. Sounds like this dude got busted by his wife..

so, he decided to take the coward's way out and blame the sexual relationship on the nurse. I think she got a raw deal. If I ever become terminally ill, she can come care for me anytime..

[murray hill farm]

20. Geeez...

This story should never have come to light. In most situations the ethics would be correct between nurse and patient, doctor and patient, teacher and student, etc. In this case it was a great act of caring for another human being that was soon going to die and way young to die at that. This was an act of love, not an act of sex.

[LisaL]

26. That human being had an wife.

And according to the article, after the nurse told him she was knocked up by another man, the patient tried to kill himself. I'd say this alleged affair was not beneficial for the patient.

[Lisa0825]

36. Bullshit.

Just as a psychiatrist or physician should never have a relationship with a patient, neither should a nurse, or any other person involved in their care as a health care professional.

This was an extreme breach of professional ethics.

[AngryOldDem]

21. No, it's never right for a nurse or any medical practitioner to have sex with a patient.

Jeeze...I'm amazed that this is being asked seriously, let alone legally.

[dana_b]

27. agreed. as a nurse, this is disturbing

she knew better and deserves some kind of discipline. If it were a female patient and a male nurse or doctor, I doubt people would be so forgiving.

[tammywammy]

22. I think losing her license for 20 years is too harsh. n/t

[Maine_Nurse]

23. She's lucky it wasn't forever

That would be the penalty in many states. She knew the rules going in and penalties going in. No matter when she gets her license back, she will probably be un-hireable at most places since she committed a sex act with a patient under her care and a lot of facilities are not allowed to hire those people.

[emilyg]

24. No.

[LisaL]

41. Too harsh? Considering the circumstances?

I'd say not, considering that according to the article, the patient (who had a wife) tried to kill himself when she told him she got knocked up by another man.

[joshcryer]

60. Any man in that situation would attempt to kill themselves.

You're talking being afflicted with a highly depressive disease whose prognosis is no more than 5 years in most cases once it has progressed to the point of needing hospice care. Yes it was wrong for her to do what she did, but it's not like she was some evil shrew who "drove a man to suicide."

[Recovered Repug]

50. Losing her license for 20 years seems reasonable.

After all, she was a nurse who was playing doctor.

[joshcryer]

57. Haha, so wrong.

[Recovered Repug]

59. It had to be said.

:-)

[w8liftinglady]

28. sorry-I have NEVER considered crossing the boundries

patient or patient's family... it just is not done.It makes it nearly impossible to give impartial,ethical care.
We don't even care for our own family members,we delegate it to other staff...it just isn't a good situation.
Plus...the boards frown on it.

[tavalon]

37. Same here

When I was a home health nurse, one of my patients developed a crush on me and it quickly became awkward. I transferred his care. I don't blur professional lines. There are some really good reasons those are part of our licensing rules but it also just makes sense to me.

[May Hamm]

29. 20 years seems harsh but if it were a man it would be rape

ALS = paralyzed, partially or more.

Think: a male nurse and a partially paralyzed female patient. It would more likely be 20 years in prison.

[JI7]

33. someone said he was sound mentally , is there evidence she forced him ?

from what i understand it was consensual.

[Lisa0825]

38. Can it be consensual between a health care provider and a terminally ill patient?

I say no. Would it matter to you if it were a doctor instead of a nurse?

[tavalon]

40. The rules governing our licenses says no

I, as a nurse, say no.

[RegieRocker]

61. Is that while they are a paitient? After they are released everything

is a go then right?

[May Hamm]

42. It is well known that rape does not require physical force

Using one's authority, importance, a situation, in fact using kindness with a depressed or dying person is all the same type co-ersion on which some rapists rely. Think of of nice bosses who smile and treat an underling with respect and, oh by the way, can fire them or the teacher who controls grades and which students are accepted into graduate programs and how they sometimes use that authority to gain sexual favors.

A nurse or other caregiver provided by Hospice is in a position where the patient must rely upon them for more than caregiving. Hospice nurses assigned to home care are the main link between the patient and the doctor, sometimes all information the doctor receives comes from the nurse and the MD has no contact with the patient. Think of it - a trusted, knowledgeable nurse and a weakened, heavily medicated patient. He did not have to be mentally incompetent to be unable to make a true consensual decision to be intimate. After all, he was not under Hospice care because he was at the top of his game.

[lumberjack_jeff]

46. Particularly since he attempted suicide because of the relationship. n/t

[AnnieBW]

30. World According to Garp, anyone?

In that book, a nurse masturbated a comatose patient, rode him, and got herself pregnant by him.

[Lisa0825]

31. I can't believe anyone here thinks this is up for debate!!!

Completely inappropriate and unethical. I recruit for support staff, not nurses, but I can guarantee you, based on the conversations on our team, that any major infraction such as this will mean it is HIGHLY unlikely she will ever be hired as a nurse again, whether in 20 years of 50. No nurse manager I know wants that kind of liability on her team.

[progressoid]

32. Isn't that a recurring plot for porn movies?

[Blue-Jay]

35. I sincerely hope not.

Then again - if you can imagine it, there's porn of it.

[Stevenmarc]

34. Talk about being noncommittal

[tavalon]

39. There is no wiggle room here

All state boards would have at least suspended her, most would have outright revoked her license. This is a breach of professional conduct. Whether what she did on her personal time was ethical or not becomes a little murky (though when I worked in home health, I considered any time I interacted with my patients to be professional time), but really not much because no one compartmentalizes that well, and especially those who are sick and dying. I've always been surprised that nursing boards felt they had to spell this out - but I guess I can see why now. I'll admit I've never seen this specific breach of conduct.

[Pedalpower]

44. Just another non-story to keep us divided...

I believe that nurses should refrain from having sex with patients, and I'm sorry that his actions caused his wife additional pain, but part of me is glad that the poor guy found a bit of happiness near the end. Mostly, though, I don't care.

Who benefits or is harmed from her being banned from nursing? a few or none. Who knows.

This isn't news. We're overwhelmed by a constant flow of non-news.

[May Hamm]

52. He attempted suicide

Doesn't that imply to you that he didn't exactly find a bit of pleasure at the end of life but rather was lured into something he found deeply shameful.

[joshcryer]

56. I highly doubt he starved himself out of "shame." He had ALS and probably gave up.

I've seen quite a few ALS documentaries, and have researched the disease a lot, and to survive it you must be an incredible fighter, and then, your odds of survival are still < 5 years.

[PCIntern]

47. The statement I used to ask my dental students when

they would query me about asking a patient out was:

You have to ask yourself: do I need the date or do I need the career? All you need is one 'mistake', one person who feels as though he/she were betrayed by you, seduced by you, and you're guilty. Even if nothing happened, everyone will assume you're guilty, and yo're finished. Better to meet someone out of the office...

[tavalon]

58. It's just ethics

I would never consider such a thing.

[uppityperson]

48. Licensed 3 yrs. lose license for 20. I agree she should lose her license, but think 10 yrs

would be good. It will be a blotch on her record forever. She will have to work hard to find opportunities to interact professionally under supervision to prove she should get relicensed.

No, nurses should not have sex with patients. It is very unethical. If 2 people are drawn together, the nurse needs to stop any sort of professional relationship and be very very very careful of how he/she gets further involved.

[RegieRocker]

53. You got to be kidding me! Just when I thought there was no hope

for health care you hear a story like this and some have to ruin it. : sarcasm: