It's the last ever DU fund drive! What? Why?!

[Skinner]

Dear DUers,

Every three months for the last eleven years we have come to you with hat in hand and asked for donations to keep DU running. And every three months for the last eleven years, you have come through. DU continues to thrive and we are eternally grateful for your support.

So why are we no longer going to ask for donations?

The truth is that DU isn't the scrappy underdog that it was when we first started asking for your support. Back in those days you could see where your money was going. Our single server would crash constantly -- eventually we brought in enough money to buy a new one (we're up to seven now). Database errors took ages to fix because we couldn't afford to pay Elad, so whenever we needed him we'd have to call him at his job at the local health food store (true story) -- eventually we were able to pay him a full time salary.

But that was then, and for a long time now DU has been the largest liberal discussion forum on the Web. Since 2005 we brought in a good chunk of our revenue by serving ads to our visitors, which is why we haven't had to increase our 1,000 donation goal since we started doing fund drives. But as DU approaches its teenage years, we've decided it's time for us to grow up too and stop asking for handouts. We don't want http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2805541/posts">this to be the future of DU.

Don't get me wrong -- we still need money. Running a website the size and scope of DU is no small endeavor. It costs a ton of cash to cover server storage, bandwidth, rent, legal fees, and everything else that comes with running a small business. This is a full time job for three people. But while you may think of DU as many things -- a community, a confessional, a place to organize, have fun, argue, make new friends and (of course) unite against the right-wing -- the Admins no longer want you to think of us as needing charity.

Many of you have probably heard that we've been working on a big new update to the site -- codenamed DU3 -- for some time now. At this point DU3 is not just on the doorstep but banging on the door and rattling the handle, and as part of the myriad changes we're making to the site we've decided to switch to a different fundraising model. On DU3 you will still be able to buy a star which will remove all of the ads from the site and provide you with access to special functions and features -- and you'll still be doing your part to keep DU running -- but we are ending our traditional quarterly fund drives. Instead, stars (and the benefits that come with them) will be available for purchase on a monthly or yearly basis for as little as $3.50 a month. And as always, those who choose not to purchase a star will still be able to post and participate free of charge.

This is our last ever fund drive because DU3 will be launched before the end of the year. And here's something important to know: anyone who is a DU donor when we switch over to DU3 will be grandfathered in to the new system and retain their donor star and privileges for one full year from the time they donated. So if you don't currently have a donor star, or if you already have one but would like to extend for a year at the price of your choosing, now is the time to donate.

Thank you all very much for your past, present, and future support as we look forward to providing you with THE best discussion forum on the Internets!

Skinner, EarlG, and Elad
DU Administrators

[mzteris]

1. but, but, but . . .

what about the HEARTS? :loveya:

[Skinner]

8. I think you might see the hearts again.

But if you do, they will not be affiliated with a fund drive.

[eppur_se_muova]

32. Could we have kudos instead of hearts?

I just want to see what a kudos looks like. :D

[Bette Noir]

112. I don't know about kudos,

but kudus look like this: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Kudu&h=191&w=250&sz=22&tbnid=yJzkx3Ew452_9M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=118&zoom=1&docid=Qv8yTL7P-mE1HM&sa=X&ei=rXbATpueHeeYiALf_tzAAw&ved=0CFkQ9QEwBA&dur=2191

And kudzu looks like this:http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Kudu&h=191&w=250&sz=22&tbnid=yJzkx3Ew452_9M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=118&zoom=1&docid=Qv8yTL7P-mE1HM&sa=X&ei=rXbATpueHeeYiALf_tzAAw&ved=0CFkQ9QEwBA&dur=2191

[harmonicon]

277. here you go:

[Howler]

88. I really REALLY LOVE the heart thingy Skinner

I'm very happy to hear that they will still be here .

[FourScore]

149. Yea, what seabeyond said. n/t

[tavalon]

154. Good, I think we all liked those

[emilyg]

206. I want kittens.

[trueblue2007]

260. kittens would be nice. I DONATED WHAT $$ THAT I COULD.

wish i had dough.... and i could give you more. next year i will have more money and will donate more.

hugs to DU

[Enthusiast]

273. And ponies.

[calimary]

505. What about stickies, Skinner? I enjoyed those a lot, too!

Just wondering.

:hi: :patriot: :yourock:

[Leopolds Ghost]

539. This is my first hearing of DU3. Sounds like it'll be a completely different site. Why should I pay

For something that's not the DU people know and love?



I've been here since before the recs and unrecs, why fix what ain't broken?

It sounds like the new system is closer to Reddit or a social networking site (ugh!) than the traditional bulletin board we have now.

[Leopolds Ghost]

540. Will non-premium members be able to vote in polls? Search? Will GD still look relatively the same?

These are the questions I'd like to know.

Keep in mind I've come here less and less since Obama got elected and changed his campaign promise on FISA and mandated private healthcare. So I suppose you don't need people like me, since most Dems are apparently fairly conservative and have never been more solidly behind their President as they appear to be today, as evidenced by DU's skyrocketing views.

[Aerows]

302. Sweet! n/t

[wryter2000]

371. We could have a fundraiser for charity

I don't want to lose hearts, either. I also like stickies. :hi:

[defendandprotect]

408. Will you also end fund-raising for the Dem Party/Dem candidates After all, no connection...?

between Dem Party and DU, so why bother?

[SidDithers]

442. ROFL...

So freaking predictable. :rofl:

Sid

[seabeyond]

15. my first thought, too. nt

[FourScore]

148. That was my first thought, too!

:loveya:

[NYC_SKP]

2. ROFL @ what we don't want to be the future of DU...

No we don't want that!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2805541/posts

:rofl:

[crim son]

11. Ugh, you made me look!

:scared:

[ProfessionalLeftist]

19. I loved that! Major awesome snark.LOL! n/t

[pipi_k]

25. I know...it's hilarious!

:rofl:

[progressoid]

37. + infinity!

[JI7]

53. anyone ever figured out what the money raised there goes towards ?

their website is the same as it was in the 90s or whenever it first started.

[Frank Cannon]

96. Sex tours with Rush Limbaugh to the Dominican Republic.

Because it sure as hell isn't invested in that site.

[krispos42]

144. JimRob's RimJobs

And they occasionally buy a new hamster for the server's wheel.

[rpannier]

259. Squirrel and hamster food

DU doesn't power itself
Cutting edge rodent technology makes it happen

[Donnachaidh]

108. eww -- I need to disinfect my hard drive now

:rofl:

[pipoman]

160. I've read a lot of Skinner's posts over the years..

I just can't think Skinner has/would ever use the term, "get 'er done!!", in any post on DU..

[robinlynne]

172. How many of them are there over there anyway? Does anyone know?

[klook]

215. Hilarious -- Web 1995-style

From back when there was only one Internet.

[immoderate]

248. The freep logo has a nasty looking eagle and looks like it's stolen from a beer can.

Esthetics ain't them.

--imm

[tavalon]

270. Damn your hypnotic dancing smiley

Between you and the person who uses the bug crawley, I get sucked in so quickly. Oh, to not be so easily hypnotized! Wish I were less easily influenced!

[geardaddy]

350. *shudder*

I couldn't stop looking.

I need to shower with steel wool and bleach.

[Hutzpa]

3. Let me be the first to kick this

looking forward to exciting times ahead with the DU community.

:kick:

:thumbsup:

[Duer 157099]

4. Yay! I'm the first of the last!!

I've always wanted to be the last to donate but never managed. But first?!? And for the last time?? Wow, that made my day.

:D

[robinlynne]

176. lol.

[valerief]

5. Congrats on your well-deserved success. nt

[WillParkinson]

6. Good luck.

:)

[nc4bo]

7. What will the price be annually? 12 x the new monthly rate?

I gotta know $$'s tight........

[Skinner]

18. I think it's going to be:

$5/month, OR
$3.50/month when you purchase a yearly recurring membership (for $42).

[arikara]

29. Unfortunately thats unaffordable

at my income level. I liked to be able to help out someone else without a star when I could and that will be out now too.

[progressoid]

40. I have to agree with that.

I understand the need to make these changes but am afraid it may not work for a lot of us.

[nc4bo]

50. ...

Now there will be some snide remarks about those who can afford to pay the new prices against those who can not, especially in this crappy economy many of us aren't sure where our next income source will come from. It's only human.

We'll see how this goes, perhaps we'll get some good contracts next year and things won't be so shaky.

[NMMNG]

75. Sadly it's going to turn DU into what we're so ardently against

Class warfare. The 1% will rule and have freer speech/more rights (access to the "special features"). Those who can't afford to pay the fees will have to sit back and deal. Some people are more equal than others...

[Dover]

79. +1000

[MADem]

86. Money Equals Speech. A shame. nt

[NMMNG]

97. That's the way it is all over

I guess we shouldn't be surprised it would be so here.

[MADem]

136. I know. I've been crabbing about it for years.

No one listens!!

Why should things be different here, I guess!

[Dover]

159. It's unfortunate, but maybe instead of speaking out on DU we can take it to the streets!

I'm guessing we may all be taking more direct action next year.

[tavalon]

228. Easy guess, since we're already out in the streets!

Lol.

[intheflow]

358. I don't see why you're saying "money equals speech."

From the OP:

as always, those who choose not to purchase a star will still be able to post and participate free of charge.

I'm commenting here as someone who probably won't be able to pay the new cost, but really, this comment is unfair and untrue.

[bbgrunt]

131. sad that this new "membership policy" comes with the

end of the "need" for fund drives. Sounds a bit corporate.

[uppityperson]

135. No more "asking for handouts", just demanding payment. The wording really rubs me the wrong way

seems manipulative (not meaning you but the OP). Less is more! Those who can pay $42-60/yr get more! Those who can't, well, isn't it exciting? :sarcasm:

I guess we should just move somewhere where there are jobs, right? Skinner, I understand the business need, but this is not a good way to go about this.

[woo me with science]

155. War is Peace.

Freedom is Slavery.
Ignorance is Strength.

And we're not asking for handouts anymore.

Yes, the wording is insulting when more is not being asked, but demanded. Like in everything else these days, the two tiers at DU are now being clarified and solidified.

Very expressive of the new Democratic Party.

[uppityperson]

157. Thank you. I was hoping I wasn't the only one who noticed the wording.

I do hope Skinner takes the time to read what people are saying. The wording is manipulative (maybe they won't notice) and insulting.

[a simple pattern]

252. Well, maybe it will help to tell who's who.

The grassroots from the AstroTurf if you will.

[aquart]

332. And what kind of ground cover am I?

[defendandprotect]

477. I think you mean will help make clear who has $$ and who hasn't got $$ here ... !!

Kind of like "Super Delegates" and "Super Congress" ... we now have

a "Super DU" based on ability to pay up!

[Bonobo]

437. +1. I particularly like the sunset at the end in the pic above.

"No more fundraising ever!

It was an insulting bit of rhetoric.

It made me want to wash.

[defendandprotect]

478. But ....

ONLY after letting us know how well off financially the administrators have become!!

Evidently DU website may be worth $14 million?

Seems a lot of people here can't tell the difference between progress and greed!

[defendandprotect]

401. k/r

[Chimichurri]

514. I totally agree and I'm surprised these comments have not yet been deleted.

[defendandprotect]

534. We could all pool our bucks and start a NO FEE-democraticunderground? hmmm....

What's the numbers on how many actually post here in a week, let's say?

[Vanje]

561. +++++++++++++++++++++++!!!! nt

[arikara]

253. My first thought exactly

DU has become corporate, ironically just when the 99% are fighting against that sort of thing.

[inna]

165. +

[octothorpe]

211. What special features, other than not seeing ads and group postings?

[NMMNG]

217. That hasn't been made entirely clear yet

:shrug:

[kas125]

229. Yeah, I'd like to know that, too. If I'm going to have to fork out

more money that I can't really afford, I'd like to know exactly what I'm going to get for it first.

[harmonicon]

278. Where did he say that people who pay will have access to special features? nt.

[NMMNG]

285. In the OP

On DU3 you will still be able to buy a star which will remove all of the ads from the site and provide you with access to special functions and features...

[intheflow]

361. Self-delete.

[Mimosa]

284. Yikes. Very 'free market capitalist' sounding. n/t

[Javaman]

305. 1+

same story for me.

I guess I'll be relegated to the lower non-paying DU obsever.

I find this an odd change at this time, considering the economy. Really, in my opinion, not the wisest move.

And frankly, growing up doesn't mean short changing people.

oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

[pengillian101]

549. +1 (n/t)

[greiner3]

337. IMHO;

Me thinks you may want to rethink your post. Any person, object or corporate entity that makes disparaging remarks re a 'real' DU'ers financial situation is marked as a freeper and will, for me at least, afford a great opportunity to add to the ignore list.

[NMMNG]

441. Take that great opportunity

Add me to your ignore list. :shrug:

[defendandprotect]

400. +1 -- I've seen this elsewhere --- agree!

[Vanje]

560. +1

[awoke_in_2003]

262. on edit: nevermind...

groups will be opening to all

[Viva_La_Revolution]

107. mine too. I couldn't even scrape up $10 this year for a star

a special Du'er bought one for me, I doubt that's gonna happen for anyone again at $40.
:(

[tavalon]

161. But others will hopefully pick up the slack

Almost always, I have been in a position during fund drives to pick five people to give stars to. Now, I'll just do about 10 a year. Should be about the same out of pocket for me and I know other people did that too. We'll just have to start threads reminding people to star our less fortunate fellow DUers. And since this isn't that other site, we will do it. I know we will.

[robinlynne]

177. me too, but we will still be HERE! Ads won't keep me away from DU.

[shanti]

179. heard that

:(

[Le Taz Hot]

320. I haven't been able to donate for

about 2 years now. Luckily, other DUers have kindly donated for me. Unfortunately, I, too, won't be able to donate and I can't see anyone stepping in due to the monthly encumberance placed upon them. I know $3.50 a month sounds like a ridiculously small amount, and it is, but $3.50 a month is enough for a gallon of milk and my choice is clear. Skinner's original post says something about "for those who 'choose' not to donate" was dismaying. Yes, I 'chose' not to donate because food is more important.

[uppityperson]

122. So instead of being able to be a member @$5-10, it will now cost $42?

I am glad I will have a yr grandparented in, because I don't know if $42-60/yr will be doable.

THIS is a big announcement? That there won't be fundraisers, but it will cost us all more? And this is....good?

I am confused.

[nc4bo]

142. That about sums it up for me too

This announcement felt a little like a kick in the head. :wow:

[laundry_queen]

210. Ditto

I've been able to do about $6-10/yr for many years now, and one year I couldn't even do that and some generous soul gave me a star. $42/yr is simply too much for me right now. I guess I'd better go looking for ad-blocking software. When I'm out of school, I'll see how the job market goes and then maybe I can, but right now, I just can't. This is very disappointing.

[emilyg]

209. It's no good. I'm with you.

[Mimosa]

282. It doesn't make sense to me.

Better to have ads and fundraisers than a 'fee' many can't afford.

[snooper2]

290. I've been a member free for a decade lol

[aquart]

331. It ain't good.

It is kinda outta touch.

[defendandprotect]

462. And, only because DU is doing so well -- evidently record profits from ads -- !! ROFL

[Cassandra]

199. Those of us who have been monthly...

will we be able to switch to yearly? When and how?

[Mimosa]

271. There are ADS on DU.

I don't understand the whole deal of 'memberships' which cost money when there are ads.

I used to have money to donate. Now I don't. In that I am in the same boat as millions of Americans. My income is 40% of what it was in the early 1990s.

[pengillian101]

550. My income these days is even less percentage-wise.

Imposing a mandatory fee isn't even realistic just to read and post here without advertisements.

[Enthusiast]

275. Like I said,

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." I think this change might be a terrible mistake. No, allow me to correct that. I KNOW this is a terrible mistake.

[aquart]

328. How many will donate $42 stars?

Every man for himself except the philanthropic ultra-rich?

[femrap]

363. That information should

be in the OP. Did you just take some Marketing Spin Class on how to hide the true cost of your service/product???? That's some nice small print....way down in the thread, the true cost is exposed.

Seriously...so now it's $60/year + $12 for Paypal/enemy for a total of $72/yr???

And you have always accepted snail mail in the past....what do mean that you don't know how you'll handle it. Keeping Postal Workers employed is important. My grandfather was a rural mail carrier. I'd rather give 44 cents to them than a $1 to PayEnemy. The only power I have is where I spend/donate my funds.

And if one is banned during that year, does one get one's pro rata share returned?

[a2liberal]

390. How about a cheaper star with ads?

Something that the less well-off can more easily afford... still show ads but give the other premium features (or some decent subset of them). Also make it look the same to "outside" observers, no visibility of the different tiers. That would allow people to still show their support for DU without having to be embarrassed about only being able to afford the lower tier but still allow DU to get money from those able/willing to pay more to get all if the features and no ads (but make ads optional for them too so they can turn them on if they don't mind them and want DU to get the extra money).

[tigereye]

450. that's a good idea...

It's wild that DU3 is almost here...

[Vanje]

559. Oh.

I guess thats how we keep the riff-raff out.

[Fire Walk With Me]

9. Done.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

10. K&R

:applause: :yourock: :applause: :yourock: :applause: :yourock: :applause:

[Shining Jack]

524. :facepalm:

[lpbk2713]

12. But whatever will become of Grovelbot?

We have grown to know him and to love him.

[nc4bo]

13. Grovelbot = sessy. LOL nt

[NYC_SKP]

26. If you look very closely, you'll see that Grovelbot seems to have taken up with a Horse.

I wish them well...






.


.


:hi:

[ThoughtCriminal]

59. I hope it does not have to explore other options

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2287678&mesg_id=2287678

But I think he(?) will end up moving in with Crow and Tom Servo.

[Electric Monk]

14. I'll miss GrovelBot...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=bigboard

[stuntcat]

33. aw, Grovelbot :)

I think Grovelbot's cute! :loveya:

[Tsiyu]

16. K & R

So $42 a year will do it.....it will be a stretch for some, but maybe times will get better for all of us, and we have a year to work it out in any case


Grovelbot is gonna be so lonely....

[Vanje]

562. Its worth it

because it gets rid of the riff-raff.
I mean the riff-raff will still be allowed to post here, but will be recognized by all for what they are.
The more comfortably off...you know , better people , will be MORE equal, and blessedly, more visible here on DU, as befits their station.

[cherokeeprogressive]

17. I think you should sell unrecs. Or better yet, sell unrec INSURANCE!

Buy a star and no one can unrec your threads!

Perfect.

[Jackpine Radical]

174. Buy a star & get 1 Unrec forgiven for every $ you contribute.

Sorta like buying & selling indulgences in the Medieval Church.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

431. LOL!!

---->





:hi:

[robinlynne]

178. You are a genius. You understand how they think. Glad you're on our side!

[grantcart]

188. snort

I understand DU3 will not have unrecs.

[cherokeeprogressive]

225. Imagine never again having the opportunity to

unrec a LoZo thread...

It's gonna be a tough existence.

[grantcart]

258. well he has an excuse

he's a lunatic


and as a self proclaimed lunatic myself that ain't all bad.

[tigereye]

452. ha ha!

[Vanje]

563. Sadly, I cannot

I was put on 'forced ignore' with that loon.

[tavalon]

230. Now, that would be awesome with awesome sauce on top!

[Javaman]

322. Get your DU indulgences here! LOL nt

[boston bean]

20. That is $42/yr to not see ads.

Less people will be able to buy others stars. Forcing people to see herman cain ads, vibrator ads, dead cows, sorry, I think it stinks.

and on edit since your reply of non-renewing membership or paying monthly, it's $60/year.

If things are working out so wonderfully, why change?

[GoCubsGo]

317. I don't give a shit about the ads.

I see them everywhere else, and if I don't like them, I use the Ad-Block extension on my Firefox browser. My problem is no longer having access to the groups. I've been one of the 14 million who are out of work for much of the past 4 years. I only have my star because some kind person gave it to me. It allows me to post in the various groups, and that ability will go away with this new system, as I do not expect, and I do not want anyone to shell out $42 so I can retain that privilege--unless that person were as filthy rich Warren Buffett or Bill Gates. That donated star was a nice luxury for those of us who live on beans and rice, get most of our clothes from the Goodwill, and post here from 10-year-old computers. So much for that...

[Javaman]

323. Yup, a class culling of the DU members...

you can't afford to join, well, tough shit. DU will only be for paying members, because, as we all know, only paying members are the only ones with opinions that matter!

[uppityperson]

459. Only star holders can be mods (per skinner, link here....)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=437&topic_id=5068&mesg_id=5074
"For one thing, star members are given more opportunities to help run the site, by serving as hosts in our big forums, by helping to keep the site clear of trolls (to name a couple things)." Skinner

[defendandprotect]

463. k/r -- interesting --

[Chimichurri]

516. that's very disheartening.

[defendandprotect]

531. Pretty much . . .

the same formula the Democratic Party followed over last decades --

"Super Delegates" -- now "Super Congress" -- and now "Super DU" -- !!

and in between taking money from RW slime like Koch Bros. who funded DLC --

not to mention the criminals like Pfizer and Chevron!


:puke:

[Vanje]

565. NEAT!

The privileged may BUY the opportunity to silence their lessors!

[Vanje]

564. Thats how I see it

Sadly, most years I HAVE been a paying member.
Not @ over 40 a year I wont.

Congratulations Skinner!
You have declared a class war right here.

[onenote]

379. If your problem is that you won't have access to the groups you don't have a problem

Since Skinner has made it clear that under the new system one won't have to pay anything to have access to the groups.

[tularetom]

21. Does this mean we can no longer look forward to smashing some right wing asshat in the teeth?

Figuratively speaking of course when the 800th donation is received.

[Javaman]

325. yup and no more hate mail other than...

disgruntled former DU members who can no longer post because they can't afford the membership fees.

[SidDithers]

444. How the fuck are you getting the idea that non-donors won't be able to post?...

Non-donors to DU3 will be able to post more than non-donors to DU2, because on DU3 they'll also have access to Groups.

Don't nobody read what Skinner actually posted?

:banghead:

Sid

[Javaman]

448. Oh sid...

please check your blood pressure.

tootles.

[Telly Savalas]

458. Creating an alternate set of facts makes it easier to sustain the victimhood.

[pinto]

22. Kudos.

:thumbsup:

:thumbsup:

[handmade34]

23. a very mature

and progressive move... ;)

[maddezmom]

24. will monthly donations also be grandfathered?

[Skinner]

31. I'm glad you asked.

This is actually a little confusing.

People currently signed up for monthly donations will receive the full year of Star Membership -- from the date of their last DU2 donation -- just like everyone else.

Once we move into the DU3 software, we will continue to charge monthly donors each month. People who are currently donating $5/per month will continue at $5/per month. They will receive full credit for their monthly payments, and additional months of membership purchased will be added on to the END of the year they received. (So, if anyone wants to just cancel and enjoy a full year of membership like everyone else, they are welcome to do so.)

We also have some monthly donors who are giving more than $5 per month. Unfortunately, PayPal does not give us the ability to decrease the amount that monthly subscribers are giving. So, there is no way for us to automatically decrease their monthly payments to $5. So, we can either continue taking their monthly payments at the higher rate (and give them full credit for the time they purchase), or we can cancel their monthly payments and they can sign up for a new monthly subscription at the $5/month rate (or not sign up for a new subscription, if they so choose).

[maddezmom]

35. thanks for the reply...makes sense

:)

[tigereye]

453. hey lady- long time no see!

:hi: How are ya?

[robinlynne]

180. Please, can we use another word? That sounds like my health insurance company.

[malaise]

27. Cool

Just keep our hearts
:D

[bdamomma]

544. for real malaise

love those secret admirers and the hearts:)

[CrispyQ]

28. ...but I like to buy a Star Upon Thar,

on edit: delete - read the whole post

[Dragonbreathp9d]

30. Freeper goal $88k? What are they doing? Flying to Thailand to indulge?

Their site looks like shit. Seriously, what the fuck do they need that much cash for?

[madrchsod]

57. rimjob`s ssi is getting cut....lol

[Capitalocracy]

77. Because GIVE ME THE MONEY OR I GO GALT

That's why. ;)

[SidDithers]

34. K&R...

Can't wait for DU3.

Sid

[Hassin Bin Sober]

But you won't be able to unrec. You'll be mute!

:P

[SidDithers]

289. It's one of the reasons I can't wait for DU3...

all of the rec and unrec / Greatest Page bullshit will go away.

Sid

[leeroysphitz]

36. I wish we could keep the fund drives and just redirect the proceeds to various needs and causes.

Then we could keep grovelbot and the hearts.

[mzteris]

41. good idea! n/t

[onehandle]

38. Have you learned nothing from RimJob?

Stick with BBS software from 1995 and fleece your suckers often.

[2Design]

39. oh boy that will cost some of us a lot more than we have been

paying and is unlikely to get anonymous help

That is $3.50 x 12 for a total of $42 a year for access to posting in some forums or not having ads

Well for now, I will make it over into the next year with a star but once that is done, not sure what will happen after 2012

This will definitely help your funding by have a subscription based site and it will be more steady. Many blogs have gone to subscriptions.

Growing a business does take funds and this will help your business.

I have enjoyed the time here. Not sure what the future will hold for my subscription.

[Solly Mack]

42. $42 / $60 a year - that's less than what I currently donate over a year.

Alrighty then.

Means I can help someone else out on a yearly donation! :)

[tavalon]

169. See, that's exactly what I was talking about!

Duers who are more fortunate help other DUers who aren't. The only challenge I see is remembering. The fund drive was always the time I dug around to find starless folks. I would do five each time, usually for about $10 each, sometimes more. So, I will just spread them out through the year. And I knew there were others doing it and I guessed that the others (like you!) would continue! Yay, this is one of the reasons I love DU!

As a fortunate union member, I want all of us to have equal access. It's the socialist in me. I have zero interest in being rich. I want only to keep my family fed and housed and happy. That doesn't require my whole income. I give away the rest to various charities, political and good causes. Starless DUers qualify as good causes.

[Solly Mack]

213. I definitely want to be able to help others. I'm not rich...not by a long shot.

But I do try and donate for others when I can.


Like you, I think many people will feel the same way.

[tavalon]

224. I believe that

I have to believe that to continue to associate with the human race.

[defendandprotect]

475. ... but if things were reversed ... would you want someone paying your fees for you?

Obviously, people prefer to be paying members and not charity cases --

Skinner has just finished telling us how well the administration is doing --

they are thriving on revenue from ads? DU website may be worth as much as $14 million!

So why turn around and burden members with a MANDATORY monthly fee -- or go starless?

If you think this is progress then you don't recognize greed when you see it!!

[Shining Jack]

525. [phone]!

[Vanje]

566. Yep nt

[OneGrassRoot]

43. Most excellent. Congrats to all involved in creating DU! K&R n/t

[CaliforniaPeggy]

44. I don't know why I am so very moved by this news, but I am...

I have been joyfully donating to every fund drive I've encountered since 2005, when I joined...

And now they're over?

I feel as though I've grown up with DU...

So many discussions, so much fun, every year...

So many friends.

Thank you.

:loveya:

[uppityperson]

139. Yes Peggy, fund drives are over. Now those with low income will have to come up with $60/yr

Personally, I'd rather have fund drives and be able to afford to stay on DU.

[tavalon]

181. I'm determined that my point of view will end up being what happens

Many of the more fortunate DUers have been giving stars to those who are less fortunate for as long as I've been here. I think, I hope that will continue. I am going to make sure I commit to continuing the practice and I encourage all the others who did that during the fund drives to commit to the same amount of money (or more?) throughout the year to help our comrades. I'm not a job creator or else I'd be hiring DUers , but I am still able to give away stars and I encourage all the others who were doing this during the fund drives, as I have, to do it all year.

Up above, I said I thought I could do about 10 a year, but I just got a step raise (unions, yay!) so I'm going to commit, right here and now, to doing one $42 star a month. I'll use Skinners monthly note to me as a reminder. Skinner, you will still be sending those auto thank yous out, right?

[defendandprotect]

446. I don't think it's a a promising sign that DU website is doing so well .....

and yet in future there will be many more members -- "less fortunate DUers" --

who will need help from others here to get stars!!

How does that make sense when Skinner is telling us very openly how profitable and

well set financially the DU website is due to ads?

Is this progress -- or is it something else?

[a la izquierda]

246. I'm not going to be able to afford membership...

my student loans come due in December. About $600/ month.
Oh well, I'll be sad to leave my buddies in the sports forum, but I'm not sure about this new policy. It's going to price an awful lot of people out.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

251. My dear a la izquierda...

Perhaps I can help you...

When does your star expire?

You can PM me if you don't want to say so out here...

And Skinner did say that people without stars will be able to play in the groups. So perhaps you'll still be able to participate in the sports forum, after all...

Remember, even folks without stars will be able to participate.

Let's see how it shakes out, OK?

:hug:

[awoke_in_2003]

263. "people without stars will be able to play in the groups"

I didn't see that. I am relieved. I can only donate sporadically, and would hate to not be able to visit the atheist/agnostic group.

[a la izquierda]

286. Peggy, you're such a sweetie...

I'll probably be able to make it work, I just have to wait and see how my job situation/location works out in the next year. See, I'm on a visiting contract right now, and I don't know where I'll end up. My student loans *might* be manageable, if I end up somewhere cheap.

So yes, let's see how it shakes out. I'd rather someone more needy than I get help. Most of my extra dough goes to help homeless animals, but I can likely just budget better. I think I was just feeling petulant late night.

You're a doll.:hug:

[ThatsMyBarack]

45. I donated!

:hi:

[csziggy]

46. I was hoping DU got enough money from Righthaven to fund the site forever

Oh well, this sound good.

I for one will not miss the Big Board, having made an idiot out of myself last time around.

[Downwinder]

243. +1 n/t

[Gidney N Cloyd]

47. Do mods get a price break?

[I Have A Dream]

48. Will you continue with the policy of not allowing people without stars...

to not be able to post in groups? If so, there will be a lot of people who will no longer be able to post in groups who were able to do so in the past because people bought them stars. :(

[Skinner]

52. Good question: On DU3, Groups will be open to people without stars.

On DU3, we are doing everything we can to raise the profile of the groups, and get lots more people posting in them.

[uppityperson]

127. That is good, but what " access to special functions and features" do you mean then?

I'm ok looking at ads, would like to be able to use groups. What " access to special functions and features" will paying give us? Thanks.

[Vanje]

567. If I may....

The 42-buck and above donor class of DUers will be able to moderate.
The well-to-do get to determine what the riff-raff classes write here.

[femrap]

369. There will be NO

GREATEST PAGE???? That's all I look at. I save time by reading what others think is important/funny/news-worthy. There will be no Recs????

I just don't get it. I really don't care about the 'groups.' I care about NEWS....THE NEWS THAT THE MSM IS NOT COVERING.

If it's not broken, don't fix it.

I really think I want to see this du3 before I pay anything....really, since you are going to be charging for a service, I want to see the service before I pay for it.

No GREATEST PAGE????

[intheflow]

382. The GP is my forum-of-choice, too.

God, the crap that gets posted in all the big forums, I hate having to wade through it all.

[femrap]

391. What a waste of time...

I won't pay if there is No Greatest Page...that's all I use. The recs are great.

[JNelson6563]

495. Once upon a time

There was no such things as recs, unrecs or the greatest page. Somehow we muddled through an remained living as civilized creatures.

I don't know how we did it.

It cracks me up to see people carrying on about little features here that weren't always there.

As a matter of fact, even more amusing are those protesting this "new" system of donors and non-donors that has been in place pretty much since DU went live.

So many lolz, so little time.

Julie

[femrap]

499. Julie

Nelson, I've been at DU for a mere six and a half years. I've enjoyed the Greatest Page. If it is not available with du3, I'm sure I will spend more time at the other sites I visit.

It's not like I'll miss posters like yourself. In fact, most of the posters that I befriended were banned...they were uppity, vocal women. So I'm thinking du3 is a good thing. I can certainly get my non-reported MSM news from somewhere else. And maybe this place has become a bad habit.

Why would I want to pay over $42 so I can amuse you? Go get your own fucking amusement....I'm sure you can afford it.

[JNelson6563]

507. I've seen many big changes here @ DU.

There once was no Greatest page, there was a wicked funny column every monday called Top 10 Conservative Idiots, there was no "GDP" in its various incarnations from the "p" standing for primary, politics, or as it is currently "President". Seen many features added, changes, posters come and go.

It's an internet forum that offers many features & free participation to all members. People can choose to interact or not. I don't understand the big deal.

BTW, I have been a non-paying member on and off over the years. I am an unemployed single mother. I will frequent DU, paid or not, as long as I get something positive out of it.


Julie

[femrap]

521. Yes, I remember all of those additions

and columns and I remember when the Presidency was added....it was so posters could avoid the hatefulness of the '08 primary.

Well, for someone who wants positivity, you certainly go about it in a snotty manner.

My mother was divorced in the '50's and had me to take care of...so I know all about it. In those days, if you got pregnant, you were FIRED.

Now women are encouraged by patriarchy to reproduce and raise a child on her own. It keeps them very busy with little time to think.

I'm unemployed as well....but didn't think I needed to crowd the world any further.

I think it's best that I no longer amuse you. Buh-bye.

[defendandprotect]

480. What exactly will be barred to STAR-LESS members -- ??? Good question -- !!

[Vanje]

568. You will not be allowed to moderate.

The paid members will determine what gets read here.

[HomerRamone]

49. So we won't be able to use the search functions

if we can't afford $3.50 a month?

[Skinner]

54. Not sure.

At this point, we have not programmed the search functions yet, so I'm not sure what the policy will be.

The DU Google search works pretty well.

[kas125]

232. I simply do not understand how you can ask us for more money

without even knowing yet what you're going to give us for it. You should have waited to spring this on us until you had all that sorted out. Sheesh.

[Tom Rinaldo]

416. This is not good Skinner

DU is the only major discussion forum I know where people who are dirt poor for whatever reason can participate on a par with people who rarely get to hear directly from people in that position. Usually I am a paid member here - sometimes I lapse when money is real tight. Yes I will buy a star now but I am saddened by your choice. The way you introduced it was worthy of any spin factory, and that saddens me even further.

Skinner this is not good news for a whole lot of us, maybe most of us, but you made it sound like a gift. Just another marketing led sign of the times at a time when more of us are falling into poverty every day.

Fuck the bells and whistles if this is your way of paying for them. Could you consider keeping ads, but screening out ones that are at odds with the goals of DU? Most of us don't mind progressive ads, even progressive commercial ones.

[TygrBright]

51. Dear, dear Daves and Elad...

So cool to see how far DU has come. I love it.

Two questions:

1. Will there be some way to donate that does not involve the fookshites at Paypal? Bitcoins or something?

2. And, if not, will we still be able to send in an annual check via snail mail?

hopefully,
Bright

[Skinner]

58. PayPal provides an option to pay with a credit card without creating a PayPal account.

Other than that, I'm not sure how we will handle mail payments. We need to hammer out the details soon.

[TygrBright]

72. I know you don't have to have a Paypal account to make payments.

But I don't want those lying fookshites to keep building their business into a monopoly on online payments that feels free to "ban" payments to free speech organizations like Wikileaks, etc.

Just me being a curmudgeonatrix, I guess.

One way or another I'll figure out a way to keep supporting DU.

I'm just so proud of this site and of you guys.

wistfully,
Bright

[dixiegrrrrl]

81. Skinner, Paypal does not play well with Linux/FF.

I have to go to my dying Windows machine to donate via credit card, which I just did 5 days ago.
Paypal on Linux will not go to the page where a CC is an option, this page comes up instead:

Sorry — your last action could not be completed

If you were making a purchase or sending money, we recommend that you check both your PayPal account and your email for a transaction confirmation after 30 minutes.

If you came to this page from another website, please return to that site (don't use your browser's Back button) and restart your activity.

If you came from PayPal's website, click the PayPal logo in the upper-left corner to return to our home page and restart your activity. You might have to log in again.


However, I just found that Linus using Opera browswer DOES put me on the Paypal page where I can skip registration and pay with credit card.
Interesting.

[HillWilliam]

204. AHA! Thanks for finding the workaround

I use Linux/FF 99.98% of the time. I do have XP virtuals, but when I ran into that error message the last time, I backtracked and paid for my order another way. (When I want a gadget, I want a gadget heh!)



Hey Skinner, how's the development for mobile going on DU3? How will the views change when/if our star expires? I'm still unemployed and looking hard for a new job but things are really really tight. I understand the need for a price increase. I just don't know when I'll be able to afford a new subscription. I catch up on DU when I'm waiting for interviewers (love my tab!). A true mobile view would be awesome.

[dixiegrrrrl]

296. I refuse to support Paypal, esp after what they did to Wikileaks.

[femrap]

362. Me, too...

Doesn't Paypal (PayEnemy) charge $1 for every transaction? So someone paying on a monthly basis would be out of pocket $54.00/yr, right?

In the past, I have used Snail Mail to send my DU 'donation'...I like it. It keeps Postal Workers employed. Now Skinner says, 'We don't know how we'll handle snail mail.' He always has in the past. WTF?

Hell, the only power I/we have is where I/we spend my/our money...and damn if I'm giving the PayEnemies one damn cent.

I like the Postal Service. My grandfather was a rural mail carrier. I'm sending a ton of Holiday cards (not made in China and made of recycled materials) this year. I want the Postal Workers EMPLOYED AND MAKING A DECENT LIVING.

I don't like the 'spin' put on this by the Administration. And in the past, none of my ALERTS have been acknowledged. So now I will pay $42.44 to be ignored by the moderators.

And what if I get banned during the year? Do I get my pro-rata dollars back???

[tavalon]

185. I don't mind the current pay system, but I do have a question

I will still be able to delineate another DUer to get a star, as I can now, right?

[dropkickpa]

334. The credit card option does not work

If you have/had an account with paypal, it will MAKE you try to login to your account and, sorry, but I'm not getting a new credit card just to play with paypal. 5 years of fighting with them to get my crap fixed, and it still won't let me log in, even with customer service help. Fuck them.

[Mimosa]

55. I can't afford to contribute but I will

I have contributed what I could in the past.

Can somebody show me a link to contribute now?

I am supposing DU will have rich 'angels' to help us in the future.

[tavalon]

186. I wouldn't call us rich nor angels, just good people helping good people

Yes, we will still be here.

[Renew Deal]

56. Can I personally tombstone Grovelbot?

:evilgrin:

I have mixed feelings about this. I donate more than $3.50 a month. In theory DU will get cheaper for me. I will also miss the Valentines hearts and the Big Board.

I can't wait for DU3. It's going to be a great step forward for our community. :bounce:

[shanti]

191. it's nice that it will be cheaper for you

but it's going to get much more expen$ive for many of us. i'm kind of an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" kind of person....but I'm willing to give this some thought....

[Another Bill C.]

60. The subscription rate

is too high for some of us but wealth has always had its privileges and this is just one more.

[I Have A Dream]

66. Yes, this is the sad part about this.

I understand that the site needs a reliable source of funding. However, once again low income people have less access (given the cost), which is something that has always bothered me.

I'm happy to hear that the groups will be available to everyone though.

[Atman]

84. SUGGESTION to help out those who can't afford the $42...tiered sub rates.

I belong to a snowboarding forum that starts for free, but you get banners and skyscrapers and even ad blocks within threads. For a really cheap rate, they get rid of MOST of the ads. Full membership and you're ad-free.

Also, I imagine that DUers will still be able to donate "stars" to others. Also, how about a cheap rate for search-access only? Maybe the results pages for these people include small ads, while still providing access.

And perhaps quarterly rates (works pretty well at Cafe Press and Sirius XM) instead of a yearly lump sum. The important thing is, NO ONE will get locked out...you just might have to deal with ads.

Anyway, it was inevitable. We should be happy for Skinner's, et al, success, and the roles we've played in helping DU grow. If you weren't paying before, it doesn't sound like anything will change for you. But there still should be a way for those steady $5 donors to sign up on some level. I'm sure they'll work it out.

[robinlynne]

190. I think somehow mods have to amke sure to not lose those of us who can't afford

the price. Our voices are just as important a part of DU. Tiers for out of work DUers or something like that.
I will not be able to give 5 a month, personally. I don't have cable or eat out or buy clothing or any of those luxuries either. Just don't exclude us.
Make sure to keep the Democratic part
and the Underground part.

[tpsbmam]

393. Not just "as important"......essential.

DU can't become a forum for the "haves." What a terrible thought! The soul of DU comes from its members and our wide scope of just plain being. Losing low-income voices would be cropping out so much of the soul as to kill it.

[Atman]

85. Delete-dupe.

.

[sarcasmo]

123. Right on, the lower income people who post here get screwed.

Running this site like a bank.

[Auntie Bush]

360. And you know wht occupy did to a bank!

I'm on a low fixed income and get heating assistance...but this year gov funds are definitely down and I'm afraid I'll lose them. there is no way I can afford any more money toward donations. I just got my oil bill for 2 weeks. It was $244.00 and it isn't even cold yet. There is no spare money! It's upsetting to think of doing without any privileges on DU. :scared:

[K8-EEE]

61. Progressive site PROGRESSES AND IMPROVES while

Freeperville shrinks and atrophies and spends 12 months a year begging....

WHY AM I NOT SURPRISED!!

Good work DU!

[juajen]

577. I am not sure what my opinion of DU3 will be, but I have to make

a comment. I have been on DU for a long time, and have a long memory. When ads started appearing on DU we were told that they would bring in income and hopefully do away with donations at all. So the site has done well and made good money from these ads, and we are going from donations to subscriptions. I am very lucky. Some very generous people make sure I have stars, and, if it doesn't happen, I just don't have one. I have to say not having one makes me feel like a beggar and hurts my dignity; but, cost of living has certainly not kept up with social security. Every year my money covers less and less. I do have a suggestion, but it will cost money. I believe an ombudsman should be hired to help people navigate this new site and also to keep a list of people who need stars. If there are not enough donations, I also propose that some of the increased profits from larger income go toward making sure that DU has no second class citizens. This is not a situation that should arise on a democratic forum, certainly not our precious DU. With the generosity of the posters on this board, that will probably cost very little, and our increased income from subscriptions and ads should cover the cost of this employee, who could do this part time and could be called the DU Angel and should, of course, be a woman. It's about time we had some feminine input. Also, I really need that ombudsman (woman) as I cannot seem to get on DU3.

[madrchsod]

62. the price of admission is worth keeping me sane......

[SoapBox]

63. I just hope...that the site doesn't get all "fancy pants and stuff".

I loved Think Progress and then they just made it hard to join/post (no, I do not do Facebook
and I have no intention). Other sites are laid out weird and it's hard to follow stuff. I got banned
from Huffington Post because I seemed "to have a thing about the Right Wing" (duh!)...

so, I really, really like DU. I'm gonna keep my fingers crossed that you folks do the correct thing
and not the "Right" thing.

Oh ya...making my first little donation, since I returned to work!

[LiberalFighter]

236. I like Think Progress too

and don't like their posting method. Even though it appears that one can post using another signin other than FaceBook it forces FaceBook to be the signin method. I EFN HATE FaceBook.

[Deep13]

64. So if we want to continue as we always have, it's $3.50/mo.

Whereas now it's whatever amount to by a star for a year, you will soon require a paid subscription at a set minimum amount.

I will have to decide if that is really worth it to me.

[boston bean]

67. If you want to pay monthly it's $5/month.

You have to agree to a re-newing yearly subscription to get the $3.50/month, which you will have to pay upfront each year.

At least that is my understanding from Skinner's posts.

[glinda]

168. What do you mean "re-newing yearly subscription". What is that? I don't get this at all.

I mean, it is 40 s0me dollars plus $3 additional per month??????? Or can we pay just for the whole year and how much is it? I have no job really to speak of and we have one income and are seniors so.......crap.
I need clarity on this in plain english.

[uppityperson]

170. If you pay yearly, it is $42. If you cannot afford that, you can instead pay $5/month

[glinda]

183. Ohhhhhhh. I get it now! So when is the best time to pay this? Now or

later in the year? I actually sold something and could pay it now and get it over with. I just don't want additional monthly charges or I will freak. Cannot afford much of anything.

[uppityperson]

184. Your current donation will be good for 1 yr from whenever it was. Look under Options

there is a place to check your donation status. I'd wait until my time was up, unless you want to pay now and have an overlap.

[glinda]

312. Thanks!

[Deep13]

349. right, instead of making a $10 donation and having a star all year. nt

[defendandprotect]

465. Actually, not having a STAR may be the way for all of us to go -- ???

Kind of an OCCUPY STAR-LESS DU -- ???

[Vanje]

569. But those with stars

will moderate what we, the starless publish here.

[rug]

65. $3.50 a month?

Hmmm.

I have to have a little talk with my cat.

[woo me with science]

227. No, $5 a month. nt

[LiberalFighter]

237. Going to pimp out your cat?

[shraby]

68. Would you have a senior citizens discount please?

We haven't had a raise in a couple of years, but the insurance companies, local property taxes, groceries, and gas all have.

[fadedrose]

109. Agree....nt

[Auntie Bush]

367. Now that's what I call a good idea! Senior citzen discount.

How about a little more for senior Citizen on fixed income?

I'll probably get flamed for this suggestion. How about a free star for those with a certain minimum wage...proved by a copy of our tax return with all private information blacked out?

To be fair unemployed and truly poor people shouldn't have limited access.

[Hutzpa]

69. What will happen to tombstone

because the only disadvantage I can see from this concept is that some folks
might see this as a way to hold on to their membership even when they're being
disruptive or some might even think this gives them the power to dictate who
gets tombstone.

Would like to hear your explanation on that, thanks.

[tavalon]

187. Why would this change tombstone?

I'm confused. People get tombstoned for severe infractions of the rules. Tombstoned, whether they have a star or not. One of the people I gave a star to got tombstoned that year.

[fadedrose]

70. Will any forums be discontinued in 2012?

I spend a lot of time in "Books: Fiction"....

Without it, I don't think I want to belong anymore... for $42.00 or for free....

I like the $10 quarterly that we've been pretty much paying all along...I missed one quarter I think... You could raise it to $10.50...

$3.50 seems like a pain the back, and all at once $42.50 is too much, so is $5.00/month... Whatever, quarterly payments should be permitted...

[LiberalFighter]

238. I would prefer quarterly payments too.

[intheflow]

387. Do a DU google search on "DU3".

As I recall, the groups will be rearranged a bit, some groups may be combined and others deleted, but only groups with low member participation will be deleted. If fiction is an active group, it should remain.

[CreekDog]

71. the ads are so graphic that people may have to pay in order to read DU at work

because it doesn't appear DU uses any discretion in what ads are allowed to display here.

i haven't noticed this on any other political/news sites i read.

and while not offensive, last week there was an ad for Herman Cain, paid for by Friends of Herman Cain and linking to a website soliciting donations for him. (no, it was not the Cain debunking site).

(this is constructive criticism)

[MADem]

92. If you mention Herman Cain in a thread, he pops up in an ad

If you mention Ann Coulter, up she pops! If you mention sex toys, you'll see them too!

It's some kind of ad program that picks out key phrases -- like they have on Facebook, too. It's kind of funny; Herman is spending money to have his ad put on a place where it is "point and laugh" time for him! Don't get annoyed about it, enjoy the irony!

[CreekDog]

98. *I* didn't mention anything

in fact, i didn't post in the thread i was referring to.

and the sex toys were on the main page. i don't find them offensive, but not everybody's bosses will be so open minded.

[MADem]

133. I meant the generic "you"--not YOU, personally.

If any person mentions Herman Cain in a thread, his ad will pop up.

If any person mentions Ann Coulter, her book ads will pop up.

If any person (and the purple dildos are a running joke here) mentions sex toys, up comes that big plastic toy.

You're lucky to be able to surf at work--some IT shops monitor any "non-work" surfing!

Odds are, though, even if you have the star and YOU (and I mean you personally this time) don't see the ads, when your IT shop checks your sites--if they do--to see what you were looking at, they'll see them, especially if they are going just by the address of the page--see, they don't have access to your password, and without your password, they won't be able to block the ads.

[stockholmer]

355. eeeek, Herman Cain, Ann Coulter, and sex toys all in the same subject! now I will have nightmares

:scared:

[dixiegrrrrl]

297. Bear in mind, DU gets paid when you click on the ads.

Just click...it does not mean you have to buy/support whatever the ad sells. So DU can make money off of Herman Cain!!!!
I think that is great and I go out of my way to click on "the opposition" viewpoint ads.

[cyberpj]

335. THAT is an EXCELLENT POINT. Thank you. nt

[A HERETIC I AM]

73. Dooby dooby doo.

Nothing. I just wanted to see my donor message.


(Glad this thing is so successful, btw)

OK..there is one thing. I suggest keeping SOMETHING like rec/unrec on DU3 just because I enjoy seeing twisted underwear!

:evilgrin:

[s-cubed]

74. Thanks for all you've done over the years. n/t

[TygrBright]

76. Hey, guys, here's an idea:

Some of us can afford to pay more than $3.50 or $5 a month. Some can't afford to pay even that much.

Would it be possible to set up some kind of "anonymous angels" match program, so that people who wish to support, but can't afford it, can let their wishes be known, and people who CAN afford to pay more can anonymously contribute in their names, as it were? The "angels" can either designate particular individuals who'd like to join but can't afford it, or just contribute and leave it up to you guys to assign stars.

thoughtfully,
Bright

[boston bean]

80. Seems as though more money is brought in by the ADS, so I assume the more people that

are forced to see them, the better.

I might be wrong, but that is my take on this from the information provided in this thread by Skinner.

It's all about maximizing the $$. They don't need the small donors, they need the small donors to see ads and click on ads.

It's the American way!

[TygrBright]

137. Yanno, since you can set your browser to not see ads at all...

...independent of this website (or any website, for that matter)--

--And since it was EarlG who told me how to do it (install the AdBlocker add-on to my Firefox browser)--

--I'm not sure that it's that big a deal to them.

But, whatever...

wearily,
Bright

[boston bean]

141. Skinner just told us in this thread how much the ADS revenue has contributed to this site.

I don't think it's minimal.

It's all about maximization. There are other perks in having a star as well.

Never mind that just having the STAR next to your name gives you more credibility and standing at DU.

[defendandprotect]

466. Indeed, Skinner has told us how profitable the website is -- !!

That's why they need the substantial increase --


:evilgrin:

[arikara]

257. Well I sure the hell never click on ads

if a site is too annoying and my ad blockers aren't effective I leave. I detest popups and all that other flashing crap.

[EarlG]

130. We have had discussions about doing something like this

While it won't be available immediately, I think we will do it -- or something similar -- once we get settled into the new software.

[tavalon]

192. That would be fantastic!

I would be happy to donate to subsidize others. And I don't think I would be the only one!

It fits well with my socialist sensibilities.

[dixiegrrrrl]

298. REally an important idea to consider.

Think: what would OWS attitude be about that?

There has gotta be a win-win way to meet member's needs and keep DU funded, yes?

[The Doctor.]

162. Bright indeed.

The logistics are way fuzzy though.

[tavalon]

189. I like that idea!

[juajen]

578. Hey, I just suggested that and I had not read your post, honest. Even called it angel amd

asked that person be female. I like that we are thinking alike.

[donco]

78. I’ve donated most fund drives;

don’t know if the yearly total is above the $3.50 per month level or not. Hope that we can sit up some sort of slush fund for those that cant afford it.

[ChiciB1]

82. Just So I Understand This Correctly. Currently I Don't Get The Ads Because

I'm paid to a certain time. When this changes, does THAT time get wiped out and then I HAVE to pay $42 for the next year? Through my credit card?

Or will I get a notice that my "time" has run out? I'm just a little confused. I DON'T want ads popping up, but I've only paid about $35 in the past, not on a monthly basis just a one time contribution.

I'm going to have to make a decision I guess. I have enjoyed having access to so much here, but money is tight for so many people. Regardless would like answers to my questions.

Thanks

[The Doctor.]

83. Damn Capitalists!

Good model. I hope the numbers looked real good after the crunch.

I just looked at NYC_SKP's link. Can you believe those socialists looking for handouts?


Bwhaaahahahhhahahaaahahaha*(10³).


I also love how RimJob's site hasn't even dusted off 1993, let alone http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x691720#top">made an attempt to upgrade.

[Shining Jack]

87. Please, please....

Don't take off purple dildos ads!!! Any other colors are wrong BTW. :P

[Old and In the Way]

89. DU is the only website I subscribe to....I'm happy with my current arrangement.

I get a lot of value for the money I spend. LBN is the best site on the 'net to get news as it happens. I'm glad you are able to move on from the quarterly fundraising. You guys deserve the success you've created.

[GirlinContempt]

535. Everyone who posts here has contributed to this success

Without the throngs of people searching the Internets and blogs for news stories and topics, without all of us adding content and discussing and all of that, the ads would be worthless, this place would be worthless. It's a combined effort, and to people who have been around forever, this feels like a total f.u. We all contributed, and we all didn't mind helping each other out, helping the owners of the site, contributing what we could when we could, because it was all of us together. Now, it's becoming a business. Which is, of course, the prerogative of the site owners. It's also the prerogative of the community members who add their value to take it to a new community, rather than a business. (By using the word business, I'm not suggesting that people had a problem with the site owners/admins making money to support themselves from the site. I am referring to it being run as a for-profit system that doesn't seem to acknowledge the contributions of everyone. Which has been slowly happening for a long time, this just seems to be the solidification of the piss-filled jello)

[JDPriestly]

90. So basically, with DU3, instead of paying what we feel we can afford

once a year, we will be charged at least $42.00 per year to maintain the same membership privileges we now have.

So you will be instituting a minimum donation of $42.00 per year -- upping the price for a lot of people once you begin DU3.

Why hide the ball? Why not tell DUers what you are actually planning to do in simple, straightforward language?

#3.50 per month, my eye.

[glinda]

171. So it is just $42 oneX for the year? Do I have that right?

[uppityperson]

182. Yes. A one time payment of $42/yr or monthly $5/month payments.

[JDPriestly]

212. That is how I understand it.

I would like to see a special price offered for couples and family members.

[KamaAina]

91. I'm ALREADY starting to see Facebook chatter about this

and it's not positive. :(

[Mojambo]

93. Glad for your success, but 42 bucks a year will probably price me out.

It's cool though.

[mvd]

242. Me, too

I can't afford close to that right now. If it was just the ads, I wouldn't mind being a free of charge member, but we'll have to see what else we miss out on. I would pay if I could since I like this site, but I suspect many are in my position.

[Mojambo]

249. I could easily do without the search function

But I've come to rely on the MyDU and the ability to track replies.

We'll see how it goes.

[mvd]

250. Personally, I use search a lot

I'd really miss it. We do have to see how it goes, I guess. :hi:

[cyberpj]

343. I use search to check for duplicates before posting BUT - they're not listed in order of date posted

so it's usually useless unless I want to go through all the results --and I don't.

[cyberpj]

344. Hey! I just did a search and they appear to now be in dated order. Cool! nt

[inna]

94. $42/$60 a year is actually very high; it is NOT "as little as" for most people

[in_cog_ni_to]

115. You don't HAVE to donate anything if you can't afford it, but you can still post

and participate on the forum. I haven't donated to DU since the last election and everything works fine, I have zero ads in my face (Thanks to some nifty software) and I don't feel like I'm really missing anything as far as "functions" go. It's not like you're obligated to dish out $3.50 a month/$42.00 a year OR $5.00 a month. No one is telling you it's a required fee to post here.

[boston bean]

118. If it wasn't worth it to have a STAR, no one would buy one. This

separates people into categories. The one's who can afford it, the others who can't.

And to make it worse, people who could have helped others previously probably will be less likely to. as their cost for a full year up front will make them unlikely to be able to help another Duer out. That is if you can even donate to others. That is not clear at this point.

[sarcasmo]

125. +1

[in_cog_ni_to]

129. Well, all I can say is...

I don't miss my star at all. I use to be a donor and the difference in function is minimal. That may change with the new DU3, but right now, it's not a big deal.

I hear ya on not being able to help non-donors...that will be more difficult at $42 annually or $5 a month.

[Autumn]

222. Stars on thars

for some reason Sneeches come to mind. In and out of the machine.:rofl: :rofl: I don't know why

[seaglass]

324. I disagree. I have been on DU since 2001 and have only bought stars 2X.

I bought out of guilt (and having some extra money) because I am here every single day.

There are people already who get donated stars - how can you tell who bought one and who was donated one? Do you separate those with and without stars into categories now? How do you know who can't afford one and who doesn't want to pay for one?

[Patiod]

308. People are making it sound as if they will have to leave w/o membership

No one will have to leave - they'll just see ads (although it may be more difficult to look at DU at work with the bizarrely graphic ads). This new set-up allows access to groups, so no one will be forced to leave because they don't have access to groups.

I really don't understand all the outrage, and I'll be one of those who may not be able to maintain a star all the time, depending how freelancing goes. So I'll look at ads. And when money comes in, some will go to DU and I won't look at ads.

[aquart]

340. Animated ads mean I can' t read anything on the page.

The distraction is too intense. I have had to block people for no other reason than their insistence on animated icons and screen gimmicks.

[jeff47]

373. Firefox + adblock + noscript

No ads...of course that means less money for DU.

[defendandprotect]

473. You don't understand the "outrage" ... ? Have you noticed OWS ... or any posts here re health care

costs -- illnesses -- unemployment?

Did you actually read what Skinner said about how the administration is THRIVING -- !!????

Why would this then be a time to seek more profits on the backs of members when the ads

are paying so wonderfully well?

Do you somehow miss the greed involved in this?



Meanwhile, going starless means that you don't have privileges -- not sure all that means

but some say no GD and no LBN. Not sure.


BUT WHAT IT DOES MEAN IS A CLASS STRUCTURE WHEN THE CONTRIBUTIONS ARE TAKEN OFF OFA

VOLUNTARY BASIS AND ONTO A DEMAND BASIS!!


If it's not outright greed -- it's complete insensitivity to what's going on in America!!


Wow!!

[idiotgardener]

508. "demand basis"?

No one is forcing you to contribute at all. And you will be able to post in more areas. Non-donors will have MORE than before.

This is not healthcare. If people who could not afford healthcare had to view ads in order to get it, that would be an outrage.

A private company changing its income structure as it sees fit and still allowing EVERYONE to join and participate for free is not nearly the same thing.

[defendandprotect]

512. Contributions have been voluntary -- these are mandatory contributions ... or no star ....

You're also denying the GREED involved here -- Skinner has just finished telling you

how well they are doing due to the ads -- !!

Website is alleged to be worth $14 million --

and nothing about that disturbs you?

ROFL


Keep in mind, as well, that this is a political website dependent upon posters --

If the political climate changes, so could the numbers actually posting here.

I'd say OWS is quite a change in the political climate -- and wouldn't want to

see DU/Skinner on the wrong side of it!

[idiotgardener]

515. There are no "mandatory contributions"

How do you see them as mandatory??

The site may be worth $14 million, but they are not selling it. They are running it, which is a JOB and incurs costs. With all the talk about how hard it is to make decent money these days, why would I begrudge anyone who started their own business and is making it work?

They say they are doing well due to the ads and therefore have decided to stop asking for money. This to you is greed??

[defendandprotect]

528. A star previously cost $5 a year -- monthly dues are now $3.50 -- or no star ....

If anyone wants to purchase a star for anyone now for a year it will cost

$42 -

Now I'm repeating that for you cause you sound like you don't understand the change.


Again -- it's an increase from $5 to $42 --

The average yearly contribution according to Skinner was $10-$15 --

The average yearly contribution now being requested is $42 --


Again -- this isn't progress -- it's GREED.

And, quite startling at a time when we have OWS going -- and so many stories of posters

who are living in actual poverty -- and so many suffering illnesses -- and being shccked

with unaffordable health care costs!


Again -- a political website is dependent upon its posters -- its numbers.

Political times change -- and this very insensitive move by Skinner suggests that

he's out of touch with what OWS is truly about and the times we are in.

Basically, OWS is signaling the end of BOTH parties.

And Obama has pretty much brought that upon himself and the party with his corporate/

Wall Street agenda.

Obama is pro-Wall Street -- OWS is anti-Wall Street -- figure it out.

[Shining Jack]

526. [phone]! n/t

[GirlinContempt]

536. As stated somewhere else, reposted for your benifit:

" I think part of the outrage (for those who can't understand it) is that the sites true popularity is a function of the posters. Without people watching for new stories, scouring blogs, engaging in these conversations, doing research, DU would be nothing, and the ads would be worth nothing, and as long as we were all in it together that didn't really matter so much. But now that it's being treated like a business, and people feel like they're losing out on services they helped (in a very real way both financially and through their posting) create, yeah there is some anger. Because without everyone it never would have happened, and it feels like a slap in the face to those who donated as much as they could, posted, researched, debated, engaged and built that place on their words." -A.M.

[woo me with science]

145. It is very high. nt

[golddigger]

304. Yeah, this kind of has a netflex feel to it.

[Taverner]

95. You gots money.

And now I gots it...

[Inchworm]

99. secret video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ5TajZYW6Y

:shrug:

[nolabels]

333. Lol, that alone could be worth the forty-two bucks

It seems that quitting DU might even be harder than giving up that nicotine habit that secretly comes with the smokes :smoke:

[MisterP]

100. if you have too much money, that's why there's this

store locator

[HomerRamone]

101. I thought *this* was the coming progressive trend:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay_what_you_want

[Javaman]

339. Shhhh, that's only for progressives...

not Democratic boards.

[Tx4obama]

102. I think DU should continue to do the current kind of fundraisers y'all are doing now

so that us unemployed folks don't get screwed over and have to see the ads just because we don't have the full $45 to donate every year.

Allowing everyone to pay 'what they can' would make the total number of donors larger, which would lower the cost on those of us less fortunate instead of just the folks with enough expendable income getting all the benefits.

