President Obama? He's Just Not Relevant...

[JFN1]

Just to be clear:

Relevant -- Having significant and demonstrable bearing on the matter at hand.
-- (source - Merriam Webster Dictionary on my desk)

President Obama, through his silence, through his attempts to once again be the middleman, through his refusal to voice his OWN opinion and the ethical foundations upon which they rest, has proven himself, at least to me, to be completely without relevance to the #Occupations.

President Obama's entire significant and demonstrable bearing, is focused with politically typical precision upon his own reelection - and that is all.

President Obama is trying to juggle his performace against his promises, while riding a bipartisan unicycle on a Republican tightrope 8 miles above the rest of us; it would actually be a miracle if he had any relevance to #OWS, given where his thoughts and deeds seem to be centered, so far and above the rest of us.

No one in and of the #OWS protests, is even mentioning President Obama. In fact, he's been out of town the past couple of weeks in Asia, and he is likely expecting to come home trumpeting his foreign policy brilliance.

But the country has changed significantly in the last 10 days, and Mr. Obama is not returning to the same America he left, so short a time ago.

The 1% has brazenly sicced their private, incredibly well armed and angry, armies upon us, and there has been no mention whatsoever, no condemnation, no promised investigations, - there has been NOTHING from him or his administration - about the brutilization of American citizens exercising their most basic RIGHTS, while our SWORN PROTECTORS shred the Constitution with sociopathic glee as they criminally abuse their power over the 99%.

Mr. Obama, his administration, and especially his DOJ, don't need to defend #OWS; but they are duty bound to protect and defend the fucking Constitution. And when they fail to do so, they do indeed send the clearest and strongest message possible about OUR relevance, to them...

Thus, I leave you with this thought, voiced when our country was still newly born. Please keep it in mind, if you would, when Mr. Obama returns and political expediency requires him to address all of this:

The greatest of faults, I should say, is to be conscious of none. -Thomas Carlyle, writer (1795-1881)

* -- on edit -- I just want to add, based on a few of the comments, that President Obama has made HIMSELF irrelevant - #OWS and the 99% didn't do it, and neither did the Repubs. Mr. Obama is irrelevant due to his OWN decisions.

** -- also edited for spelling --

[RegieRocker]

1. Loud and clear!

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fumesucker]

2. Silence is the tacit nod of acquiescence.

[emilyg]

8. +10

[DonCoquixote]

33. You think Hillary would support ows

Indeed, considering she just helped wage war in Libya, why is she silent on OWS?

[Amonester]

88. Good question.

It's not like she doesn't have any "access" or maybe she did tell him that he is about to lose all credibility on the foreign policy stage by not saying anything against the violent crackdowns on peaceful U.S. citizens and we don't know it. It's not like she really has the power to force him to speak out or to speak out by herself over him, so we will never know until the end of his presidency.

Nonetheless, she should "pressure" him hard. That's her job after all.

[tabasco]

107. That poster responded in another thread that Hillary was "smart"

to be keeping her mouth shut because Obama is her boss.

[DonCoquixote]

125. which poster

not me.

[Mimosa]

3. If our choice is between Obama and Newt or Mitt, we'd better get more enthusiastic

President Obama is disappointing. But Rethugs would be LETHAL fascists.

[MADem]

4. +1. The GOP would certainly give us something to cry about. nt

[Donnachaidh]

92. uhh, all the capitulating gave us something to cry about

Do you *honestly* think we'll get less of the same with a second term?

The only people who seem to be actually *fighting BACK* are members of Congress. Obama's not done much in terms of truly doing something of SUBSTANCE for the middle class.

[MADem]

99. Yes, I do. The second term is the legacy-building one.

Look to history--it is always thus.

No one will be running for reelection in the Executive Branch.

[sendero]

122. Obama .

... does not deserve a second term and I won't be surprised if he doesn't. Nor will I care, as he's done almost nothing I wanted done. All he is doing is smearing the Democratic brand.

[MADem]

159. It is my ardent wish that you are stunningly and overwhelming wrong about that.

You'll have something to really cry about if a Perry or a Romney gets to choose the next couple of Supreme Court justices.

[Bluesbreaker]

193. The only possible reason to vote for Obama

[cui bono]

130. Problem is what will his legacy be??? The best far right wing president ever?

He's already the best right of center president ever. GOP has made out like bandits during his first term while he shifted the entire political discussion right of center.

[MADem]

158. He will, I hope, have four more years to try and please you. NT

[cui bono]

174. Doubt it. I'm not the GOP or a Teabagger. n/t

[MADem]

175. Neither is he. Don't let your perfect be the enemy of the good. NT

[bhikkhu]

117. There was some capitulation on the part of the voters in the mid-terms

who swept the GOP back into power two short years after they collapsed the economy. I still have trouble wrapping my mind around that one...

[CaliforniaPeggy]

5. He's not saying that we shouldn't vote for Obama...

Just that he is disappointed in him, and that he sees him as irrelevant.

I feel the same...

I WILL vote for him. As you say, the Republicans would be LETHAL fascists.

[roguevalley]

25. what she said. vote holding my nose. I am a dem and don't apologize

for it nor do I willingly accept tawdry leadership with gratitude. He is irrelevant to the OWS and that is a fact. the only thing that keeps him from being irrelevant to everyone else is newt et al.

[cui bono]

132. But why is a GOP president such a threat when all we hear on here is Obama couldn't do anything

because of the GOP congress? I might rather see a GOP president with a Dem congress. Let them see we won't just take what we're given, we'll keep asking for what we want.

I think we need an Occupy candidate. They would catapult up the charts right now. If there were someone electable, with standing in this country but outside of the political game, and they spoke all the truths about the power and corruption running rampant I think they might be able to win. And I don't think they would only be getting votes from the left.

[TBF]

66. Exactly - agree 100%. nt

[oldlib]

69. I agree.

Obama is not what I had expected. He is ,however, our only
choice, as the alternative is grim. 

[Fokker Trip]

139. This is what the corporate leaders want you to think.

Grimness is coming whoever you vote for, the fact that no leader is addressing cilmate change will ensure that.

Dem or Repuke, at this point there is almost no difference between them on the major issues. The Democrats will talk a more humane game, but the result will be the same.

[Bluesbreaker]

194. It's a ruse

Obama has never done anything for the progressive cause when there was a discernable corporate interest at stake. The social issues merely sucker each party's followers to vote in a way that is not in their economic interest, but in the interest of the wealthy and corporations. Anti-gay, anti-abortion Republicans wrangle the votes of those social conservatives who are suffering under GOP pro-Wall Street policies. Likewise Obama's pulling the plug on DOMA, supporting gays in the military and being pro-choice make liberals overlook his horrendous record on everything he's done for corporations at the expense of consumers, teachers, 90% of taxpayers, the middle class and the poor.

[JFN1]

11. I am truly beginning to wonder if it matters, given the outright control of the 1%...

I think the capitalist state posing as our functional Democracy is near its end. Yes, the end will indeed be swifter and very, very harsh, if the Repubs win, but I don't find the certain slow and lingering death rattle the Dems label "governing," to be any more comforting...

[tblue]

22. So true This slow death is torture. We've been had.

It was Obama's election that bought the destroyers time. It kept us occupied for a long time, and we have been so patient and forgiving of our president. Know what I mean?

[Kaleko]

34. Yes, I know exactly what you mean.

And I agree with you.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JFN1]

30. Damn skippy.

I read somewhere over the last few days the opinion that "Get a job!" has become the new "Let them eat cake!"

[roguevalley]

31. or as newt the skank said: Get a job and a bath. Like he can

wash the skank off his sorry carcass.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PETRUS]

53. You know what I hate?

Well, maybe hate is a strong word. How about, you know what I find frustrating? When people totally misunderstand (misrepresent?) the methodology and implications of the rankings www.doingbusiness.org

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Voting is irrelevant

I will vote for this guy, but I do not expect any change from DC. The change will come from the streets.

By the way, if you read some history into the history of social movements in this country you will realize why.

But at this point... the election is just not relevant... truly.

In fact the media should give up the stupid show of the Republican Primary and actually do it's job, but in a country with freedom of the press in number 38 (and falling) that is owned by corporations, I don't expect that media to do it's job.

I will be there to vote, kind of what you do, even in a dictablanda, but enthusiasm... just not there.

[Mimosa]

20. Nadia, I do understand.

Things now look so bad and appear headed for worse. :(

But even when the choices are limited we should still exercise our rights as citizens.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Why I said I will vote

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

116. +1 googool n/t

[Owlet]

60. Yup..

"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." Emma Goldman

Read more:

[treestar]

106. No change will come "from the streets"

Again, a lazy shortcut.

If Obama can't be a dictator, then we'll make it come "from the streets."

No campaigning and all that hard work for us. We'll just expect a short cut somehow. There's got to be a better way than all that hard work. :sarcasm:

[a simple pattern]

109. Yeah, that's it

those protestors are in the streets getting beaten and pepper sprayed because they're lazy.

ps you're disgusting

[cui bono]

133. Protesting is a short cut? WTF are you talking about???

:crazy:

[woo me with science]

141. What utter crap.

Same old song.

[tabasco]

113. Must be nice to be so comfortable

that you won't suffer under republican rule.

[Name removed]

120. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

135. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CoffeeCat]

74. Oh, so we're suppose to vote for Fascist Lite?

I am so sick and tired of people making this argument--that a Republican
would be so much worse.

Sorry. I don't want to operate like a stupid sheep--in a country where my choices
are:

1.) We slowly slide into Fascism
2.) We quickly slide into Fascism.

That's pathetic and sad, and anyone who accepts this reality is lazy.

It's time for something new. That something new is OWS--they are the only organized effort
that represents the interest of "We The People". Our elected representatives serve their
corporate masters and make decisions based on what is best for corporations and profit--and
if those decision kill us (healthcare) or bankrupt us (Wall Street) or plunder our
treasure (continuous, neocon wars) then our politicians say, "Too bad for you, American citizens!"

If our choices are--Fascism Lite or Fascism--then it's OUR FAULT and OUR RESPONSIBILITY to demand
that our leaders represent us--and that we change this perverted form of democracy that
has mutated into a grotesque cancer on our nation!

Step outside of the box and think for yourself!

[Lorien]

90. +1 nt

[Donnachaidh]

93. what CC said above! +100000! n/t

[chervilant]

103. Indeed!

Those of us who are participating in #Occupy (even from afar!) can use consensus decision-making to select and endorse a candidate for POTUS (or a POTUS committee of leaders, as might be more appropriate for so large a body politic). We can collectively and unanimously write-in our candidate's name (candidates' names). We can (and ARE) being the change we hope to see in this world!

(Frankly, I am suspicious of any candidate who is raking in enormous sums of money from the corporate megalomaniacs and their sock puppet lobbyists...)

[bengalherder]

131. Damn right! +1000! n/t

[cui bono]

136. The 99% should all write in "no confidence" for president.

Or something like that. Or not vote at all for that office. I don't know. Something that would show we know it is all a sham. We came out and we didn't like anyone so do something about it or govern while the whole world sees you are not legitimate and the people do not approve of you and the way you do business.

[xiamiam]

140. I agree..there is enough time for someone to emerge to speak for the majority of us

that person is not currently in public office..may be running or planning on running..but does not hold public office..we need to vote them all out and by the time next fall comes around..that just might happen..it just might

[woo me with science]

142. Well said. nt

[stockholmer]

180. +1000,substantiative positive change in the US will NEVER occur under the current sham 2 party syste...

The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to the doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can "throw the rascals out" at any election without leading to any profound or extreme shifts in policy.

- Carrol Quigley, Tragedy and Hope (1966)


PDf's

http://www.tranquility.net/~rwinkel/911/TragedyAndHope.pdf

or

http://avaxhome.ws/ebooks/history_military/TragedyAndHope.html

[Marr]

104. Is the president helpless without massive majorities in both houses of Congress or not?

I get so tired of this back and forth. When we're talking about Obama's actions (and inactions), we're supposed to believe the president is helpless without the entire government under his party's control. Then elections roll around and suddenly the presidency is an all-powerful dictatorial seat, that must be kept from the evil Brand X, at all costs.

Which is it?

[cui bono]

137. Exactly what I've just been saying. You can't have it both ways.

Unless you are an Obama apologist living in fear.

[immoderate]

110. You prefer a kinder, gentler fascism?

The president, my senator, and rep are all, how you say, republican light. DINOs.

Why should I vote? Change, as always, will come from the streets, the Democrats just prolong the agony.

--imm

[julian09]

145. Start bitching to your Dino reps or primary them

The guy that made a fool of Fox news; when they thought they had a dummy, speaking for OWS, was on MSNBC yesterday and said it's time to get rid of the Dinos give Obama a
congress he can work with. He named Sen Nelson DINO NEB. Obama can only play the cards he is dealt, losing Kennedy seat was a killer in senate. Obama has no vote in congress, just a pen to sign or veto legislation.

[immoderate]

148. Nobody runs against Debbie W-S.

She heard from me many times.

--imm

[Admiral Loinpresser]

114. Obama is also lethal.

Ever hear of climate change?

[Fokker Trip]

149. Exactly, couldn't agree more.

Why do Obama supporters not get this?, its their children's futures that are on the line. Not future careers, but future ability to survive at all as the climate goes bat-shit crazy.

They so want to believe in this savior figure that they ignore reality.

[Bluesbreaker]

192. Really?

I would prefer to vote my conscience. Obama merely puts an attractive veneer on the same pro-corporate policies the GOP supports. He's no better than the Republicans on environment, civil liberties, regulation of Wall Street, tax breaks for the wealthy and a dozen other issues. In fact, he's worse on many.

[tabatha]

6. Obama is highly relevant ONLY

if he has a congress to work with.

I liked this quote on DU earlier

"Trying to work with the GOP today is like trying to be reasonable with Ted Bundy"

[Angry Dragon]

12. I need to ask you a question

I have a different view of the President that differs from many on DU
I can only view the President in the way that I would act in his position
So are you saying it is okay for the President to give up if he does not have a Congress to work with??

[tabatha]

24. Obama does not give up.

But he cannot pass what the country needs because the Republicans are doing everything they can to stop him.

That is why he first offered up a complete jobs bill.
When that failed, he broke it up into smaller pieces, and only one of those pieces passed.

I am sure when he returns from taking care of other obligations, he will try a different tack.

[Angry Dragon]

27. You and I have completely different views on giving up

but that is okay

[JDPriestly]

45. He did not have to go out of his way to get the US entangled in more

damaging trade agreements.

Those trade agreements serve the interests of the 1%, not of the 99%.

This trip to Asia has been a service to the 1%, not to the rest of us.

[Enthusiast]

82. Why would Obama have agreed to trade agreements

that 80% of the American people oppose?

I think Obama is far worse that we know. The PTB keep it hidden from us. Obama criticism from the right is no more than a smoke screen. Make a bunch of smoke then enact right wing policy -just like Bill Clinton.

[JDPriestly]

96. Quite possibly.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

62. He can try to compromise! That would be new!

Imagine him reaching out to the poor, disaffected, ignored, and penitent GOP, trying to find some common ground in good faith, listening to their demands and adopting them wholesale,as a means to befriend them. Imagine!

[woo me with science]

143. No, he doesn't "give up."

He actively pursues Republican policies.

[FedUp_Queer]

157. Are you kidding?

a "complete jobs bill?" His "jobs bill" was too small at best. It was something, yes, but complete? Remember, it was a slew of low effect tax cuts and credits that he claimed were GOP policies. A "complete jobs bill" would be another New Deal where we rebuild our country while at the same time putting people to work. This president has failed to ever produce a "complete" or "comprehensive" anything. Every time I hear the blame the GOP, all I can wonder is this: remember those first two years when he controlled it all...House, Senate AND Presidency? The toadies said that wasn't enough. Now the toadies blame the GOP. That's fine, that's probably accurate, but when are the toadies going to finally admit that, as a leader, Obama has been a miserable failure. For him "compromise" is an end of itself. For everybody else, compromise is a tactic. Finally, I keep hearing how much worse it will be with Mitt or Newt or Doc or Dopey or whatever GOPer wins. Let's ask this: what exactly about the wars, the national security state, the tax cuts for the rich, the indefinite detention, the rendition, the deportations, the secret prisons, the military commissions, the lack of unemployment benefits has actually changed from when Bush was in office versus now? Given the facts, can anyone actually believe the meme that "if THEY get elected, it will be SO MUCH WORSE??" To turn it around: "since HE was elected is it SO MUCH BETTER?"

[roguevalley]

28. he had one in 2008-2010 and he didn't do shit. JOBS were needed

but he went after a legacy project, healthcare. Every other dem president who had blue dogs kicked their ass to death. He didn't. he's above such shit but unfortunately those starving in this country -1 in 3 kids- aren't. that is his shame but he doesn't even recognize its his. TOo bad. So much promise wasted.

[tabatha]

35. He did not.

Blue dogs prevented it.

[roguevalley]

38. bullshit. i am old enough to remember blue and yellow dogs

and DEM presidents RUNNING OVER THEIR BUTTS. Obama doesn't argue or get into it. "NO DRAMA OBAMA". Its a cop out and a cheap dismissal to always blame others for his cowardice. How is it that its ALWAYS everyone elses fault and not his? Jeez. Sounds like Dumbya apologists.

[cui bono]

138. +1000 Bushies in drag. Or something like that. n/t

[_ed_]

68. Always an excuse for not getting the job done

God, I'm sick of people whining how the most powerful man in the world just can't get anything done because of a few "Blue Dogs." What a joke.

[tabatha]

100. I think Rachel Maddow understands what Obama is up against

more than you.

[_ed_]

179. Yes, I'm sure a corporate media star like Maddow

working for the Comcast corporation and formerly working for the GE corporation really cares about informing people about politics.

"If a corporate media star says it, it must be true."

[chervilant]

172. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight....

...just keep telling yourself that. Damn those all-powerful Blue Dogs!!!

[Enthusiast]

84. He had one of the most powerful mandates in history

and certainly the greatest mandate in recent history. Dubya Bush stole an election and came to office claiming he had a mandate. Obama had this massive mandate and came to office acting as if he had no mandate.

[russspeakeasy]

185. Had it and pissed it away.

What a complete waste of opportunity and money and lives and emotions.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

154. Putting Congress aside,

he has been so wrong on so many crucial executive issues such as Copenhagen 2009, Afghanistan, mercenaries, torture, BP drilling, XL pipeline, torture, habeas corpus, to name a few, that I oftentimes have trouble seeing him as better than Bush. So on issues where he is directly relevant, I am extremely disappointed.

[Electric Monk]

7. HOPE v2.0

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2343375&mesg_id=2343375

[roguevalley]

29. awesome pic. isn't it amazing how many people see what is

happening and the pollyanna brigade just can't bring themselves to see anything wrong in his style. always someone else's fault. Sad.

[Divernan]

63. The One Percent can always afford to bribe/hire servants to play Obama's fools

.......

[woo me with science]

144. +100000 nt

[bengalherder]

147. I get a chuckle out of the ZOMG! Guy Fawkes!!11!11 brigade.

It recent use comes from Alan Moore's graphic Novel and the movie based on it.

There is also an implicit reference to 'Guy Fawkes Day', one of staid England's most riotous, anarchic, and subversive holidays.

None of which has much to do with the historical Guy, no more than 'Robin Hood', that popular inverter of cash flow, probably has much to do with whoever the semi-historic 'Robin of Locksley' was or was modelled on.

[Hutzpa]

9. I don't agree with this kind of discuss

because when I look at the alternative I see low down dirty scoundrel waiting to
demolish everything good about this country.

[JFN1]

14. Versus, what?

The slower, yet just as certain, "unhappiness" brought about by weak-kneed platitudes, defensive compromises, and passionless capitulation?

[Hutzpa]

81. To the uninitiated

Obama's action can be seen as what you have listed, to those that are paying close attention
it is the opposite, we understand how republicans with the aid of some democrats have been
blocking every piece of legislation put forward by this president.

[Angry Dragon]

15. Right now Obama is the best presidential candiate out there

however that does not mean he is good for the country or the democratic party

[tblue]

18. You think they aren't already?

The point is the POTUS, THE PRESIDENT OF THE FREAKING UNITED STATES is either powerless or complicit. He's the one allowing the scoundrels to demolish everything good. If you were president, would you let them do that?

I don't blame you, Hutzpa. It took me a while to wrap my brain around it too.

[Response]

42. Powerless or complicit.

The President didn't have to give the republicans any continuation for the tax breaks for the wealthy. The GOP is the same party that spent years and millions looking for anything to sink President Clinton. Why should they ever be trusted, ever?

So is President Obama Powerless or complicit?

[CoffeeCat]

77. What do you think is happening NOW?

Everything good about this country--is being abolished--NOW.

Obama is not stopping it.

The corporations have so much power--and are only gaining power.

Obama is not stopping it. He has participated in it, and continues to
participate in it.

I don't hear one word from him about corporations being too powerful. We're
in crisis here--and he's silently participating in the slide toward Fascism.

[steelmania75]

10. Obama hasn't been relevant since he failed to take a stand and call the GOP's bluff over the debt

ceiling. He's only concerned about re-election at this point, not the needs of the American people.

[Sheepshank]

17. I don't think the GOP was bluffing...they would have let the US go into default.....

...they hate Obama *that* much.

I also believe they would have let millions of unemployed Americans go with out a dime for food or rent if the Bush taxes were allowed to expire on the first go around.

They are quite nasty.

[tblue]

47. I just heard someone in the super committee

say the President is not at all involved in their meetings. He is so odd for some reason. I really think he doesn't know how to president.

[spanone]

83. you didn't hear it all then, john kerry said the republicans ASKED Obama to not get involved

so as to keep politics out of it....

[tblue]

16. He's just not that into us.

I'm planning on devoting as much time to his campaign as he spends defending OWS. That's the deal. The ball is in his court.

[SammyWinstonJack]

72. He's just not that into us...The mistake was thinking he ever was.

(

[Bodhi BloodWave]

156. and if/when Obama starts to defend/support OWS loudly then i bet 2/3rd of the people

currently yelling for him to get involved will turn on a dime and start accusing him of trying to co-opt the movement for his political ends(as was the view of many OWS supporters back when the movement started and some Obama supporters suggested him getting involved)

So exactly what do the OWS supporters on DU want, do they want him to get involved or do they want him to stay away. They can't have it both ways which they seem to want currently.

[Kablooie]

19. He will go down in history as the great observer.

Society goes through a seismic shift on his watch and he quietly watches it pass by as an uninvolved bystander.

My real fear is that he takes up protection of the 1%.
He has often tended to lean that direction up to now.

[gkhouston]

23. President placeholder. A cardboard cut-out would be as useful. n/t

[cui bono]

167. He already is protecting the 1%. And before that he invited them into the WH.

He is the 1%.

[cliffordu]

32. Yet another driveby smear.

Must be nice to live in the prefecture of the perfect.

I'm thinking you're the one lacking relevance.

:hurts:

[Hardrada]

36. Oh?

[cliffordu]

37. OH!!!

[roguevalley]

39. cliffordu, I love ya but how is it always someone else's fault

and never his? excuses up the wazoo. people will vote for him because the alternative is too awful but relevance and belief are more than he deserves in the eyes of zillions of people. IMO, of course. :)

[Response]

43. My concern is that the independents will not vote

along with enough of a percentage of the Dems and other progressives. The USA needs some kind of action that is beneficial to the people, or the people might just say FU! and stay home on election day.

[cliffordu]

48. Name ONE thing he can do except make sound bites.

It's the nature of the beast. MIght make us all feel better, but just makes the movement about him rather than us.

It is unfortunate that Bush had a slavering, mongrel cur congress enacting just about everything that fucking idiot uttered.

Made people believe the PREZ actually has power.

Obama could grab the narrative, of course, if he was more bellicose than the dickheads on Fox news,

Then we have the "angry black revolutionary" narrative....

And, where it really counts - in actually running the country,

Obama has NO real support for ANYTHING he wants in congress. They are not worth a shit.

Witness the blue dogs who fuck him (and you) at every turn.

OK - now for what I feel.....

Voting the man in wasn't a panacea for ANY of the things I am interested in changing. He is NOT a silver bullet -

Just the dude that inherited the most completely fucked up America in the history of the world. We are real close to being a third world shithole.

The minute he opens his mouth about OWD it becomes about HIM (like healthcare stopped being about us and became "Obamacare" in the media .

Since then, our healthcare doesn't matter anymore,. The ENTIRE media narrative is just about the effort to reverse what the president attached his name to)

Again, we mean shit. He DIDN't do that, the media did.

And just because he isn't holding my hand and telling me I'm on the right track for everything I want means exactly nothing, he needs MY support, I don't need his..


And I don't care if folks think I'm wrong about 90% of this.


*******

He is light years better than ANY FUCKING REPUBLICAN EVER SHIT OUT OF THE KOCH BROTHER'S SPHINCTERS.

I support him for that if nothing else.

Mother fuck me, I cannot BELIEVE the resistance he has endured, the character assassinations, the veiled urge for his death by FUCKING LEGISLATORS AND THE TALKING HEADS.

Finally:

Even if you think he's a failure,

At times, we all have to vote, and supporting the lesser -damage- might have to be the best thing we do in the ballot box. We all might have to go to the barricades to make the real point.

Can you do that?? Can WE do that???


*********

I like him. I support him. And I don't give a shit who doesn't like it.

YMMV.

And, as a brief aside -

My family believes me a shallow, gutless failure too, but, really, I believe they are morons.

So, I guess it's a wash.

[JFN1]

55. I see a courageous, articulate, and passionate individual in you -

Does your family know they don't have to smoke crack, 'cause they must be hitting it, if they make you feel that way.

I hear what you're saying, but I still feel a majority of Dems - you included, sorry - are still in denial about exactly where we do stand, and just how quickly Obama fell apart in the face of Repub fury - almost, like immediately.

I saw a poll last night (somewhere, was right before bed and I didn't store it) that said 59% of Americans do not believe Mr. Obama will be re-elected.

Look at our history: "Weak" Presidents, do NOT get re-elected.

The public perceived Jimmy Carter as weak, due to Reagan's nefarious campaigning, and consequently, he served only one term.

But Obama is facing not only a nefarious media and Republican Party...he IS WEAK! He caves and capitulates and starts his negotiations WITH concessions!

Totally. Weak.

What Obama has been doing, and, based on his job performance thus far, what he will continue to do if re-elected, cannot be proven, IMHO, to be any less destructive than what the Repubs are doing, since HE IS ALREADY DOING WHAT THEY WANT ANYWAY!!

You know SCOTUS will overturn the Health Care Act - not because in is unConstitutional, but because they can - and THAT was a total fuck up for Obama, right out of the gate! He gave away single payer without so much as a wimper!

The architect of the Health Care Act said in an interview a few days ago that the Act was good - not as good as single payer - but he is frustrated by what he fears (knows!) the Robert's court will do to it.

Epically. Weak.

I just don't see this slow death as an advantage over the quicker one we'll get from the Repubs.

Not saying I want it quicker, either - but I think we need to get real here, about what our chances are, and what victory will actually mean in 2012.

It won't "make things better" - and this, by your own admission.

ALL an Obama victory - MIGHT - might, do, is slow the destruction down - but it won't stop it. Obama is not, in reality, "light years better" - he's just a "different vehicle," to the same rotten destination...

And finally, please, please, please remember - your wisdom, intelligence, experience, perspective, and passion - are NEEDED out here! Don't let ANYONE - family, friend, enemy, or stranger - ever convince you otherwise! These are not just words, coming from me here - the little guys below, and I, mean it when we say:

:yourock: :yourock: :yourock:

[Bluenorthwest]

67. He opposes our right to marry. Says God agrees with him.

NT

[ecstatic]

76. That's not true. He's voiced

support for LGBT rights, including civil unions, and plans to sign any law passed by congress that strikes down DOMA.

[Bluenorthwest]

161. He opposes marriage equality, and says he does so because

he is a Christian. Sorry, you are flat out wrong. Civil Unions are not equality, and it is fucking insulting that you'd try to foist that shit right in my face. Take your Civil Unions and your utter mendacity to Church, kid. You are misinformed. Go look it up, or shut up.
So sick of the arrogance of the straight community. Such appalling apathy.

[onpatrol98]

146. I think you're awesome, Clifford!

I'm disappointed. But, not to the point where I couldn't vote for him.

[russspeakeasy]

186. I really enjoyed reading that. I don't agree, but it was a damn

good rant..:toast:

[Hardrada]

41. OMG!

You're up late.

[cliffordu]

49. Party all night long, baybeees.

[JFN1]

44. Who's doing the drive-by smearing aroud here?

I gave you just about 400 words explaining my position - and you offer me, what - 20ish? And all of them dedicated, to use your word, to "smearing" my integrity for daring to post what I consider to be a cogent and rational opinion?

Okay, tell you what. Let's level the playing field - I figure you owe me about 380 words of explanation as to why you see my position as a "drive-by smear."

And if you are not up to it, then perhaps, to paraphrase, before you complain about the specks in my eyes, maybe you should take the BLINDERS off yours, and give me more to go on than a kick in the face...

[tblue]

46. I have yet to see any real defense of Obama.

The attempts are either

1) The alternative is scary.
2) He's not responsible.
3) Read the laundry "list" I want you to read. (But ignore the one I don't want you to read.)
4) You are a hater.

The defenders could post just the number of the defense (1-4) and save us all some time.

[cliffordu]

50. See #39

Way ahead of your request.

[JTFrog]

79. +1000 n/t

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Prometheus Bound]

54. Don't quote Thomas Carlyle. He was kind of a right-wing jerk, wasn't he?

[JFN1]

56. So? Words of wisdom come from genuinely surprising places.

HAnd the guy is dead 200+ years - I don't know his politics, don't care, insofar as the quote seems like honest wisdom, and it also fits my argument pretty damn well. And, after seeing "No-Gaffe" Bachmann claim godly perfection, this particular quote sure seems humble for a right-winger...

[Prometheus Bound]

57. I don't know how he used that quote.

It may have been in one of his anti-democracy or racist rants.

[midnight]

58. Not only are they duty bound to protect the constitution, but

they are duty bound to create full employment during an economic crisis... One that they were aware of from day one...

[Major Hogwash]

59. Politicizing OWS is not what WE want!!

Evidently this is the hardest thing for people to understand -- this goes beyond partisan politics!!

[Cherchez la Femme]

73. No, but verbal support would be appreciated.

Obama's just triangulating as usual, which doesn't speak well at all for him.

[cui bono]

168. Supporting people's right to protest peacefully is not politicizing OWS.

It's protecting and preserving the constitution which is what we pay him to do.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sulphurdunn]

64. Kurt Vonnegut

wrote a novel called player piano in 1952. It described a corporate state in which the President was just a pitch man for Wall Street. Ronald Reagan was the first professional pitch man president. Every Prez since has tried to follow his act.

[Enthusiast]

85. Plus one! nt

[Poll_Blind]

94. +1

Excellent novel.

PB

[hulka38]

65. A great post!

[CoffeeCat]

70. Obama made himself irrelevant...

...by utterly and completely failing to address our nation's most serious issues.

Corporate money and power hold unprecedented influence over our elected leaders--and Obama
has done nothing but empower the corporations MORE and give them more and more of what
they want.

The health-insurance industry got exactly what they wanted--our broken, profit-centric
model of healthcare preserved to further their greed.

The military-industrial complex got more and more war--the neocons could not be more
thrilled with Obama.

Big Oil and Big Energy won big time--when Obama didn't hold BP accountable for their
disgusting environmental disaster.

Big Pharma does whatever the hell they want--dispensing harmful drugs that cause
horrendous side effects and even death--being overseen by an impotent, laughable FDA
that is stocked with industry lobbyists.

Big corporations and the rich still don't pay their fair share--while Obama talks about
the poor, the elderly and the vulnerable "making sacrifices" with possible cuts in
social programs--during a time with so much economic suffering.

OWS was born--in large part--because Obama appears to be irrelevant to any meaningful
change that is desperately needed in this country.

[KoKo]

127. +!!!!!!!!!!

[russspeakeasy]

187. Yes. OWS was necessary, because Mr. O. can't, or won't

do what is necessary.

[Magoo48]

71. The world outside DC is really roiling and churning and gaining speed.

DC is blind, paralyzed, impotent, and more and more irrelevant with each passing day.

[ecstatic]

75. Then why are you and other haters so obsessed with him?

Seems like a waste of time to constantly be furious with someone who is...irrelevant? :shrug:

[dameocrat67]

124. cuz he is wasting space that could be used by someone

that really represents us. the office is not irrelevent. he is deliberately selling us out. that is probably why the corporatists funded him.

[Autumn]

78. Obama is getting us right where the republicans want us

but in a kinder, gentler way. K/R

[TNLib]

80. IMHO all politicians are irrelevant to OWS

Similar to how middle management is irrelevant in most corporations. Our Representatives are basically just foot soldiers for the elite.

[dionysus]

86. if obama spoke out in favor of OWS, the same people who demand he'd get involved would *immediately*

start screaming that he was trying to co-opt it for political gain.

more of the "just pretty speeches" crap. this little game is stale...

[Amonester]

91. He shouldn't speak out in favor of OWS, but he should speak out

against the violent crackdowns on peaceful U.S. citizens or he'll lose credibility to speak out against all crackdowns worldwide.

The consequence of his silence is dire. They will say he has no right to lecture them if he doesn't even speak out against the violence in his own country.

The State Dept. (Hilary) should be "screaming" on the phone until he does. That's her job!

[cui bono]

170. Exactly. He spoke out very clearly in favor of the people of Egypt.

Not so much for his own people. Hypocrite.

[Union Scribe]

162. Stale? You use that moldy-ass talking point and call the OP stale?

No wonder people don't take some of you seriously.

[Lorien]

87. K & R. Well put! nt

[Arkana]

95. The right wing noise machine thanks you for perpetuating yet another bullshit meme.

[CoffeeCat]

115. Standing up against corporatist Dems...

...has nothing to do with the right wing.

Expressing a lack of appreciation for Dems, including Obama--who stand around doing
nothing while corporations hijack our government--is the honorable thing to do.

[cui bono]

171. When they really should be thanking you for your blindness and aid in

getting them everything they want.

[bvar22]

97. It didn't have to be that way.

Obama's Army, Jan. 20th, 2009

CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN!
YES. WE. CAN!!!




Instead, Obama's Army is marching without him.

How sad is that?
He coulda been a contender.






You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

101. I believe it was "Yes WE can"

Not "Yes I can."

[Name removed]

173. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[snot]

102. Nice!

[jpak]

98. Obama 2012 - cuz its relevant

yup

[treestar]

105. He is entirely relevant to those who are complaining that

he is not saying what they want him to say!

If he were irrelevant, we wouldn't hear about that.

[Union Scribe]

163. Keep repeating that.

I'm sure we'll all see the light soon, sit down and start licking envelopes for campaign donations.

[treestar]

178. Plenty of people will

Not everyone is obsessed with defeating him.

[russspeakeasy]

190. What ?

[DeSwiss]

108. K&R n/t

[Peregrine Took]

111. I heard the same thing about a recent progressives's seminar.

When asked what they were saying about Obama - the answer was that they weren't saying anything. His name simply didn't come up.

[Number23]

112. What EXACTLY are you trying to say here?

President Obama is trying to juggle his performace against his promises, while riding a bipartisan unicycle on a Republican tightrope 8 miles above the rest of us; it would actually be a miracle if he had any relevance to #OWS, given where his thoughts and deeds seem to be centered, so far and above the rest of us.

Between the metaphors, allegories, analogies and conundrums (not to mention typos) I honestly can't figure out what this is supposed to mean.

But the country has changed significantly in the last 10 days, and Mr. Obama is not returning to the same America he left, so short a time ago.

Is this about OWS? I read American and international news every single day of every single week. DU is BY FAR the only place that seems to consider this the top news item in the world right now, and the international press was covering OWS before the American press was.

The only item I've seen on Occupy in the last week or so outside of DU was the news that Occupy London had 'occupied' an abandoned building. That's it. And that was in an Australian publication. OWS is exciting and brimming with potential, but I don't think the rest of the world views it at the Story of All Stories the way that DU apparently does.

[MissDeeds]

118. Rec #100 n/t

[lindalou65]

119. I respectfully disagree with you

I would like to see how you or anyone else would handle this nation and all its problems right now. If you decide he is "irrelevant" then that is your choice but I woud venture to say, millions of Americans strongly disagree!

[SidDithers]

121. unrec twinkles...nt

Sid

[Name removed]

164. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluenorthwest]

165. 139 recs as I post this, by the way....

Majority rules. And we get to vote fer real.

[SidDithers]

176. Ain't democracy grand...nt

Sid

[Divine Discontent]

123. our pres, is a hundred times better than B*sh any day, however, why else do you the crackdown on OWS

happened while he was away?



Get it now, or one of a million other designs! http://www.zazzle.com/republicans_2012_keeping_millions_out_of_work_bumper_sticker-128659602907896843?rf=238107662556833486

[Fokker Trip]

150. Is this sarcastic?

Hundred times better than Bush. Ummmm. No.

[provis99]

155. hyperbole much? Obama isn't even a hundred times better than Clinton.

[KoKo]

126. He's truly NOT the ISSUE...Whether he or Crazy Repugs are Elected in 2012

...None of them are even worth bothering with. It's the MOVEMENT that's important.

Too many have worked too long and hard and found that calling Congress, Signing Petitions, Showing up for the "A.N.S.W.E.R and United for Peace" Protests only led to ridicule by folks on our Dem Left, Middle and Right and the Far Right Repugs.

So...what was left. What was left was to find a NEW WAY...through more spaghetti against the wall of Corporate Greed and hope that eventually something will stick.

[Chef Eric]

128. K&R. I like that quote by Tommy C. nt

[Name removed]

129. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lib2DaBone]

134. Obama is no friend of progressives... or working people.. or families...

Obama is a DINO. Sorry.. I have to tell the truth...

[Terry in Austin]

151. "Relevance" - very important idea

The term cropped up a lot early in the Movement years of the 1960's, and it's cropping up again. I think that's a good sign.

The president is irrelevant to the same extent that the whole Washington government is irrelevant. The whole thing is broken.

The very fact that that Wall Street is the target of occupation says that Washington isn't the target. In short, it's irrelevant.

Brilliant, OWSers!

:yourock:

[polichick]

152. "Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me."

Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)

[paulkienitz]

153. just one of many nonrelevancies

which is why I've been saying for some time now that the 2012 election isn't about the presidency, it's about who we bring in to Congress. That's the front on which some change is achievable.

[piratefish08]

160. words matter.

"So I want to be very clear in calling upon the Egyptian authorities to refrain from any violence against peaceful protestors. The people of Egypt have rights that are universal. That includes the right to peaceful assembly and association, the right to free speech, and the ability to determine their own destiny. These are human rights. And the United States will stand up for them everywhere."

President Barack Obama - Jan 28, 2011

[abelenkpe]

166. Chances are great that the economy is about to take a new dive

Shortly. It will do much to reveal the character of those in power.

[summerintx]

169. "Not Disappointed in Obama"

A friend sent this Youtube link today. The speaker, author Jake Lamar, gives a well-reasoned argument.

As for OWS, the President has expressed his understanding of the frustrations of those Occupying, respected their issues, and never once made a derogatory remark about the protesters, unlike the Repugs. He is clearly listening, and his America Can't Wait approach is almost certainly a response. The jobs proposals address many of the issues as well.

Your expectations may have been unrealistic given the evidence of his natural temperament and the way he conducts himself in office. He has supported OWS to the extent I hoped he would - and it looks like the feds are not the ones cracking down on OWS in several cities.

[Safetykitten]

177. Not only is he not relevant, he is in a legacy building mode of failure.

His legacy will be one of irrelevance overall, and a hands off approach to the economy and the economic disasters coming our way as I type.

He is kinda like a Democratic Calvin Coolidge.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

181. Obama is running the country; OWS can only achieve anything if it becomes relevant to politicians.

Obama doesn't *need* to be relevant to OWS - he's running the country, and his mandate or lack thereof comes from elections, not from a protest movement.

If OWS wants to achieve anything (which I'm not convinced it does; I think that for a lot of people it appears to be an end in itself rather than a method of achieving change) then *it* needs to make itself relevant to elected officials, not the other way round. That's basically a matter of being able to influence voting patterns, I think, and I'm not convinced the occupy movement has that.

Supporters of OWS dismissing Obama as irrelevant are like... well, there are a number of insulting metaphors I could pick, but "not terribly significant things displaying their lack of perspective by dismissing a very significant thing as less significant than themselves" will do.

[lillypaddle]

182. You're irrelevant nt

[DisgustipatedinCA]

183. that's all you had to bring?

I don't really think the OP was trying to argue from a position of power or fame. The OP was, rather, talking about a famous and powerful person. And you didn't like that. So you reached into your bag of 2nd grade tricks, and, voila. Here we are. Thanks. This helps me to continue to sharpen my focus.

[lillypaddle]

191. glad I could help

you sharpen your "focus."

[certainot]

184. it sounds like you're blaming obama for the left's own collective failure to recognize the right's

best weapon and do something about it, if not for obama and dems benefit, not even for OWS.

this is politics, and the left lets the right control messaging .

they get to have it both ways as long as the left gives the RW radio monopoly a free speech free ride on 1000 radio stations, reaching 50 mil a week.

for expect obama to associate himself with the 'urine soaked hippies' and rapists and commie drug users aside from reiterating support for free speech, etc., is crazy.

Here's what Limbaugh said in first hour last wed morning....
praphrasing Limbaugh (whose parent stations WABC is at Penn Station, NYC)
xxxxxx'
Bloomberg liberated Zuccotti Park.
lousy hippies thieves rapists purse snatchers
sexually transmitted diseases, murder, filth, gunfire, scabies
The protestors are so used to urinating and defecating in the streets so when they go back home to their parents they might need to be housebroken again. They’re going to have to put some newspaper down.
endless parade of human debris,
whining little wimps
looking for free meals free drugs free sex
it was never big, never any public support, not the backbone of America
white house wanted bloomberg to get them out because it was one big ad for the dem party.
'xxxxxx

they have huge bucks and the biggest coordinated soapboxes in the history of humankind to take free potshots at OWS and obama and by ignoring that fact the left collectively cannot claim it ever got obama's back, or that of its progressive reps like alan grayson, and is now letting OWS down for the same reason.

[Rex]

188. He has the option.

[roman7]

189. wtf

what are all you repuke assholes doing on a demicratic platform?