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Michael Berube: Libya and the Left

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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 04:32 PM
Original message
Michael Berube: Libya and the Left
In late March of 2011, a massacre was averted—not just any ordinary massacre, mind you. For had Qaddafi and his forces managed to crush the Libyan rebellion in what was then its stronghold, Benghazi, the aftershocks would have reverberated well beyond eastern Libya. As Tom Malinowski of Human Rights Watch wrote, “Qaddafi’s victory—alongside Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak’s fall—would have signaled to other authoritarian governments from Syria to Saudi Arabia to China that if you negotiate with protesters you lose, but if you kill them you win.”

It may be that some of the knee-jerk opposition to US involvement in Libya—that is, the kind that does not take into account the momentum from the revolutions in Tunisia and Egypt, or the support for NATO action by the Arab League and the United Nations—is an epiphenomenon of the left’s version of Obama Derangement Syndrome. In the U.S., ODS is especially pronounced among the “netroots,” where “progressive” bloggers vie to outdo each other in the agonies of their disappointment in and/or the virulence of their disdain for Obama’s presidency. (Last I looked, they had moved on from determining that Obama is worse than Bush, and had begun deliberations as to whether he is the worst president in U.S. history—though one of the more restrained frontpagers at FireDogLake did say, in July 2011, “I’m not ready to crown Barack Obama the Worst President Ever just yet.”)

What I was newly struck by—in a way that challenged even my usual cynicism about human affairs—was the frequency and the volume of dead-ender sentiments that began popping up in almost every liberal/progressive blog’s comment threads. It was as if everyone and her brother already knew what to say, needing only to download the appropriate template for the occasion: Western relations with Qaddafi had warmed since 2003, so the attack was pure hypocrisy; this is all about oil; Qaddafi was just one of the monsters we created and supported from the beginning; the rebels are seeded with agents of the CIA; this is all about oil; the attack was planned long in advance, and merely wanted an opportune moment; Obama is Bush’s third term; NATO’s motives are not 99 and 44/100 percent pure; the rebels are thugs and theocrats, like the Kosovo Liberation Army before them; the rebels’ celebrations are just like those of post-Saddam Iraq; if the U.S. were really concerned about Libya then why isn’t it intervening in Bahrain and Syria and Saudi Arabia (though we reserve the right to protest if and when it does); and, once more for the old folks at home, this is all about oil.

For his dogged attempts to talk about Libya sensibly and evenhandedly, (Juan) Cole earned the admiration of much of the blogosphere, which, on matters of foreign policy, does not offer much that can be called informed comment. And he earned himself the usual sobriquets from the usual suspects for the usual reasons, which can be summed up reasonably well by the critics who stopped by his blog to tell him that he is an agent of the Empire. No doubt Professor Cole already knew that, although his secret-imperial-agent status did not prevent conservatives from organizing to deny him an offer from Yale University on the grounds that he was unacceptably critical of Israel. The ways of the Empire are mysterious.

http://www.thepointmag.com/2011/politics/libya-and-the-left
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napoleon_in_rags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. if you negotiate with protesters you lose, but if you kill them you win.
The way I see it, the problem is that since the Iraq and Afghanistan involvements, everything that happens over there gets the "The US endorses that" prefix added on, making for

The US endorses that if you negotiate with protesters you lose, but if you kill them you win.

So the US was inevitably tangled in it from the beginning, since they have taken on the role of regional enforcer. To me there is no valid questioning of the Libyan conflict that doesn't also question the preceding conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan as well, as the latter is a consequence of the former.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. An Excellent Article, Sir:Thank You For Sharing It
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. First the left had BDS, now it has ODS..
Both terms are insulting to anyone who disagrees/disagrees with Bush/Obama.

Dead enders?

:shrug:
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. You missed this
Lest I be misunderstood (though I will be, despite this attempt at interpretive prophylaxis), I am not insisting that support for NATO military action in Libya should have been a litmus test issue for the left. For one thing, the Libya action, like the Kosovo action before it, put paid to the usual left-right configurations, leaving everyone with unexpected and/or unsavory allies. More to the point, there were and are good reasons to mistrust the rebels, and there were and are good reasons to worry about the extent and the ramifications of any US military involvement anywhere. I am simply insisting that there is a world of difference between these standard caveats and University of Illinois law professor Francis Boyle’s claim that the Libya action was an “all-out war” of “plunder and aggression.” Or antiwar activist and 9/11 Truther Steve Lendman’s declaration that “after covering Libya’s rape since last winter in dozens of articles, no forgiving or forgetting is possible for one of history’s great crimes.”
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I didn't get past ODS
That's the point I quit reading because what I was reading was propaganda.

Propaganda based on a right wing meme, Bush Derangement Syndrome.

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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. if the shoe fits....
:shrug:
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. If you're comfortable using right wing memes go ahead and knock yourself out..
I was called deranged by the Dubya lovers, now I'm called deranged by the Obama lovers.

If a DUer had called another DUer "deranged" in 2008 the post would have been deleted, that's a sign of how far this place has fallen.

