I Have No Problem Whatsoever With Rep. Cohen Linking The GOP To "The Big Lie" Strategy Of Goebbels

[Turborama]

And here's why...

This is what Cohen actually said:

"The non-partisan... bi-partisan Congressional Budget Office says this is going to cost us two hundred and thirty billion dollars in the first decade, and one point two trillion thereafter, and they say, "they can have their own opinion".

Those are facts.

Those are non-partisan facts of people we hired to. give. us. the. truth.

And they don't like the truth so the summarily dismiss it.

They say it's a "Government Takeover of Health Care". A big lie. Just like Goebbels. You say it enough, you repeat the lie, you repeat the lie, you repeat the lie and eventually people believe it.

Like "blood libel". That's the same kind of thing. The Germans said enough about the Jews and the people believed it and you had The Holocaust.

You tell a lie over and over again.

And we've heard it on this floor, "Government Takeover of Health Care".

Politifact, non-partisan, http://www.tampabay.com/features/media/article993724.ece">Pulitzer prize winning 2009 Saint Petersburg Times, said the biggest lie of two thousand and ten was "Government Takeover of Health Care" because there is no "Government Takeover", it's insurance."


(Transcribed by me, video here. 1 minute: 10 seconds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhha3Gwx8z0

And here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x545487#545619

His full speech, 7 minutes: 16 seconds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hUUSAJWy4Q)

Here's what Goebbels actually said about the "Big Lie"...

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
http://thinkexist.com/quotation/-if_you_tell_a_lie_big_enough_and_keep_repeating/345877.html

Here's the Politifact article Cohen was referring to...

PolitiFact's Lie of the Year: 'A government takeover of health care'

In the spring of 2009, a Republican strategist settled on a brilliant and powerful attack line for President Barack Obama's ambitious plan to overhaul America's health insurance system. Frank Luntz, a consultant famous for his phraseology, urged GOP leaders to call it a "government takeover."

"Takeovers are like coups," Luntz wrote in a 28-page memo. "They both lead to dictators and a loss of freedom."

The line stuck. By the time the health care bill was headed toward passage in early 2010, Obama and congressional Democrats had sanded down their program, dropping the "public option" concept that was derided as too much government intrusion. The law passed in March, with new regulations, but no government-run plan.

But as Republicans smelled serious opportunity in the midterm elections, they didn't let facts get in the way of a great punchline. And few in the press challenged their frequent assertion that under Obama, the government was going to take over the health care industry.

Full article that deserves reading in full to get the entire call out: http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2010/dec/16/lie-year-government-takeover-health-care

Reactions to Cohen's statement have been predictable, CNN for example are all over it and http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/rep-steve-cohen-not-backing-down-comparing">nagging him to retract what he said. However, Cohen is standing by what he said. He denies that he is calling Republicans Nazis, as his speech is being described by the M$M, but insists that he categorically stated that the GOP propaganda tactic of repetitively lying is similar to Goebbels' tactic of the 'Big Lie'.

Now, the reason I have no problem with what he said is because http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9018714&mesg_id=9020555">I have been linking the Republican's use of its lie machine (Faux news) to Goebbels' "Big Lie" tactics and the use of the 'Volksempfänger' for http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=417959&mesg_id=418754">several months and challenge anyone to deny the similarities.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8998375&mesg_id=9004449">A Volksempfänger & a 1936 Nazi propaganda poster promoting the use of it

ETA:

Despite John King's Nagging, Rep. Cohen Not Backing Down on Comparing GOP Lies to Goebbels' Propaganda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpuD1-gmYLI

Rep. Steve Cohen: 'I Meant What I Said' About GOPers And Nazis Lying
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4703427

[struggle4progress]

1. Shoah comparisons are insensitive and ill-advised

[Turborama]

2. "The Germans said enough about the Jews and the people believed it and you had The Holocaust." True

Or not?


On edit:

The only reason I can think it's 'ill advised' is because it's one sentence which detracts from what he actually said during http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hUUSAJWy4Q">his 7 minute speech about their lies.

[struggle4progress]

5. That doesn't matter: it's still insensitive beyond imagination to compare

the Rs idiotic political posturing around Health Care to the Nazi industrial-scale mass murders

[Turborama]

7. Here's his defense...

Dem Rep: No apology for saying GOP mendacity is worthy of Goebbels

By Greg Sargent

=snip=

"I said Goebbels lied about the Jews, and that led to the Holocaust," Cohen said. "Not in any way whatsoever was I comparing Republicans to Nazis. I was saying lies are wrong...I dont know who got everybody's panties in a wad over this statement."

Cohen insisted that the invocation of Goebbels was legit, given the larger context: He said that Repubicans had, in fact, repeatedly used a big-lie technique on health care.

"There have been so many lies about the health care bill," Cohen said, citing "death panels," the GOP rejection of the Congressional Budget Office's finding that repealing reform would hike the deficit, and the claim that health reform represents a "government takeover. You can't stop them from saying that lie," Cohen said of the "government takeover" line. "It's their mantra. They go to bed with it. They do Yoga with it."

=snip=

"Lies are being spread, and it's wrong," Cohen said. "Goebbels was the master of political lies...to lie to take health care away from people is despicable."

Full article: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/01/dem_rep_no_apology_for_saying.html

[Hannah Bell]

9. mighty trees from tiny acorns grow. the big lie technique is the acorn that breeds monsters.

to mix the metaphors

[Dappleganger]

27. Why don't you take a trip to the Holocaust museum

and pay special attention to their Third Reich propaganda exhibit. I think you'll change your mind.

[struggle4progress]

28. Thanks: I've been there; I know several Eastern European survivors of the Shoah; and

in the spirit of "never again" I've collected several ugly shelves of diaries, memoirs and other texts related to the topic

Search the archives and you'll find I've posted on the role of propaganda in the Balkan and Rwandan mass murders of the 90s

My point is not that dishonest propaganda is harmless, nor am I unaware of the effects of anti-semitic German propaganda in the 30s and 40s. My point is one ought not trivialize the Shoah with inapt comparisons. I will say further that, beyond being merely insensitive, such comparisons actually cloud our thinking by distracting us from a specific detailed analysis of the modern forms of propaganda and a careful examination of the interests and motives and organizations and persons behind dishonest contemporary political propaganda

[sabrina 1]

37. You realize that this kind of hateful, lying rhetoric was how they got

support for the two brutal wars they are still waging? That to get that support, the same propagandists, rightwing hate radio did their job well demonizing Muslims day after day to the point where we do not even care that over one million of them have been slaughtered and more tortured, imprisoned and maimed for life with babies being born for decades with deformities from our WMDs?

The hate that was and is spewed against Muslims and Arabs will continue, used as a tool to rile Americans up enough to 'nuke Iran' and kill untold numbers, some say maybe ten million if we were to use tactical nukes there as suggested?

Maybe a Nazi comparison is wrong, because the continuing killing and destruction going back several decades of people in foreign countries by this government is actually worse with the potential to cause far more long-lasting harm to millions and millions of human beings way into the future since forever war seems likely with no one seriously trying to stop it.

And we do it all in the name 'national security'. But then isn't that always the excuse for genocide?

I know this I would not want to be a Muslim in this country today, or in my own country if it had any resources the U.S. wants.

I have friends who remember Germany in the thirties. I spoke to one woman recently who was a teenager when the Nazis were rampaging through Europe and she told me that the atmosphere in this country especially the rhetoric from the right, makes her very nervous as it seems so familiar to her.

[elleng]

44. Exactly. Thanks, sabrina.

:thumbsup:

[Dappleganger]

47. I disagree with your opinion

but see where you are coming from. I am sticking by what I said, however. It is a slippery slope and the republican message/Fox News is pushing this agenda using eerily similar messages.

[elleng]

43. What's insensitive is to ignore the lying s.o.b.s, and enable them to continue

their pogroms.

[struggle4progress]

48. ADL: Rep. Steve Cohen's Nazi Analogy "Offensive" and Has No Place in Civil Discourse

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/HolNa_52/5964_52

[elleng]

49. I don't give a d* about what the ADL said.

(and in doing so, he raises the 'blood libel' b.s. again.)

WE CANNOT IGNORE THEIR LIES, and the likely origins of thier methods, PROPAGANDA which was perfected by Goebbels and has victimized MANY, including European Jews, ever since.

Thats life in the big city, folks, and we've got to get off our high horses and say it as we see it, FINALLY. I'm pleased that Cohen and Weiner did it, and pissed at 'professional' Jews at the ADL for dumping on them. SHAME on Alexander Foxman. What's 'offensive' is what repugs have been doing.

[sulphurdunn]

58. When has the discourse in this country

ever been civil? Seriously?

[sulphurdunn]

59. If it looks like a duck,

walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, whatever else it might be besides a duck, it's still a bird. The days of liberal politicians apologizing to rightist liars due to mass media pressure for telling the truth needs to end.

[lise]

3. unbelievable

that you think this kind of rhetoric is okay.

Great. Just great.

[Turborama]

4. Why is it "unbelievable"?

What have I said that you disagree with?

[Shandris]

8. You want to know where and what people are thinking of when they say...

...that both sides need to 'tone down the rhetoric'? Sure, we're not calling for the assassination of conservatives like Limbaugh does to us, BUT IT'S NOT THE EXACT WORDS THAT MATTER TO THE AVERAGE LISTENER. It's the overall inference. And this inferences the Nazi's no less than Glenn Beck does. It doesn't matter WHY, it matters what people PERCEIVE.

[Turborama]

11. This is nothing like Glenn Beck insulting President Obama by calling him a Nazi

That kind of far too common false equivalence is what is wrong with today's political discourse, online and on TV.

[Shandris]

57. To you, and the gentle poster beneath this reply, I would like to...

...point out that in NO WAY do ~I~ maintain that there is an equivalency there. I apologize if that's how it came across. I am saying that invoking the Nazi-Goebbels thing, REGARDLESS OF ITS BASIS IN TRUTH, is only heard BY THE MASSES to be the equivalency. We can protest until we're blue in the face 'But its the truth, its not what Glenn Beck is doing!' and we'd be right...but it's irrelevant that we're right. ALL that matters is how the people, the general populace, PERCEIVE what is said.

It's much like the Law. In the end, what the Law IS is not as important as what 12 people PERCEIVE it to be. Truth, when viewed as a matter of perception, is wholly relative. In fact, this recognition is the VERY PRINCIPLE that Goebbel's principles rely on.

[StarsInHerHair]

12. I strongly disagree with you, what happened to homosexuals, gypsies, and

jews happened because of certain methods, certain techniques that made killing certain people acceptable. Those techniques can be reproduced. That is what the op is saying. Hotel Rwanda anyone? The liars specialize in jerking people around emotionally, they made it unpatriotic to question the president 'in a time of war' TIL THEY DIDN'T. they turned on a dime-hypocrites, we're still at war. This is nothing like beck, this is non-violent and the truth.

[sabrina 1]

15. People are smarter than you are giving them credit for.

There is a huge difference between lies and the truth and I think that most people can tell the difference.

Some day Democrats will stop worrying about what the 'right' thinks about them and do what is right. Beck, Limbaugh, Coulter, Malkin, Hannity, Palin et al would make Goebbels proud, because THEY LIE repeatedly, daily and with the intention of marginalizing and creating an image of democrats that will cause people to view them as 'traitors' and 'commies' and 'enemies of the U.S.' and those lies have resulted in the murder of democrats and the attempted murder of members of the A.C.L.U and the Tides Foundation. It has caused the murder of abortion doctors, it has caused democrats to be threatened with death and I would prefer that it be stopped now before more people are harmed.

Comparing what they do to the world's best known propagandist is NOT the same as them lying about their fellow Americans who happen to hold different political views, because the comparison is the truth. And if they don't like the comparison, then they know what to do.

[Shandris]

56. Would these be the same people who...

...say 'both sides need to tone it down', who think that Democrats raise taxes on them, who think that Republicans are strong on national security, and that Obama is a socialist?

[Pedalpower]

60. Accurate, but Unproductive...

When we hand the Right, and the Media, juicy bits that they can exploit, it DISTRACTS from the truth. The story is not the debate or the law, it's not about this controversy. There's only so much time the media will devote to the healthcare debate, and they would much rather get into this drama.

Yes, he's right. BUT, we could have stressed that Pubelickins lie, without hitting the Nazi hot-button.

Our side needs to get a lot smarter with how we choose to communicate.

[sabrina 1]

14. If something is a historical fact, it bears remembering.

The far right has lied and lied about Liberals and Democrats to the point where there are now lunatics going out on murderous rampages to kill them.

I am more than happy to list cases where this has happened as a result of the propaganda aimed at democrats and liberals in case you are not aware of them.

For nearly two decades now, the far right has demonized democrats. What do you suggest be done about that?

THEIR rhetoric is dangerous and a threat to others as has been proven already. Do you suggest we ask them politely not to call us names anymore?

Repeating these lies every day on every rightwing talk show HAS had an effect. If pointing out that they are using the techniques of one of the world's most reviled propagandists bothers them, then all they have to do is stop.

I think the comparison to Goebbels is very appropriate. The technique of repetitive lies with the intention of demonizing a segment of society on a daily basis certainly does bring to mind the technique recommended by Goebbels.

Cohen is correct not to allow them to force him to back down. The fact that they are reacting so vehemently can only mean they know it is true.

If the shoe fits ~ well, wear it, as the saying goes.

As a democrat I do not appreciate the attacks I have endured from rightwingers for simply having a different political viewpoint, attacks that have included death threats. I have no problem comparing them to Goebbels for instigating these kinds of attacks on people. None whatsoever.

[Turborama]

17. Unfortunately, it appears that some here think we shouldn't stand by Cohen..

...and back him for telling a truth that a lot of us have been saying for ages. (see the constant unrecs, for proof)

I've never had time for anyone who's worried about how the Republicans might react when they are called out in public. That's just pathetic and is exactly the cowardly namby-pamby attitude that has allowed them to get away with it for so long.

[armetisius]

23. I totally agree

What are the differences? Not many that I can see. The only thing is we don't have death camps YET.
The Nazis had Goebbels; the Republicans have Rove. Don't laugh it is a close correlation. In the 1994 Texas gubernatorial race Richards was trashed, in a conservative state, by the suggestion that she was a lesbian for "appointing avowed homosexual activists" (through Sen. Bill Ratliff from East Texas) to a few state commissions and boards. This was furthered by his "push polling" technique which further vilified gays with questions like, "Would you be more or less likely to vote for Governor Richards if you knew her staff is dominated by lesbians?" <http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article2250878.ece> Then expanded this hatred over and over <"The Gay Agenda"> all the time increasing anti-homosexual violence and giving police the feeling that they could do anything they wanted so long as it involved gays. After the eighth time of being giving a field sobriety and breathalyzer test (on the side walk before even reaching the parking area which I always passed--I don't drink alcohol) while leaving a "gay bar" I quit going. However when this resulted in Lawrence v Texas the Repugnacans wheeled out DOMA. His attempts at making Gays the new Jews helped land two presidential elections by scarring the living hell out of the "Religious Right". He used the threat of the "Gay Agenda" much the same as the "Blood Libel" was used to bring the Jews to the gas chambers. Then it was derailing McCain's first attempt with the "out of wedlock interracial child", then Kerry's Swift boat, etc. etc. etc. And on and on and on it goes ad nauseum. For right now it is the poor (and the old on limited income) and their inability to pay for health care or to meet the insurance companies "loan shark" rates combined with anyone of a "liberal ilk". And it is getting violent to the point of death for some. Though there is no way of proving it I would not be surprised to find Rove on the payroll of some Repugnacans "think tank" somewhere advising on who and how to target yet another candidate or group. A lot of this venomous bs flying around the airways smacks of his methods; vilify, denigrate, and (supposedly) discredit those that disagree with their "values".

[sabrina 1]

65. Excellent post. You should turn it into an OP.

I have no doubt that Rove is working hard behind the scenes and we've been given reason to believe that he is behind the witch hunting of Julian Assange in Sweden. He is friends with the Swedish PM it seems and hid in Sweden while avoiding subpoenas for the firing of the U.S. attorneys case.

I am sorry those criminals harassed people like you, but yes, they can definitely be compared to Nazis. Germany didn't happen overnight, it took time.

Over one million Muslims are dead and those deaths were cheered on by these very same people AFTER they demonized them making it possible for the slaughter to happen and be accepted without even a whimper here in this country.

There SHOULD be outrage over that genocide, but there isn't. The reason is that the Rightwing Propaganda Machine, a machine that make Goebbels proud, singled Muslims out as a group and labeled them as 'the enemy'. As if babies and women and old people in Iraq were ever the enemies of this country. That was the Big Lie told over and over again and it would be hard to find anyone who would shed a tear in this country over the tragic deaths of that many human beings. After all, they were the 'other', skillfully marginalized by the Rightwing Noise Machine as effectively as Gays and Gypsies and Jews were marginalized by propaganda in Germany.

[craigmatic]

6. Here's one they've been repeating for years.

Big government baaaad baad baaaa baaa.

[Zoeisright]

10. I have no problem at all with what Cohen said. Here's the difference between that and Palin:

What Representative Cohen said is the TRUTH.

No threats, no violence, no verbal thuggery. Just the truth. If Democrats have a problem with that, then we are NEVER going to get anywhere with repukes. Because they lie constantly. And we let them get away with it.

[calimary]

35. Neither do I.

[krispos42]

13. The Big Lie is a tool that Hitler and his men used.

The Big Lie is, in fact, a very powerful tool, to powerful for anybody who wants control and authority to not use.

It works. And Goebbels was a master at it. Therefore, any time anybody has a piece of shit they want to sell to a nationwide audience, they have to use the strategy of Goebbels.


That "shock your flabby abs into a rock-hard six-pack" belt? The Big Lie, but it sold a lot or merchandise.


The original Hyundai Excel? The Big Lie, but it sold a lot of hatchbacks.


Reefer Madness? The Big Lie, but it sold and continues to sell a lot of expensive pharmaceuticals.


And so on.

Goebbels was a master propagandist. Hitler needed a master propagandist, and hired and promoted Goebbels. You might as well criticize the Army for learning tank warfare from the Germans.

[Tx4obama]

16. K & R n/t

[florida08]

18. absolutely turborama

We seem to be held to a different standard which is how we're marginalized. Remember when the tea party patriots were going to burn Pelosi and Periolli in effigy? Beck actually did it. The rw fringe has become dangerous because of the rhetoric of their rw congressmen and pundits. When the Tucson shootings happen they ran to their mics in an attempt to innoculate themselves from culpability.

We have been losing the information war for years. It's past time to expose what these propagandists do to keep America from truthful dialogue. It's time to ask why the right hates the middle class. Most americans didn't even know they had received a tax cut thanks to the propaganda. I know they hate democrats because they fear if Americans ever finally understand they would be thrown out of office. They fear another FDR who was elected 4 terms.

