November 22, 1963

[robdogbucky]

November 22, 1963

We were all either 14 or 15 and freshmen at a Catholic high school, Edgewood, in Madison, WI. Being Irish as well meant that in our family there was a swelling of pride in our collective breast, that an Irish Catholic man had been elected president three years prior. They said it could never happen but it did. The Kennedys were young, smart, rich, successful and Democrats. That election night was the happiest I had known to date.

Mine was a union family as well, with all my Drunkles holding positions as shop stewards or reps in their respective labor organizations. We had cousins that were nuns and priests, some in Ireland, some here in the USA. My cousins were all part of big families, and gathered at our grandparents’ home in time of celebration and in time of need. My Irish immigrant grandfather had been the mailman in our Irish neighborhood, the Old Fourth Ward, during the Great Depression and two world wars.

Back at school that fateful day, we had just finished Religion class with Father Wagner, and after the bell rang we all flooded into the halls on to our next class. Something was not right. A few students stood, leaning against lockers, sobbing quietly. We all looked around in confusion. Then it came. Sister Killeen, our principal, came on the PA, her voice choking as she quietly said, “Boys and girls, I have bad news.” We had never heard her do this. We were all stunned into silence. “An hour ago in Dallas, President Kennedy was shot and killed. Please take a moment now and offer up a prayer.”

My world changed forever that day. Camelot was over. Our dreams were dashed. The future was suddenly uncertain. It has remained uncertain since that day. Someone had snuffed out the flame that gave us hope.

[Kurmudgeon]

1. My father always said,"you want to know who did something, see who profited"

I asked him that question discussing Mr. Kennedy's assassination.
Funny how after that a Texas Conservative was put in the White House and the Vietnam War was escalated.

[CountAllVotes]

6. Vietnam was going long before JFK was assassinated

My husband had been drafted and his service was extended in 1961 thanks to the Bay of Pigs, etc. They wanted him to re-enlist so as to serve in a "secret mission is southeast Asia". Secret mission my ass. Secret mission = Vietnam and no, he did not re-enlist. :grr:

:kick:

[apocalypsehow]

19. Correct. When JFK arrived in office, there were 600 troops in Nam: he sent 20,000 more.

And in his last scheduled speech, the one at the Trade Mart, his remarks backed up further involvement in that war: "Our assistance to these nations can be painful, risky and costly, as is true in Southeast Asia today. But we dare not weary of the task."


Edit: formatting.

[robdogbucky]

7. You mean this LBJ?

"...Johnson succeeded to the presidency following the assassination of John F. Kennedy, completed Kennedy's term and was elected President in his own right, winning by a large margin in the 1964 Presidential election. Johnson was greatly supported by the Democratic Party and, as President, was responsible for designing the "Great Society" legislation that included laws that upheld civil rights, Public Broadcasting, Medicare, Medicaid, environmental protection, aid to education, and his "War on Poverty." He was renowned for his domineering personality and the "Johnson treatment," his coercion of powerful politicians in order to advance legislation.

Simultaneously, he greatly escalated direct American involvement in the Vietnam War. As the war dragged on, Johnson's popularity as President steadily declined. After the 1966 mid-term Congressional elections, his re-election bid in the 1968 United States presidential election collapsed as a result of turmoil within the Democratic Party related to opposition to the Vietnam War. He withdrew from the race amid growing opposition to his policy on the Vietnam War and a worse-than-expected showing in the New Hampshire primary. Despite the failures of his foreign policy, Johnson is ranked favorably by some historians because of his domestic policies...

Great Society

...The Great Society program, with its name coined from one of Johnson's speeches,<21> became Johnson's agenda for Congress in January 1965: aid to education, attack on disease, Medicare, Medicaid, urban renewal, beautification, conservation, development of depressed regions, a wide-scale fight against poverty, control and prevention of crime, and removal of obstacles to the right to vote. Congress, at times augmenting or amending, enacted most of Johnson's recommendations. After the Great Society legislation of the 1960s, for the first time a person who was not elderly or disabled could receive a living from the American government...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_B._Johnson

[Kurmudgeon]

16. Yeah, that LBJ, like Nixon more liberal than most folks today believe.

However, I can't shake my suspicions LBJ knew and was involved and who knows who else.

[robdogbucky]

18. Yup, I know what you mean. I am suspicious of what he knew as well

It does not negate the good that Johnson was able to accomplish, warts and all. I see it possibly going down that JFK was the upstart, determined to make changes, but he wanted to go just a little too far for TPTB. LoveABuck Johnson on the other hand, was likely more connected inside the beltway (Pentagon/CIA) than JFK and when JFk balked at the foreign policy decisions being made per Cuba, VN, Cold War, etc., LBJ agreed to "go along to get along," as he was so fond of saying himself.

I think he took the reins when he acquiesced to their foreign adventure plans, something JFK was not on board with.

That is just my humble personal opinion though. Our leaders have often seemed to embody multiple contradictions in their philosophy and beliefs. Are you familiar with Andrew Jackson, Old Hickory? He is called the Atrocious Saint for a reason. He was awful on the Indians and he owned slaves himself in the tradition of the southern gentleman/plantation owner. He was a Tennesseean and that state was a border state during the Civil War as was N. Carolina. I think they were the last to join the confederacy and the first to exit it. The accounts of what changes Jackson underwent when he finally was elected and his wife Rachel's passing just as he made that ascendacy, made his a troubled presidency. He had the banksters down dead to rights though. Check it out, he has some great quotes that fit our present situation. He was a fascinating man, who lived most of his adult life with a bullet in his chest from a duel. Yup, our presidents have been sometimes complicated. Not to excuse what TPTB did to JFK, but what else could LBJ do if that kind of offer was made. I am not excusing him either, as he only lasted one term himself and I'm sure he didn't plan on that happening.

I am reminded of the opening bars of The Electric Flag's "Killing Floor," when one of Johnson's speeches is played, "I speak tonight for the dignity of man and the destiny of democracy. I appeal to leaders of both parties...." followed by a crowd laughing and jeering, then the tune starts. That kicked off that album, which was released right smack dab in the middle of that era.

Artists have always been ballsy. Gotta love it.



Just more of my centavos

robdogbucky

[hifiguy]

21. I don't think LBJ knew anything in advance.

I do think it likely that the people who put the hit on JFK (CIA/military - read James Douglass' "JFK and the Unspeakable" to learn the whole truth) figured the LBJ would follow their lead, something JFK showed no propensity to do whatsoever.

I also think it more than probable that, after JFK was killed, LBJ got a little lecture from the MIC/PTB. He (LBJ) could have the Great Society. But only if he gave them Vietnam in return.

And anyone who thinks that JFK was in Vietnam for the long haul is simply ignoring all of the evidence. JFK planned to have every American out of Vietnam within months of his second inauguration. Which is one of the major reasons he was killed.

[Martin Eden]

24. I don't think we'll ever know if JFK would have done what LBJ did in Vietnam

What we do know is that war tore our country apart and destroyed the promise of a better future that was eloquently articulated by JFK. He inspired a generation of young Americans who were eager to do what they could for their country ... only to be betrayed and sent off to kill and die in Vietnam. The covenant between these youing people and their country was broken, and still has not healed.

[Martin Eden]

25. I was in in first grade

I don't remember the moment when I heard the horrible news, but I remember watching the funeral.

I have a much better recollection of Dr King's assassination.

[NBachers]

2. I can still remember sitting on a school bus to go home at the end of that day - in shock

and watching a teacher carry a passed-out student across the campus and into school. I was a ninth-grader too.

We got a similar announcement. I guess everyone did.

And still I mourn for what could have been, should have been, would have been.

We're still fighting the gloating fascist jackals who created this nightmare.

And, yes, pray for the safety of our current president and his family.

I'm sure he's been shown what could happen.

[tblue]

3. It just hit me: Pray extra hard for Pres. O today.

I remember that day too, though I'm not Irish and I'm not Catholic, and I was in kindergarten. I was too young to fully feel the impact But I remember being sent home from school early and my mom ironing while watching tv and weeping.

[CountAllVotes]

4. Shall never forget

I was a child at that time and I remember they announced over the PA system at the school I attended that the President has been assassinated. I did not know what the word "assassinated" meant but I knew what being sent home for the day meant which is what the announcement was about.

Hence, I trotted home to an empty house being Mother worked full-time. I was a "lock-key" child; something that my mother could have gotten into a lot of trouble for even at that time.

She came home later that day and wanted to know why I was home from school so early and I told her that President Kennedy had been "assassinated" and that we were sent home for the day. She said that was a lie! She turned on the radio and heard the news and broke down and cried and cried, something I rarely saw Mother do.

The funeral seemed to last forever is my main remembrance of President Kennedy's death. I've never heard "Theme from a Summer's Place" played so much in my life as it is permanently etched into my mind and I think of JFK every time I hear it.

America has never been the same since the dream died along with President Kennedy that sad sad day in November.

:kick:

[HockeyMom]

5. It was my 15th Birthday

I was a Sophomore at an all girls Catholic school in NYC. My parents were Irish and Italian Democrats who had voted for JFK. I was sitting in Geometry class thinking about the cake my Mom was baking for me and what presents I was going to get. When they came on the PA announcing the President had been shot, we all broke out in tears. I think that was really the only time we all seriously did PRAY, and that he would live.

You cannot imagine the scene walking home from school in Manhattan that day. People were CRYING openly on the city streets. Strangers were hugging each other. As much of a daze I was in, looking at these peoples reactions really hit me. Needless to say, there was no birthday celebration for me that day.

America lost its innocence that day. I know those of us who were still children then most certainly did. I often wonder what America would have been like today if Jack, and also Bobby, had lived. Their deaths changed the USA forever.

Since he was assassinated on my birthday, every year since 1963 I am forced to think about that day. I cannot help it.

[Hardrada]

10. It was my 19th birthday and I was a college sophomore.

I had been an English major but this event (and the sorrow and worry I saw on campus) propelled me into philosophy and theology instead so I could get a deeper understanding and a broader comprehension of such a tragedy.

[HockeyMom]

23. Happy Birthday to you

In all my 63 years I have never met anyone who shared my Birthday and had shared that horrible event.

[Octafish]

8. 'Arrogant' CIA Disobeys Orders in Viet Nam

Stuff they don't tell you on tee vee or in skool:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6918706&mesg_id=6918706

Looking back we see how our very different world came to be. Thank you for sharing robdogbucky.

[jwirr]

9. And that real danger is still present today. You can bet they are on

the side of the MIC, the corporatist and the 1%.

[robdogbucky]

14. My analysis is that there were 3 distinct reasons for it happening

Bay of Pigs failed invasion. It was handed to him unbeknownst by Ike. It was hatched by RW Cuban exiles in conjunction with TPTB. It failed and JFK was blamed.

Cuban Missile Crisis. Instigated by Soviets, but in response to aggressive action by our forces in their hemisphere, not mentioned in many history books. JFK had actual gonads, and that showdown was too close for comfort for TPTB.

The assassination of S. Viet Nam president Diem on November 2, 1963. I believe this was another directed killing to clear the way for further involvement in VN. JFK was looking for ways to get out, TPTB were looking for ways to escalate and Diem was in their way.


And of course, he was Catholic, a limousine liberal Democrat, and he was from one of the Boston elite families. This was not tolerable to TPTB. Just like Abraham, Martin and Bobby and JFK Jr. and Paul Wellstone, and Ron Brown, and........


Just business as usual in a world of psyops.

[Enrique]

11. Edgewood H.S. and College were on my mail route

I did Route 11 on Monroe street for about 3 years, 20 years ago. Maybe I had the same route as your grandfather, but I don't know what the Old Fourth Ward was, I didn't even know Madison had wards!

[robdogbucky]

15. The 4th Ward in Madison was the old Irish neighborhood

on the near west side, from the Capitol Square and St. Ray's down to the "Bush," at the intersection of Regent and W. Washington. That was the boundary for the Italian neighborhood and their parish, St. Joe's on Park St., back in the day. It then stretched passed the Mifflin area over to State St. to the North, which was the boundary for the German neighborhood and their parish, Holy Redeemer on Johnson? St. St. Ray's was also the Cathedral for the diocese and for the non-Catholics among us that meant it was the home court for the Bishop. He arrived for high mass on all the main feast days to celebrate elaborately in St. Ray's. The Southern boundary for The Fourth Ward is Lake Monona.

