Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

NFL to charge people $200 to stand outside Super Bowl stadium

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU
 
RandySF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 06:22 PM
Original message
NFL to charge people $200 to stand outside Super Bowl stadium
For one-third the price of a regular ticket, NFL fans will be able to stand outside Cowboys Stadium and act like they are attending the Super Bowl XLV. The league announced on Wednesday that tickets to watch the game on large HD video screens on the east side of the stadium will cost $200.

They're calling it the "party plaza," because what's more of a party than spending two bills to go through a security line for the right to sit on a grassy knoll, pay $9 for a beer and watch a game that's freely available on television?

Tickets will first be offered to Cowboys season ticket holders who will have to buy in blocks of four. The $800 will cover four tickets to watch the game, four programs, four scarves and a parking pass. Scarves? For that price, they better be Burberry.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/NFL-to-charge-people-200-to-stand-outside-Super?urn=nfl-309783
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
itsrobert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. What did P.T. Barnum say?
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Heh. They can post "this way to the egress" signs, get 'em to leave...
...and charge 'em again!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Monsoon Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. They'll sell out too, 41 million watched the Pats Jets game on
one network. 31 million watched the President in Tucson on 11.

Says something about priorities doesn't it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GreatCaesarsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. That's what i thought of when i saw the thread.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
28. these days ...
"Vote Republican!"

"Obama's a Muslim"

"Sarah Palin's a viable candidate for President"

Oh, wait ... that isn't Barnum, that's Rupert Murdoch's check-writing pen ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jkirch Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
58. "Every crowd has a silver lining." --PT Barnum
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. No end to the exploitation...
Pro Sports is just out of control....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
former9thward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. Exploitation? Who is forcing anyone to buy tickets?
Anyone can watch this game for free on tv.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. Tell that to the taxpayers that bought their stadiums....
:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
former9thward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. I would be happy to since they voted for the stadium.
They apparently thought it would bring jobs and business to the area. And it has.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. Bull shit. See the post below ...
Edited on Wed Jan-19-11 08:54 PM by hlthe2b
They are almost always built as a result of lying exploitative, conniving, crooks that exploit the greed of their local politicians to manipulate the public into paying for their lavish new stadiums, even where a perfectly functional one already exists. Gotta have a new one with bigger, more lavish and LUCRATIVE sky boxes, after all. Ticket prices are so damned high, that most of those same taxpayers will never get in to see what it is they paid for.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
former9thward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. You can call BS all you want but the voters approved the stadium
in Nov. 2004. I don't believe in public financing of stadiums, just as I don't believe in ANY corporate welfare whether it is for defense companies or ethanol or subsidies for "green" energy or electric cars. It is all welfare and should be ended. However the voters do have a right to vote how they vote and they have a right to attend or sit at home or a bar and watch for free.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. And, they have been and continue to be exploited. End of story.
Edited on Wed Jan-19-11 09:18 PM by hlthe2b
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #43
54. Being a resident of Arlington, you can of course tell me
Being a resident of Arlington, you can of course tell me with both relevance and precision how I'm being exploited, yes?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. there is a book about exactly what money pits the stadiums are, just cannot remember the name.
Edited on Wed Jan-19-11 08:27 PM by niyad
just googled "sports stadiums screwing taxpayers" and got quite a few links.

not sure if this is the book I was thinking about, but it sure covers the issue:

"Field of Schemes: How the Great Stadium Swindle Turns Public Money into Private Profit"

Product Description
"Are you a sports fan distraught over your home team's move to another city? Or someone whose city has just lured a team to your home turf with a brand new stadium? Or maybe you don't follow sports, but as a taxpayer are outraged over cutbacks in school funding and other services."--BOOK JACKET. "Forget about the false tales of "welfare queens" who supposedly rode around in Cadillacs. Field of Schemes introduces you to some real welfare kings."--BOOK JACKET. "A used-car salesman turned baseball owner promises to pay for a new stadium out of his own pocket, if the state government just agrees to move a highway to clear the land. Several backroom deals later, the state is raising a quarter-billion dollars towards the stadium costs - and the team owner is getting his stadium scot-free."--BOOK JACKET. "The billionaire co-founder of Microsoft wants to buy a football team, but only if the state will build him a new stadium first. So he pays the $4 million cost of a referendum - even as his camp spends millions more in advertising to make sure he wins. In exchange, he gets at least $300 million in public money to build his team's new home."--BOOK JACKET. --This text refers to the Paperback edition.. . . .

