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RiverStone
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:08 PM Original message |
OWS protester to me today: "We don't like liberals!" |
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Modern_Matthew
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:09 PM Response to Original message |
1. Liberals aren't far left enough for me. nt |
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Warpy
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:24 PM Response to Reply #1 |
17. Me either, BUT |
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Modern_Matthew
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:28 PM Response to Reply #17 |
22. No arguments on that. Time for something different this time, though. nt |
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alcibiades_mystery
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:24 PM Response to Reply #1 |
19. Ayup |
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Enthusiast
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Fri Nov-18-11 09:11 AM Response to Reply #1 |
95. Many of what they call liberals today, aren't. |
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LWolf
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Fri Nov-18-11 01:50 PM Response to Reply #95 |
102. Nailed it. nt |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 02:32 PM Response to Reply #95 |
104. Bingo. The term "liberal" has been applied to all Democrats. It ain't so. |
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WCGreen
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Fri Nov-18-11 05:58 PM Original message |
Exactly! |
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MedleyMisty
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:11 PM Response to Original message |
2. Umm... |
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FarLeftFist
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:15 PM Response to Reply #2 |
7. Me and You walked very similar paths... |
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tosh
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:16 PM Original message |
Exactly. |
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RiverStone
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:18 PM Response to Reply #2 |
12. Your VOTE is still worth something... |
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TBF
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:28 PM Response to Reply #12 |
23. Maybe in your neighborhood it meant something - |
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RiverStone
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:33 PM Response to Reply #23 |
30. Do you still vote? Even in local elections? n/t |
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TBF
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Fri Nov-18-11 08:15 AM Response to Reply #30 |
90. Yes sir - |
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Ohio Joe
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:24 PM Response to Reply #2 |
20. And who has ruled the vast majority of those 30 years? |
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TBF
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:30 PM Response to Reply #20 |
25. 8 years of it was Bill Clinton, who signed NAFTA, and also ruled quite |
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Ohio Joe
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:37 PM Response to Reply #25 |
34. So that makes not voting a good option? |
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ZombieHorde
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Thu Nov-17-11 11:58 PM Response to Reply #34 |
83. I agree with you. I think we should vote, but I do understand the frustration with our politicians. |
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TBF
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Fri Nov-18-11 08:12 AM Response to Reply #34 |
89. Joe I always vote - and I did work on Obama's campaign |
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tsuki
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:32 PM Response to Reply #20 |
29. All the young people have heard for the Political-Corporate-Media Cabal |
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Ohio Joe
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:39 PM Response to Reply #29 |
36. "government IS the problem" - teabagger mantra |
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tsuki
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:23 PM Response to Reply #36 |
62. Government IS the problem has been the GOP mantra for 30 years, |
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JoePhilly
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:29 PM Response to Reply #2 |
24. Republicans controlled the white house for about 20 of your 31 or so years. |
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csziggy
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:34 PM Response to Reply #2 |
33. I can understand how you feel - my first time voting was in 1972 |
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southernyankeebelle
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:59 PM Response to Reply #2 |
43. Unless a person votes you have no right to bitch about anything. That is the |
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Terry in Austin
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Fri Nov-18-11 04:11 PM Response to Reply #43 |
124. That's the way it would work in a democratic country |
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pnwmom
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:14 PM Response to Reply #2 |
56. Things are as bad as they are because many progressives didn't bother to vote last time. |
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Bandit
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Fri Nov-18-11 09:06 AM Response to Reply #2 |
94. Do you feel you have ANY civic responsibilities at all and if so what would those be? |
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gort
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Fri Nov-18-11 01:48 PM Response to Reply #2 |
101. Look what not voting in the 2010 elections did to this country |
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hack89
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Fri Nov-18-11 03:11 PM Response to Reply #2 |
112. So how do you propose to change America without people voting? |
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treestar
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Fri Nov-18-11 06:01 PM Response to Reply #2 |
147. Because your fellow voters do not want as much change |
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FarLeftFist
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:12 PM Response to Original message |
3. One thing is for sure, they're not voting republican. At OWS the Ron Paul crowd left long ago. |
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quinnox
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:13 PM Response to Original message |
4. I hardly think one protester and what they shouted to you is at all representative |
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HCE SuiGeneris
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:19 PM Response to Reply #4 |
15. + (insert number) |
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RiverStone
