Ok... Read Essentially The Same Thing Twice In 24 Hours... "Houston...We Have A Problem"...

[WillyT]

What Obama may not understand so well is the degree of frustration inspired by him specifically among the protesters and their prime movers. Or the extent to which OWS and its energy is, as one liberal strategist puts it, is “the rotten fruit of Obamaism”—an army of young people, many of them inspired and mobilized by his campaign in 2008, who feel betrayed by his performance since he has, er, occupied the Oval Office.

“He cheated,” says Husain, who volunteered for the campaign on the belief that Obama could be a transformative president. “He ran on a platform he never intended to push. He made promises he never intended to keep. I was just amazed in his inaugural speech how little transformative there was. And then Tim Geithner—what the hell was that? And then the bailouts. It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to figure out what was going on. It was a continuation of the same bullshit.”

Then there are others who never put any faith in Obama in the first place. “The new boss is ever the same as the old boss,” says Sandy Nurse. “I think if either political party or politician thinks they have any credibility to come down here and tap into this energy, they’re gravely misinformed.”

The last point is one I heard again and again from OWSers about Team Obama’s talk of channeling the movement. “They don’t have a fucking clue what they are talking about,” says Berger. “These aren’t out here because they’re offended that they haven’t been spoken to nicely. They’re out here because they owe shitloads of money in student-loan debt and can’t find a job. Or they can’t afford their mortgage. And if Obama thinks that they’re gonna be able to divert this energy by talking about doing something, he’s got another think coming.”

From: http://nymag.com/print/?/news/politics/occupy-wall-street-2011-12/

****************************************************************************************

And...

This new movement is probably more threatening to President Obama, because many of the young people and minorities who campaigned and voted for him in 2008 might drift away to Occupy’s direct action. If Obama refuses to get tougher on reining in Wall Street, these former supporters may just skip voting in 2012. Yet this new force can ultimately help Obama if he responds to its message. Led by the young, the movement is aligning with the reviving militancy of labor and other progressive constituencies. The spirit is open-armed and patriotic, not negative and divisive. Obama should dare to lead it rather than dodge or oppose it. The Republicans are hopeless, of course, utterly in thrall to banking industry demands.

From: http://www.thenation.com/article/164767/democratic-promise-occupy-wall-street

:shrug:

[tabatha]

1. "And then the bailouts"

This was under Bush.

[girl gone mad]

20. Most of the bailouts happened on Obama's watch. n/t

[tabatha]

32. Such as ?

[bvar22]

40. Senator Obama supported, lobbied FOR, and voted FOR TARP.

Prior to voting FOR the Bailouts, he stated that he would NOT vote FOR them unless there were solid protections FOR taxpayers and transparent accountability for the funds. He then voted FOR them anyway.
While he was President, he repeatedly defended the Bailouts,
supported the obscene Bonuses,
and used the Bully Pulpit to down talk the movements for Clawbacks and Cramdowns.

"We can't befrudge them their wealth,"
I know these guys, "and they are just savvy businessmen!"

"Look at all the Baseball Players."

"Its the Free market."

TARP and the Bailouts WERE very much a Bi-partisan SCAM,
and Obama played a BIG part. Any attempt to deny that now is a BIG sack of FAIL.
Too many of us WERE Paying Attention.

Paulson with Co-Conspirators

Now THIS is Bi-Partisanship!



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[MadrasT]

47. +1000

Obama voted FOR TARP and has continued to enable and defend The Bezzle since his inauguration.

Hope & Change FAIL x 1,000,000.

[progressoid]

50. I was just about to post that same photo.

The "Bush bailout" is our bailout too. Sad but true.

[tabatha]

52. Supported the bonuses?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/30/business/30obama.html

As for the bailout, he was not responsible for the mess that got us there.

It is the same bullshit that the Repubs pulled on Iraq, threaten dire consequences so that people have no choice but to vote.

Quite frankly, I don't know how he could not have dome otherwise - and the US has made a profit on the bailouts.

That is not the most insidious part - which was the real amount of the loans made by the Fed.

Some people are totally unrealistic - Obama should be able to come in and wave a magic and fix a systematic problem that had been brewing for 8 years?

I wonder if people on this thread are not actually working for Republicans.

Obama's "bailout" of the auto industry, criticized by Republicans, saved not only millions of jobs but saved industries associated with the auto industry that would have been disastrous otherwise.

I really believe that some people cannot see the wood for the trees and just love to bitch.

[bvar22]

55. Your cite is from the Damage Control PR follow up.

Here is what really happened:

(naturally, from the foreign press)

"Last week, when President Obama was asked about the $9m dollar bonus for Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein, he described Blankfein as a savvy businessman, adding that Americans don't begrudge people being rewarded for success. While the White House later qualified Obama's comment about Blankfein and his fellow bank executives, it's worth examining more closely some of the ways in which Blankfein and the Goldman gang were "savvy".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/feb/15/goldmansachs-useconomy

"some people cannot see the wood for the trees"?

..and others simply refuse to face the painful truth.



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone

photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed

[FarLeftFist]

71. He was ONE Senator, he voted PRIOR to taking office, this is not a secret. Spare me the crying game.

[bvar22]

97. How, in any real universe, does THAT change the statement that

"Senator Obama supported, lobbied FOR, and voted FOR TARP." :shrug:

[chervilant]

84. And, now,

Hollywood gives us a sanitized version of the machinations (orchestrated primarily by Paulson and his minions) that resulted in the bailouts. Paulson should be 1/1000th the personage he is alleged to be in that movie, and that would be a VAST improvement.

[Blue_In_AK]

89. You speak truth, Bvar22. n/t

[jwirr]

61. The authorization of the bailouts did not happen under Obama. The

laws regarding them were passed in 2008. The GM money was not stimulus it was a loan something we have done in the past. All too many people are forgetting the time line here.

[lame54]

42. the final terms were Obama's

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. Continued under Obama and endorsed by him

[Pirate Smile]

2. Then it will be like '68 and help elect '12's Nixon.

[WillyT]

5. Could Just Be... Maybe Obama Sould Be More Like RFK, Than HHH...

:shrug:

[Pirate Smile]

8. Maybe. But it would have been a hell of a lot better if people would have realized that HHH was

better then Nixon.

I have no doubt that RFK would have disappointed a lot of those same protesters.

Everyone can assume a slain martyr would have done exactly what they wanted. We all know that the choices in governing never end up so clean. A dream makes it easy to imagine perfection.

[mckara]

74. HHH Hated American Policy in Vietnam

So much so, that LBJ wouldn't let him attend briefings and conferences with the military.

[femrap]

79. Typing about RFK

and your stupid, he would have disappointed, is beyond disgusting. The man is dead. You have absolutely no idea of what kind of President he would have been.

Your words are a living nightmare.

Let the dead RIP...

[Edweird]

7. The responsibility for that lies squarely on Obama's shoulders alone.

[Pirate Smile]

9. People are responsible for their own actions. They own them.

[Edweird]

12. Exactly. Obama is responsible for the policies he supports.

[Pirate Smile]

16. Sure. But that doesn't mean nobody else is responsible for their own actions which is what you wrote

[Edweird]

19. No, that is not what I wrote.

Obama supports RW policies. People are pissed that Obama supports RW policies. The consequences of Obama's support for RW policies may be that people do not vote for him.

[Le Taz Hot]

39. Incorrect.

'68 did not "help elect Nixon." Everytime this revisionist history is repeated I will feel compelled to correct it. Nixon's win was due to many factors INCLUDING the death of Robert Kennedy, Jr. ,the establishment Democrats not allowing the anti-war demonstrators anywhere near the table (sound familiar?), Daley and his goon squad, and the Tet offensive, were a few of the chief reasons. If your president were to get defeated in 2012 (he won't) Obama and the corporate brown nose Democrats will have no one but themselves to blame.

[hifiguy]

44. All that is true, and if LBJ had allowed Humphrey

to be his own man on the Vietnam issue before the last two weeks of the campaign, HHH probably would have won. Humphrey was gaining like mad on Nixon during the last ten days prior to the election.

[Vincardog]

58. Exactamundo:If your president were to get defeated in 2012 (he won't) Obama and the corporate brown

nose Democrats will have no one but themselves to blame. If they only TALK a good game AGAIN, how can they blame anyone else for THEIR FAILURE?

[Blue_In_AK]

90. That's how I remember it.

I liked Gene McCarthy myself, but I would have voted for Hubert Humphrey gladly if it hadn't been for Chicago. At that point, after all we had been through the past eight years, I couldn't take any more and dropped out of the political process altogether (except for protest marches and such) for several years. The system disgusted me, and I didn't want to have anything to do with it. 1968 was the first year I could have voted, but instead I chose to "turn on, tune in and drop out." Abrogation of my civic duty, I suppose, but I have no regrets.

[Response]

85. Then where do you assign responsibility?

[coalition_unwilling]

3. In the many hours I've spent at the Occupy Los Angeles camp at

City Hall, I have not heard one expression of support for Obama. Not one. Not surprising, since Obama has stayed entirely silent regarding the police brutality that OWS protesters have been subjected to.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

31. [phone]

[donheld]

37. Same thing in Denver

[Scuba]

38. Same deal with the protesters in Madison last spring and again this month....

... for the recall Walker rally.


Nobody, nobody, seems to be happy with the actions of the President.

[MadrasT]

48. Same in Philly

[xiamiam]

68. the only place I ever hear support for Obama is here

but not in my real life..I'm 61, not a kid..we hoped, we're pissed..and there a lot of people who feel as I do but never come to du

[a2liberal]

70. BUT THE POLLS!!!!!111

I'm surprised one of the apologists hasn't chimed in yet with one of those stupid polls that purport to show that the base loves Obama

[Marr]

87% percent want to kiss him!!!! OWS is inconsequential!

Unless Obama loses, of course. Then it's THEIR FAULT!

[Response]

86. You can cite polls until you're blue in the

link, but if you can't carry the independents, or the youth vote that supported you the last time, then things could get ugly.

The GOP are already ugly, and I don't believe that their base will be energized either with their farcical candidates. Perhaps the stalwarts from both parties will vote while the rest of Americans its this one out.

[Raster]

78. And unfortunately, you won't hear ANY expressions of support from Obama.

Because he is the same corporate horse, just a different color.

The coordinated multi-city brutality was most likely blessed and sanctioned by the Obama administration.

[femrap]

80. Well, that's good news

to me. I'm thinking that OWS should organize a Write-in Vote for 2012: NONE OF THE ABOVE.

A total shun of our current corrupted system.

Think of all the people who don't vote....they'd get out and vote for None of the Above.

[Blue_In_AK]

91. Even the same here in Anchorage. n/t

[villager]

4. good post, though the whistling-past-graveyard comments also reflect White House mentality too

"All we have to do is say we're not Republicans! Virtually nothing else is required of us!"

[sendero]

23. Obama shares many things with the Bush ..

.. way of doing things but chief among them is the idea that he can say anything, go back to the white house and do EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE, and nobody will notice.

Well, now as then only the stupid stupid stupid don't notice. Unfortunately, not all stupid people are Republicans.

[Marr]

73. Not so much that the public won't notice-- more like it doesn't matter if they do.

Sort of a 'who cares what the little people think' attitude.

[WildNovember]

93. That is the attitude of the entire political class, I think. They don't think we matter.

We're just pawns to be lied to, manipulated, and laughed at behind our backs. Yes, I actually believe they laugh at us in private.

[Edweird]

6. They just need to see the pics from 'date night' and the 84% gallup poll. PS-I.T.Y.S.

[WillyT]

10. What Is...I.T.Y.S. ???

Just curious.

:hi:

[Edweird]

11. I Told You So

Not you, WillyT, but the people here that declare anger at Obama's RW policies 'unpossible' and hide behind Gallup polls.

[WillyT]

13. thankyou

:blush:

:bounce:

:hi:

:pals:

[WillyT]

15. I Get Enough Heat... That I Thought It Might Mean... I Think You Suck !!!

My bad...

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:shrug:

:banghead:

:hi:

[Edweird]

17. You're OK in my book.

:toast:

[WillyT]

24. Way Cool !!!

:toast:

:hi:

[Pirate Smile]

18. Who were you for in 08?

I ask because of the ITYS

[Edweird]

25. Obama. He wasn't my first choice, but he was our nominee.

[woo me with science]

33. A lot of people still had hope in 2008.

They weren't massing in the streets like now, either.

[woo me with science]

14. K&R Well, of course. nt

[MisterP]

21. if he wants to stop being seen as Bushlike, he should stop acting Bushlike

[Enthusiast]

63. Good suggestion.

He acts as if Bush was a net positive on foreign policy and even much of the domestic policy. Why would he promote and continue the Bush lies? This has been very disturbing for Obama supporters.

I want someone I feel good about voting for. I certainly don't want to see Newt in the White House.

[Octafish]

22. ''It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to figure out what was going on.''

[emcguffie]

45. Would you mind very much explaining that picture?

I haven't a clue. I Can't even read the blackletter.

thank you.

[Octafish]

51. It's a work on trepaning by Hieronymus Bosch: ''The Extraction of the Stone of Madness.''

The stone of folly or the stone of madness refers to a hypothetical procedure in the 15th century involving trepanation and extraction of a stone, thought to be the cause of the patient's madness. This procedure is demonstrated in the painting The Extraction of the Stone of Madness by Hieronymus Bosch. The procedure and the painting depicting it inspired the 2002 short film of the same name.

SOURCE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_of_madness

The nuttiness applies to our nation's politics, from my perspective, since Nov. 22, 1963.

[emcguffie]

98. Thank you.

Sorry this took so long.

Thanks again for replying. ANd yes, I see your point.

[Huey P. Long]

59. one of my favorite artists. -eom

[Octafish]

65. Mine, too. You may also enjoy DUer Swamp Rat....

Guy knows rocket science, too.

[Blue_In_AK]

92. Where is Swamp Rat anyway?

I really miss those graphics and Swampie's wry sense of humor.

[bluestate10]

26. Nothing to see here. Different day, same agenda. President Obama and democrats

have 1000% support from me.

[WillyT]

27. Really ??? - Cool... As Long As You Don't Need The Power And Energy Of The Youth Vote...

Which is what "sealed it" for Obama in 2008.

:shrug:

:hi:

[sad sally]

35. Support sealed in 2008 by millions has been dashed by:

Declaring war on his own without seeking congressional approval or the need.
Enhancing search warrants against citizens.
Killing via drones without warning or even the need, including US citizens.
Using militarily-armed police as a force in dispensing domestic laws against citizens.
Letting federal agents write their own search warrants in defiance of the Constitution.
Deciding prisoners, who were never charged with a crime, weren’t entitled to a jury trial.
Declaring US and foreign citizens as terrorists without needing any proof.
Keeping the prisons over-populated with so-called drug crimes which harmed or didn't harm anyone except the person arrested.

What does voting in 2012 mean to me? Nothing, because my political party along with the "other" belongs to someone or something I do not recognize anymore.

[Number23]

28. Every day there is another declaration that "insert group X" has abandoned the president

The usual suspects swoon in glee. A week later it's completely debunked.

Frenchiecat broke it down beautifully - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=816561&mesg_id=816735

And make sure to note her last line as it directly relates to this OP -- "SO OF COURSE, YOUNG PEOPLE WOULD BE NEXT......" and this was from damn near two weeks ago.

Like you said. Different day. Same agenda. From the same tired folks.

[WillyT]

29. Well I'll Admit... I'm Conflicted... OTOH... The President And The Democratic Party...

Cannot try and co-opt the #OWS Movement, and the #OWS Movement would be deligitamized by asking common council with the ANY political movement.

But... if the Administration starts doing the correct thing in front of the movement... it will know where to go.

It's called... LEADERSHIP!!!

:shrug:

[Number23]

36. "I'm Conflicted"

If you say so.

[pscot]

57. You seem to find all this a terrible bore

But I have a hard time understanding your complacency. How do you explain the fact that so many loyal Democrats are alienated by the President's policies, or does it just not matter? Are we all just stupid? Immature? Chronically predisposed to complain? What do you sppose has gotten into us?

[Number23]

60. What data do you have that supports this statement?

How do you explain the fact that so many loyal Democrats are alienated by the President's policies,

And for your sake, I hope that none of your "data" includes any of the threads or comments on DU.

[Caretha]

77. Your 1000% still only equals one vote :)

[Fantastic Anarchist]

30. If we hitch our wagon to the Democratic Party ...

... we're going to be in a world of hurt. Obama already showed his true colors. He's not in it for us. He'll try to woo us with eloquent speeches. Let's not get f'f'fooled again.

[lonestarnot]

34. K & R!

[bvar22]

41. Obama had an ARMY Standing in the Streets in 2009.

Obama's Army, Jan. 21, 2009

"Oh, What could have been."


Instead, Obama's Army is now marching without him.
How sad is THAT?
He coulda been a contender.





You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[hifiguy]

46. Amen to that. nt

[MadrasT]

49. "Instead, Obama's Army is now marching without him."

Wow. That's exactly what OWS is, in a nutshell.

[Lorien]

62. Yep. nt

[Islandlife]

53. Amazing what political marketing can do

Another bad tattoo. It happens too often.

[Enthusiast]

64. He acted as if he had no mandate.

He allowed the blue dogs and minority Republicans push him around like a feather. It was shocking, really. If we see social security and medicare cut it will come right back to Obama extending the Bush tax cuts.

[woo me with science]

81. Wow. Stunning post.

And so true.

[kath]

88. Oh, god, it's so painful to look at pictures of that day and of election night.

I'm so frickin' disgusted & disappointed with him.

[Raksha]

96. Obama's army is now an Army of Occupation. n/t

[Major Hogwash]

54. How many of those disillusioned OWS people skipped voting last year?

Thinking they had done their part by showing up to the polls in 2008.
The tea party coalition got 87 members elected to the House of Representatives last year.
That didn't happen in a vacuum.

[bvar22]

56. IT is the JOB of LEADERSHIP to Motivate the Troops.

If The Voters did NOT turn out in 2010,
it is a Failure of Leadership....Nothing Else.

Blaming the Voters solves NOTHING.
You can't CHANGE The Voters.
But Blaming the Voters DOES allow Leadership to escape from acknowledging their failure,
which only ensures MORE failure.

You can't Fix the Voters,
but you CAN address Failures of Leadership and solve the problems.

If Leadership wants voters to Turn Out,
then Leadership must give them something to Turn Out FOR.
If you promise them "CHANGE",
but deliver the Same Old Shit in a different wrapper,
then don't expect them to turn out.
That IS how it works.

"I've seen it happen time after time. When the Democratic candidate allows himself to be put on the defensive and starts apologizing for the New Deal and the Fair Deal, and says he really doesn't believe in them, he is sure to lose. The people don't want a phony Democrat. If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat, and I don't want any phony Democratic candidates in this campaign."
---President Harry Truman

QED:2010


Leadership! "The Buck Stops HERE!" NO Excuses!