[Turborama]

20. "Most Americans didn't even know they had received a tax cut" <----- This should not be forgotten

It's very scary how easily they were persuaded that their taxes were going up when in fact the opposite was true.

Interesting you mention FDR, I just saw a video of him calling them out for using The Big Lie, too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gztvtSyTdY

Hat tip to Axrendale who posted it http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4703427&mesg_id=4703489">here earlier.

[florida08]

22. thanks for that wonderful link

as he stated "the stakes are too high to forget".. blaming democrats for the Great Depression..nothing ever changes. Marginalize the middle class by using big falsehoods and repeat them over and over again. Americans have got to get more savvy.

Here's the text..

http://www.hpol.org/fdr/fala/

[Turborama]

34. You're most welcome, I can't take credit for it though

Axrendale is the one who deserves the gratitude: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4703427&mesg_id=4703489 ;-)

Thank you for sharing the transcript. I'm going to make an OP in the Political Videos Forum and that will come in very handy! :yourock:

[Axrendale]

38. You are most welcome.

:)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

19. That is 100% correct. He didn't call them Nazis, and he explained it for the slow on the uptake.

Me, as soon as I saw the transcripts, immediately thought, "Wait a minute, that's not calling people Nazis."

[JimGinPA]

21. K&R

[yodermon]

24. Goebbels didn't say that.

http://www.bytwerk.com/gpa/falsenaziquotations.htm

Hilter, in mein kampf, accused the *Jews* of perpetuating the "big lie".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Lie

[Turborama]

25. According to some blogger

and Wikipedia. OK, Wikipedia also states that he did say it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels

As does the Jewish Virtual Library: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/goebbelslie.html

[yodermon]

26. Funny.

from the wiki page:

In that position, he perfected the Big Lie technique of propaganda<citation needed>, which is based on the principle that a lie, if audacious enough and repeated enough times, will be believed by the masses.

And, the Jewish Virtual Library quote links back to here: http://en.thinkexist.com/quotation/-if_you_tell_a_lie_big_enough_and_keep_repeating/345877.html
which was uploaded by a "blogger" named "The Craven" :rofl: http://en.thinkexist.com/quotes/sent-by/the_craven/


Does no one see the irony in this? "The Big Lie" is actually a big ..
never mind.

[w4rma]

29. "The Big Lie" is actually one of Goebbels' big lies. Hah. (nt)

[madfloridian]

30. Here's a great research page on Nazi Propaganda.

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/ww2era.htm

[Turborama]

32. Thank you!

That's an excellent resource.

I'm always amazed when I come across information goldmines like this online. The amount of time put into the research and translation seems almost unmeasurable.

[madfloridian]

33. The similarities to today's media propaganda are astounding.

Topics may be different, but the lies are still big and ugly.

[Odin2005]

31. The GOP are FASCISTS. That needs to be drilled into people's heads.

[mmonk]

36. Goebbels quotes

Some of the Goebbels' principles of propaganda:

"Propaganda must be planned and executed by only one authority."

"Credibility alone must determine whether propaganda output should be true or false."

"Propaganda must label events and people with distinctive phrases or slogans. "

"Propaganda must facilitate the displacement of aggression by specifying the targets for hatred. "

"Black rather than white propaganda may be employed when the latter is less credible or produces undesirable effects. "

"To be perceived, propaganda must evoke the interest of an audience and must be transmitted through an attention-getting communications medium. "

"Propaganda to the home front must create an optimum anxiety level"



Quotes "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." and "The bigger the lie, the more it will be believed." are widely and incorrectly attributed to Goebbels. It is probable that these are the paraphrases of the Goebbels' text "Churchill's Lie Factory" where he said: "The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous." - Jospeh Goebbels, "Aus Churchills Lügenfabrik," 12. january 1941, Die Zeit ohne Beispiel


http://www.goebbels.info/goebbels-goebbels.htm


However, this source disagrees on the big lie quote:


"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it,
people will eventually come to believe it. The
lie can be maintained only for such time as the
State can shield the people from the political,
economic and/or military consequences of the
lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the
State to use all of its powers to repress dissent,
for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie,
and thus by extension, the truth is the
greatest enemy of the State."

http://www.people.ubr.com/political/by-first-name/j/joseph-goebbels/joseph-goebbels-quotes.aspx

And this one:

http://www.quotesdaddy.com/author/Joseph+Goebbels


And this site compare Goebbels quotes and GWB quotes:

http://bunker.defcode.com/index.php/2004/01/27/more_goebbels_quotes

[Johonny]

39. I argued the samething yesterday

The one argument against using it I heard that I think is true. Calling peoples NAZIs doesn't generally rally the Dem base like it does Republicans. Clearly Rachel isn't pumped up for it. If it doesn't work on your base, then perhaps it isn't a good thing to say.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. 50 of my relatives died at Treblynka

My dad survived by hiding for 18 months.

You'd think I am insulted... alas I am not.

It was ON POINT.

It is time to actually LEARN the lessons and not just get the cooties every time one mentions the horrors of the holocaust.

One of the lessons is that mass propaganda works. And we are seeing it NOW in spades. Saying this, does not mean one is calling GOP members Nazis... but one is calling them for using NAZI TECHNIQUES. They are... and it is time they are called on it.

[elleng]

50. Dear nadin,

:hug:
:thumbsup:

[bluestate10]

52. While I admire you sticking to your view given your family history.

My view is that the Congressman could have delivered his charge against republican untruths more forcefully by using other language and imagery.

[Raksha]

54. No, he could NOT have delivered his charge more forcefully.

The Nazi analogy is appropriate, and it packs a huge emotional wallop when used appropriately. That's exactly why the Repukes are whining about it. For some unknown reason they think pushing people's buttons is their exclusive right and privilege. But they usually do it with lies (the Goebbels technique). Steve Cohen was doing with the truth, which is a lot more powerful. So of course they're howling about it--what else would you expect?

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. No he could not

the reason why it resonated so strongly is because we all get our panties in a wad. Oh and realize something else, Congressman Cohen IS jewish.

[bluestate10]

64. I am fully aware that Congressman Cohen is Jewish.

I still disagree with how he phrased his otherwise brilliant challenge. I disagree with you on how the challenge was worded, but deeply respect your conviction on the issue.

[elleng]

41. He was, right and we're wrong to condemn him for telling this truth.

[bluestate10]

53. The Congressman told the truth from a philosophical perspective.

But the language and imagery that he used blunted the impact of the challenge. I would have loved to see the Congressman rip republicans apart for the obvious untruths that they were using during the debate and even now as they try to cower the Senate, but the words and imagery that were used caused me to be taken aback.

[elleng]

42. REPUGS HAVE USED THE BIG LIE FOR GENERATIONS,

Dems should have called them on it ages ago, and should do more of it, as did Weiner.

A LIE IS A LIE IS A LIE, and there is NO REASON WHATSOEVER TO CODDLE THE REPUG THUGS!

[RagAss]

45. The man makes sense to me.

[DeSwiss]

46. K&R

- Good on ya Turborama. Some people just have a problem with the TRUTH.

[bluestate10]

51. The characterization was poorly considered.

I write this even as I wish the Congressman had made the same philosophical point with different imagery.

[moondust]

55. His mistake was to invoke the Holocaust.

Otherwise no problem with the "Big Lie" comparison.

[arthritisR_US]

61. I have no problem with him either. Call a spade a spade, n/t

[Marnie]

62. PR made of lies is propoganda. The best kown purveyor

of propaganda and PR lies is Goebbels. So the analogy is apt.

Perhaps in 50 years the best known purveyors well be named Karl Rove, Luntz, Beck, Limbaugh, Bush.

Just saying.

[Overseas]

66. K&R ! //nt

[zeos3]

67. KICK