http://www.amazon.com/Field-Schemes-Stadium-Swindle-Private/dp/1567511392
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. exactly...
The scams perpetrated on a susceptible (or bamboozled) public are incredible by these sports team owners and their "bought and paid for" politicians.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'll let them stand outside of my house for $150.
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
virgogal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. And of course you'll include hot chocolate. :-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #8
27. Sure. I'd even hand out a free beer to everyone who is over 21.
:nuke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. Lame. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
somone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. How much does it cost to sit or lie down?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
virgogal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
6. OMG---this has GOT to be a joke.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RandySF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Nope
Jerry Jones (owner of the Dallas Cowboys) cooked this up so that he can break the record for an NFL crowd. And yes, he wants to count the people standing outside.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
virgogal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
17.  Remember when football was a great game and not a money grubbing business?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Umm.. No?
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #17
33. no
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
59. It was reported yesterday that those standing outside
will not be included in the crowd estimate.

If you got the four friends together at $200 apiece, you could BUY a nice flat-screen TV and at least one case of beer on game day...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
7. RayGun would be so proud.



I heard part of the game will be a cluster suck-up to Saint Runny of RayGun.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
32. Yyyyep-----Reagan tribute scheduled for Super Bowl
Edited on Wed Jan-19-11 08:19 PM by underpants
Several pop-ups on this site. Summary is below.
http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-atlanta/reagan-tribute-scheduled-for-super-bowl

On Sunday, February 6, 2011, the world will turn its eyes to Arlington, TX for Super Bowl XLV, to be held at the Dallas Cowboys' new stadium.

February 6 is also notable for another "cowboy" - this one, an actor-turned-President. February 6, 2011 marks the 100th anniversary of the birth of this nation's 40th President, Ronald Reagan.

Tributes are being planned across the country as well as around the world, even in countries of the former Soviet bloc described famously by Reagan as an "Evil Empire" in 1983, at the height of the Cold War. The fall of the Soviet regime is largely credited to the actions Reagan took, both foreign and domestic, to spur the American economy while forcing the U.S.S.R. and Soviet bloc to destabilize and eventually fall, being rebuilt for the most part into Western-inspired republics.

A tribute is being planned as part of the Super Bowl festivities in Texas, though specific details are largely being kept under wraps at the moment.


Obama says he's going to Super Bowl – if the Chicago Bears are there
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/sc-dc-obama-super-bowl-20110119,0,3443619.story

President Obama tells reporters that If the Chicago Bears defeat the Green Bay Packers and advance to Super Bowl XLV, 'I'm going, no doubt.' It would be the first time a sitting president attends the game.


In 1985, President Reagan did the coin toss for Super Bowl XIX, but from the Oval Office, not Stanford Stadium in California.

Three sitting vice presidents have attended the Super Bowl: Al Gore in 1994, George H.W. Bush in 1982, and Spiro Agnew in 1971.

Before Super Bowl XXXIX in 2005, former presidents Bush and Bill Clinton participated in on-field events to promote tsunami relief efforts. Before Super Bowl XXXVIII a year earlier, Bush handled the coin-toss honors before the game in his hometown of Houston.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
12. Is the NFL charging this - or is Jerry Jones charging this?
There's a reason that stadium is known as Jerryworld or the Temple of Jones.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jimmie Donating Member (163 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
13. Pffft....I got one better
Stubhub has now all the good seats for the PRE-SEASON baseball games and they are going for 2 to 3 times cost.