You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[WildNovember]

94. Yes. Why is that seemingly so hard to understand? If the administration were

doing things the troops were enthusiastic about, the troops would be there in support. If they're not, it's not because they're lazy, stupid, or evil -- it's because they don't support what you're doing, or don't benefit from it. I keep reading posters who act like the low enthusiasm is a willful act to deliberately thwart Obama. Maybe there's some Machiavellian DC types who act on that level, but most ordinary people don't.

[MannyGoldstein]

66. If OWS didn't hear Candidate Obama say he'd fight tirelessly for

"Free" trade, extrajudicial torture, imprisonment, and execution, a war on whistleblowers, endless gifts to bankers, and a war on medical marijuana, they just weren't paying attention.

Not Obama's fault.

[xiamiam]

69. helping main street instead of wall street which I haven't heard since the campaign

he sure cant use that again

[woo me with science]

82. Thank you. nt

[Itchinjim]

67. Pfffft.

My lips are getting sore.

[Citizen Worker]

72. The first two paragraphs describe my rationale for voting for Obama. I won't do it again, once was

enough!

[kath]

87. Same here.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

75. It should be obvious that neither party wants meaningful change,

but that's exactly whats needed, it's needed around the world.
We are rapidly coming to a tipping point, if not already there.

In this country we need a new party at the very least, to bring about the changes that have to occur.
Neither party will allow those changes to happen voluntarily.

So, do we really have the numbers of well educated people that are ready and willing to carry out extreme change?

[DaveJ]

76. Is this what you expected from Obama?

Not gonna happen. In the real world, it's unrealistic to expect THIS no matter who you elect.

[syberlion]

83. There will be no single "Savior"

Unless and until the population moves to get the money out of the political system, it wouldn't matter if you had a third, fourth or even a fifth party. True, you would dilute the money, because you would have monied interests spreading the money around to "cover all bets." Just as we have now, where big donors give to both existing parties. They stick their proverbial finger in the air to figure out which way the population's whims are moving and donate accordingly. This wouldn't change with adding additional parties.

There is a saying, Money is the root of all evil." So, as long as there is money driving the political system, you'll continue to have what we have now. At this time in America, we have money and monied interests represented in Washington, period. It will take 100,000 Occupy Wall Streets, probably more, before change will even begin to happen. As someone said recently, "We are all black now."

There is a fundamental shift needed back to "We the people" and it is going to be fought hard by those currently running the show. The established hierarchy doesn't like being challenged. Until those in power get bold enough to just end elections altogether, we still have a chance at change, slim but still a chance.

As for a single savior showing up to throw the money-changers out, that's not going to happen. But what will happen is enough people will get up off their collective butts and perform a collective heave-ho just as they did in Wisconsin. No single person, but collectively they signed the re-call petitions, collectively they got out the vote, and collectively they caused change.

When Obama talked about America being lazy, in going after economic markets, I have to say there is a laziness in how we approach our politics and in the governance of this country. I'm just as guilty of it as anyone else. We've grown complaisant and as long as we have our TV's and our internet, what does it matter who's running things?

So, we've allowed the few to slowly erode the system built to withstand a civil war, two world wars, Joe McCarthy, the First Major Depression and yet, since Reagan we've allowed our Constitutionally given rights to be shrunk, election by election until soon, those rights will be drowned in a bathtub and there won't be anyone left to pay for the headstone.

The response by the police to OWS is intended to send a message. Don't screw with the system as we have it, it works for us, period. So, we must stop waiting for some single "Savior" and follow the lead of the leaderless. Occupy Washington DC, Occupy Congress, Occupy the news, Occupy America and get the people back into representing and get the money out of politics. Never said it was going to be easy.

[burrowowl]

95. May Obama get his

ASS in the right gear! Damnit!