Did anybody else notice that poll on Lawrence..........

[socialist_n_TN]

O'Donnell's show that showed Obama's perceived political leanings? 45% thought he was a liberal. Meh. 40% said "moderate". OK closer. But 11% said he was a CONSERVATIVE! Of course O'Donnell dissed that characterization, but 11%! DAMN! They've GOT to be socialists! :)

That's a BIG number for us VERY lefties. It doesn't take a huge number to drive the debate. All we've got to do is keep it up and we'll gain even MORE because we've got the people's interest at the heart of our agenda. Keep talking boys and girls, I think we're gaining on them! :)

[babylonsister]

1. Maybe he's flummoxing everyone, or pleasing a lot of people, which is

actually his job, being a representative of all of us. :)

[socialist_n_TN]

2. Oh yeah. Chuckie Todd was talking about...........

how the WH would be doing handstands with those numbers if they held up into October '12, but I was mostly QUITE surprised about the actual number of people who thought he was CONSERVATIVE! Double digits Sis! Double digits! I'm used to being considered a LONELY minority. A sliver. 11% is GREAT for the far left and I've got to feel like that's a BETTER number than it was before.

[babylonsister]

4. Hold on and edumicate me. Explain how conservative and socialist

are similar, because now I'm flummoxed! :dilemma:

[socialist_n_TN]

6. If you consider Obama a "conservative" .............

after all of the "socialist, Marxist" bombast of the last two years, you're seeing his policies as they are, economically right wing. Ergo, you're probably a far leftie. If you see him as a "liberal" you're probably a right winger because that the way THEY describe him. If you consider him a "moderate" you're probably more in the middle politically yourself. At least that's the way I read it. And I might be reading it wrong of course. It just seems logical to me that if you think of Obama as "consevative" you're a leftie. If you were a RWer you'd just KNOW that Obama was a "liberal".

I just didn't think that the % of the far left would even get to double digits, so I got excited! :)

[babylonsister]

7. So, as I said, he's doing his job. He's difficult to categorize, and

trying to please as many of his constituents as possible, totally unlike any recent president I can remember.

[socialist_n_TN]

15. Oh I didn't say he wasn't doing his job...........

AS A POLITICIAN. His job as a politician is to get reelected. For that he needs to be seen as moderate. I think that one reason he's now being seen as a "moderate" is because the message is getting out that a tenth of the country is MUCH more to the left than he is. A tithe might not seem like much, but when you consider that probably 40%+ of the population as a whole is apolitical, it's a sizable chunk of the ones who pay attention.

[OnyxCollie]

13. Your analysis is spot on.

As Philip Converse wrote in 1964, Belief Systems in Mass Publics, for David Apter's book, Ideology and Discontent, the majority of the American public are the moderates/independents who really don't know much about politics. They view politics by how they are treated.

The smallest segment of the American public are the most knowledgeable, with the greatest ability to determine what actions truly follow the constraints of liberal/conservative ID.

The 11% who say Obama is conservative are smart enough to see through the spin from the DLC hacks and have completely dismissed the "far left" label the RW has placed on him.

[socialist_n_TN]

16. If you overlay the research on self identifying...........

with this poll, I think it's a logical conclusion. Now, it's SPECULATION on my part that most of that 11% are socialists of one stripe or another, but I think that's a logical conclusion too. It's hard to pay attention to politics and NOT become a socialist if you're a leftie and ESPECIALLY if, relatively considered, you're a FAR leftie. So I feel pretty comfortable with my speculation on that 11%.

I'm not as comfortable with the speculation about the REST of the poll numbers, but I think it's also logical to count the 40% who self identify as CONSERVATIVE, as considering Obama a liberal. There might be a few Reagan Democrats who, RELATIVISTICALLY, consider themselves as "liberal" nowdays (the DLCers) and agree with Obama ALSO being a liberal. That leaves the rest, the ones who don't pay attention to politics more than every 4 years and consider themselves "moderate".

As I said in an earlier post, it's not the majority of this poll that I got excited about, That was pretty much expected. It was that 11%. I didn't expect that number to be as high as that.

[patrice]

25. Well, some of those ARE people who know what they're talking about well enough to get it right, so

they're not all Lefties who see him as a Rightie. Some are people who know the political spectrum well enough to identify his actual position at this point.

We also have the problem of whether respondents are placing him within the range of positions that are current, which is significantly skewed to the Right, so he looks like a centrist, or whether they are placing him within the range of positions that history indicates are possible, in which case he looks like a Rightie.

[Motown_Johnny]

3. he dismisses the 11% because there is no way Obama is conservative

To call him a Conservative is to categorize him along with people like Pat Buchanan or Dick Cheney.

You may as well poll what color the sky appears to be and then not dismiss the 11% who answer something other than blue


Even "very lefties" can look at his policies objectively and conclude that he is a left leaning moderate.

[socialist_n_TN]

5. Nope. He's center right...............

and going farther right all the time. The only place he's "center-left" is on SOME social issues. On the important stuff, economic, class issues, he's an old style Republican.

[Motown_Johnny]

17. he got elected running on repealing the Bush tax cuts

and if the actual conservatives did not hold all other legislation hostage he would have let them expire.

That isn't old style Republican anything. Neither is extending unemployment benefits, the Republicans wanted to stop those too.


You are a glass half empty person. You are focused only on what he has done that you don't agree with.

He is a left leaning moderate and if you can't see that it just means that you are in that 11% that are easily dismissed by people who are trying to have a serious discussion.

[Pirate Smile]

8. We should poll DU and see how large a segment that 11% is on DU.

My guess is that it is disproportionately larger or else they are just extraordinarily vocal.

What did Lawrence - who calls himself a socialist - say about the 11%? Lawrence: "Now, I was struck by how he is perceived, Chuck, in this poll in terms of liberal, moderate, we have 40% saying that he's a moderate, 45% seeing him as a liberal. And my favorite people in america, the 11% who think barack obama is a conservative, let's ignore them for the purposes of adult analysis of this poll."


http://www.livedash.com/transcript/the_last_word_with_lawrence_o'donnell/52/MSNBC/Wednesday_January_19_2011/550432/

My impression was that neither Lawrence or Chuck Todd thought Obama being labeled a conservative was anything other then laughable - which is how I view it when I see it posted here.

[bbgrunt]

9. of course they will laugh. It is not "acceptable" by the ptb to view him as conservative.

[BzaDem]

12. It is also not "acceptable" by the ptb to claim the earth is flat.

Occasionally, the "ptb" get it right.

[Joyce78]

10. Whenever I see Chuckie Todd ... I switch channels.

Morning Jokester and Mika also lose me ... I've tuned that show off for months.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Center right by American standards

Right by world standards...

Buchannan is far right

Some in the RNC (quite a bit actually) are radical right

And no this is not a center right country either.

[socialist_n_TN]

14. Thanks nadin. I'm a leftist by any standard............

but worldwide I'm a moderate leftie. Here I'm a rabble rousing Commie.

[Motown_Johnny]

18. Center Right by American Standards?!?!?

Let's see now...



I guess I will tackle this one by comparing him with the other Democratic candidates for President in 2008.


Sen. Clinton was chief among them. There is was almost no separation between them on major issues. Her support for NAFTA during her husband's administration was a small issue. So do you also consider Hillary Clinton to be right of center and even a bit farther right than President Obama?

Joe Biden made it to V.P.. I can think of no issue that then Sen. Biden was farther to the left than then Sen. Obama. Can you?

The same goes for Bill Richardson.

I have similar feelings about John Edwards. Although his "two Americas" approach to poverty could be seen as farther left than Barack Obama's. I must admit my prejudice when comparing the words of a rich lawyer to the years Mr. Obama spent as a poorly payed community organizer. I would place Mr. Obama to the left of Mr. Edwards simply because actions speak louder than words.

The only candidate for President in 2008 (of either party) who I would characterize as more liberal than then Sen. Obama would be Dennis Kucinich. It seems unreasonable to place him as the center just so everyone can be to the right of center. I would place Rep. Kucinich as "Left" and maybe even "Far Left" which would put all others to the right of him.



I would love to hear by what standards (other than your own personal views) you have decided are relevant to characterizing President Obama as right of center.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Yes, the right in this country has managed to make the political system

Go right. What used to be the center, not even a generation ago, are now considered lefty. The center is right...and the right is radical right.

I am using standard political science definitions.

The DLC is quite right of center, and many of them would have been moderate republicans but a generation ago.

[Motown_Johnny]

22. The center is right and Obama is right of center?

So it stands to reason that the following accomplishments are all victories for the Conservatives.



Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act

Children's Health Insurance

Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Prevention Act

Tobacco Regulation

Credit Card Reform

Student Loan Reform

Stimulus (including the largest investment in Green Energy ever and the single largest investment in education in our country ever)

Health Reform

Wall Street Reform

The New G.I. Bill

Food Safety Modernization Act

Don't Ask Don't Tell Repeal




All Conservative Victories?!?!?


If so, I need to reconsider my political beliefs.



That list is from The Maddow Show
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj868vfkj1I







I would still argue that if we consider "American Standards" (your term, not mine) to mean the standards which Americans now hold then President Obama is clearly a left leaning moderate.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Look the EPA by TODAY's standards is quite lefty

and yes, these things are quite moderate.

I sugest a political science course. If nothing else, go buy a textbook and do some self study. No, not the dummies guide, an actual textbook.

[patrice]

29. Despite their media labels, all of those are right-of-center accomplishments. nt

[patrice]

30. If the dividing point in the continuum is 50:50, L:R, these accomplishments represent 1:50, L:R

[Capitalocracy]

37. So now that the right has gone off the cliff

a clearly conservative president should be considered liberal, because what's important is the comparison?

[Marr]

19. I don't think Obama is a conservative. I think he's a man for whom ideology means

nothing, and is interested mainly in his own political career. He seems to be very intent on courting big business for his own campaigns and for the party. He gives them everything he can, and gives voters only what he must.

So I don't think he's a liberal or a conservative. I think he's a good example of the modern executive, found in board rooms all over the nation. Sell the store, fire the employees, do whatever you have to do to make your next quarter look good on paper. Long term doesn't matter, actual results don't matter-- it's all about your own resume and that golden parachute.

[patrice]

24. Just curious here, not saying you are necessarily wrong because this applies to me too: Do you ever

wonder about things you don't know?

[Marr]

27. I don't understand.

Of course-- I don't claim to know everything. I only form opinions based on the information to which I have access.

[patrice]

28. Of course you/I do. Do you think the President possibly does the same? nt

[Marr]

35. Of course. But he could do that and fit my description just fine.

[patrice]

36. You assume a different motive for the process than I am suggesting. And ideology

is what, at the grassroots level, drove the Invasion & Occupation of Iraq.

Ideology has been responsible for a lot of atrocities throughout the ages. Currently, there is a high probability that ideology could result in a loss in 2012, because Obama is judged (on extremely limited and incomplete information) as not "Left" enough, and the result of that loss would almost certainly be an insured Republican majority for at least a decade, which will cost not only the future of SCOTUS, but also Medicare Reform that prioritizes the quality of care instead of a guaranteed jobs program for Republican campaign donors; any momentum that has built for domestically manufactured alternative energy technology; advances toward functional responses to global climate change; Labor's opportunity to put themselves together well enough to have a good try at the Employee Free Choice Act; whatever chance there is for a little less War; LGBT community's Civil Right to marry . . . ~ And, in my book, anyone who says the suffering of others is acceptable for _______________ is just "meet the 'new' boss, same as the old boss".

[patrice]

32. Is it possible that he places more validity on process than ideology? nt

[PufPuf23]

33. Obama is a neo-liberal and think your post very insightful.

Most people don't have an option to make choices in this manner and succeed over the long term without losing empathy to fellow humans, life, and Nature. Those that chose to maintain this strategy by choice or circumstance win the game of social Darwinism that, ironically, is not pro-Homo sapian or short-term Nature.

Regardless of political or spiritual or other bias, human population is fouling Nature to self-harm and the population and impact on the natural world needs to be reduced to meet the idealism of most at DU IMO. The question is how to get there. Politics and economics are subsets of ecology not the reverse.

[leftstreet]

34. +1 He's the First CEO n/t

[robcon]

20. I think 'over the top' dislike of Obama on DU and other sites...

leads people to make claims they don't really believe.

That's the best explanation of the "11% conservative" number.

[patrice]

23. K&R

[moondust]

31. Depends on where you place the "center."

Many people believe the "center" in the U.S. has shifted quite a bit to the right over the past 2-3 decades.