:hi:
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thank you. Appreciated.
What bothered me about some of the criticisms was that Libyans who were stepping up to the plate to die, could go to hell because they asked for assistance, and got it.

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Prometheus Bound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 08:22 PM
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7. His opening sentence, on which his whole thesis rests, has turned out to be a false assumption.
A mighty poor war propagandist.

He seems to regard "the left" as a monolithic entity and then proceeds to associate it with disdainful collocations (opportunists, specious arguments, Obama Derangement Syndrome, Manichean, dead-enders, shibboleths, anti-American), while sort of including himself among the left. The poor fellow's not worth reading, I'm afraid. Sorry I wasted my time.

He should stick to critiquing Harry Potter books.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Yep, the piece is chock-a-block full of right wing memes and insults.
And yet it's getting thumbs up from DUers who think it's great.

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Prometheus Bound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Yes, contrast his description of warmonger Cole with anti-war Pilger, Fisk, Cockburn and Petras
Cole: sensible, evenhanded, admired

VS

Alexander Cockburn, James Petras, Robert Fisk, John Pilger: all of them still fighting Vietnam, stranded for decades on a remote ideological island with no way of contacting any contemporary geopolitical reality whatsoever—weighed in with the usual denunciations of US imperialism and predictions that Libya would be carved up for its oil.

This guy's a PNAC wannabe.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
8. kick
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
12. A DLC propagandist with all the talking points neatly arranged
Edited on Sat Nov-05-11 08:51 PM by sabrina 1
in order, almost as good as his cohorts on the right. Bad enough we have them on the right, now we have them on the 'left'. I don't think I've ever such drivel even from the right during the Bush years. As if any of this was about 'left/right'. But then, that's the old way, split everything into two boxes and don't allow anyone out of those boxes. Yawn is all I can say, he is so 'nineties, he needs new material, the world has moved way past this old style 'left/right' propaganda.

Libya is a mess, it was an invasion by the Imperial Powers and all we will get on our MSM and the Imperial media will be propaganda. Fortunately no one relies on those sources anymore.

War crimes, brutal, vicious revenge killings continue and civilians are living in terror. Young Libyan girls interviewed by foreign media are afraid to go anywhere, have lost their homes, their schools, their loved ones and many of them, if they survive without being murdered and/or raped, will be traumatized for the rest of their lives.

But just like Iraq, we don't want to talk about the Libyan civilians whose lives are now forever destroyed. Only here in the US is there anyone still believing this was anything other than an imperial invasion on a sovereign nation, for its resources. Same old Colonial story, amazing people are so blind still.

unrec for sheer stupidity and the same kind of cheering for the destruction of other people's countries because this time it was 'our team' doing it.

Human Rights orgs want to know why NATO is not protecting civilians, but I think they know why.

So nice to live in an Empire and make decisions about other people's lives from our comfortable living rooms.

The mass graves, still not investigated, the murder of Gadaffi and his son by NATO using the thugs they will eventually have to despose of, just like Iraq, on the ground, is supposed to be investigated by the UN. Odd how they don't seem to care about all these murders and rapes and torture anymore.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-06-11 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Hey. We "helped" them!
Our interests were purely "Humanitarian".






If you're not FOR the NEW WAR in Libya,
you're WITH The Communists AlQaeda The Terrorists Saddam Qaddafi!!!

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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-06-11 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. What is remarkable is that those who supported this brutal
attack on an African nation, claimed 'humanitarianism' but they have no concerns now for the millions who were supporters of their government (hey, if we don't like someone, who cares what their people like) living in terror, and not just terror, but with their country now totally destabilized and thugs running around the place ARMED by the 'humanitarians', many are being killed, brutally and tortured and raped. What happened to all that 'humanitarianism'? There are no calls for the protection of these civilians or for investigations into the massacres, now several that have discovered.

I notice the attempt in the article to dismiss actual facts, such as the fact that Libya was a pretty decent place to live, that the government actually did share its oil profits with its people, that it owed no one, the World Bank, the IMF, anything, and that it also helped out other African nations with education eg, and employment, (Black Africans, as they have said, those who survived the murderous 'rebels', that they were safe under the Gadaffi government, but now either had to flee for their lives if they could, or remain in hiding in a country where they once were able to make a decent living.

A beautiful country has been totally destroyed by over 9000 bomb missions. And we are supposed to believe they were there to protect civilians. The numbers killed, according to the agencies in charge of documenting these things, are at least 30,000 - 50,000 but we'll never know now, just like Iraq where they claimed 'we don't do body counts' 'cause it makes us look bad.

What happened to Libya, as several African civic leaders have said, is a travesty for Africa, 'a return to Colonialism' and that to them 'Gadaffi is a hero'. But who cares what Africans have to say, they need to start worrying about their own nations now especially if the Western Imperial nations, who are deeply in trouble financially and in need of resources, start talking about sending them some 'Humanitarian Aid'.

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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
13. omg what utterly pathetic, intelligence-insulting tripe.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-11 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
14. Disgusting and dishonest in the vein of Juan Cole.
Edited on Sat Nov-05-11 09:03 PM by EFerrari
In fact, it looks like his tripe rearranged.
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