There was a second Irish parish, St. Patrick's, about 4 blocks east of the square, as the immigration patterns had flooded Madtown with first the Irish, then the German and Norwegian, and finally at the turn of the century, the Italians. For a brief period there were more Irish than anything else, hence the need for a second Irish parish. Each new immigration group established their own neighborhoods, social clubs, Catholic parishes with grade schools, funeral directors, grocery stores, liquor stores, etc. Not much in the way of early restaurants back in the day, but there were lots of saloons. My Grandfather's brother owned what was then named The Irish Garden at the turn of the last century, which in later years after Prohibition, was the Shamrock Bar, up on W. Main, adjacent to the square across from the Park Motor Inn.

Grandpa's mail route, memorialized in his obit in the Cap Times upon his retirement, described the ten miles he trekked each day for about 50 years with one of those large leather mailbags strapped over his shoulder, all over the square businesses, to the State Capitol and legislative offices, the old state office building on E. Wilson, and the municipal offices in the morning, and then down in that residential neighborhood, The Old Fourth Ward, in the afternoons. He knew all the judges, the politicians, the cops, the news writers, business owners, etc., and they all paid tribute to him and his dedication to the poor families on his route during The Depression. He was a genuine folk hero in the hood.

Edgewood, Monroe St., Camp Randall, all were considered "West side." I grew up downtown on the 300 block of Doty at the intersection with Broom and hitchhiked most days out to EHS on busy W. Wash. Our old house's location is a residential care facility, and my Mother, born and raised on that block, now lives in that facility just yards from where our old house stood, no longer there. She is 95 and one year older than Camp Randall. It boggles my mind to contemplate that. Gramps in his own right lived to be 102 or 104, depending on which immigration records one consults, as there is some confusion and disagreement where and when he entered. My Mom probably misses St. Ray's more than anyone on the planet.



Just my dos centavos

robdogbucky

[Cyrano]

12. My uncle was in the middle of Times Square that day

Anyone who has ever been in NY knows that Times Square never stops moving.

But it did that day.

My uncle told me that as word spread, cars, taxis, pedestrians all stopped and stared at the news crawl running across the old NY Times building at the south end of Times Square.

People were standing in the street with tears running down their eyes. No driver was honking a horn. The world seemed frozen in time.

November 22, 1963 might very well have been the most horrifying day in American history.

But one thing we know for sure. The assassination of John Kennedy was the beginning of the end of democracy in America. And the assassinations of Martin and Bobby sealed our fate. Reagan came along and the masquerade of democracy fell away.

[LeftinOH]

13. It happened exactly at *this* moment 48 years ago; Zapruder clip follows:

[hifiguy]

22. Back and to the left.

Back and to the left.

The film does not lie.

[The Genealogist]

17. The assassination happened 10 years before my birth

My father told me what he remembered. He worked in management with the JJ Newberry dime store chain. I can't remember what city he was in at the time, as he moved several times with the company. However, that day, he was demonstrating a radio to a customer. He turned it on, and there was silence. He thought there was something wrong with the radio, but then the announcer came on and said Kennedy had been shot and killed.

I don't think he was bothered with that, particularly. He came from a Republican family, and was a staunch Republican. However, he claims to have voted for Kennedy on a drunken dare. He swore til the end that Kennedy only won because of election fraud in Illinois.

Though I was not around in Kennedy's day, I mourn not only his loss as a good human being, but for what might have been, had Kennedy not been killed that day. I think the US would be a lot different place today.

[MANative]

20. I was just over three years old...

and it's my first cognizant memory. I remember sitting on the floor of our living room, playing with some kind of toy, and turning around toward the sofa when my mother started screaming and crying. I think it struck me so much because it's the first time I remember her being so upset. She worked for JFK when he was a Senator in MA, and adored him.