Occupy LA offered office space & farm land for $1 year in exchange for getting off city lawn

[Liberal_in_LA]

Heard on radio this morning. The Mayor made the offer. Should they take the deal?

[Vincardog]

1. What does the GA say?

[piratefish08]

3. +1

[coalition_unwilling]

11. Highly contentious issue. A lot of anger that negotiations

have been carried out allegedly in secret by persons not authorized by GA to do so.

[Vincardog]

16. Did the GA vote it up or not? Did it even come to a vote?

[coalition_unwilling]

31. Nothing to 'vote' on just yet. What happened at last night's GA was

a report by Jim Lafferty of National Lawyer's Guild and a gentleman named Scott, both of whom serve on the City Liaison Committee. Merely a report of the initial offer by the City. Occasioned heated discussion.

FWIW, I've been informed by a resident parliatmentarian that GA's do not 'vote,' they 'decide.' Semantic hair-splitting, imo, but thought you might want to know :)

[Vincardog]

37. Thanks for the info. The only Occupy I could make it to was too small to do much of either

[nc4bo]

+2.

My impression was that anyone can do or say anything but it's up to the majority of people to decide whether to approve or disapprove.

I guess the test will be if there is a disapproval majority and those who approve, split.

:shrug:

[coalition_unwilling]

32. Not sure whether city offer will require 100% consensus or merely

90% consensus.

[EFerrari]

47. It really isn't up to the city.

Occupy LA doesn't have its hand out, the city does.

[rhett o rick]

77. But the city might not agree if OWS cant guarantee that none will continue to occupy the park. nm

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Up to the General Assembly

[snooper2]

4. So they are trying to put OLA "out to pasture"?

:P

[coalition_unwilling]

35. That's one interpretation, for sure - n/t

[Angry Dragon]

5. How far from the city??

I think it is worth consideration

[Liberal_in_LA]

link to details

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/11/la-offers-occupy-protesters-office-space-farm-to-close-camp.html

Occupy L.A. protesters said Los Angeles officials have offered them office space and farmland to end their encampment at City Hall.

The proposals eceived with a mix of excitement, anger and disbelief among protesters, many of whom did not know that members of the camp were in negotiations with city officials.

"I don't appreciate people appointing themselves to represent me, to represent us," one woman called out during the assembly. "Who was in those meetings?"

"It's divide and conquer," another protester said.

The details of the proposal were revealed Monday during the demonstration's nightly general assembly meeting by Jim Lafferty, an attorney with the National Lawyers Guild who has been advocating on behalf of the protest since it began seven weeks ago.

Lafferty said city officials have offered protesters a $1-a-year lease on a 10,000-square-foot office space near City Hall. He said officials also promised land elsewhere for protesters who wish to farm, as well as additional housing for the contingent of homeless people who joined the camp

[Enrique]

7. were they demanding farmland and office space?

if so, then it would make sense to take the offer.

I'm not directing this question at you, by the way. Thanks for the details. :hi:

[Liberal_in_LA]

10. no they werent

[coalition_unwilling]

36. One person described it as 'firebombing' last nights' GA. There

was no formal advance notice given that it would be the topic of discussion at last night's GA that I'm aware of.

So no 'demand' had been made of city by GA or anyone acting on GA's authorization.

When it comes to demands, I 'demand' that entire LA City Council resign immediately. But I'm demanding for myself, not on behalf of OLA :)

[Vincardog]

18. I vote that the homeless accept the housing, anyone who wants to can go farm, and the GA vote on

what happens next

[coalition_unwilling]

38. Hehe - GA's don't 'vote,' they 'decide,' according to a

resident parliamentarian who knows the process :) I only know b/c I already tripped that semantic landmine unwittingly :)

[Vincardog]

46. OK the GA "DECIDES" o the rest

[coalition_unwilling]

56. Now you got the spirit :) Part of the trick to having a successful

GA experience is avoiding linguistic landmines like 'vote' and 'leader' (both of which I have stepped on inadvertently in the past, causing much gnashing of teeth and rending of garments :)

[Enrique]

6. it's Occupy LA

not Occupy Bumfuck, CA. I imagine farmland in Southern California is well off the beaten path.

[Liberal_in_LA]

13. a little bit of farmland left in the san fernando valley, about an hour from downtown in traffic

definitely none to offer. Real farmland is outside of LA, not for the mayor of LA to offer farmland of other cities.

[CreekDog]

26. "an hour north of downtrown traffic" --are you a realtor or something?

are you marketing someplace none of us would want to go if we were in downtown LA, somewhere nothing like downtown LA?

are you marketing it with vague descriptions designed to make it sound good?

what gives?

[Liberal_in_LA]

27. hey now. I life in SFV.

[CreekDog]

29. quit dodging the question --OWS is in downtown LA

(i wasn't criticizing the Valley, i was saying if you're in Downtown LA and intend to be there, want to be there, then you don't want to be an hour north of there in the far reaches of the Valley)

why are you describing the land they were offered as "an hour north of downtown traffic"?

that's talking like a realtor or a brochure.

[coalition_unwilling]

40. Very few of us know anything specific. The term 'farmland' may be

a metaphor for open urban space for a tent city.

I'm not sure, though.

[CreekDog]

48. thanks for the insight into what's going on

and i was mainly criticizing the flowery terms used by the poster i was responding to.

[EFerrari]

52. Before anyone agrees to anything, I hope someone asks for

the tax info on that property for last year. It may be public record. But then at least you'd know how much of a tax break you are helping that property owner to and you can use that as a bargaining chip.

[Liberal_in_LA]

53. that's how we describe stuff in LA - by how long it takes to drive there

[CreekDog]

61. .

nevermind.

sorry.

[Liberal_in_LA]

62. omg.

[CreekDog]

63. i know

:rofl:

[JDPriestly]

28. That is not true. We had a cooperative garden within a few miles of

City Hall to the North. The City shut it down.

The cornfields are within a few blocks of City Hall. I have been thinking that would be a great place for OWS. It is much, much larger than the lawn around City Hall. There isn't any shade, but OWS could take care of that.

OWS should consider this, but it is up to the people who have been camping out.

This may be an ultimatum. I hope not, but it may be.

An office space is very confining, so I am not a part of OWS in LA, but I would guess that much will depend on where the "farmland" is located.

The offer is probably very well meant. After all, winter is coming. We will have some cold days.

And office space would be good for meeting. As would farmland.

[Liberal_in_LA]

54. I don't think of abandoned city plots of land as 'farmland'

[U4ikLefty]

60. Cold days? I doesn't get real cold in L.A. in the winter...rarely gets to the 30's.

The "cornfield" (Los Angeles State Historic Park) is over a mile from City Hall and not in the heart of downtown.

[JDPriestly]

71. It's near Union Station. You can easily walk from there to City Hall.

At least I could.

The real problem with the city's offer, as someone pointed out, is that it would force OWS into picking a "leader" to sign contracts, etc.

Then there would be questions about insurance, liability, all the legal details.

OWS does not need to get that complicated. It is not an organization. The whole point of OWS as I understand it is that it is not an "organization."

[coalition_unwilling]

39. I think 'farmland' was a metaphor for an open space on which a camp

could be erected. But not sure.

[peacetalksforall]

8. It means a contract and the legal system if things get worse. Someone should go test

the land for toxins before anyone sits down to consider.

Remove LA from the cities that protest in exchange for making food for protestors in other cities? It will take too long.

Republicans would turn this into a lie if they did this - they would say follow the example of LAX.

I lean towards NOT taking the deal, but cutting some kind of other deal for helping the homeless. Subject to more being known about all aspects.

Doesn't seem like a movement if there is a contract and restrictions that lawyers have to help out with. Maybe it's a gateway to something better - but so fare there is ZERO change in what goes on a WS and the way the use, steal from, and use the people and their money and the fact that they are leading us toward our loss of sovereignty.

[peacetalksforall]

22. Also consider that the southern cities might have to carry the load of protests if the weather

becomes too severe this winter.

[FarCenter]

24. By next spring, Occupy will be seen as a "California thing"

A plurality of the news flow and postings are now related to Occupy groups in California.

Occupy in the northeast may dig in for a few more weeks, but the main effort will go into survival through the winter. Outdoor camping will become more difficult and members will move indoor for shelter and tend to split up.

Besides, you don't hear much of anything about Occupy in most metro areas of the NE. The South never had too much publicity, besides a little in Austin and some Florida cities.

Most of the big encampments, demonstrations, semi-riots, police activity and media stories are now coming out of California.

[csziggy]

49. I've been hoping a lot of Occupiers would come to Florida for the winter

And help put pressure on pRick Scott and the ultra conservative Florida legislature. There are some real nice parks in downtown Tallahassee with lots of space for tents. :evilgrin:

Occupy Tally is having:

Really Really Free Market – Black Friday 11/25
Posted on November 22, 2011 by occupyadmin

People of Tallahassee!
In opposition to the ideals of Black Friday, Occupy Tallahassee will be holding a Really Really Free Market on Friday, November 25 at 4 am. A Really Really Free Market consists of people donating unwanted items for others to take. No one is required to bring something in order to take something. This exchange promotes reuse of items, rather than consumption and the eventual sending of things to the landfill. This is disruptive to the one percent, because it moves exchange outside of the market. If you would like to donate items, please email [e-mail], and we can pick items up. Otherwise, donations can be brought to All Saints Cafe on Railroad Ave and dropped off in the Occupy Tallahassee donation box.

Friday, we’ll bring the Really Really Free Market to be set up at the Governor’s Square Mall, along with coffee for shoppers. We’ll also have fliers promoting local business and free options for Christmas gifts.

Thank you for your support.
Solidarity,
Occupy Tallahassee
http://www.occupytally.org/category/special-events/

And a day of action January 10, 2012 - info at the same link.

[coalition_unwilling]

41. I personally would counter with a demand that entire city council resign

immediately because it no longer has legitimacy in the eyes of the people.

[librechik]

9. They should take the deal. AND they should continue to occupy public spaces, they have that right.

no contract with the city can negate the Constitution.


The farm would be an excellent place to start a model community using sustainability etc and a place for the homeless. great educational opportunity

[coalition_unwilling]

43. The deal implies a quid pro quo. They get the land in return for abandoning the

symbolic lawns of City hall. They don't get to take the deal and remain in place, if I understand the deal being proposed.

[librechik]

44. I get that, but what a con. Make them give the poor the land,since it's available

and STFU!

Not liking this deal. I don't think such a quid pro quo is legal.

[coalition_unwilling]

59. When one party makes an offer, it's customary for the other party

to make a counter offer. It will be interesting seeing what OLA's GA builds consensus around in the way of a counter offer. And a true litmus test of where the movement, such as it is, stands.

[leveymg]

12. That's an interesting approach by the Mayor. Concession or cooptation?

Why didn't the City do this earlier? At any rate, it shows that it is possible to wring concessions by standing up for what's right and being willing to sit down (or lie down) in a prominent place for a while to make a point.

Will an office be prominent enough in the public eye for Occupy to continue to apply political pressure? I doubt it.

[ellenfl]

17. just because they have office space doesn't mean they

cannot spend the day in the street. however, they would need to be very careful careful about what the contract says. they may be breaking laws just by occupying the office space.

ellen fl

[JDPriestly]

30. The City Council in LA has always been supportive of OWS.

When OWS first started, the City Council invited OWS in for a City Council meeting.

After all, California as a state and the cities in California (as well as in other parts of the US) have been harmed by the stock manipulation and fraud on Wall Street and by the banks.

The robosigning of mortgage transfers was a way to avoid the fees involved in registering the transfer of a mortgage. It was a way to cheat state and local governments.

[FarCenter]

42. Californians need to look to their own mortgage lenders for the cause of the mess

CountryWide, IndyMac, and Golden West were key financial institutions in coming up with "innovative" mortgage lending products and keen proponents of "no-doc", NINJA, and Pick-a-pay type mortgages.

WaMu was a credible Pacific Northwest institution until they acquired a California mortgage lender.

The last batch of robosigners that were busted resided in CA, although they worked for a company headquartered in Jacksonville, FL.

[jwirr]

33. Plus the idea of Occupy kind of looses it's flavor when it is an office

they paid for. There are some goodies here when you are thinking of the homeless but I think it is not a good idea for OS. If it were in an area that is going to have weather related problems and it were the union that was offering the office space it would be different.

[coalition_unwilling]

45. The devil definitely can reside in the details, few of which are known right

now.

[msongs]

14. why is LA wasting water and maintenance on invasive species like lawns anyway? nt

[kestrel91316]

25. Lawns are hardly "invasive" here. They require tremendous assistance to survive.

I suppose Bermuda grass IS invasive, that accursed crap. But it doesn't qualify as a real lawn, either.

[eleny]

15. On radio here someone suggested giving them motor homes or some such

And it was a guest on the program, not a local caller.

So it sounds like bribery is the new meme or maybe it's a step they've inserted between "then they fight you and then you win".

The wet dream of the powers that be in a smilie -

[Liberal_in_LA]

55. off topic. I love that little bus smiley.

[eleny]

73. Me too! Been waiting for a reason to use it

:hi:

[grasswire]

19. out of sight, out of mind

Why would cows care about protests?

[CreekDog]

20. Why would they want to move practically to Magic Mountain?

rejecting the "offer" means they aren't as stupid as some people think they are.

(you said about a hour north of downtown traffic in San Fernando Valley)

[Liberal_in_LA]

65. Magic mountain would be another 30 minutes or more, out the back of the valley into Santa Clarita,

I think

[CreekDog]

66. It would be like Occupy NY moving to Staten Island

and that's a charitable comparison.

:shrug:

[FarCenter]

67. I've worked with a number of people who live on Staten Island

It's actually one of the more reasonable places to live in New York City.

There are some safe, well-run "family" neighborhoods, if you catch my drift.

[CreekDog]

68. Ok, but that's not really the point is it?

:rofl:

I'm not saying these are "bad" places.

I'm saying if someone is in midtown, if a group is there, just because Staten Island is within the city limits, does not make it appropriate for the purpose or reason that brought them to midtown or wherever in Manhattan.

Same with LA. If you're Occupying LA, and you mean downtown LA (hell, the mayor wants people to come downtown, right? :P ) you don't mean Burbank, or Van Nuys or Sylmar or even the edges of Los Angeles like where E.T. was filmed.

Places being "nice" don't mean that OWS should just up and move to them on that basis (or cost) alone.

[FarCenter]

69. But why occupy downtown LA?

When I think of high finance in the LA area, I think of Pimco in Newport Beach. And there are lots of other investment firms in Orange Country.

When I think of sleaseball mortgage lenders, I think of Countrywide at 4500 Park Granada, Calabasas, CA 91302, which is in the San Fernando Valley. I think H F Ahmanson was also located in a suburb.

What is in downtown LA to protest?

[CreekDog]

70. Why are you asking me?

I'm saying if they're in downtown LA and have chosen to occupy it, sending them to a rural area in the valley is probably not going to fulfill the reason they chose downtown LA.

If you want to protest somewhere else, you go for it.

I'm pointing out that one place is not the same as the others.

Nevertheless, do you notice that people protest in cities because they are natural meeting places, natural focuses of activity, places of high density, places with more public transit, etc.?

But part of me is kind of staggering at the "What is in downtown LA to protest?".

Perhaps the last time you were in downtown was in the early 1970's. :shrug:



:banghead:

[FarCenter]

72. I've been in LA on business and pleasure a number of times, but never in downtown

AFAIK, there is no "there" there.

Actually, there is no "there" there on Wall Street either. The Occupy movement has a pretty fuzzy and mostly obsolete concept of how the financial industry is actually organized.

[CreekDog]

74. you've never been in downtown LA and you're telling us what isn't there?

SMH.

:rofl:

[FarCenter]

75. Since you've been there, what major financial institution has a headquarters in Downtown LA?

[CreekDog]

76. what's the premise of your question, that OWS should only protest at HQ of "major" financials?

:shrug:

[FarCenter]

78. If you are going to Occupy "Wall Street", doesn't that imply financials?

Or at least places that are important to the 1%?

Downtown LA, downtown Detroit, and most metro downtowns are places that the 1% is essentially indifferent about. There are a few office towers there, but those are not necessarly critical to anyone's operation, and tend to be put there as sops to political forces.

[CreekDog]

81. If it's so important to you where OWS protests --why are you arguing it with me?

You keep saying OWS has no significant interests to protest in downtown LA.

But you are arguing this with me and I have no membership or participation in OWS.

So :wtf: Take your own advice.

:rofl:

[rhett o rick]

79. I think the point of civil disobedience is to make it uncomfortable for the 1%. To move to

where it doesnt make it uncomfortable is defeating the purpose. They should ask the Mayor where would he least like them to be.

[FarCenter]

80. The mayor is unimportant; where would the 1% least like them to be?

[handmade34]

21. just sayin...

"...A 1980 U.S. Supreme Court decision awarded $122 million to eight bands of Sioux Indians as compensation for land claims, but the court did not award land. The Lakota have refused the settlement..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakota_people

[FirstLight]

23. sure!

show them what a real community can DO with the space! could be a grand opportunity to grow food and break pout new technology... rather than just holding the space, DO something with it!

[coalition_unwilling]

34. More from today's LA Times:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/11/office-space-offered-to-occupy-la-just-steps-from-encampment.html

[EFerrari]

51. Interesting. It may be remembered, though, that commercial landlords

are giving away free rent all over CA in the hopes of finally getting a tenant who can pay rent eventually. So the offer of these 10K sq ft isn't all that magnanimous. Plus, the owner will be able to write off a loss for the cost of the utilities, his mortgage interest, maintenance, repairs, etc.

[qb]

50. It sounds like a free speech zone.

:eyes:

[Maine-ah]

57. um, basically moving them out to farmland

would get them out of the view of the public, I would think. Why would the accept that offer?

[Broderick]

58. Out of sight. Out of mind

Problem goes away.

shrug. It's a puerile attempt to slough off the protesters imo.

[Tatiana]

64. As I understand, they are only offering leased office space. Is that correct?

I wouldn't agree to any deal that didn't offer an outright, free-and-clear donation of property (with reasonable property tax rates).