I wish I had never clicked on this thread.
Very sad and depressing news.

:(

[boston bean]

105. And you get a break if you can afford $42 upfront and promise to renew every year.

Those who have less money have to pay more. Their rate will be $5/month, $60/year.

Just doesn't seem very progressive, does it?

[KoKo]

113. Terrible idea. So many folks are in hardship and you say you are making enough money on the ads

yet you set this $42.00 or $60.00 charge to be a member. I'm a donor and I still see ads...so I don't get what you say about being a donor and having a star will block ads.

Anyway, this is a terrible idea. But, if you just want paid folks you will have plenty who will sign up. But, you will lose many voices who are strong and informed and make this site a great place to go...but they just don't have the money to pay at such a high price.

Good luck to you. This site will be come for the 1% and not the 98%. Great Timing!...NOT. :-(

[boston bean]

114. I think you meant to post to Skinner, right?? Cause I totally get what you're saying. nt

[KoKo]

117. Yes...sorry about that. I was reading in line...and didn't realize...

I'll try to fix.

[boston bean]

119. no worries. I thought you were! LOL.

[sarcasmo]

126. +1

[defendandprotect]

472. k/r --

Kind of ignores what's going on in the world -- OWS and all of that -- !!!


:evilgrin:

[truedelphi]

435. The real cost to anyone attempting to pay X amount each month is

The Damn NSF fees.

The banks love to process subscription fees on the one day of the month that your bank balance hovers at zero.

After a radio subscription cost us $ 200 bucks in NSF fees, our household no longer subscribes to anything.

And a $ 42 fee annually is too much for my household right now.

[defendandprotect]

474. Going "STAR-LESS" may be the highest symbol of democracy come DU3 -- ??? :evilgrin:

And note -- no moderators -- but "hosts" will only be those with stars --

i.e., wealthier members!!


This is as ironic and inane as the "New New Rules" fiasco -- !!

[truedelphi]

493. How will a "host" be different than a moderator?

The words to Springstein's "One step forward, two steps back" have been ringing in my ears. Silly little ear worm.

Same song started playing in my brain back when it was announced that the un'rec feature would be deployed.

[defendandprotect]

511. Skinner didn't give specifics, afaik, but no more moderators -- but "hosts" ....

and they will only be STARRED-MEMBERS - !!

Is there a song about GREED ... ? 'Cause that's the theme that's playing in my

head as I look at this thread!



:hi:

[truedelphi]

513. Hmm Greed, this one somehwat applies, and it is a great song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpbbuaIA3Ds

And then there is the idea that "host" sounds so Borg-ian. (I mean, not that I fear the Borg, cuz I do have a bunch of lithium crystals on hand.)

[defendandprotect]

530. "Money" -- "Keep your hands off my stack" --

Money
Get away
You get a good job with good pay and you're okay

Money
It's a gas
Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash
New car, caviar, four star daydream
Think I'll buy me a football team

Money
Well, get back
I'm all right Jack
Keep your hands off of my stack

Money
It's a hit
Don't give me that do goody good bullshit
I'm in the high-fidelity first class travelling set
I think I need a Lear jet

Money
It's a crime
Share it fairly
But don't take a slice of my pie

Money
So they say
Is the root of all evil today

[Shining Jack]

527. The best things in life are free

But you can keep 'em for the birds and bees.
Now gimme money (that's what I want)
That's what I want (that's what I want)
That's what I want (that's what I want), oh-yeh,
That's what I want.
:evilgrin:

[defendandprotect]

529. Beatles' song -- "Money" ... ?

http://www.mp3lyrics.org/b/beatles/money/

[raccoon]

295. I second that emotion. nt

[Sugarcoated]

482. You expressed my thoughts

so I'll just say I agree. I wonder if this request will be considered or ignored . . .

[inna]

103. thinking it over, i think this is an absolutely horrible idea, just my 0.5 cents

[glinda]

175. I agree actually. I think fund drives are better.

[KamaAina]

104. Pay to play? Seriously?

How very 1% of you. :sarcasm:

This looks really bad. In the vernacular, "You got some 'splainin' to do, Admins."

[inna]

196. *really* bad, is right. :(

[jeff47]

378. No, it's free to play. it's pay to disable advertisements. (nt)

[Raine]

106. CONGRATS on being so successful!!! nt

:yourock: :applause: :patriot: :thumbsup:

[Tx4obama]

110. Instead of DUers having to pay 'not' to see ads, us DUers should be paid to have to look at them...

Just a thought to ponder :)

[Rabblevox]

111. Renewing my membership now is a no-brainer, I'm uneasy about the new model, though...

Honestly, without exclusive premium content, $42/year is very hard to justify for most folk. I like being a paid member, and knowing I'm doing my small bit to keep the site running. An anonymous member bought me my first star when I was homeless, I've returned the favor anonymously to two others. It felt good, and was affordable. On this model? Not so much.

[abelenkpe]

116. Please not through paypal nt

[dropkickpa]

329. Screw paypal

They have screwed me over for years, won't let me use my account, so I haven't been able to donate through paypal for years. My current star was a gift, but I've got more t-shirts and bumpers stickers (I don't have a car!!) than I know what to do with. There has GOT to be an easier pay method.

[abelenkpe]

428. Same here

Used to be able to donate but paypal has some problem with my address and wont let me use my account either. Use the card directly everywhere else on the internet.

[KoKo]

120. Terrible idea. So many folks are in hardship and you say you are making enough money on the ads

yet you set this $42.00 or $60.00 charge to be a member. I'm a donor and I still see ads...so I don't get what you say about being a donor and having a star will block ads.

Anyway, this is a terrible idea. But, if you just want paid folks you will have plenty who will sign up who have the bucks and want a voice. But, you will also lose so many voices who are strong and informed and who have made this site a great place to go. But, they just don't have the money to pay at such a high price.

Good luck to you. This site will become for the 1% and not the 98%.

Great Timing!...NOT. :-(

[sarcasmo]

128. +1

[defendandprotect]

407. +1 --

[hlthe2b]

420. As "tone-deaf" a decision as I could imagine...

Wow.... just wow.... (sigh)

[defendandprotect]

467. And Democratic Underground website is worth $14 million --- ????????????

[sarcasmo]

121. Self Delete.

[Arkansas Granny]

124. This question may have already been asked and answered, but I

haven't read all the responses. Will we still be able to buy a star for other DUers when these changes take place? There are some on this site who aren't able to donate right now and others who are happy to donate for them.

[uppityperson]

132. I don't get this. You "stop asking for handouts" by charging more?

DU is doing so good that we need to pay more to "remove all of the ads from the site and provide you with access to special functions and features"?

I don't see how this is "stopping asking for handouts" or how this is a positive thing. I guess I'll donate a minimum amount at the end of Dec to get a yr of DU, then stop donating.

I don't see this as positive in any way, or exciting.

[Mimosa]

281. I never particularly minded ads.

The ads have never overwhelmed the design of this site.

[defendandprotect]

468. Reminds me ....

of the fiasco of the "New Rules" put up to replace the old New Rules -- ROFL

The DU website may be worth $14 million --

Skinner is telling us how well they are all doing --

Something really insensitive about all of this -- but humorous in it's own sad way -- !!



:evilgrin:

[Union Scribe]

479. There's certainly a disconnect in those messages

Like you said, they're doing so well they can afford to...charge more. I've never seen anything phrased in such a bizarre manner.

It ain't so bad without a star, though, come join us :P

[RetroLounge]

134. Bad Idea IMHO

I can get everything that I used to get only on DU at Facebook now.

All my liberal friends repost the news there.

And I can get it without the Obama Cheerleaders, the rampant homophobia, the asshats, and the trolls.

Shark - jumped.

RL

[tavalon]

197. While I love the new Facebook site (new to me, at least)

I will never, as long as I'm able, stop supporting this site. They saved my sanity during some really dark political years. I won't forget that. Sometimes I chafe here, because I'm not a Democrat anymore (socialist now becoming an anarchist who is still a socialist) but I still won't stop my donations. And I'm not going to stop starring less fortunate DUers, either.

[FedUpWithIt All]

542. Good to see you RL.

:hi:

[tabasco]

138. Impressive accomplishment.

I wish you had stuck to your original principles, of supporting the Democratic Party.

Of course, you made a good business decision.

[uppityperson]

140. PLEASE Cross post in GD-P and other major forums for people who hang out there, not just GD

[woo me with science]

143. So you are doing great and making money from all your ads, and you respond by

making it more difficult for those who are struggling to participate fully here.

This feels very familiar and very much in line with the new Democratic Party we are growing to know.

[OnyxCollie]

193. It's like "access to health care."

Sure, you can have access. How much money you got?

The Third Way permeates DU.

[woo me with science]

255. Well said. nt

[defendandprotect]

469. +1000% --- "Super Congress" ... "Super Delegates" ... "Super DU" ... !!!

[bluestate10]

146. I look forward to the change. nt

[inna]

164. lol, i bet you do

[MilesColtrane]

231. Yeah, I don't think I'll be missing most of the people who just can't stand...

to scroll past an ad in exchange for access to the best political web site on the internet.

[SidDithers]

292. Abso-fucking-lutely!!...

There's a high correlation between the ones complaining loudest and the ones I'm least likely to miss if they just don't come over to DU3.

Sid

[Vanje]

570. Yes. The riff-raff

The unwashed.
The Underclasses.
Those that don't go away on their own will participate in forums moderated, uhem: HOSTED by the Priveledged class of DUers, Those More Equal!

Sid! , as a Priveledged Star-bearing DU-member, You'll get to censor what poor people write here!

I know . Some people's pants are bulging already, in anticipation!

[Grassy Knoll]

147. I'm Good with this...

"And as always, those who choose not to purchase a star will still be able to post and participate free of charge."
I don't see why a lot are so upset, it's your choice. some just can't read the whole thing.

[boston bean]

150. They can participate some, not fully. Otherwise, why would anyone want a subscription? nt

[jeff47]

377. 1) Turns off ads, 2) They like DU enough to want to help it along.

Paying to disable advertising has worked very well in the past for other message boards.

[Tx4obama]

156. It is only good for the people that can afford $45/60 per year....

for the rest of us we can all 'eat cake' while having to look at all the ADS all over our DU pages.

There are some of us that have been able to buy a star at a reasonable price in order to not see the ads and to have full membership privileges, and now to be told that the price is going WAY UP that is what is 'upsetting' folks.

It has nothing to do with reading comprehension.

[uppityperson]

163. You don't see why a lot are so upset, so you insult us? Thank you very much.

The problem is the manipulative way this is being presented. "Oh, how wonderful! We've been making so much off ads that we don't have to beg for handouts anymore, but are charging you more instead!!!!". I find that insulting. Not straightforward but manipulative.

The price also is going way up, and that is also upsetting. It's our choice indeed, but yes, there are reasons beyond reading comprehension.

[Grassy Knoll]

194. Sorry your upset, and I didn't mean to insult you

or anybody's reading "Comprehension" It just seemed to me after reading
complaints, they missed that part, I did notice Glenn Beckkk dropped his monthly
charge to $4.99 a month , if your looking for an alternative.

[uppityperson]

195. And you did it again. You "didn't mean to insult". Good grief.

:eyes:

[Grassy Knoll]

205. I Call it Sarcasm...

[uppityperson]

208. well bless your little heart

[ScreamingMeemie]

223. Some of us would call it "acting like an ass".

:hi:

[Bluenorthwest]

321. DU does not pay for the labor needed to run the place...

A 'real business' pays employees, it does not use unpaid labor while announcing personal affluence and a price hike. The mods are unpaid labor, all the content here is also unpaid for. A real business pays for that which they sell, and for the labor required to complete the transaction. DU does neither thing.
'We make lots by not paying anyone else, now donate to us one more time, then pay a larger fee to us'.
When you need volunteers to run your business, you are not a real business, and you should not be celebrating your own profits. I'd love to have a business where all the workers were volunteer, and yet I got a pay day grande, that is the Plantation plan. Lots of profit in it too. For the owners, not the workers who do the work.
It is also wildly hypocritical to claim one needs no donations while running one's business on donated labor. Clearly, they need donations, they are asking for a donation in the OP, and they always ask for the donation of long term labor commitments. 'We're too rich to ask for your money, but please work for us for free'.
Not a real business, it is run on donated labor and donated content. If he needs no more donations, he needs to pay his writers and mods, or just admit the whole thing runs on donations and good will.

[intheflow]

376. "Real businesses don't use volunteers." Best. Point. In. Thread.

Non-profits use volunteers but DU is not now, nor has ever been, a non-profit, although it has been running on a non-profit model. The reason the mods were volunteers was that they were devoted to the scrappy little underdog site. Now that DU is obviously prospering, it's time for the admins to pony up and pay the mods.

OTOH, Upton Sinclair noted that "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it." So paying the mods may result in more of an admin echo chamber than is currently the case. (Speaking as a former mod.) Still, given the two options, I'd prefer paid labor to slave labor, which is what the mods will become in essence, if not in spirit. :(

*On edit: Of course, businesses do use volunteer labor in the form of Boards of Trustees. So maybe the moderators should be called Board members now.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

397. Skinner has said several times in DU3 there will be no moderators

They're switching to a self-moderating style. I've no idea how it will work, but they've mentioned it often.

[intheflow]

404. I'm not sure if "more self-moderating" = "no more mods."

I can't see how a site this big could run without any mods whatsoever. Who's going to know when people post porn or are stalking other members? :shrug: Well, I guess we shall see.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

413. "No more all-powerful elite moderators."

I took that to mean no more mods. Which I'll agree could be my mistake of interpretation. I've seen him say similar elsewhere, but this one was the easiest to find. It's a reply to a posters question in the ATA forum. I'll provide it for you to read the statement in context and decide what exactly it may mean for yourself. I agree that I cannot imagine how they will be able to deal with a lot of the situations which arise here w/o mods, but then I also have no idea what's going to be in the coding of the new DU3. :shrug:

Here's a taste of what you're gonna get on DU3:

- Every DU member will be empowered to participate in how the site is run (if they so desire).

- No more all-powerful elite moderators.

- No more deleted posts.

- Total transparency.

- Separation of powers.

- The people who are empowered to take action are also responsible for their actions.

- Members have power to run the groups you participate in, however you see fit. Block out whomever you like. Lock any thread you like. You enforce your own group's mission, not me.

- The emphasis is on stopping disruption, rather than enforcing a long list of arbitrary rules.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=437&topic_id=5009&mesg_id=5021

[intheflow]

415. Very helpful link and discussion!

thank you so much for posting it. I completely missed that thread (never read ATA) and it clarifies a lot of things. Also glad to read in that thread that the non-moderating approach is considered by Admin to be an experiment/work-in-progress, that if it doesn't work, they'd be willing to try going back to moderating a la DU2-style, and that groups can have liaisons to help with group moderation. That sounds... comforting.

Still, it seems like DU will become a madhouse of sorts. If anyone can lock any thread in any group, the hot discussion groups may become all locked/no discussion groups. Weird!!

[defendandprotect]

470. Now left in the hands of wealthy elite members with stars???? :evilgrin:

Here's a taste of what you're gonna get on DU3:

- Every DU member will be empowered to participate in how the site is run (if they so desire).

- No more all-powerful elite moderators.

- No more deleted posts.

- Total transparency.

- Separation of powers.

- The people who are empowered to take action are also responsible for their actions.

- Members have power to run the groups you participate in, however you see fit. Block out whomever you like. Lock any thread you like. You enforce your own group's mission, not me.

- The emphasis is on stopping disruption, rather than enforcing a long list of arbitrary rules.

[uppityperson]

461. He's calling them "hosts". Here's a link and relevant text. Oh, have to own a star also.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=437&topic_id=5068&mesg_id=5074
"For one thing, star members are given more opportunities to help run the site, by serving as hosts in our big forums, by helping to keep the site clear of trolls (to name a couple things)." Skinner

[defendandprotect]

471. Read Hosts ... "Star members" as wealthier members -- !!! ROFL

"Super Delegates" -- "Super Congress" -- "Super DU" ---


:evilgrin:

[intheflow]

487. You've always had to have donated at least once to DU to be a mod.

Per one of the last call for new mods: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/EarlG/183

[woo me with science]

496. Missing the point.

In the past, you could achieve that status with five bucks.

Not so anymore.

[intheflow]

504. I'm not missing the point.

I didn't comment on the cost because that wasn't what the post I answered was specifically about. The post said you had to have a star to be a host/mod. Yeah, well, that mod pre-req hasn't changed. That was my only point. Search the thread elsewhere for my input to see I haven't missed the point before you jump on my points.

[uppityperson]

510. I know that, but that's not what they are calling for for "hosts".

There is a difference between donating once (at minimal cost of $5/yr) to subscribing at $42-60/yr. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.

[intheflow]

519. No worries!

:hi:

[uppityperson]

460. They are calling them "hosts" and only people with stars can be "hosts"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=437&topic_id=5068&mesg_id=5074
For one thing, star members are given more opportunities to help run the site, by serving as hosts in our big forums, by helping to keep the site clear of trolls (to name a couple things).
Skinner

[Vanje]

571. Not "Moderators", but "Hosts"

Priveledged Star-bearing members will be allowed to "host".

[jeff47]

381. Actually, they do pay.

Mods wouldn't be able to do anything without the software. The software development guys get paid.
Mods wouldn't be able to do anything if the site was sued out of existence. The lawyers get paid.
Mods get supervised by the admins. Who get paid.

Mods don't get paid. And having seen both volunteer-moderated and paid-moderated forums, you don't want to go the paid route. You want your mods to like the place enough to volunteer.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

398. Do you think Elad works for M&M's?

Or that EarlG and Skinner's time is of no value? Not to mention that a site such as this would have to have legal advisers. Lawyers do not work cheaply. Then there's hardware cost, utility bills and hosting costs to consider. I'm sure there's other expenses I'm missing. These are the things the owners of this site provide so that we might participate here. Our choice to participate and add content or not is up to us, but I don't see it as volunteering our services to the owners. I see it as they're providing a venue for us to enjoy and we're taking advantage of said venue.

[uppityperson]

486. those who want to be mods (soon to be called "hosts") will need a star, will need to subscribe and

pay. Only those with stars, only those who pay, will have the benefit of working moderating for free.

[CreekDog]

288. yeah, that's definitely another poke in the eye

the poster mistook you for someone who had class.

[hlthe2b]

423. With that post, I have to think you've set a record for getting on people's ignore list.

"not meaning to insult"... yeah, right. :eyes:

[intheflow]

366. Indeed.

It would be one thing if this new pricing system meant they could do away with the ads altogether, but looking for more money in addition to the ads... a bit sketchy, yeah.

[The Doctor.]

151. Wow.

This would be one of the ways I might run an experiment.

Except that it's not an experiment. FWIW, I got no problem with it.

What is the meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything... in $/year?

[tavalon]

152. I guess I'm okay with this

I just sent you a letter yesterday asking you to suspend my monthly contribution but that's only because I'm moving my money to a credit union so the current setup won't work. But as I said in my letter, I fully intend to start it with my new account pronto. Why would I do that (I can't remember when I started my monthly donations but I've never stopped them) when I've left here a number of times because I just couldn't take the overwhelming silliness that happens too much here? Well, two reasons. One, I keep coming back. Two, you guys were here during the dark, dark years and you helped me keep my sanity. I will never, ever stop donating.

Why am I putting pretty much the contents of my email to you on the discussion site? Well, to remind those who can, that if they feel the same as I do, to donate monthly.

[UTUSN]

153. Who knows what it means,but LOVE-YA!1 n/t

[Amaya]

158. bad idea

what a shame.

[harun]

166. Best idea since Qwikster!

[iris27]

235. You win the thread with that one.

:thumbsup: :rofl:

[slay]

267. Ouch

but right on. Guess the site makes more off us through ads now than our $10/year donations do. :shrug:

[tavalon]

268. While I don't personally mind the change,

I must bow to a good quipster, er, Qwikster.

[woo me with science]

497. Touche. nt

[NBachers]

167. Done

[The Wielding Truth]

173. Once established it can only go up. I'm sad that this site is going to

a mandatory membership to keep it simple without the invasive and distracting ads.

[beac]

198. I think you need to lay out specifically what "access to special functions and features" means.

You've said that posting in Groups, up to now a members-only function, will be be available to all-- and that's a GREAT thing. But what won't be available to non-paying DUers?

Before the opportunity to grab one more year for less than $42/60 dollars expires, I think you owe it to everyone to say EXACTLY what membership "access to special functions and features" will mean on DU3.

[OhioChick]

200. Unfortunately, I can't afford this...

I've always given what I could afford, but with my salary dwindling it won't be possible to be a donating member with these new subscription prices. I'll no longer be able to give another member "donor status" anonymously, either.

[tavalon]

201. I just found out my monthly donations stopped in August and I don't know why

Well, that makes it easier on the bank transfer stuff, I'm confused. Did I ask you guys to stop? I don't remember asking you to stop. Did my alter ego contact you guys? Hmmm.

[kstewart33]

202. Fellow DUers, it's time to pay up.

DU is no longer three guys in bathrobes tapping away in the basement.

DU is big, successful, and it needs money to maintain its success and further develop and improve the site.

The more exposure it has, the more people will register and join the community. And that's a very good thing for the DU cause.

The monthly/yearly charge makes sense. A business needs a predictable cash flow so it can plan its growth and development. Unpredictable fund raising drives don't help much in that regard.

Skinner, congratulations.

[Psephos]

214. All hail the new DU sleek corporate animal. Screw the mom n' pop past. Show me the money!

Or did I miss something?

[kstewart33]

316. Yes, unfortunately you missed a lot.

Hard to see how anyone can begrudge the guys who started this site, took all the financial risks in starting and developing the site, and have worked like dogs for this site - how anyone can begrudge them wanted more secure financing to further grow the site which will result in a larger and thus more powerful DU community.

Your typical mom and pop running a tiny business think the same way - they know the huge benefits of a stable cash flow.

Are they corporate animals too?

[Psephos]

385. Yes, who can begrudge them a 900% price increase?

But it's all for a "stable cash flow," no doubt. I've oversimplified, but not much.

This is going to split DU into haves and have-nots, with all the attendant loveliness that goes with such fractures.

Meanwhile, do you actually think that a major price increase for top-tier membership is going to *grow* the site? I don't.

[kstewart33]

402. I don't understand the have and have nots part.

Membership can be bought for $3.50 a month. That's less than the cost of a loaf of bread nowadays.

That comes to 88 cents a week. Who among us old timers (+1,000 posts) can't afford less than a buck a week especially given how much we use the site?

[Marrah_G]

409. It's not 3.50 a month it's 42 bucks for the year

It's 5 dollars a month. You only get the price break if you can afford the 42 bucks at one time and agree to have it auto renew every year. I know it doesn't seem like much. I can get 5 bucks out of my budget, but not 42. I have everything down the the penny budgeted out with some help from the genius that is my mom and it's keeping my head above water and putting away a few dollars every week for an emergency fund.

[kstewart33]

443. Thanks for the clarification.

I'm sorry your budget is so dang tight. I'm older and am lucky to say that I'm financially comfortable.

It's going to be interesting to see how all of this plays out with DU.

What happens if you don't pay the $5? Skinner said that in this case, people can participate and still post. What's missing for those who don't pay?

[Marrah_G]

518. It is what it is. I keep hoping the economy will turn around

I'm really fortunate to have a mom who has helped me so much. The budget we came up with is working well and they gave me an interest free loan on their car when my car died saving me a boatload of money. I think that we need to teach personal finances in school and at home.

[defendandprotect]

481. +1000% ---

Amazing how -- with report by Skinner of excess icing on their cake and how well

they are doing -- so many see putting a mandatory monthy feel on all members as

progress rather than greed!!

Ironic!


Website is possibly worth $14 million!

[Marrah_G]

300. I sorta liked the three guys in the bathrobes

[kstewart33]

319. Me too.

But have you ever noticed that the media never mentions DU? They do note other influential political blogs, but not us.

If DU further develops and grows, DU will gain more influence and recognition and that helps the DU cause.

[rhett o rick]

203. Ok Ok, I am hooked. I have to get my DU fix every day. I'm in. nm

[Astrad]

207. Memberships

You're essentially selling memberships but you're treating it like a subscription. I think you're going to get a lot of push back from people if you start censoring their posts or try to circumscribe what is acceptable content. Paying members are rightly not going to feel comfortable having the site controlling how they participate. The donation model avoided these issues. Hope you've thought this through. But I love the site.

[Chan790]

221. No sir, I don't like it.

[Skinner]

303. Our intent is to censor much less.

And when it happens, it will be completely transparent -- in the vast majority of cases, everyone will be able to see the content of the censored post.

Believe me, I don't like censoring people any more than you like being censored. We have created a completely new system intended to let the community set the standards for acceptable content.

[femrap]

372. So women

can be called pretty much anything and it'll be AOK w/ du3? I already see the standards set by our culture IRL.

Will we still be able to IGNORE assholes? Will my Ignore List be transferred to du3? I've worked hard on that. I have enough assholes IRL.

Can all the women that were banned during the '08 Primary be members if they pay up?

I fucking hate capitalism.

[47of74]

216. I'm gonna miss the neat fund drives...

...congrats, though!

[ScreamingMeemie]

218. Couldn't this have been served by just saying "Instead of a quarterly fund drive,

we're instituting a monthly pay per use fee?" I don't get the flowery language. The fee doesn't bother me, because, at the end of the day it's not my site and I can choose to pay or not pay, but it does bother me when the "masses" are treated as if they are stupid. It's a good money making idea for you. Good luck with it.

[woo me with science]

234. Everyone knows this is how you handle Democrats these days.

What's important is *claiming* that the new policies are for the good of all.
:sarcasm:

[defendandprotect]

533. +1000% ---

and a round of applause for insight and observation not clouded by euphemisms -- !!


:applause: :applause:

[Romulox]

219. Any explanation as to what the need for this new influx of cash is?

I don't have a star as it is, so the issue is moot, I guess.

[walerosco]

220. The rumor is

that Goldman sach, JP Morgan and BP bought skinner's share of DU and now will be a portal to push corporatist policies. Latest report is that Skinner took his honeys and millions from the sale to their new island home south of Cuba. Thats the truth, just dont quote me on it :).

[ChromeFoundry]

226. With all this new prosperity

Will the moderators now become paid employees? Or will this remain as is? I'm most anxious to see if donations play a roll into who gets banned and what gets overlooked.

Time will tell, I guess.

[Liberty Belle]

233. Skinner - I actually WANT to see ads, but don't want them in my messages.

I never got an answer to this from you when I complained before.

Someone here apparently made a donation for me so ads disappeared. Before, I did sometimes click on ads and buy stuff from the advertisers.

But I got upset when I saw ads embedded in messages I wrote, which could imply I endorsed a product. It's wrong to do that to people. I'm a journalist and don't want to endorse ANYTHING. Now I can't see the ads but others can. I don't want ANYONE to see ads embedded in messages that I write. Can you PLEASE give us an option to refuse ads in our own messages?

I second what some others here have said, that it's bothersome that those who can't afford to donate or have professional reasons for not donating to political causes (ie journalists who can't without violating a professional canon of ethics) have more limited access. We are the 99%. Why not continue asking for voluntary donations? You can use it to get rid of those annoying ads in messages.

If you wind up with more donations than you need, you can always make a DU donation to the endorsed Dem presidential campaign, or put up DU billboards, or DU banners on other websites!

[tawadi]

239. This just makes me sad

:-(

[frazzled]

240. Why is this post not pinned in each major forum for everyone to see?

And why are you not saying exactly when this grand switcherooney will be taking place? That will obviously make a difference to people. Thousands probably do not know that this policy post exists. A message to everyone's inbox would be appropriate for such a major change. It seems like you were perhaps leery about making it known clearly to one and all?

Also, this model is wholly non-transparent. Until I see an accounting of revenues and expenditures (what money is coming in and where it's going to), why should I become a subscriber (yes, that's what it is)? This seems wholly incommensurate with the supposed "progressive" values this board is supposed to (but rarely) has.

[woo me with science]

256. Seconding the request for transparency.

You say this change comes because you are doing well, yet you demand an increase by many hundred percent just to retain full access to the site.

If you are asking for a subscription rather than donations, then I think you do owe financial transparency to your subscribers.

Where does your money come from? Who gives you how much, and where does it go?

Does the Democratic Party or do organizations connected to the Democratic Party have any connection to this board, monetary or otherwise?

And how are your funding sources - input and output - changing as we move to DU3?

[nobodyspecial]

264. DU is a business, not a nonprofit.

Do want to buy a concert ticket, but demand the promoters first open the books?

The site owners owe you no such explanation. And, if that's not satisfactory, you are free to set up your own transparent organization. Funny how every group who has tried to branch off from DU has failed.

Do you subscribe to a newspaper or magazine? Do you demand to see their books or who they have financial ties with?

They are not running DU out of the goodness of their hearts. They are a business designed to make a profit.

[woo me with science]

266. Funny, I thought it was a place for Democrats to meet around shared values and goals,

But you're right. It does seem to be increasingly about profit...

...just like the Democratic Party.

[FloridaJudy]

279. Yup. I do.

I won't patronize businesses that are anti-union or have ties to the Koch brothers. That's why I don't much object to the dildo ads, but find the ones for AT&T offensive. Run enough of those ads, and I am out of here. I haven't paid for a star since a large number of my friends were TS'ed for trivial reasons, and information about their private messages was posted publicly, while some of the worst homophobes, trolls and misogynists are still around.

Way to go, Skinner. Using the Netflix business model?

[Bluenorthwest]

310. What other business can you name that does not pay for the

labor required to run the business, nor for the product that people come to the business to see? You are confused in your analogy, the users here are not buyers of concert tickets, the users are the band, and the mods are the show staff, the promoters are wanting all the profit without paying for the cost of the show.
If they are a business, they need to pay their workers. If they are a business, the users will be customers, not supporters, and customers have standards of service, for example, a paying customer will not put up with homophobic staff. Will not do so.
Does that newspaper you speak of use volunteer writers, printers, and delivery people? Or do they pay for the labor that sustains their business?
One can not have it both ways. A business that does not pay for labor is exploitative. It is that simple. To be considered a business, they need to act like a business, pay their workers and respect the customers as customers, not speak down to us as if they were doing us a favor, when anyone pays for a service, they expect service, and paying customers will demand it or leave.
'We are a real business, but we need free labor, free content, and donations'.

[FloridaJudy]

447. And what other business asks you to pay in advance of seeing the product?

We're asked to pony up before DU3 is released. The only business that's made a success of that strategy is Apple, and it based that on previous performance.

I learned my lesson from my father, who continued to buy AMC cars, long after the quality had gone South. No, thanks.

[pipoman]

457. Who's asking for that?

"We're asked to pony up before DU3 is released." Who? Where? You can pay $5 today for a full year. You pay in advance for virtually all news subscriptions. You can pay by the month, don't like it? Don't pay.

[beac]

241. Another question: Will only the first 1000 to donate to the "Last Ever" fund drive

be able to take advantage of the last ever name-your-price-for-a-year deal? I would hope not. I'd like to see you put a deadline (say, next Sunday) on the fund drive instead of stopping it when you reach 1000 donations. Please allow anyone who can afford it to buy stars for themselves and others for at least one more year.

[Skinner]

299. Even after the official fund drive ends, people will still be able to donate.

We plan to launch DU3 in mid-December. So you can donate anytime until then.

[Javaman]

315. "if"? Does that mean you will have fund drives again?

on top of the member fee?

[Skinner]

353. Sorry about that. I was unclear.

I have gone back and changed "if" to "after." I hope that makes more sense.

[dixiegrrrrl]

306. Dupe..I answered same time as Skinner, apparently.

[marlakay]

244. Here is the irony for me...

The people who could afford to buy things...have a star and don't see the ads...the people that can't afford to pay the subscription and see the ads won't be buying anything...

How about this for an idea seniors and or people under a certain income can at least get a discount on a yearly amount.

I guess what I am saying is why should the lower income among us have to look at ads for things they can not afford to buy?

Before we retired 6 yrs ago it wouldn't have mattered at all to me, but then husband loses part time retirement job, food, gas, etc goes up, our car dies and we now have payment for a newer used one...

I like this site but it is a extra for me...I am already buying less food on months new bills come out...

I just wish the people that run this understand how humiliating it is for people who used to have money and now don't feel. I used to donate to a lot of causes and I can't anymore. But around my community I volunteer time and can give extra fruit from my trees.

I will donate this last time and next year if a discount is not there for seniors/low income I will move on...I hate pop up ads.

[a simple pattern]

254. I sure as hell won't be buying Herman Cain

do not want

[jeff47]

383. Just think about all the Republican donor money getting wasted on the ad buy.

I'm sure Cain wouldn't be thrilled to learn he's supporting DU.

[Duer 157099]

245. It will be interesting to see if overall "donations" increase or decrease

I think that many people (and posts here seem to support that) have a reflexive resistance to mandatory payments and work better with voluntary donations. I'd guess that people who have regularly participated in all prior fund drives, including giving stars to others, spend far more than $42/year on DU; and yet, when being told that it now is a required fee, it just seems that many will balk and pay JUST that, not the extra that they've been paying.

We'll see I guess.

[tavalon]

269. Some may

I won't. I just looked back over what I spent on each fund drive, sponsoring 5 people. I will only be able to sponsor 12 people instead of the 20 I used to, but I will do it and if possible, more.

[azul]

247. Just ditch the damn stars.

If people like the site they can donate anonymously and feel that they are supporting it. Giving should be its own reward. Let everybody at everything and do their own blocking and dodging and supporting.
Then, if needed, admins can say something like, "Donations are $x this quarter and costs for the site are $x, we are running a little short. We can cut back some features or sell more ad space or you all can increase your support." And then test what added new features brings in more viewers and support, and which features you can lose or not without ill effects.


Or else, declare the membership support level something less exclusive (more democratic) like $5 or $10/year, and adjust ads and services to produce a site where viewership still increases. But still ditch the stars.

[Major Hogwash]

261. Wow.

And colors, I hope.
You know, for icons next to the names of people who have been posting here for 10 years could have one color, for 7 years another color, for 5 years another color.
Sort of a rainbow coalition of different colored icons.

[byronius]

265. The Magnificent Democratic Underground will live forever.

And I'll gladly pay for it. It's been the most significant force in my life, period. Thank you for everything you've done.

The Actual League Of Super Heroes:

[flpab]

293. thank you

I didn't know I could use paypal and just did. You are my go to source everyday for the truth.

[Enthusiast]

272. Hey, Skinner.

I appreciate your efforts. Honestly.

But. Have you ever heard the old saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."? I fear the "New and Improved" DU will lack some essential element that makes today's DU the place it is.

[Javaman]

314. Uh ho, is that a shark in the tank? And is fonzi strapping on some skis? lol nt

[Enthusiast]

429. Could you explain what you mean, please?

Thanks.

[Javaman]

449. snark.

need me to write you a letter?

damn.

[Leopolds Ghost]

541. He's implying that this could be the moment when DU jumped the shark.

It's a figure of speech.

I.e. the high water mark, the point when the creators did something ill-advised that caused it to never be as good afterwards.

[tavalon]

274. Look what I just got introduced to:

and I introduce it to you, in hopes that you will add it as an option, in the spirit of "we are the ones we were waiting for'. https://www.dwolla.com/default.aspx

This is awesome!

[harmonicon]

276. Ahh.. FR is based in Fresno. Things are more clear to me now. nt.

[Le Taz Hot]

537. Allow me to offer further clarification . . .

FR has members from all over the world, including, I'm sure, from your own burg. Clearer now?

[Mimosa]

280. Members have built D.U. and made it valuable

Members have built Democratic Underground by contributing posts and information. Members also moderate the Democratic Underground forums without being paid.

Democratic Underground is a valuable resource. But it has been the members who have made it what it is.

I've never particularly minded the ads. Except for the dildo ad. :7

I'm sure there are now many who can't afford monthly contributions to D.U. or any other site. I'm sad to say I I had to drop health insurance this year. I make 40-50% less than I did during the early 1990s. :(

[quinnox]

283. Don't like this

I noticed many long time DUers saying the same things I was thinking. This seems to be punishing the lower income people, gives more exclusivity and who knows what else that may go along with that to people who can pay for these new more expensive rates. I've had a bad feeling about the new DU 3 already from tidbits that have come out about it so far and this adds to that foreboding. I fear the "Underground" part of DU might be lost and a more mainstream official Democratic Party board may be in the works.
I will see how it goes when DU 3 goes live but its sounding increasingly like a bad departure from the Democratic Underground that we knew.

[nolabels]

342. It really does seem kind of backwards, doesn't it?

Heck the people who have the extra cash should be the ones who have to surf through (or as some might have it, suffer) with the ads. Like why the world would someone want to advertise to a person who is not in a position purchase the product?

[Syrinx]

287. so you are basically raising the membership fee by sixty fold

That's what I'm hearing. Am I wrong?

[Vanje]

572. sux

[Shining Jack]

291. Goodbye Star !

This sucks donkey balls.

[Jamastiene]

547. Yup. My star expires in a day or two.

Already one of the worst choices ever for a mod for the GLBT forum is in charge over there now. One thing I know personally is how homophobes from NC operate. It's obvious who locks the most posts by GLBT members of DU over there. Anything to shut us up, shut us down, and put us in our places. I guess that's what we get for being abnormal vipers. :eyes:

Now, only those who pay will have any control whatsoever on the site. I predict any GLBT forum on the new DU will be open season for the bulletproof homophobes on this site to verbally bash gays any way they want...same as it ever was. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss, except it costs a lot more now to get bashed. Yipppeeee! NOT!

[sellitman]

294. This reminds me of a Flat Tax

Those that are strapped for cash will be paying what those with money to donate will.

I give what I can afford. I bet I'm not alone.

Not a good choice IMHO

[loudsue]

301. Right here in the middle of the worst depression in 80 years, and

this happens? I'm sick to my stomach.

[femrap]

380. Me, too

:puke:

Certain people should look at the problem of world overpopulation and not add to it nor expect others to pay for it.

From what I've heard of du3 it sounds awful....no Greatest Page? No recs? That saves me lots of time...I come here for news that MSM doesn't cover and usually the DUers point that out via recs.

[golddigger]

307. Kind of feels like we have been "NETFLIX!"

[Javaman]

311. doesn't it though. nt

[GoCubsGo]

327. Actually....

It feels the same as it does when people tell you, "Look, beans, rice and cabbage are good for you. Be happy you have that. You could be starving. Now, go eat your daily bowl of it while I go have my steak." At least that's how it feels when I read the posts that say, "Well, you can still post here for free. You just have to look at ads now." And, for me, it's not about the ads. It's about access to the groups.

[Phentex]

347. I see this being more about the ads...

although I get your point and the point of the person above you.

I see this more about ad revenue. That's where the bigger money comes from. So to keep advertisers, they need more people to SEE the ads. So they raise the fee to discourage people from paying to block them. Then they can tell the advertisers LOOK at all the people who see them. Never mind the adblocker stuff. I don't think the advertisers know which people block them.

[bbgrunt]

354. or Hufpo

[Mira]

309. I pay 10 a month by auto draft. I saw I'm still OK and did not read further.

It looks like the comments will be rather priceless. I will read them later.
Have a very good MondaY!

More when I don't have a pretty and warm day (which I do) in which to get a lot done

M

[Mira]

439. LOL this was not meant for the board- it was

a reply to an email from a DU friend who alerted me to this thread - and instead of replying to the email - I posted it here

:banghead:

[Javaman]

313. nt

[Javaman]

318. So after dropping the bomb shell of required memberships for DU3...

you still keep the donation drive going for the current quarter?

Timing is everything.

Maybe, you should have told us about the membership fees AFTER the donation drive.

[in_cog_ni_to]

356. DU3 Membership is NOT "required." From the OP:

"And as always, those who choose not to purchase a star will still be able to post and participate free of charge."

[boston bean]

357. Yes, we can have paying members that enjoy no adds and other bells and whistles

and price others out. And make it more difficult for others to help them enjoy the full DU experience.

[Javaman]

364. From what I read in Skinners post...

yes, you can still post but only in the groups, right? No GD or PGD.

And for someone such as myself, who spends the majority of my time in GD, this is completely un-affordable.

[onenote]

375. where do you get the idea that posting in GD or PGD will be restricted to paid members?

Here is what Skinner wrote: "And as always, those who choose not to purchase a star will still be able to post and participate free of charge."

Today, anyone can post and participate in GD and PGD without purchasing a star. So the clear import of Skinner's message is that this will continue to be the case under the new system.

How did you come to a contrary conclusion?

[jeff47]

388. It's not sufficiently outrageous unless you leap to a few conclusions.

So there's a whole lot of people leaping to conclusions to justify their outrage.

[jeff47]

386. You have that backwards

Right now, we freeloaders can post in GD, PGD and other top-level forums. We can't post in groups.

DU3 means we freeloaders can post in GD, PGD and other top-level forums. And can post in groups.

The free accounts are getting more than DU currently offers.

[defendandprotect]

406. Well, it's also principle --

that has to be weighed even for those who can afford it --

Think it's a break with "democratic" -- and that brings up a lot

of other questions ---


Like how many actual contributing members are there at $42 a year?

And if fund raising every quarter -- which I think would give the

administration a temeprature reading re how posters are feeling

about the website -- is demeaning ....


Then what about the regular fund raisers for Demcoratic candidates?

Should DU you be doing that -- when allegedly there is no connection

between the website and the Democratic Party -- which btw, is now

under Third Way control!!


Looks more like "Super Delegates" -- "Super Congress" and "Super DU" .... ???

hmmmmmmm.....

[uppityperson]

464. However, only those with stars can be "hosts" (new term for mods)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=437&topic_id=5068&mesg_id=5074
"For one thing, star members are given more opportunities to help run the site, by serving as hosts in our big forums, by helping to keep the site clear of trolls (to name a couple things)." Skinner

[FloridaJudy]

494. That promises to work well.

Which door do we nail our 95 theses to?

[CJCRANE]

394. But if donate now you still get membership *for a whole year* nt

[Lenomsky]

326. Can we see the DU accounts?

I don't post but I read daily.
I have no idea how to navigate DU so read the headlines.
I have no idea what a star buys.

I thought DU was a liberal charity not a business.
I give what I can afford.

[dixiegrrrrl]

396. There is a web site which says DU is worth 14 mil.

"democraticunderground.com is worth $14,730,576.
This makes democraticunderground.com the 24 most valuable site on Stimator.com."

http://stimator.com/

for what the source is worth, anyhow.

[Bluenorthwest]

330. Dude, your mods are all unpaid labor, and that is a hand out

All of the content is given to you for free, another handout. Until you pay for that which attracts eyes and keeps the place running smoothly, you are taking handouts and running off of donations and good will. It is arrogant to take all of that labor and not acknowledge it, to pretend you are a 'real business' when you do not pay your workers for the work they do. Name me another business that takes free labor while patting itself on the back for making a profit.
Aside from the hypocritical self service of the way you present this, I think it is a questionable decision business wise. Know that the place will change greatly. Know that you are a man who charges others a fee while not paying those who allow you do gather that fee. You are not a 'real business' as long as you require unpaid labor. The money you pay yourselves becomes an issue when I become a customer and the only contact I have with you is via unpaid labor. What other 'real business' is made of free content and free labor, while announcing great profit? Name me one.
DU needs to decide what you are. I do not tolerate homophobic crap out of a business where I am a customer, just fyi. No fucking way. And thus, those conservative mods are no longer acceptable, nor are the purges nor are the posters who hound minorities they don't like.
You sound like a club owner who does not pay the band or the bouncer.

[golddigger]

351. I would feel a lot better about this if the "Mods" got payed.

[nxylas]

418. "You are not a 'real business' as long as you require unpaid labor"

I guess somebody wasn't paying attention during Black History Month.

[Bluenorthwest]

424. I intentionally avoided the plantation allusion, compelling as it

is in this context, out of respect for the actual history. I did not think this subject was worthy of that allusion.

[nxylas]

425. Plantations were "real businesses", though

Of course DU is not the same thing, since mod duties are taken on voluntarily.

[OnyxCollie]

506. College football is a real business made of free labor,

while announcing great profit.

I agree with your post, BTW.

[MerryBlooms]

520. So you'd rather just donate to a site that tolerates "homophobic crap"?

You have a star - you're a donor or accepted that donation, and you're benefiting from it... I get you're angry with the funding change, but I'm left with a frown and a raised eyebrow.

We're all here voluntarily... are you not complicit in what you see as unacceptable as the rest of us?

[sunwyn]

336. After 4+ yrs unemployed, it is unlikely I will be able to give any money.

It also means I will still be coming here. Don't post much, been a member since 04. Hopefully things won't change too much.

[Lenomsky]

341. Exactly! You are the 99% and not alone.

If it wasn't for TalkTalk giving me free interweb with my land line I wouldn't even be able to read DU.

$50 isn't that much but when Jobseekers allowance is $100 a week then $50 is a lot of monies.

[Javaman]

345. Right there with you...

I can't afford the new membership. I've been here since '04.

it will change. less people will have a voice. only those who can afford the membership will have a voice.

this membership thing is nothing more than drawing a line in the internet sand between those who can pay to have a voice or those who can't, will be without.

you want a golden ticket? that will be 42 bucks.

[jeff47]

389. I recommend actually reading the announcement before declaring doom and gloom.

Since paying just disables ads. Not paying? Still get to post all you'd like. In fact, you'll be able to post in more places, since free accounts currently can't post in groups.

[Lenomsky]

395. Ads .. what Ads?

I browsed this site before making any donation and have never seen any Ads.

I use Firefox with some Add-ons that block Ads.

[MilesColtrane]

417. That raises the question, what constitutes a "voice" on DU.

I consider the ability to post and to read and respond to other's posts a "voice", and I don't see Skinner planning to do away with that if someone can't come up with 42 bucks. (Which is exactly the same way things are now.)

[dana_b]

438. I'm with you

although it's only been 7 months for me. My star will be gone but so be it.

[sunwyn]

338. After 4+ yrs unemployed, it is unlikely I will be able to give any money.

It also means I will still be coming here because I am addicted. Don't post much, been a member since 04. Hopefully things won't change too much.

[Bryn]

346. Will our avatars disappear if we don't pay?

It happens whenever we lose a star. Just curious.

