Open season on senior citizens - now public pensions targeted

[MannyGoldstein]

First it was Social Security, with Obama's commission calling for an eventual 22% cut in the average recipient's benefits. Now public pensions are in the crosshairs:

From http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/21/business/economy/21bankruptcy.html?hp">Path Is Sought for States to Escape Debt Burdens in The NY Times:

Policy makers are working behind the scenes to come up with a way to let states declare bankruptcy and get out from under crushing debts, including the pensions they have promised to retired public workers.

...

“They are readying a massive assault on us,” said Charles M. Loveless, legislative director of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. “We’re taking this very seriously.”

Mr. Loveless said he was meeting with potential allies on Capitol Hill, making the point that certain states might indeed have financial problems, but public employees and their benefits were not the cause. The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities released a report on Thursday warning against a tendency to confuse the states’ immediate budget gaps with their long-term structural deficits.

“States have adequate tools and means to meet their obligations,” the report stated.

What next? Raising taxes on the wealthiest the working poor - again?

[RKP5637]

1. This will decrease demand further, the domino theory is getting a real

work out.

Yep, that's the solution, the lazy working poor are just going to have to have taxes increased so the wealthiest can have taxes cut, because of all those jobs they're creating. See, the poorer the nation is the better it will be, because the poorest can pay more and more in taxes.

:sarcasm:

[bobbolink]

35. Your logic is making me dizzy.

We poor folk could have told you this a while back.

Welcome to the soon-to-be-club.

[RKP5637]

36. Hi, yeah, me too! We're all going to be in the same bucket eventually, like

most of the US.

[bobbolink]

37. I'm too lazy to get in the bucket. So, what will they do with me?

:hi:

[RKP5637]

39. We'll have to pull you in with us all!

[bobbolink]

41. That is the company I want to keep!

Thanks for the hand up... means a lot!

:pals:

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. And this is how you set the stage for a revolt

just because people are old don't mean social unrest wil not happen. It is less likely, but it is their kids... who are healthy enough.

[Atticus]

9. "Less likely" for some, perhaps, but for others of us, we may be MORE likely to revolt.

We are old enough to have experienced what this nation has the potential to be again.

We are old enough to have put our shoulders to the wheel for Adlai Stevenson, John Kennedy, Bobby, and George McGovern; old enough to have known victims of fascism; old enough to have done our small part for labor and civil rights and peace.

And, some of us are old enough to understand that there is a difference between compromise and capitulation.

If the alternatives are being ruled by the billionaires who are financing the Tea Party or revolution, bring it.

[jwirr]

13. Beautifully put. Thank you.

[RKP5637]

40. It's not our gov. that is at fault, it's the F'en corporate takeover that has been

enabled. Eventually it will be most of the country fighting the corporators rolling over the majority of the citizens wanting to turn the country back decades and decades by their takeover of the gov. Rule by billionaires. What a F'en mess this country is becoming.

[roguevalley]

15. this is one old retired person with a teacher pension that is sharpening

her pitch fork even as we speak. Our state guarantees my pension in our Constitution. I think we have one of the harder ones to fuck over,

[MannyGoldstein]

3. Yikes! Even this gets heavily unrec-ed!

Amazing.

[mmonk]

4. They're everywhere.

[emilyg]

14. 24/7

[CTyankee]

18. We will all feel so much better with the new DU that has no Rec/Unrec.

It's gotten just plain meanspirited. We can do better. If we can't control our worst impulses, then I guess the admins will have to force us to "play nice," in Skinner's words (the TYT interview).

That's sad, but gotta happen...I hate to say "I told ya so," but...

[SidDithers]

23. +48 is heavily unreccd?..

Christ, I can't wait for rec and unrec to be gone, so the fragile egos will stop complaining about it.

Sid

[MannyGoldstein]

27. It was at first

You could see the recs going up and back down.

