If every Democratic president disappoints, maybe there’s something wrong with our expectations"

[apples and oranges]

Why are liberals so desperately unhappy with the Obama presidency?

Here is my explanation: Liberals are dissatisfied with Obama because liberals, on the whole, are incapable of feeling satisfied with a Democratic president. They can be happy with the idea of a Democratic president—indeed, dancing-in-the-streets delirious—but not with the real thing. The various theories of disconsolate liberals all suffer from a failure to compare Obama with any plausible baseline. Instead they compare Obama with an imaginary president—either an imaginary Obama or a fantasy version of a past president.

For almost all of the past 60 years, liberals have been in a near-constant emotional state of despair, punctuated only by brief moments of euphoria and occasional rage. When they’re not in charge, things are so bleak they threaten to move to Canada; it’s almost more excruciating when they do win elections, and their presidents fail in essentially the same ways: He is too accommodating, too timid, too unwilling or unable to inspire the populace. (Except for Johnson, who was a bloodthirsty warmonger.)

Is it really likely that all these presidents have suffered from the same character flaws? Suppose you’re trying to find dates online, and everybody you meet turns out to be too ugly. Might it be possible that the problem isn’t the attractiveness of the single people in your town but rather your standards? ...

http://nymag.com/print/?/news/politics/liberals-jonathan-chait-2011-11/

He may be on to something here...

[woo me with science]

1. Oh my god.

:rofl:

[H2O Man]

3. "

[EFerrari]

29. Yep.

LOL

[Kaleko]

39. Lowered expectations.

Anyone remember those Saturday Night Live skits?

Ms Wu sets the example looking for a man, any kind of man, as long as it's a man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxL1uXwSrdU

[TheWraith]

50. No, REALISTIC expectations versus unrealistic ones.

The difference between ordering a pizza with the expectation that it'll arrive within 15 minutes, and expecting God to personally wish into existence a pizza for you piping hot on your kitchen table. And then being pissed when it doesn't happen.

[TBF]

2. We have had exactly 2 democratic presidents in the past 30 years -

so you are basing your assessment on what? How old are you?

[apples and oranges]

5. The article goes through the timeline of how liberals felt about past presidents

during the time when the president was actually in office.

[TheWraith]

13. Right back to FDR, who was constantly slammed for timid half-measures.

One of which was called "Social Security." And it's no coincidence that the best regarded Democratic president is the one furthest back in history, because historians have a better yardstick for measuring meaningful change.

It's an excellent, insightful article, and I hope everyone reads it.

[MannyGoldstein]

33. What was FDR's favoribility rating after 3 years in office?

Thanks for playing.

[TheWraith]

51. Given that those numbers don't exist, you might as well ask for a unicorn.

And you'd know that, if your point weren't solely to draw attention away from the correct point that FDR was slammed for many of the same reasons.

[MannyGoldstein]

56. How many Congressional seats did the Dems *gain* in 1934?

FDR delivered the goods and was widely and deeply loved; your losing-the-forest-for-the-trees history snippets are unhelpful.

[dtexdem]

4. No, there's nothing wrong with our expectations other than that they may be too timid.

What is wrong is the process by which we get Democratic presidential candidates.

No, he is onto nothing.

unrec

[TheWraith]

12. Actually, he pretty much nailed not just the problem but also the origin of the problem.

And why left-wing politics are always dissatisfied and fractious.

[hifiguy]

6. It's Jonathan Chait,

who is a complete dick in the first place. Nothin' to see here.

[struggle4progress]

19. The article certainly doesn't contain anything informative

[TheWraith]

52. Only if you didn't read it. nt

[struggle4progress]

59. I read it. I already knew where folk like Aravosis and Greenwald were coming from.

Indications of their continuing blather doesn't inform me. IMO the important political problems concern questions such as: what material interests are involved? and who is actually organized to do what? Chait jabbering vacuously about "liberals" doesn't tell me anything

[sabrina 1]

38. Thanks, typical drivel from Chait.

[Bluenorthwest]

7. This is the piece that includes attacks on those who spoke out

against Rick Warren at the Inaugural, days after Warren equated gay relationships with pedophilia and incest. Those who stood by in silence while Warren was honored were in the wrong, and I will never forget that this Party did that. This Party owes us for that. And this fucker calls out Maddow, (she rode that story) and others for speaking the righteous truth.
So anyone who agrees with this son of a so and so supports hate speech, and opposes those who stand against open invective against minority groups. NY Magazine, fish wrap that it is, should still be ashamed to print this pro-bigotry garbage.

[DCKit]

8. No. We're hoping for a (D) - The People President, not a (D) - Corporate President.

I'm not holding my breath.

[Angry Dragon]

28. that would be (d) - Corporate President

I will learn to downgrade my principles
so I can better fit in to society

[msongs]

words mean nothing unless they are backed up by action nt

[Rex]

9. See, now I don't get this at all.

Supposedly, Obama has an 84% approval rating among liberal dems...so which is true? They both can't be true.

[TheWraith]

16. Certainly they can.

The fact that most liberal Democrats "get it" doesn't negate the fact that there is a small but VERY loud contingent who specializes in not getting it.

[Rex]

45. Ah I C

[sabrina 1]

18. I think that is among OFA democrats. No one I know who actually

voted for him is under any more illusions now. Democrats will probably vote for him because the alternative is so bad, but if there was a real choice, they would not. Meantime all the energy that went into the Presidential race last time, will probably go into getting real Democratic Progressives elected and kicking out as many DLCers/Third Wayers as possible.

[TheWraith]

53. Your personal anecdotes are not more valid than scientific data.

And your fantasy conspicuously gives a pass to the people who actually spent every ounce of their will opposing any kind of positive policies. In other words, just another roadmap to the type of circular firing squad that Democrats are so good at. Fortunately, you're as wrong about the presidential race as you are about everything else.

[Tarheel_Dem]

10. Agreed. Did you know he's now pepper spraying innocent protesters too?

He's evil. Evil, I say. :hi:

[spin]

11. My disappointment with Obama is that while he is a great campaigner ...

with fantastic ideas, he has proven to be only a poor to fair leader.

He is starting another campaign and will likely win reelection considering the lack of quality in the Republican field. Perhaps in his second term he will finally become the President that I was hoping for.

Even Chris Mathews has expressed disappointment with the Obama Presidency.

By Christopher Bedford
Published: 9:38 AM 11/21/2011
Chris Matthews to Obama: ‘Just tell us, commander. Give us our orders’

In a Sunday evening interview on MSNBC, “Hardball” host Chris Matthews spoke candidly not just of his allegiance to the president’s agenda, but also of the frustrations many on the professional left are feeling with the administration’s lack of leadership.

“There’s nothing to root for,” Matthews lamented. “What are we trying to do in this administration? Why does he want a second term, would he tell us? What’s he going to do in his second term, more of this? Is this it? Is this as good as it gets? Where are we going? Are we going to do something his second term? He’s yet to tell us.”

“He has not said one thing about what he’d do in his second term,” Matthews continued. “He never tells us what he’s going to do with reforming our health care systems, Medicare, Medicaid. How he’s going to reform Social Security? Is he going to deal with long-term debt? How? Is he going to reform the tax system? How?”

“Just tell us — why are we in this with him? Just tell us, commander. Give us our orders and tell us where we’re going. Give us the mission.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/21/chris-matthews-to-obama-just-tell-us-commander-give-us-our-orders-video/#ixzz1eTh0aFbu

[TheWraith]

14. And as the article points out, they said the same thing about every Democrat.

Going back to, and including, FDR. Each and every one of them got basically the same slams that Obama has gotten: compromising too much, half measures, too interested in finding common ground, etcetera.

[spin]

27. When you promise "Change We Can Believe In" ...

some people expect you to deliver.

That's where leadership comes into play. A great leader can change things. Being a great campaigner gets you behind the desk but then the real test begins.

There was change under JFK and would have been far more had he not been assassinated. Lyndon Johnson brought us the Great Society. Bill Clinton led us into a period of prosperity.

Obama's greatest contribution so far is a crippled version of the healthcare program he promised that will probably be far more expensive and provide a lower quality of care than the one he promised. The program is a sell out to the healthcare industry. It is not what he promised.

Perhaps he will become a true leader in his second term. I felt he would be the greatest President since FDR. He does have great ideas that would fulfill he campaign promise of "Change we can believe in."

[Raine]

35. Yes, EXACTLY on point. nt

[dameocrat67]

40. That is where Chiat simply lies

fdr was reelected 4 times and was only unpopular with marxists, but oh well.

[sabrina 1]

15. Lol!

:rofl:

[TheWraith]

17. A wonderfully inarticulate response to a thoughtful and compelling article. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Hmmm no, this has a lot more to do with it

http://www.amazon.com/Death-Liberal-Class-Chris-Hedges/dp/1568586442

[mmonk]

21. We love being told what's wrong with us as politicians screw up things.

[gratuitous]

22. Yes, I must learn to tailor my ideals to this year's fashion

It's a personal shortcoming, to be sure, and I'm trying my best to go along with the program. I keep stumbling over those "due process" notions, as well as "fair trial," “presentation of evidence,” and such-like. It certainly isn’t easy, because each President does that whole oath of office thingy, swearing to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution. It keeps making me think that the Constitution is something to be preserved, protected and defended. Almost as if without the Constitution, there would be no nation known as the United States.

I am really trying to accommodate extraordinary rendition, indefinite detention without charge or counsel, complete whitewashing of all evidence of past war crimes and crimes against humanity, lest serious crimes be reduced to mere political squabbles. Even investigating these credible charges is out of bounds, apparently, and I keep coming back to that quaint old document.

Someday soon I hope I overcome this admittedly unrealistic attachment to this relic of a bygone era, and embrace fully the wholesale sudden execution of persons all over the globe with the push of a button by someone with a joystick and a viewscreen.

Then the only disappointment I'll feel will be with myself, and I won't make the sensible liberals and pwogs unhappy anymore.

[FiveGoodMen]

25. An excellent reply!

[sabrina 1]

37. Shhh, you're supposed to forget all that and just admit,

all those ancient ideas are 'retarded'.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. How dare the people hold the guy accountabe and have expectations that he do his job For shame!

What is this? Some kind of democracy or somethin'?

[Yavin4]

24. Some Liberals Have A Profound Misunderstanding of American Politics in General

Some Liberals believe that the president, who presides over a thoroughly corrupt political process, can achieve major Liberal victories in this environment, and they are wrong.

Few legislators fear the president. Instead, they fear the money from entrenched corporate interests. For example, there was no pharamceutical provisions in the HCR law because there was no way that Sen. Evan Byah from Indiana (home to corporate big pharm giant, Eli Lilly) would ever agree to one. He alone would filibuster such a provision. Bayh is far more afraid of and beholden to the coporate interests in his state than he is to Obama.

This is what a lot of supposedly intelligent Liberals just do not understand. Sure, Obama could take on Bayh, Nelson, et al. But even if he did, why would they fear him over the big money available from the corporate interests.

Simply put, we don't have a democracy in this country. We have an oligarchy. We have a government completely controlled by entrenched big money, corporate interests. Given the context, the accomplishments that Obama has won do indeed look very impressive.

[EFerrari]

30. No, given the context, they look as meager as they are.

Unless your context is a fun house mirror.

What a ridiculous article, playing all sides against the middle and pretending that Clinton offers a discernible alternative to Obama. The best use of it is as a reminder to avoid wasting your time clicking on his articles in the future.

[Yavin4]

31. Until We Get A Real Democracy

Obama is as good as it gets.

[dimbear]

42. Good point. Republicans are pure evil, Dems only mildly evil.

Choice is obvious.

[Douglas Carpenter]

26. some liberals think they are voting out the rich and powerful and voting in "the little guy"

Particularly when a Democratic president is elected. Many genuinely do not realize that the same essential financial interest that controls the Republican Party also controls the Democratic Party. Therefore they vote on a somewhat naive perception. After all much of the campaign rhetoric reinforces this notion. Even the right-leaning media reinforces the idea that the Democrats are at odds with Wall Street. Then they are naturally disappointed when they see Democratic presidents supporting policies that run counter to this perception. In that sense there is something wrong with their perceptions.

[Raine]

32. maybe there is something wrong with the whole stinking system

that's where the rot is and that includes the Democratic Party. x(

edit: added word

[LaydeeBug]

34. If every Democratic president disappoints, maybe there’s something wrong with their performance" nt

[Number23]

36. Excellent, excellent point

Rec'd.

[deucemagnet]

41. Tweety and Joan Walsh are discussing this right now on MSNBC

On edit: Chait is on, too.

[sendero]

43. Every Dem president has not dissapointed..

... anything in the ballpark of what this last one has. No one is going to be completely happy with any president, that would be impossible.

But when you realize that you've been totally had, that he didn't mean a fucking word he said, well, your support is the least he loses.

[XemaSab]

54. Word

:thumbsup:

[gulliver]

44. These same people can find no one to represent them.

They are very much like the Republicans in that sense. Republicans can't find anyone "any good" to run for office. But that's because no one who was actually any good would want to stand for what the Republicans currently stand for. You can't find a good looking, intelligent, paranoid ignoramus.

It's something like that for the very small but vocal contingent of authentically liberal-hearted who are also Obama bashers. The two lines of thought are not in the same plane. It is no surprise they can never name anyone who actually does what they say Obama should do, at any scale of personality. Who do they want? Michael Moore? Dennis Kucinich? Jesus to come back? The "2008 Obama" they swear they saw marching beside them to glory in what they thought wasn't their imagination?

[TheKentuckian]

46. I look at the poverty, wealth accumulation, corruption, and corporate capture

and see lots of room for improvement in job performance from our "leaders".

[Crunchy Frog]

47. Or maybe there's something wrong with our party.

I understand that there are some Republicans who are very unhappy with the direction of their party too, but I'm sure there couldn't possibly be anything wrong with the current Republican party.

[Lil Missy]

48. Obama eats kittens. n/t

[joeybee12]

49. I think you meant he may be ON something...not ON TO something...

Like crack cocaine that makes one write dribble like this.

[Zorra]

55. Third Way conservative self-delusions brought on by excessive circle jerking

to fantasies of ultimately achieving GOP accolades, chronically engaged in by charter members of the Progressive Policy Institute while listening to the greatest hits of Rush Limbaugh.

Here is the Third Way PPI website, if you want a good laugh:

http://progressivepolicy.org/

[Edweird]

57. I don't know if you've noticed, but there are people protesting in the streets. It isn't going away.

You are on the wrong side of things.

[loyalsister]

58. Wilson "caved" to Republicans when he signed the 19th Amendment

People with disabilities protested FDR's policies. Kennedy was not in office long enough to earn the level of reverence he seems to get. As a pro- life womanizer, it's doubtful that he would have won much favor with women in the end.

Johnson sacrificed the Democrats in the south when he signed civil rights legislation.

The Democratic party has evolved considerably over a relatively short amount of time. Much of that sacrifice was for the better in terms of ethics. Does anyone believe that Johnson would have supported gay marriage?

Republicans have had the advantage of picking up lasting hate and entrenched "moral" assertions as political issues.
While, Democrats have had open minds allowing for diversity and by necessity- change, it leaves people wondering "where is our FDR?" perplexed.
I think the flexibility to accommodate a changing population and culture is a disconcerting strength.