Wait not agian! Neutrino experiment repeat at Cern finds same result

[RegieRocker]

The team which found that neutrinos may travel faster than light has carried out an improved version of their experiment - and confirmed the result.

If confirmed by other experiments, the find could undermine one of the basic principles of modern physics.

Critics of the first report in September had said that the long bunches of neutrinos (tiny particles) used could introduce an error into the test.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15791236

Take that and smoke it.

[NYC_SKP]

1. There's shit out there that travels faster than light, trust me.

Any time a scientist says there's some limit, and I don't care if it's Einstein or anyone else, I get suspicious.

It's just a matter of time before it's proven.

And then something else will come along to be contested.

I love science!

:P

[Deep13]

9. Trust you? That's evidence?! nt

[MjolnirTime]

19. The evidence is in the data from CERN

[roguevalley]

30. given that this is what, the third confirmation of this fact... trusting

him is probably pretty good odds. :)

[Deep13]

37. Well, maybe, but it's just the way he put it. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

28. Except that Einstein deduced relativity by realizing that time and space would be all fucked up if

things werent that way.

I suspect relativity is safe. It's been experimentally validated repeatedly.

[Supply Side Jesus]

40. subspace!!

[Warren DeMontague]

41. subgenius!

[Supply Side Jesus]

45. Gene Roddenberry was pretty much a prophet

[TexasTowelie]

2. I will.

I mean, I did.

[Speck Tater]

3. The neutrinos didn't really go fdaster than light.

They phoned ahead to some of their identical twin neutrino brothers and had them step in as ringers at the finish line. Kind of like you and your twin cheating on the marathon race by having him hide out near the finish line. Take my word for it. That's how those sneaky neutrinos pulled it off.

[Duer 157099]

20. Quantum entanglement

I agree, that's probably what happened.

[The Magistrate]

21. You Know, Sir, You May Think You Are Joking, But You May Be On To Something....

Modern physics is quite beyond me; these people bewilder and baffle me to the point of genuine aggravation. But one thing does seem to stand out about quantum effects, namely, that they are weird as all get out. The Greeks used to say that what was beautiful was true, and you will still see the elegance of a theory or its mathematics referenced as an indication it is,or at least ought to be, true. Well, at the quantum effect level, it seems it is not beauty that is truth, but weirdness. The idea that a particle creates duplicates of itself in advance of its movement strikes me as just the sort of idea these physicists nowadays would come up with...and maybe it is true....

[WCGreen]

38. I've been watching the Nova shows of late, talking about string theory

and how it related to relativity...

[Ikonoklast]

23. This might be closer to the actuality than you might believe.

It isn't that the neutrino actually travelled the distance faster than c, it's that already covered the observable distance before it started.

It would be more like having a twin neutrino standing at the finish line an hour before the race even started.

[Kablooie]

27. I heard that light just slowed down for a moment to let the neutrinos pass.

[Mnemosyne]

35. Did the neutrinos even signal that they were passing? n/t

[Kablooie]

36. Light could disCERN that they were coming by.

I hate myself for typing that.

[Mnemosyne]

43. You had to do it!

:rofl:

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. I love it, how science actually works

and no, I do not intend to try to explain this to you again...

[greyl]

5. Looking forward to independent confirmation. nt

[spin]

6. We may not know as much as we felt ...

if so, the Gods are laughing at us.

[Fumesucker]

7. All You Zombies..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E2%80%94All_You_Zombies%E2%80%94

Narrative order of events
The story involves an intricate series of time-travel journeys. It begins with a young man speaking to the narrator, the Bartender, in 1970. The young man is called the Unmarried Mother, because he writes stories for confession magazines, many of them presumably from the point of view of an unmarried mother.

Cajoled by the Bartender, the Unmarried Mother explains why he understands the female viewpoint so well: he was born a girl, in 1945, and raised in an orphanage. While a fairly ugly teenager in 1963, he (that is, she) was seduced, impregnated, and abandoned by an older man. During the delivery of her child, doctors discovered she had an intersex condition: internally, she had both male and female sex organs. Complications during delivery forced them to give her a sex change. The baby was later kidnapped and not seen again. The now-former girl had to adjust to being a man and surviving as such, despite being unprepared for any job. As a girl he/she had preferred etiquette lessons, hoping to join an organization dedicated to providing "comfort and companionship" to astronauts, known at various times by the elaborate acronyms "W.E.N.C.H.E.S." (Women's Emergency National Corps, Hospitality & Entertainment Section), "A.N.G.E.L.S." (Auxiliary Nursing Group, Extraterrestrial Legions), and the Women's Hospitality Order Refortifying & Encouraging Spacemen (the only name without its acronym spelled out in the story, "W.H.O.R.E.S."). Handicapped by the physical aftereffects of childbirth, he used his secretarial skills to type manuscripts, and eventually began writing.

Professing sympathy, the Bartender offers to top his story. He guides him into a back room, and casts a net over the two of them. This is part of a time machine. The young man is set loose in 1963 where he dates, falls for, seduces, impregnates, and leaves a young girl; at the same time the Bartender goes forward eleven months, kidnaps a baby and takes it to an orphanage in 1945. He then returns to 1963, and picks up the Unmarried Mother, who is just beginning to realize what has happened. As the Bartender tells him, "Now you know who he is—and after you think it over you'll know who you are . . . and if you think hard enough, you'll figure out who the baby is . . . and who I am."
T
he Bartender then drops the Unmarried Mother—his younger self—at an outpost of the Temporal Bureau, a time-traveling secret police force that causes events in history to protect the human race. He has just recruited himself.
Finally the Bartender returns to 1970, arriving a short time after he left the bar. He allows a customer to play "I'm My Own Grandpa" on the jukebox, having yelled at the customer for playing the song before he left. Closing the bar he time travels again to his home base. As he beds down for a much deserved rest, he contemplates the scar left over from the Caesarean section performed when he gave birth to his daughter, father, mother and entire history. He thinks "I know where I came from—but where did all you zombies come from?".


:crazy:

:evilgrin:

[RegieRocker]

12. They don't get it. Impossible for zombies.

But there was some important information on CDC for Zombie protection.

[Fumesucker]

16. Yeah, I saw a van a few days ago at the flea market that had this on it..

A big one on the back..

I didn't realize that was the CDC..

[RegieRocker]

24. Not sure about that but much is coded and most don't get it

like this
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a6YdNmK77k

[girl gone mad]

8. The only change they made to the experiment was to shorten the pulse duration..

to 3 ns.

We did have an exciting result coming out of the HCP conference last week, but this wasn't it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. They intend to repeat it at Livermore

I am concerned that the size of the Collider might actually prevent them from getting meaningful results... (Yes very much lay understanding but size matters in speeds achieved)... we enter into error in the instrument if indeed they are not getting the right result.

If they are... it opens doors to new avenues of research.

[MjolnirTime]

18. why cling to the old ways with your eyes shut tightly?

[girl gone mad]

25. What old ways?

Imagine this result is verified. Then what? it's not even a violation of SR, which we already know is wrong. It won't bring down GR so why pin your hopes to it?

I applaud the work and effort that went into this experiment. The hype has been overdone, however.

[Deep13]

10. Huh. Well, I'll be interested to see more tests.

Sounds like they still have possible errors to rule out.

[Ikonoklast]

13. Einstein predicted infinite mass the closer a particle accelerated closer to light speed.

He never considered a particle that already traveled faster than the limit of light speed at creation.

[RegieRocker]

14. Yea yea yea. More blathering. Hard to swallow isn't it.

[WillyT]

15. I Believe It's Called... 4G...

:hide::evilgrin::hide:

:rofl:

:yoiks:

[RoccoR5955]

17. What if it's not some quantum effect?

It's difficult for me to explain, but it could require further examination of theories of quantum physics.

[Buns_of_Fire]

22. But weren't we supposed to be sucked into a black hole right about now?

Maybe we were. I'm always the last to find out about such things.

[RegieRocker]

26. That was the ecconomic crash

[Warren DeMontague]

29. And you believe this proves what?

Again, I think the fact that the Neutrinos from Supernova 1987A didn't show up in, say, 1984 prove that widespread superluminal neutrino transport across large distances is unlikely.

The most interesting potential explanation I've seen for these results is the notion- admittedly not fleshed out- that the neutrinos may be taking shortcuts across the kaluza-klein dimensions required for something like string theory.

The most idiotic "explanation" I've seen (using the term loosely) is "THIS PROVES THAT THE HOUSE OF SCIENCE IS COMING DOWN!" or that somehow this validates the cluck-nuttery of creationists and the other Vatican financed waterheads at the Discovery Institute.

[roguevalley]

31. Nerd wars. this is awesome. :)

[WillyT]

33. ROFLMAO !!!

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Doesn't get much funnier, er... better than that.

:evilgrin:

:hi:

:kick:

[roguevalley]

34. backatcha, love.

:hug:

[Warren DeMontague]

39. Damn straight.

Saturday motherfucking night. Right here.

[scarletwoman]

32. Is deja vu faster than light?

I'm sure I've asked this question before...

[freshwest]

42. Oh, the horror! They'll have to lay some of them off.

[Shadowflash]

44. Not new information

I saw this when it first came out 30 days from now.

[SidDithers]

46. Take that and smoke it?...

:rofl:

Faster than light finding faulted in new neutrino test

An international group of scientists says that the speed of light has not been broken, rejecting a "faster than light" particle claim made recently which cast doubt on Albert Einstein's century-old ideas about relativity.

The new paper, published in the online journal arxiv.org/abs/1110.3763v2, contradicts the findings of fellow researchers at Italy's Gran Sasso laboratory, who said their experiments with a neutrino beam registered particles flying faster than the speed of light.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57328668/faster-than-light-finding-faulted-in-new-neutrino-test

'Faster-than-light' observations reined in

The same subatomic particles clocked going faster than light speed by European scientists show signs indicating they are moving at only the speed of light, says a group of Italian physicists.

The ICARUS collaboration based their conclusion on an independent analysis of particles known as neutrinos generated at CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research, and travelling to Gran Sasso, Italy.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2011/11/21/science-neutrinos-light-speed.html

Sid