[sarcasmo]

5. Massive cuts in pension would make the retired folks hit the street.

[MannyGoldstein]

6. Next we'll have new taxes for sleeping in the street

Because the shiftless are avoiding property taxes by being homeless.

[sarcasmo]

7. Don't give them any idea. Once the 1% steal the pensions it wouldn't surprise me if

homeless were arrested and fined for not having a home.

[MannyGoldstein]

12. Debtor's prison, with hard labor

That'll teach 'em. We can put them to work around the homes of bankers.

[historylovr]

28. You're probably right..

Carousel would be too humane.

[Enthusiast]

17. Don't give them any ideas! nt

[cyberpj]

20. Might as well... we were the only ones outraged enough to do it in our youth!

There's more than enough going on to create the outrage now - where are young whose futures have beeen sold off? Where is their outrage? Where are THEY?

[shanti]

25. sure as hell would!

and i'll be right there with them! :mad: :grr:

[freshwest]

8. Please give me a link on that 22% figure so I can spread the word. Many are in denial.

[MannyGoldstein]

10. Letter from Social Security's Chief Actuary

It's his estimate on the effect of the commission's plan:

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/solvency/FiscalCommission_20101109.pdf

They're not talking about that letter, eh?

[freshwest]

16. Thanks, I'll share that. And no, they don't know about it.

They think Bernie Sanders (who they love, I should add) was wrong about his recent filibuster and statements since then. Or it seems they think that his alerting the public would make the whole scheme go away. Magical thinking strikes again.

[Godhumor]

26. Just remember, the commission recommending and the president implementing are 2 different things

There has been no assault on Social Security based off the recommendation as of yet.

[MannyGoldstein]

30. Given that Obama designed the Commission to recommend deep cuts

And given the huge disparity in Obama's treatment of the top 1% and the other 99%, can you forgive me for believing this is fait accompli?

[Godhumor]

43. Sure, as long as you give credit to him if he doesn't

There is not a single person here, I think, who would be nothing less than outraged if he made substantial cuts in social security, including me. If he doesn't I sure hope the response is "Good for him" instead of "I know he wanted to, he just couldn't".

[old mark]

11. K&R- The GOP's answer? "Nobody TOLD YOU to get old..." nt

[bobbolink]

42. "You brought it on yourself"

[Enrique]

19. they'll have to start demonizing retired teachers

not just working ones.

[FiveGoodMen]

21. No stopping the run-away train, is there?

[Jefferson23]

22. K&R

[JDPriestly]

24. And many of the employees of state governments do not recieve Social Security

benefits because of their state or local pensions as I understand it.

Criminal behavior. First Wall Street claims our jobs. Then they claim our pensions and Social Security.

We need real change, not Obama's short change.

[colsohlibgal]

29. Transfer Of Wealth Speeding Up

If anything comes of this watch out, all bets are off, as noted in the article the sanctity of thse pension funds in in the state constitutions. Private Companies have reneged on pension plans but now government?

You work 25-40 years and plan your golden years on that pension that you have been putting money into all these years. Then they pull the rug out.

This is not right and if they really try to pull this off I think we might reach critical mass.

Oh but God forbid people with millions or billions might have to pay another 4% on most of their money. God Forbid we should quit dribbling away trillions in empire building/war.

These are dark days in America and things may get a whole lot darker.....because also the dollar is very shaky and if Weimar Republic like hyperinflation happens most of us will be homeless and hungry.

We have a ways to go as a nation to last as long as the Roman Empire and I doubt we catch them at this rate.

[ProSense]

31. Krugman

Krugman:

If you want something to read, look at Iris Lav’s debunking of myths about state and local finances.

People like Cornyn and Gingrich are pushing the alarm buttons hard.

[hay rick]

32. Thanks for the link.

[RoccoR5955]

33. If we give it enough time, there will be a revolution.

The rich against the poor. Wait and see.

[ThoughtCriminal]

34. Tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts and tax cuts

Feeling sick? You could probably use a good bleeding - Theodorick of York

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

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