[BeHereNow]

348. CLASS act! +1,000,000.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :hi:
BHN

[Wait Wut]

352. You're doing it wrong.

You need to pretend you're on the verge of total collapse if we don't keep sending money so you can redecorate your offices or buy new cars. It's not like we'd know any different.

On the other hand, I'm proud of you. So many sites (like that one) do just what I mentioned above. Do us a favor, though. Don't be afraid to let us know when things are tough.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

359. Oh Noooo! Grovelbot is gonna ride off into the sunset!

He'll be so lonely all by himself. And he'll get rusty!

:cry:

[Throckmorton]

365. But, will Grovelbot be unemployed

Carbon or Silcon, we are all people.

[RKP5637]

368. One option could be $12 quarterly, just have that where the donation was for

those that want to pay, but not monthly or yearly.

[Marrah_G]

412. Skinner the quarterly option would be good

And an option where you could donate a 1 quarter star would also be a good idea.

[Throd]

370. Mmmmmmmm, New Coke.

[femrap]

374. LOL!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :yourock:

[hlthe2b]

422. All right, now THAT was funny!

LOL... We "old: folks and appreciate understand the reference. ;)

[Bobbie Jo]

384. IOW... the minimum yearly membership fees are going up.

From $5 or $10 to $42?

Am I interpreting this right?

I've been a donating member since 2006, and my star "ran out" in September. I have been re-thinking the whole deal for a number if reasons. I just want to be clear at this point.

[dixiegrrrrl]

399. If you donate 5 or 10 before Dec. you will be good for 12 months.

My annual donation happened to be last week. Pre DU3 people are grandfathered in until end of their annual date next year.

[Bobbie Jo]

Thank you.

:)

[Lone_Star_Dem]

392. That is the saddest banner I've ever seen. Poor Grovelbot!

What's going to become of our beloved Grovelbot? Are the little Grovelbots even out of college yet? You guys know times are hard and it isn't as if there's a plethora of openings for Grovelbots out there offering decent wages. I did read where the RNC was looking for a way to bump up their funding, but the thought of Grovelbot begging donations for those clowns...it's, well, it's painful to imagine.

Hopefully he's earned enough to afford to retire to a nice community. Even still, the thought of his future consisting of pot luck suppers and shuffleboard games just breaks my heart. :(

[dixiegrrrrl]

405. Maybe we could take up a fund drive for his retirement!

Enough to get a Golden Wrench or something, anyhow.

[Divine Discontent]

411. he's already livin' large... just look at that coat of gold (and that ain't paint, yo!)

Get it now, or one of a million other designs! http://www.zazzle.com/the_party_of_no_has_to_go_gop_republicans_obstruct_bumper_sticker-128224072221438203?rf=238107662556833486

[Lone_Star_Dem]

414. A Golden Wrench. I like that idea!

Something he could gaze upon and remember his time at DU fondly. Or, if he's forced to take the job for the RNC he could use it to knock some sense into the clowns. :P

[MilesColtrane]

419. I won't miss him.

I'll see you in Hell, my little metal buddy.

[InvisibleTouch]

403. Congrats on your success! Nice to know...

...that DU is all grown up now. A well-earned success from small and hopeful beginnings.

[Divine Discontent]

410. someone better check that grovelbot's pockets on the way out... never trust a robot!

Get it now, or one of a million other designs! http://www.zazzle.com/republicans_2012_keeping_millions_out_of_work_bumper_sticker-128659602907896843?rf=238107662556833486

[bobthedrummer]

421. I've been here since 2001-my sole source of income is still SSDI. I've donated and asked others to

donate. I'm glad for the success of DU. I can't donate, and I'm going to ask for help from those members that have found my posts to be of some value (as I have learned so much from others here over the past decade).
I hope to be a member as the changeover happens.
Bob

[mimitabby]

426. a voice of dissent

I have donated to almost every fund raiser you guys have had. I don't give a lot, but i always try to give unless life is so distracting that I miss it.

However, I brindle and chafe against subscriptions. I am at a stage in my life (getting ready to retire) where I want to reduce my spending; so subscriptions are not something i like. i personally prefer the choice of being able to make a donation compared to the leash or chain that continues to take my money whether i want to do it or not.

thanks for letting me have my say.

[EFerrari]

427. Skinner, is there some way to help people who can more easily

give 11 bucks four times a year than all at once a way to say, post 4 payments on account through the year? Pledges are a pain compared to cash payments but that might make a difference to some people.

When you're living so close to the edge, every bit of support is important and appreciated.

[RedCloud]

430. You're gonna take my money or else!

[nc4bo]

432. Looking for donors and recipients!

******Official thread******* here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2307341

Original here, some have offered help already: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2306519

If you can afford to give a little to help out a fellow DUer, please do.

If you can't afford to donate, please post.



:hi:

[Ian David]

433. I figured you were going to retire on all of that RightHaven money. n/t

[Ian David]

434. How about if your monthly fee goes up by $0.05 for every person that has you on ignore? n/t

[Bonobo]

436. You told me in ATA once that the average donation was about $10 or $15, I think.

I had asked you why you did not give a dollar amount for the donation goals instead of giving a number of donations.

It never made sense to me as a business owner.

After all, you need a certain salary. Most of your costs are fixed... so why did you not set a fixed goal for the fundraisers?

It just makes no sense to me.

Still, your answer was that the fundraisers reliably return an average go either $10 or $15 (I forget) per donation and so the amount WAS fairly predictable.

But if that was the average, don't you think it is wrong to more than double the amount that people have been paying?

[defendandprotect]

476. New MANDATORY monthly fee adds up to $42 annually -- a 4-fold increase in average donation--!!!

And burdening members with this after thrilling us with reports of how financially

well off the administration is these days!!

And the DU website may actually be worth $14 million -- !!??

What has to be remembered is a website is quite unique -- and political -- and policitcal

winds can change very quickly. A website is also about its actual posting members.

This is a move very out of sync with what is going on in the nation --

certainly not progress -- more like greed.

[ellisonz]

440. This is a bad idea.

There has got to be a better way to secure more stable funding than a minimum donation for enhanced features. I really don't think most of us would oppose more advertising. We're already bombarded in our daily lives and know how to tune it out.

You should poll this and see what people think overall! Give the people what they want:shrug:

[totodeinhere]

455. In this day and age of ad blocking and popup blocking software web advertising

is not as effective as it used to be. I just tried logging off from DU then refreshing my page and I still saw no ads because I have Adblock enabled. Only after I disabled Adblock did I see ads. So I am not sure how much more advertising would help. I think that most people at DU are web savvy enough to know about ad blocking.

[ellisonz]

456. That may be true...

However, what if you could allow yourself to be advertised to in order to raise money for DU? There's got to be a better way than this proposal. It's not like we're slinging magazines or pizzas here x(

I think they may actually raise less than through the current drives...

[enough]

445. You have been doing a wonderful job all this time. This sounds like a good approach to me.

Like OWS, you have the problem that people want YOU to act exactly in whatever way THEY want. People are so identified with you that they think they should rightfully control what you do. But in fact, you are the actors (that is, the people doing the thing) and you know what you are doing. That has been demonstrated. I admire your abilities, your stamina, your guts.

(From an ancient member, in both senses.)

[NNN0LHI]

502. You got that right

If I have learned nothing else on this site it is a mistake to question Skinners judgement.

Can't argue with success.

And DU has been amazingly successful.

Don

[SidDithers]

503. +1...nt

Sid

[demmiblue]

451. Charging the poor more because they can't pony up in one lump sum...

:puke:

[totodeinhere]

454. Typically in situations like this giving a discount for paying in one lump sum is justified because

it is cheaper to process one lump sum. Processing a smaller monthly payment costs more in the long run.

[Union Scribe]

483. How much does processing a payment cost?

I can't believe that 11 extra payments (the first month of a yearly being excluded as being the same as the lump sum having to be processed) would be $18 in fees. They'd have been losing money from small donations this whole time.

[defendandprotect]

532. +1 --

:puke:

[SwampG8r]

484. but...but...

what about grovelbot?

[akbacchus_BC]

485. I really like DU, no other site compares to this one in terms of

information, humour, etc. Well, the lounge is not the same!

Skinner, most likely you and Earl and Elad thought this through and felt we now have to purchase a subscription. First off, the community spirit will be gone, the valentine's fundraiser was a lot of fun, some of us tried to give hearts to those who didn't get any. That community spirit will be gone, can you please reconsider the valentine's donation.

I always donate at every fundraiser, so for me, a one time donation is not a big deal but at the same time, I donated stars to DUers who did not have any and with this new policy, that will be impossible. Everytime one donates through Paypal, there is a user fee of $1.00. Is it possible for some of us to donate about $50.00 at this fundraiser so at least we could give five DUers stars for next year?

This place was my sanctuary after Bush won a second term and I wanted to know how Americans felt, by luck, I found this website through Raw Story and have been supportive since then in terms of donation!

My question is, can I donate $50.00 as a one time donation and pay the $1.00 fee so that I can give out five stars? I will still pay my yearly contribution that you are asking.

By the way, fellow DUers who cannot pay the yearly subscription are now being penalised if they pay monthly, they will end up paying $60.00 in the end as opposed to the DUers who can make one payment. Is this now a lay-away-plan to be a member of DU?

[steve2470]

488. With all due respect, Skinner, the old method was working just fine

I understand your rationale but I didn't see a need for a change.

I think you need to do another thread, spelling out exactly what people will get for free, for $42 a year and for the $5 per month model. Of course, I'm referring to the new DU3 financing model here.

Then, I would contrast it with the current model, allowing us to make comparisons and make our own judgments of value.

[akbacchus_BC]

489. Waiting to see if you will get a timely response. This new structure

of subscription sucks! Guess DU has gone corporate on us!

[steve2470]

490. The fund drives never bothered me. They were kind of fun.

The "new model" puts more pressure on people to subscribe. I guess if someone wants to be generous, they can contribute the subscription to someone else, but why not the fund drive ? Cutting out the fund drives eliminates all those dollars per year and forces DU to rely only on the ads and subscriptions.

It's Skinner's call of course, but the old method worked fine for me and for most people, it seems.

[akbacchus_BC]

491. I loved the fund drives, it was an opportunity to give another DUer a star,

and the community got together during the Valentine's fund raiser, I loved giving hearts to those who did not have any. Now, with the impending subscription, that community spirit will be lost. That sucks to me, I always donated to each fund raiser and loved the Valentine one!

Guess some of us are not needed anymore! What ever will be will be, but it still sucks. DU will become a class of the haves!

[steve2470]

492. yes, the donating spirit was very nice here ! nt

[Skinner]

498. Someone asked about this in ATA

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=437&topic_id=5068&mesg_id=5074

[uppityperson]

517. So you are changing "mod" to "host" and making this vol position open only to payors?

rather than "must have donated once in your own name" for mods, now they have to pay more in order to volunteer? Am I reading this wrong?

"For one thing, star members are given more opportunities to help run the site, by serving as hosts in our big forums, by helping to keep the site clear of trolls."

[HopeHoops]

500. Thanks for pinning this one, Skinner. It's been a rather frequent question, including from me.

[NeedleCast]

501. This Is The most Unintentionally Hilarious DU Thread Ever

Oh the Huge Manatee of having the choice between paying a small subscription fee for a service and not having to pay a small subscription fee and still getting to make use of the service.

If you feel like this post is mocking you, it probably is.

[Leopolds Ghost]

538. I just donated and have no intention of donating again just to get a 1-year "membership" to avoid

DU's poor placement of ads which was intentially done to "nag" non-donors, a la certain subscription-based blogs.

[SoapBox]

509. I mailed a donation yesterday...

It's not much but I hope it helps.

Thanks to DU for having this available.

[Morning Dew]

522. That monthly charge idea worked so well for Citibank.

[pipi_k]

545. And the reason why it didn't work so well

is because people thought it was outrageous to pay a fee on their own money.

Plus, moving their money to another bank would have been/was a huge pain in the ass.


People aren't being asked to pay a fee on their own money here. And being pissed off and going to some other site is not a huge deal.

So....not really seeing the similarity here.

[Violet_Crumble]

523. I'm glad yr giving the option of one annual payment...

The first time I read it, I misunderstood and thought it was going to be some recurring monthly payment, which I wouldn't do as I don't like doing direct debit things that suck money out of my account when I'm not prepared, and incurring expensive fees from my bank when I slip into overdraft....

From what I've read, people who don't want to or can't afford to pay will have more access and stuff than they do now. I've gone through stages in the past where I've let my star expire, and having ads appear isn't a big deal. Many sites offer a premium service sort of thing, and I think it's unfair to expect that DU shouldn't. One thing that's been annoying over a long period of time for me has been the substandard DU search (not the google one). I know improvements to it could involve money and a lot of work, but if there's a chance in the future of some improvements being made to it, I'd be a happy camper...

[pengillian101]

548. Agreed.

The search function is sub-standard; can't even search something by date.

[bdamomma]

543. going to miss the the

"hearts" is there anyway to just have a fund drive Valentines week??? I'm going to miss my secret admirers!!!!

[Name removed]

546. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rocktivity]

551. If you want us to be "members" as opposed to "donors"

while not requiring payment as a condition of membership, then there's no reason to distinguish between who's paying and who isn't.

I think this will have the best chance of being successful if you no longer issue stars. Let's all be "equals" as members, and really, is it anybody's business who has to look at extra ads and who doesn't?


:headbang:
rocktivity

[IdaBriggs]

552. Skinner, Etc - This is an AWESOME suggestion.

Please notice it - I think rocktivity has ide ntified one of the core issues - the perception of status. Currently stars are a status symbol demonstrating support of this website; now they are going to be (however inadvertently) public displays of discretionary income.

I like the idea of "keep the features / lose the stars." :)

[defendandprotect]

574. +1 -- All equal? That sounds like small "d" democracy -- !!

[Ms. Toad]

576. Fantastic idea!

I am always disturbed by the tiered recognition based on the value of the contribution to the organization (i.e. the most money gets the "higher" status recognition). That kind of recognition ignores that it may cost someone else far more to donate $20 than it costs me to donate $100. If donations/contributions/cost of membership is going to be recognized at all - it would mean far more to recognize it for what it costs the donor/contributor/member. Failing that, not recognizing it at all is more in keeping with the principles I believe in than a using a recipient based viewpoint.

[Politicub]

553. Always feels good to donate to DU, but

it's a little bittersweet this time with it being the last fund drive.

All things change and evolve. On the bright side, the new interface looked great during the preview, and I'm looking forward to using it.

A big thank you to you Skinner and everyone else behind the scenes for all that you do -- now that I think about it, I can't even remember the last time the site was down.

[Hawaii Hiker]

554. will the woo-hoo smiley still be around

:woohoo:

Gotta have the legendary woo-woo man smiley on any new DU site...

[Response]

555. I have adblock (free) so I don't see unwanted ads.

So I don't understand how that can be a benefit of a subscription fee of $42 per year?

Since you are not a non-profit then perhaps part of the new plan, for paying members, should be that a complete itemized list of expenses / revenue / profit be posted from all of DU3s endeavors.

Something like this:

#$ from Subscribers x $42

#$ from advertising

#$ from other sources (outside donations)

[dipsydoodle]

556. Doncha think that little chap riding into the sunset

looks just great. :rofl:

[akbacchus_BC]

557. Absolutely. Wondering if he is planning to start a family - would be

nice to see little grovelbots, LOL!

[dipsydoodle]

558. Everytime I see it I start singing

ELO's Wild west hero : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXmkGi-ERW8 :)

[pipi_k]

573. From a different era....

I always hear Dale and Roy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcYsO890YJY


:7

[defendandprotect]

575. Depends on who's "riding in" ---- which may be more important -- !!