For PRE-SEASON games. Rediculous.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AsahinaKimi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
14. I guess this allows people to say
"HEY! I went to the SUPERBOWL!" without mentioning they stood the whole time in the "Party Plaza".
Of course, when it comes to producing the TICKET as proof...oopsie!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
npk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
16. I'm surprised the NFL isn't charging people to watch the game at home
What's next a $40 surcharge to watch the game in HD.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
18. I thought this was from The Onion.
Unbelievable.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
former9thward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
20. In Chicago seats for the Green Bay game this weekend
are going for about $1000 a seat on Craigslist. And that is for the privilege of sitting in bitterly cold weather.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. Those are real fans, however.
They won't feel any pain, and they'll enjoy the game as a fan enjoys the game, not like the majority of onlookers who attend the Super Bowl.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
21. $200 is ONE THIRD the price of a regular ticket?
Jeez - I thought we were in a recession. People paying $600 to sit in the cold and watch a bunch of guys run into each other?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. No...not in the cold. Super Bowl is in Dallas this year.
Mostly covered, with a retractable roof for bad weather. But, still too much for a ticket.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #25
36. But really - $600?
That's crazy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. And that's just the face value.
In the secondary market these tickets go for thousands.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. You missed the last part of my post.
:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. No - I'm just so shocked I had to repeat it twice!
:o
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
23. LOL
Figures


They paid for a 3 mile renovation of Interstate 30...


Gotta make it up somewhere.


(Actually the taxpayers paid for mostly all of it)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
24. a fool and his money....some people just like to be close
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lint Head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
29. Football business is ridicules.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TroglodyteScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
34. LOL
The NFL is shameless, and if you'll pay $200 to stand outside the stadium, you deserve the fleecing you're getting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
37. For that price? Fuck that shit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
45. A fool and his/her money are soon parted.
nt

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
46. And I won't be able to leave my house that day
Woo...the life of living near the Stadium....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
joe_sixpack Donating Member (655 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #46
56. If you live that close...
maybe you should try and sell tickets to stand in your driveway. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #56
61. Heh
Edited on Thu Jan-20-11 10:25 PM by tammywammy
I told my boss that stand in my front yard for $100 and I'll push my tv up to the window. :)

I live close enough that the main street outside my subdivision will be backed up with traffic for it. There are still ways to get around. I won't be able to go north of the stadium very easily for a few days, but it can usually be avoided.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
47. Stop supoprting these dicks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Motown_Johnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
48. How else do you pay for a billion dollar stadium when your team sucks?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
49. What, the sports bars will be completely full?
I'll bet some small business owners are pissed if this takes away from their earnings.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
50. Can I pay for a spot outside the parking lot, too?
Just tell me where to send my disposable money.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Shandris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
51. They're targetting tailgaters who would have had access to the game...
...on their iPhones and other internet accessories. There's a mystique, a following, a feeling to being at the celebration for a game that is only played once per year. Say what you like about Pro Sports, this is something you can date back to the Mayans (the celebration, not football, obviously). Now they're forcing people to pay just for participating in the celebration, LET ALONE ATTENDING THE GAME.

This is disgusting, and I truly hope we don't do that in Indianapolis next year.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
52. Hahahahaha! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
53. Friend of mine lives in the Enclaves across the street...
Friend of mine lives in the Enclave Apts. across the street (Randoll Mill) from the stadium. We're watching the big screen from his balcony, in direct line of sight of the projector board. He told me he's making a banner to hang which reads, "All this, and no asshole, redneck drunks to deal with!!!!"

The stadium is directly on the commute to my office, and will be closed for a week for "traffic realignment purposes". Other than that (and the fact that I'll be on the computer rather than watching the game as I'm boycotting the NFL until the animal torturer is gone from the league), it's kinda cool to have it less than a mile from my place.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Hello!
I live off of Abram near Meadowbrook park. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. Hi! Back atcha!
Hi! Back atcha! I live off Bowen and Abrams.

Weird thing... I've had the same group of friends since high school (1984), and we all moved, done the career thing, gotten families, etc., and yet... we're ALL of us back in the Metroplex again,
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. I graduated high school in Arlington
I made my move around the Metroplex (Denton, Flower Mound, Lewisville, etc) and ended up back in Arlington.

I was talking about this article with my boss today. I told him, "hey for $100, you can sit in my lawn and I'll push the tv close to the window." :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. Can I Use Your Bathroom
Or will you be providing a bucket?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. Bucket, I don't actually want other people inside my house
Or you can use the yard next door...the house without a dog. I won't tell.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Mar 13th 2025, 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC