My uncle worked as a school janitor. NO CHILD could do his job, not even in Japan.

[WinkyDink]

He had to, e.g., maintain the stadium bleachers; good luck with kids falling, etc.
He had perforce to work into the night, using machines (to clean the tile floors, e.g., in hallways and in classrooms, which entailed moving all the desks); fixing plumbing; changing the ceiling fluorescent lights (that would be on a ladder, kids); emptying wastebaskets into larger carts to push through the halls (speaking of which: anybody lately been inside a modern school? HUGE expanses of hallways. Older schools, of course, have stairs to climb.).

Whatever my uncle did required long hours on his feet. Good for the children?

But let me tell you the biggest PRACTICAL reason Newt SHOULD and children SHOULD NOT be school janitors (P.S. I thought the term was "custodians"?):
THE BATHROOMS. YOU CAN LET YOUR IMAGINATIONS RUN WILD AND STILL NOT "SEE" ALL MY UNCLE SAW---AND HAD TO CLEAN UP and/or FIX.

Perhaps Newtie is conjuring "only" the erasing and washing of blackboards?

This, of course, does not touch on the essential evil that is Newt Gingrich (perhaps he would have turned out differently had his surname been "Gingpoor"?) and his anti-working poor, anti-children, and anti-decency promotion---IN THE EXTREMELY DISINGENUOUS GUISE OF "PRIDE OF OWNERSHIP"---PUH-LEEZE---of the early days of the Industrial Revolution:

"During the Industrial Revolution, children as young as four were employed in production factories with dangerous, and often fatal, working conditions.<5> Based on this understanding of the use of children as labourers, it is now considered by wealthy countries to be a human rights violation, and is outlawed, while some poorer countries may allow or tolerate child labour. Child labour can also be defined as the full-time employment of children who are under a minimum legal age.

The Victorian era became notorious for employing young children in factories and mines and as chimney sweeps.<6> Child labour played an important role in the Industrial Revolution from its outset, often brought about by economic hardship, Charles Dickens for example worked at the age of 12 in a blacking factory, with his family in debtor's prison. The children of the poor were expected to help towards the family budget, often working long hours in dangerous jobs for low pay,<7> earning 10-20% of an adult male's wage. In England and Scotland in 1788, two-thirds of the workers in 143 water-powered cotton mills were described as children.<8> In 19th-century Great Britain, one-third of poor families were without a breadwinner, as a result of death or abandonment, obliging many children to work from a young age......
In coal mines, children would crawl through tunnels too narrow and low for adults.<9>

Children also worked as errand boys, crossing sweepers, shoe blacks, or selling matches, flowers and other cheap goods.<7> Some children undertook work as apprentices to respectable trades, such as building or as domestic servants (there were over 120,000 domestic servants in London in the mid-18th century). Working hours were long: builders worked 64 hours a week in summer and 52 in winter, while domestic servants worked 80 hour weeks.

Children as young as three were put to work. A high number of children also worked as prostitutes.<10> Many children (and adults) worked 16 hour days. As early as 1802 and 1819 Factory Acts were passed to regulate the working hours of workhouse children in factories and cotton mills to 12 hours per day."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_labour
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On what issue, pray, is a Republican NOT evil?

[dkf]

1. Mostly what my friends did was to stack the chairs to the side and sweep the place out and close up.

I think they had 2 rooms a piece. It wasn't a big deal.

[WinkyDink]

2. And you think THIS is Newt's plan?!

[meow2u3]

16. He wants to put little kids to work while their parents rot in debtor's prison

I wouldn't put it past that snake to bring back debtor's prison, criminalizing debt and utterly legalizing fraud committed by the ultrarich.

[dkf]

18. Well I doubt they are equipped to do the plumbing.

[ret5hd]

3. So the single "master janitor" mopped, unplugged toilets, changed light bulbs, washed windows, ...

cleaned up puke, stripped and polished floors, vacuumed, etc etc etc.

I think your friends were a bunch of slackers wanting to get paid for throwing erasers at each other while one man did all the work.

[dkf]

21. You know I think they did have to use some floor scrubbing thing weekly.

And yes there were eraser fights while we waited for them.

[ret5hd]

29. you sound more convincing every time you speak!!!

:rofl:

[sufrommich]

9. Custodial jobs are staffed according to the square

footage of the building and timed by room to determine how many custodians are needed in a school. Are you saying that your friends not only cleaned a few rooms but locked up and secured the building before they left? Where did you live?

[dkf]

19. Hawaii. I think they did have keys.

[sufrommich]

24. OK, that is weird. I lived on Maui when I was a child and

yes we did clean out own classrooms and worked in the kitchens.That was back in the late 1960s though and in a small elementary school in a very rural area.I had cousins who went to the city school(Kahului)who never cleaned or worked in the kitchen. I don't ever remember the High School kids cleaning the school. I still know people on Maui and schools have union adult custodians.

[ret5hd]

35. he's making it up as he goes.

[Bluenorthwest]

13. So you favor child labor? Using kids to maintain public

facilities? Should they also help pave the road to the school? Dig the ditches for the plumbing? Should they use caustic chemicals, and if so, do you think we should bother to train them in the use of those chemicals?
When student A barfs on the floor, you think student B should go do the clean up? Really? On the 'how much your dad makes' basis? Should they also wipe the asses of the richer students, do you think?

[dkf]

20. It was the go-getters that took these positions and I don't think they used any chemicals.

It was just sweeping up for goodness sakes. And this isn't a poor area.. Most went to mainland colleges on their parents dime and I'm pretty sure my friend Ryan used his room cleaning money to save for college.

[TheMadMonk]

26. Just how bloody old/young are you?

When I was in school, stacking chairs, picking up rubbish in the playground, stacking library shelves, fetching and carrying for teachers were all everyday tasks for students.

And every Wednesday afternoon, it would almost come to blows over who was going to wax the floors that week. (The game was sliding around on sacks.)

No, kids should not be used for paving (as pavers maybe), ditch digging, etc. Nor should who does or doesn't, be based on daddy's income. But a little light labour certainly wouldn't harm the lazy, littering little bastards. In fact knowing that a single discarded lolly wrapper would earn a lunchtime in close company with a bin, kept the playground remarkably rubbish free.

I too have worked in the job, and the shit I had to put up with daily, would have seen the entire school on permanent detention in my day.

[sufrommich]

27. The difference is that kids were not paid to do any of

those things, nor did they displace adult workers.

[TheMadMonk]

37. No, now instead adult workers are paid to do those things...

...out of an ever shrinking budget that should be used to educate those kids.

And it was right that kids did those things, because once upon a time, school was about preparing them for the big bad world out there. Now it is all about preparing them for the next government mandated test.

[Bluenorthwest]

17. Many people have questions you do not seem willing to

answer. Why is that? Trouble with the specifics of your vision? Nervous to fully speak your mind? Why not engage in discussion, this is a discussion board. Making a shitty remark then running off is the perfect definition of the craven DUer.

[Pithlet]

22. Interesting, isn't it? Someone else supporting this vileness in another thread. Same thing.

There is a reason they don't want to answer those questions.

[Lars39]

33. Kids barf a lot. Who cleaned it up?

[rurallib]

4. at one time the janitor was also the HVAC person

don't know if that is still true.

[sufrommich]

7. I worked as a school custodian for 33 years, ten of those

years as a night custodian and 23 as a day supervisor, and yes we are resposible for HVAC .

[madinmaryland]

5. Being an elementary school janitor is nasty. Those people deserve to

be making six figures! The stuff they have to clean up is beyond gross!

[LeftinOH]

6. Just imagine yet *another* layer of social strata in public schools:

The kids who would have to clean up the school vs. the ones who would NEVER have to lift a finger to clean up, due to their status as star athletes or being well-off, etc. And we certainly know which of those kids Newt would be.

[Ganja Ninja]

8. But just think of all the money we'll save.

Those janitors have really been cleaning up.:P

Seriously, has anybody noticed how every time a republican talks about how we can create more jobs the first step involves putting a poor person out of work?

[elocs]

10. I work as a janitor now and have worked in many schools in my city.

No, it is not rocket science but it is hard work and you have to want to do it and to do it well. Your average young person has enough on their plate just getting an education much less doing janitorial work in their school.

Also, kids are cruel. It's tough just being a teen nowadays and particularly one who is low income. A great way to brand and mark these kids and have them teased and taunted by others at school is to have them do janitorial work in their own schools on a wholesale basis.

[gkhouston]

11. "earning 10-20% of an adult male's wage"

That's why this idea is being pushed.

[Chipper Chat]

12. The firsft thing I thought of on hearing the Newtwisdomspew

was kids controlling the A/C computer systems in schools. Little Johnny could jack the cold air down in the principal's office to 55o. Or heat the band room to 90o thereby melting all the cork grease on the clarinets. Or how 'bout the high school kid leaving a DOOR UNLOCKED at the end of the day so his teenage farmer-friends could let loose several piglets to have fun eating all the cafeteria food. Lots of possibilities, Newt.

[exboyfil]

14. I run at night in front of an elementary school

I can assure you that the janitors earn their pay. I am there at different times between 5:00 pm and 10:00 pm, and they are always busy. The elementary has two second shift janitors for a 571 kid elementary. I think they may have two on duty first shift. Assume they make $60K with benefits. That is $420/kid/year out of a total of about $9K/yr. This does not seem like a lot of money for what they do.

The kids should be home working on homework anyway. That is there job right now. That is what I tell my daughters. The pittance they can earn now is nothing compared that what they can earn in scholarships or preparation for college later.

I do think so homework in elementary is valid, but not mindless activities. The best homework is free reading with book reports. It teaches the kids to read and write. Also math homework to reinforce concepts.

[saras]

15. My grade school janitor was the SCHOOL DISCIPLINARIAN. Replace THAT with a student.

[Javaman]

23. I think saying, "gingrich is an asshole", covers it all. nt

[CanonRay]

25. Newt's an idiot, and just found one more way of proving it.

Just when you thought he couldn't come up with more. What a colossal asshole.

[kickysnana]

28. Many have to be licensed here. nt.

[snooper2]

30. I changed a rear end in a 1979 Chevy Luv when I was 13, a transmission

in a 1978 Pontiac Lemans when I was 14..

Although I did get transmission fluid all over my face because I wasn't bright enough to plug the end with a old rag or something :rofl:

I was 13, 14, 15, using a Stihl cutting the branches off a tree my dad just fell so he could cut it down into logs

It's not that they can't do it, it's if they should :)

[HockeyMom]

31. Teachers AND children as Janitors

In the school district (Republican controlled) where I worked they outsourced the custodians to a private company. It was a NIGHTMARE after they did.

Little children, especially special needs, have accidents. The custodians refused to clean it up. Teachers and Aides were expected to clean up the floors, toilets, desks, of any accidents (body fluids) the kids had. We really had to fight over this. Apart from the fact that none of this was in any educational staff's job description, we did not have the training nor the equipment to do this. Fortunately, the Head Custodian, who stayed on after outsourcing, was a very nice man, who told us on the sly, to call HIM and he would do it.

The AP and Principal were very much on board with this new policy. Yes, it applied to the CHILDREN too. I was once told NOT to take a 4 year old to the bathroom during lunch. Guess what happened? Of course, he had an accident right there in the lunchroom. Do you know the AP told the boy to get a mop and clean it up?????? A 4 year old!!!! It wasn't his fault. When I called his teacher and told her what happened, she was FURIOUS at the AP for not letting the boy go to the bathroom. The teacher went to the janitor and screamed at him to mop it up, that neither the little boy, me, nor she, would mop it up.

The Pre-K and Kinder kids made a mess eating. The janitor complained about that. The AP told the Kinder kids that it was "Not Mr. G's job to clean up the floor after them." Excuse me? That is EXACTLY his job. Every day ALL these 5 year olds had to crawl under the table and pick up every single CRUMB under that table. It was HORRIBLE, not to mention very UNSANITARY for those little kids to be picking up garbage with their bare hands.

That Newt, a Republican, would say something like this doesn't surprise me at all.

[sweetapogee]

32. my first real job

was during the summer between my Sophmore and Jr. year in High School, then continued until the end of the summer before I started college. I, along with 3 others were hired by the board of education to do grounds work at the elementary and high school during the summer. This was 1974, I was 16 years old. We did everything, mowed grass, picked up litter, painted classrooms, learned plumbing repair, replaced light bulbs, I learned to drive a tractor with PTO.

During the second year I was able to drive the BOE pickup truck. I was hired to work limited hours during school sessions. We did in fact, assemble and take down the massave outdoor bleachers for the football stadium which was a major task. I painted the lines on the football field, help resurface the gym floor, I painted the lines in the parking lot, patched holes in the roof, demolished a small greenhouse, laid sod on the baseball diamond, cleared snow after storms, on and on and on...

This was a great job, there were many who wanted the few limited positions available, I was one of the lucky ones, and the pay was min. wage, i think it was about $2.30 per hour in 1974. During my Sr. year in HS I was given a set of keys to the entire elementary and high school complex and tasked with purchasing some of the materials needed to maintain the grounds. There is a picture of me in my Sr yearbook driving the schools maintence pick-up truck in the downtown business district. It was very cool, but hard work and I give that job credit for getting me started to be sucessful in life.

[Liberal_in_LA]

34. Our office janitor explained to me that his knees hurt form the work, that it made his body tired.

[mrmpa]

36. I worked in my high school when I was 13..........

I went to a Catholic high school. Tuition my first year was $190/year, then went to $250, $290 and my senior year was $350. My parents were allowed to make monthly payments. The school also offered a kind of work study, where you could work in the kitchen or library for 50 cents a module (25 minutes) so $1 for 50 minutes. I started in the kitchen my first year when I was 13 and by my senior year worked in the library. My tuition wasn't reduced by how much I worked, but I received cash from the Sisters every 2 weeks.

When I was 16, (October of my junior year) my parents made it known that I was to get a job. I got a work permit form and went to our Guidance Counselor, who questioned my need to go to work, but she signed it. My first job was as a waitress at a 24 hour restaurant( a job I was not very good at). I worked 2-3 week days from 5 p.m. to 11 p.m. I had to get out at 11 and walk 6 blocks to catch the 11:15 bus home. If I missed it I would have to wait until the next bus @ 12:26 a.m. Many times the other waitresses would get angry at my leaving at 11, because it left them with extra work at the end of their shift. Two reasons I needed to leave at 11, was the bus issue and the law was that I could work no more than 6 hours on a school night. It was hard getting home near midnight and then having to get up by 7 a.m. and get to school (I walked) by 8:05 a.m. The tips I received I was allowed to keep. My paycheck went to my parents, they gave me $10 of it & the rest was used for my tuition and the household budget.

Did my school work suffer? I'm sure it did to some point, but I got in to a great College, where I found a job @ 40 hours a week, now my school work really suffered. I did not finish my degree until I was 47.

My first job was at 8 years old. My older brother (12 years old) had a morning paper route. The summer I was 8 he got a job as a counselor in training at a Boys Club Camp. This was an overnight camp about 30 miles from where we lived. If I did not take over his papers he would have to sell the route and he would not have a job when he got back in the late summer. So my parents decided I would take over the route for the summer. The first week I collected money from my customers they were shocked to see a girl (1965). I got great tips from my customers. This was money I was allowed to keep. The rest of the money was split between what was owed to the newspaper and my brother and my parents.

I was able to persevere. But there are too many kids, if forced to work at a young age who will not persevere, who will not be able to concentrate on their school work and who will not succeed as adults.