When is it okay for a lawyer to lie?

[The Backlash Cometh]

I see this a lot where I live and I wonder if it's common? Apparently, it must be common to politicians too. In the on-going Greer case, Haridopolos lied about a severance package because it was a confidential contract. Can we assume that means lawyers can lie whenever they have to help cover up a confidentiality clause?

Greer adds Haridopolos to civil lawsuit against RPOF
Greer contends the $125,000 that flowed through Victory Strategies into his personal accounts were legitimate fund-raising commissions. A statewide grand jury called it fraud, money laundering and theft.

Haridopolos was deposed Nov. 17 in Tallahassee by Greer attorney Damon Chase. During the 90-minute session, Haridopolos testified that he and other party officials wanted to oust Greer for weeks because he was burning through party money and doing almost nothing to raise it.

Party attorney Jason Gonzalez negotiated Greer's departure and prepared a severance contract, Haridopolos testified. On Jan. 4, 2010, the president of the Florida Senate signed it in Melbourne, he testified.

A few weeks later, when word of the deal leaked and he was asked about it, Haridopolos lied, telling a reporter there was no severance package. He lied, Haridopolos said under oath last week, because it was a confidential contract.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/os-greer-haridopolos-20111125,0,949809.story

[iamthebandfanman]

1. ummm all the time?

i mean, thats kinda their job isnt it ?
to represent their client and what they want no matter what?

dont get me wrong, im sure there are lawyers out there that turn down cases where they know someone did it...
but im pretty sure u can tell him/her youre guilty as hell but u dont wanna admit to it :P

[bemildred]

5. +1.

One of their most important job skills, it's why so many go into politics.

[doc03]

8. +1

[DefenseLawyer]

11. No, lying is not part of the job.

The attorney client privilege is very real, so yes, a client can discuss anything with his lawyer (other than future plans to commit crime) without fear that his confidences will be revealed. That doesn't in any way mean defense lawyers are supposed to lie. As someone that has been a major felony criminal defense lawyer for seventeen years I can tell you that I have never lied to a judge or a jury or anybody else on behalf of a client. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I can tell you that prosecutors often feel more liberty to lie to obtain "justice" than defense lawyers and, sadly, police officers lie to some degree in just about every case.

[iamthebandfanman]

15. thats why i said not all lawyers..but

can i ask you what you do when your client admits guilt to you but wants to keep pleading not guilty?

i mean isnt there some level of deception that has to happen in order to protect your client? i mean, thats what youre there for right?



im pretty clueless when it comes to the practice of law , so sorry for a newb question ;)

[DefenseLawyer]

18. There are several things to keep in mind.

First, in our system of justice everyone is innocent until proven guilty. That's not some meaningless cliche, it's really true. Secondly, the Constitution gives everyone the right to a trial by jury. Thirdly, the burden of proving a person guilty rests squarely with the government. Ours is an adversarial system, where all evidence presented before a jury is subject to being questioned. With those things in mind, a defense attorney's job is to make sure that his client gets a fair trial. If the government is going to convict someone, they must do so with valid evidence which is properly collected and submitted before a jury. And the same rules apply for the most "guilty" defendant as they do for the most "innocent" ones. If the state can't prove it's case the defendant goes free. That's our system. Not to worry though, for all the misconceptions about everyone "getting off", the government prevails in well over 90% of all criminal cases. My job is to make sure they do their jobs. It has nothing to do with deception or lying and everything to do with holding the government to a very high burden. Of course the vast majority of cases do result in guilty pleas, as the evidence is such that a jury would be convinced by it.

[KamaAina]

2. When his/her lips are moving?

:eyes:

[OffWithTheirHeads]

3. They on occasion tell the truth?

Not in my experience.

[MrMickeysMom]

4. Upon lips moving?

Yes, snarky... but, true

[pinto]

6. I'm missing something. The politicians lied, don't see anything about one of the lawyers.

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

7. "What kind of lawyer are you, you can't even lie!" -- Madea

[DefenseLawyer]

9. Why are you bringing lawyers into it?

Haridopolos isn't a lawyer is he? But since you asked, it is no more okay for lawyers to lie than it is for auto mechanics or cops or professional bowlers to lie.

[The Backlash Cometh]

10. Because of the key word "confidentiality" clause or contract.

Lawyers in my area have been lying about their involvement with a community scandal for years. the impression is, that because of a confidentiality clause, no one is suppose to know the details which means that lawyers can lie or withhold information in order to protect the secrets. It just seems to be accepted, so everybody else follows their lead. Now I'm reading the same thing in the paper with Haridopolos. He thought it was okay to lie because of a confidential contract, so the only conclusion I can make is that it's okay and expected to lie if a confidentiality clause or contract is involved.

I mean, if there are ramifications for lying, what are they?

[DefenseLawyer]

13. I think lying and refusing to disclose are two different things.

If there is a confidentiality clause then the matter can't be discussed. If one is in a position where even acknowledging the existence of something could violate the agreement, one should simply refuse to discuss the matter at all. It doesn't give anyone permission, morally or legally, to lie. Obviously there are really no legal ramifications for lying to a reporter unless the lie is slanderous; while lying under oath about something at issue can result in a perjury charge.

[The Backlash Cometh]

25. Well, that explains why it's okay to lie to a reporter.

When is it okay for a lawyer to consider himself an insurer of a confidentiality clause, and then accepts to represent a HOA Association where the previous board was implicated in a conspiracy? And then the lawyer withholds the critical information from the current board? In his overzealous attempt to withhold that information, he overlooks vital information which is pertinent to the operation of the Association.

Which reminds me, if a person can prove that fraud was part of what was covered up, is there a statute of limitations?

[Deep13]

12. When it is necessary to protect a client's interests, it is not directed...

...to a court, and it is not the basis for actual fraud.

[Tom Ripley]

14. When they are elected to Congress

[Journeyman]

16. Abraham Lincoln on dishonesty and the law. . .

"There is a vague popular belief that lawyers are necessarily dishonest. I say vague, because when we consider to what extent confidence and honors are reposed in and conferred upon lawyers by the people, it appears improbable that their impression of dishonesty is very distinct and vivid. Yet the impression is common, almost universal. Let no young man choosing the law for a calling for a moment yield to the popular belief -- resolve to be honest at all events; and if in your own judgment you cannot be an honest lawyer, resolve to be honest without being a lawyer."

~ Abraham Lincoln, Notes for a Law Lecture, July 1850

[customerserviceguy]

17. To lawyers

Truth is just an obstacle to be overcome on the way to a result.

[DefenseLawyer]

19. Everyone in customer service is a douchebag

That's what I heard anyway.

[customerserviceguy]

26. Most are

at least where I work. Like with lawyering, 99% of the profession gives the rest a bad name.

[EFerrari]

27. LOL

[Orangepeel]

20. I guess they have just as much right as anybody to lie to a reporter

Like any liar, the lawyer risks the reporter finding out the truth and making him/her look like shit in the press. I don't see why a lawyer would have any more of a moral responsibility to tell the truth to a reporter than anyone else would (opinions on the obligations of that will vary).

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. When they run for, or win office.

[cherokeeprogressive]

22. It's all relative. In my experience, it's okay for a lawyer to lie when said lawyer is on your side

That said, at FR it's okay for a lawyer to lie to advance their cause, and at DU it's okay for a lawyer to lie to advance ours.

Fuck a buncha lawyers.

[snot]

23. Theoretically is never ethical for a lawyer to a lie, and

a lie may subject the lawyer to disbarment or sanctions; and if the lie breaks the law (e.g., if the lie was knowing and abets fraud), the lawyer is subject to the same liability and/or punishment that anyone else would be.

A lawyer has a duty of loyalty to her/his client, however, and may not disclose confidential information of the client, unless such disclosure is necessary in order to prevent harm that hasn't yet happened. If a lawyer is asked about a confidence that isn't within an exception to the general rule, s/he should simply refuse comment, or better yet, side-step the question.

There are refinements and exceptions to those rules, but I think that gives you a rough idea.

[kudzu22]

24. I always thought "lawyer" was just an alternate spelling of "liar"

[Blue_In_AK]

28. Sometimes they have to obfuscate when it involves

attorney-client privilege. Most of the lawyers I worked for wouldn't outright lie, but they wouldn't necessarily reveal the truth either unless it was to their client's advantage. Usually if they knew a client was guilty, they would encourage him (or her) to plead out and try to get a good deal at sentencing.

[MichaelMcGuire]

29. I would have thought it was illegal

Bend the true may be?

[backwoodsbob]

30. that is my understanding

lawyers as a rule don't lie...they just know how to tell the truth :)

[JVS]

31. A lawyer owes his client the best defense possible.

Thus the only person a lawyer should be obligated to be truthful with is his client. Reporters don't have a claim on his honesty.