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:26 PM Response to Reply #4 |
21. I never suggested either... |
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Wind Dancer
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:13 PM Response to Original message |
5. Don't base your opinion from speaking to ... |
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RiverStone
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:37 PM Response to Reply #5 |
35. It's not. But I do feel OWS needs a different tact... |
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mmonk
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:14 PM Response to Original message |
6. Plenty of people here belong to an Occupy. |
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gkhouston
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:15 PM Response to Original message |
8. I don't think there's a one-to-one mapping between OWS and any extant party. |
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alp227
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:16 PM Response to Original message |
9. sounds like a libertarian to me |
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Skittles
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:16 PM Response to Original message |
10. 99% would include a lot of idiots |
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AnOhioan
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:16 PM Response to Original message |
11. OWS is not affiliated with any party...nor should they be. |
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firehorse
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:23 PM Response to Reply #11 |
16. ^ my thoughts exactly - I've always voted but the voting system is rigged |
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Bryn
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:58 PM Response to Reply #11 |
42. Good answer! |
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Lint Head
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:19 PM Response to Original message |
13. How can one person speak for "we"? Is she the ultimate spokes person for OWS? |
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RiverStone
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:31 PM Response to Reply #13 |
26. No, but she was very passionate and I was interested in her thoughts |
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JoePhilly
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:19 PM Response to Original message |
14. I think large parts of it must engage the political realm. |
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TheKentuckian
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:32 PM Response to Reply #14 |
28. The global corporate elite are at least as bad as a king and I say worse |
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JoePhilly
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:49 PM Response to Reply #28 |
41. So you think we need a war? |
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TheKentuckian
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Sat Nov-19-11 02:58 PM Response to Reply #41 |
180. One need not call for a war to disagree with your reasoning in a point. |
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Enthusiast
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Fri Nov-18-11 09:17 AM Response to Reply #28 |
96. It's true. |
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nadinbrzezinski
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:24 PM Response to Original message |
18. two things I have learned about OWS... close and personal |
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bigtree
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:32 PM Response to Original message |
27. Baynard Rustin |
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TreasonousBastard
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:44 PM Response to Reply #27 |
74. Bayard Rustin! I never met him, although I knew some who did, and this... |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 02:49 PM Response to Reply #27 |
105. 1963 was very different from 2011. |
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bigtree
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Fri Nov-18-11 03:02 PM Response to Reply #105 |
108. yes |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 03:58 PM Response to Reply #108 |
120. That is a selective comparison of 1963 and 2011. |
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bigtree
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Fri Nov-18-11 04:12 PM Response to Reply #120 |
126. right, I mispelled his name here |
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Scruffy1
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Fri Nov-18-11 07:28 PM Response to Reply #105 |
175. I don't think so. |
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scarletwoman
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:33 PM Response to Original message |
31. It seems to me that liberalism and electoral politics have unequivocally proven to be ineffective |
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RiverStone
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:43 PM Response to Reply #31 |
38. minus an overthrow of the governent, what is your definition of change? |
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scarletwoman
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:04 PM Response to Reply #38 |
46. I still vote, though merely as an act of mitigation. At the age of 62, I'm long past believing that |
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harun
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Fri Nov-18-11 06:18 AM Response to Reply #31 |
87. You are correct. The political system in the United States has moved further right |
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Enthusiast
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Fri Nov-18-11 09:24 AM Response to Reply #31 |
97. Unequivocally |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 02:52 PM Response to Reply #31 |
106. The US has not had a liberal administration since Johnson. |
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Texasgal
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:34 PM Response to Original message |
32. OWS should be free of party lines. |
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flamingdem
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:39 PM Response to Reply #32 |
37. But it's not. Let's get real. OWS occupied bridges = compatible with Obama jobs bill nt |
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Texasgal
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:44 PM Response to Reply #37 |
39. Or perhaps |
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scarletwoman
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:09 PM Response to Reply #39 |
51. I would say that they ARE political, they are simply not PARTISAN political. |
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flamingdem
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:13 PM Response to Reply #51 |
54. A pox on both their houses is too risky considering the Republican mentality nt |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 04:09 PM Response to Reply #54 |
123. Riskier than 1776? |
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flamingdem
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Fri Nov-18-11 08:18 PM Response to Reply #123 |
179. An OWS spokesperson on msnbc just spoke in support of unions and dems |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 04:07 PM Response to Reply #37 |
121. Not really. Perhaps a lot more compatible with New Deal jobs programs. |
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pnwmom
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:16 PM Response to Reply #32 |
57. The only way to change the political system is to be part of it. |
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RiverStone
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:22 PM Response to Reply #57 |
61. I agree --- at least for 2012, OWS will be influencial |
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scarletwoman
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:44 PM Response to Reply #57 |
73. Utter nonsense. You change a political system by refusing to cooperate with it. |
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pnwmom
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:59 PM Response to Reply #73 |
79. Utter nonsense. Our democracy has its problems, but it's not equivalent |
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scarletwoman
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Thu Nov-17-11 11:06 PM Response to Reply #79 |
81. The entrenchment of the powerful few, to the detriment of the many is very much equivalent. |
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pnwmom
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Fri Nov-18-11 06:12 AM Response to Reply #81 |
86. It's absurd to think that stepping away from the political process will do any good. |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 04:14 PM Response to Reply #86 |
127. Do you think Afghans can't wait to vote again? |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 04:12 PM Response to Reply #79 |
125. She did not say our democracy was better or worse than the Soviet bloc. |
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MFrohike
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Fri Nov-18-11 06:28 AM Response to Reply #73 |
88. Nonsense |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 04:20 PM Response to Reply #88 |
129. Not sure what the 1932 election had to do with the 2012 election. |
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MFrohike
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Fri Nov-18-11 07:09 PM Response to Reply #129 |
169. Right |
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Douglas Carpenter
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:46 PM Response to Original message |
40. Phil Ochs: Love Me, I'm a Liberal |
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Ken Burch
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:23 PM Response to Reply #40 |
63. Thanks for posting those, Douglas |
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Douglas Carpenter
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:26 PM Response to Reply #63 |
66. don't we all? |
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Lydia Leftcoast
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Fri Nov-18-11 06:43 PM Response to Reply #40 |
162. The OP immediately brought to mind Phil Ochs's song |
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Douglas Carpenter
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Fri Nov-18-11 07:27 PM Response to Reply #162 |
174. well yes some of it is pure nostalgia like hearing the opening theme song to Lassie |
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Bryn
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Thu Nov-17-11 09:59 PM Response to Original message |
44. K&R |
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RiverStone
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:05 PM Response to Reply #44 |
47. Thanks Bryn |
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Bryn
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:47 PM Response to Reply #47 |
75. Still at Zero! My goodness |
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unkachuck
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:03 PM Response to Original message |
45. "Because they have not changed the system either." |
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RiverStone
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:06 PM Response to Reply #45 |
48. Do you think that can happen within the 2 party system? |
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unkachuck
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:24 PM Response to Reply #48 |
64. not in the two party system.... |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 04:26 PM Response to Reply #48 |
132. You do realize you've made several posts that could be considered "flypaper," right? |
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me b zola
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:07 PM Response to Original message |
49. Frankly, I'm quite frustrated with people who say they support the movement |
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hack89
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Fri Nov-18-11 03:17 PM Response to Reply #49 |
114. Our frustration is trying to turn that energy into something tangible |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 04:29 PM Response to Reply #49 |
133. I don't want to say goodbye, but I'd like to kiss you. Smooch! |
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me b zola
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:09 PM Response to Original message |
50. to answer your question... |
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RiverStone
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:19 PM Response to Reply #50 |
59. It will effect the 2012 election, maybe in a profound way regardless |
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me b zola
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Fri Nov-18-11 01:39 PM Response to Reply #59 |
100. Bernie is one of the few that I can count on one hand |
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a la izquierda
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:09 PM Response to Original message |
52. Liberals haven't changed the system? |
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xchrom
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:10 PM Response to Original message |
53. Are you a 'Liberal' or are you a 'Progressive'? |
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RiverStone
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:17 PM Response to Reply #53 |
58. Ummm, guess I have been and am both --- and a registered DEM |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 02:57 PM Response to Reply #58 |
107. Why I never say I am a "progressive." |
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Skidmore
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Fri Nov-18-11 09:05 AM Response to Reply #53 |
93. I don't think you can be one without the other. |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 03:03 PM Response to Reply #93 |
109. I don't think you can be both. Please see Reply 107. |
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Skidmore
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Fri Nov-18-11 04:55 PM Response to Reply #109 |
141. So labels are meaningless after all/ |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 06:07 PM Response to Reply #141 |
153. Quite the opposite, IMO, but you apparently don't want to change your original view on that. |
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ellisonz
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:14 PM Response to Original message |
55. That's Portland for you. |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 04:31 PM Response to Reply #55 |
136. That's one young woman. It's not even Portland OWS, let alone Portland. |
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ellisonz
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Fri Nov-18-11 05:54 PM Response to Reply #136 |
144. True. |
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Ken Burch
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:19 PM Response to Original message |
60. on Tuesday, the "liberal" mayor of Portland gave in to the C of C and the police chief |
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RiverStone
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:25 PM Response to Reply #60 |
65. Not saying they should --- but the anger at "liberals" from this young women... |
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Ken Burch
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:30 PM Response to Reply #65 |
68. Well, the liberal political leadership hasn't exactly been enthusiastic about OWS |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 06:51 PM Response to Reply #65 |
164. I don't follow. |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 03:04 PM Response to Reply #60 |
110. Excellent point. |
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KurtNYC
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:27 PM Response to Original message |
67. She took a poll? |
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EFerrari
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:32 PM Response to Original message |
69. Legislation in a democracy is a result of a functioning agreement between |
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Douglas Carpenter
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:32 PM Response to Original message |
70. frankly even in many classic leftist circles the word liberal can have a pejorative connotation |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 03:07 PM Response to Reply #70 |
111. Leftists see liberals as political uncle toms ? LOL |
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Douglas Carpenter
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Fri Nov-18-11 04:40 PM Response to Reply #111 |
140. in almost the entire world - the political struggle has been for most the last hundred years |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 07:23 PM Response to Reply #140 |
173. You didn't answer my question. |
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Douglas Carpenter
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Fri Nov-18-11 07:51 PM Response to Reply #173 |
176. Obviously most of the Democratic Party leadership and certainly the dominating "third way" types are |
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Tsiyu
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:32 PM Response to Original message |
71. If we're going to bring up "the vote" |
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Ken Burch
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:42 PM Response to Original message |
72. Related thread I just started: |
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RainDog
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:50 PM Response to Original message |
76. that person was telling you what A LOT of people who feel disenfranchised think |
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Better Believe It
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:50 PM Response to Original message |
77. If given the opportunity most Democratic Party leaders would strangle the OWS movement |
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scarletwoman
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Thu Nov-17-11 10:55 PM Response to Reply #77 |
78. Well and succinctly said. |
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Douglas Carpenter
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Thu Nov-17-11 11:04 PM Response to Reply #77 |
80. I agree. |
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RiverStone
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Fri Nov-18-11 12:08 AM Response to Reply #77 |
85. MSNBC has been paying attention |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 03:18 PM Response to Reply #85 |
116. Rachael is very much mainstream and so is O'Donnell (thought LOD talks |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 03:12 PM Response to Reply #77 |
113. If given the opportunity, Democrats would have Republicans strangle the OWS movement. |
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freshwest
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Thu Nov-17-11 11:17 PM Response to Original message |
82. The problem with that approach, and it's not unique to OWS, is that the current system was created.. |
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Lionessa
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Thu Nov-17-11 11:59 PM Response to Original message |
84. I think the young lady simply made a mistake many seem to make, assuming a Democrat is a liberal |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 03:24 PM Response to Reply #84 |
117. I don't think all Democrats were ever liberal. |
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2pooped2pop
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Fri Nov-18-11 08:58 AM Response to Original message |
91. It seems to me... |
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chrisa
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Fri Nov-18-11 09:00 AM Response to Original message |
92. Yeah, true. I think OWS should beware of Paulites |
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leftynyc
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Fri Nov-18-11 09:25 AM Response to Original message |
98. Eh - it's one person |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 05:53 PM Response to Reply #98 |
143. Good thing voters who don't agree with you about that stay home, then, right? |
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deucemagnet
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Fri Nov-18-11 09:26 AM Response to Original message |
99. Changing peoples' minds takes time. |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 05:56 PM Response to Reply #99 |
145. I agree |
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Tierra_y_Libertad
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Fri Nov-18-11 01:52 PM Response to Original message |
103. Liberals |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 06:08 PM Response to Reply #103 |
154. That SDS saying is bullshit. Perhaps they are confusing neoliberals |
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Blue_In_AK
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Fri Nov-18-11 03:17 PM Response to Original message |
115. I think it is void of political affiliation, and I think it should be. |
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bvar22
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Fri Nov-18-11 03:45 PM Response to Original message |
118. "Liberals" as personified by today's Democratic Party ARE part of the problem. |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 06:13 PM Response to Reply #118 |
156. Actually, the problem is that the Democratic Party has not personified liberals |
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bvar22
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Fri Nov-18-11 06:53 PM Response to Reply #156 |
165. Totally agree. |
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Terry in Austin
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Fri Nov-18-11 03:53 PM Response to Original message |
119. Political affiliation implies electoral politics |
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tinkerbell41
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Fri Nov-18-11 04:08 PM Response to Original message |
122. I gotta say |
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Terry in Austin
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Fri Nov-18-11 04:15 PM Response to Reply #122 |
128. You go, tink! |
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uppityperson
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Fri Nov-18-11 04:24 PM Response to Original message |
130. "I don't trust the government with my vote". Why not vote for someone she trusts? |
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dameocrat67
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Fri Nov-18-11 04:31 PM Response to Reply #130 |
135. because non rich people have no control over the candidates |
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uppityperson
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Fri Nov-18-11 04:35 PM Response to Reply #135 |
138. Then run locally. City council. School board. Or even state legislature. Even people like us |
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dameocrat67
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Fri Nov-18-11 04:37 PM Response to Reply #138 |
139. i doubt any object to that anyway, but I wont vote for a dlc scum or a republican |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 06:02 PM Response to Reply #138 |
148. The local parties are no different than the national parties. |
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uppityperson
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Fri Nov-18-11 06:08 PM Response to Reply #148 |
155. Maybe not where you live, but yes, there are plenty of place they are. |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 06:35 PM Response to Reply #155 |
160. Respectfully, I don't think you've actually tested that proposition in plenty of places lately. |
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treestar
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Fri Nov-18-11 06:02 PM Response to Reply #130 |
149. Exactly - she just sounds idiotic |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 06:15 PM Response to Reply #149 |
157. Oops. Sorry. Misread the placement in the thread. |
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Taverner
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Fri Nov-18-11 04:25 PM Response to Original message |
131. PDX has always had a nice little Anarchist streak in it... |
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dameocrat67
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Fri Nov-18-11 04:29 PM Response to Original message |
134. The trouble is you socalled liberals dont represent us when we vote for you |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 06:32 PM Response to Reply #134 |
159. Obama is not a liberal. I don't recall his saying he is a liberal, so he is not a so-called |
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Youth Uprising
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Fri Nov-18-11 06:38 PM Response to Reply #134 |
161. Bullshit. |
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fascisthunter
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Fri Nov-18-11 07:13 PM Response to Reply #134 |
171. um.... that's because you really don't know what a liberal is |
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theophilus
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Fri Nov-18-11 04:33 PM Response to Original message |
137. Many of these young folks have some very different ideas for many of us here. I know a young lady |
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mulsh
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Fri Nov-18-11 05:16 PM Response to Original message |
142. ...and now...Lenny Bruce |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 06:55 PM Response to Reply #142 |
166. 1610 posts in over 8 years and you wasted a post on a cheap shot at liberals in Bruce's name? |
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HappyMe
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Fri Nov-18-11 05:58 PM Response to Original message |
146. Well, so what? |
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Motown_Johnny
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Fri Nov-18-11 06:04 PM Response to Original message |
150. But we did change the system... we just did it back in the 1930s |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 07:09 PM Response to Reply #150 |
168. Yes, but it will be much harder now. Please see Reply 129. |
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DevonRex
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Fri Nov-18-11 06:04 PM Response to Original message |
151. We had a bunch of Ron Paul supporters at our protest. So I'm not surprised. |
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onethatcares
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Fri Nov-18-11 06:06 PM Response to Original message |
152. I think it should be void of political affiliation. But, it should |
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Youth Uprising
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Fri Nov-18-11 06:25 PM Response to Original message |
158. Over the last couple of weeks I've really grown to dislike the Communist left. |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 08:04 PM Response to Reply #158 |
177. Is there a Communist right? |
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Youth Uprising
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Sat Nov-19-11 07:10 PM Response to Reply #177 |
181. I used the term 'Communist left' |
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Lydia Leftcoast
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Fri Nov-18-11 06:48 PM Response to Original message |
163. There's a reason why a young person would feel that way |
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Youth Uprising
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Fri Nov-18-11 07:07 PM Response to Reply #163 |
167. As a liberal I feel that way about the Democratic Party. |
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bvar22
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Fri Nov-18-11 07:12 PM Response to Original message |
170. I wonder if she would agree with these? |
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ClassWarrior
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Fri Nov-18-11 07:18 PM Response to Original message |
172. ANSWER: I think OWS should use every tool available to it, political and otherwise, and... |
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No Elephants
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Fri Nov-18-11 08:16 PM Response to Original message |
178. "QUESTION: Do you think OWS is void of political affiliation - or should be?" |
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