I have a question (and you can flame me all you want)

[Juneboarder]

even though it isn't my intention. I just wonder... with all the silence from the White House along with the previous actions of the White House (i.e. extending tax cuts to the wealthy, bailouts to the banks, transparency just to name a few) being against what was promised to us in the elections, should we really believe a change in heart from the White House?

To me, I feel lack of response is a silent support of the 1%, and previous actions were geared towards the 1% mainly. One has to question the change in heart (if it comes) and its true intentions because how can one succumb to the greed of the 1% and then all of the sudden things are going to CHANGE? Remember, we've been promised change before.

I am not declaring a stance; I am more confused, trying to figure things out here and wanted to get some input from any others if you care to share.

[trumad]

1. 1% = White House?

I can go with that.

[Juneboarder]

8. If they don't equal each other

then the WH is definitely supporting the 1%.

[truedelphi]

30. Many on this board still refuse to realize

That so much of what any Administration does has to do with the appointments.

Obama has appointed Big Banking friend Tim Geithner to head the Treasury.

Monsanto people now are at the top position at the FDA, and at the Ag Department. And with Sotomayer being on the SCOTUS (At least in part) because she will vote for Monsanto when us food activists try to legally enforce that food crops must remain edible.

The all war, all the time philosophy continues unabated.

And the BP epic, where Big Oil owned by a foreign company polluted our Gulf of Mexico. And Obama allowed BP to be in charge of the 'Cleanup." He also allowed the EPA to give the go ahead on Corexit - a very toxic chemical. It ws "tested" for a week, and since the fish didn't die during those seven days, it was deemed safe. (View video in my sig links for further information.)

His appointment of Rahm Emanuel to be his Chief of Staff came as a blow to those of us who thought the WH was about ending NAFTA, not promoting one of NAFTA's major architects.

[lunasun]

45. All the Monsanto moves sealed it for me dont forget E. Kagan too on SCOTUS

[Bryn]

2. No flame from me

I agree with you. That's why we have OWS. Wall Street owns our government.

[Juneboarder]

4. I'm just wondering because we get closer and closer to elections

And look at the clowns on the right. I mean, what to do, what to do...

[tblue]

9. That's the campaign strategy.

"Fear Republicans!"

It doesn't exactly thrill me though.

[Juneboarder]

14. You know what would thrill me...?

Seeing Cain and Obama debate, lol. I know it would never happen, but... :-)

[tblue]

18. I was just saying that today!

Man, you wanna see TV ratings go through the roof?!

[Ruby the Liberal]

3. Take this for what its worth

but the incumbents have another election to buy in 2012. With the POTUS, this is end game - there is nothing else after the 2012 election, so (other than down ticket races), he doesn't need 1% cash after elected to a second term. Shit sandwich from now until next year at this time, them depending on who buys what congressional seat, potential legislation to help actual people.

Maybe?

[Juneboarder]

5. Good point

and a good way to look at it. That 1% is really good in their manipulations though.

I am glad we have OWS and can't wait for this movement to grow further and further and... :)

[elleng]

6. Yes, more than 'maybe' imo, assuming repugs don't steal again,

[dddem]

20. that's what I'm hoping for

[Edweird]

22. Nonsense. The very reason Obama is in trouble is because of his policies.

If he was doing right by the people he wouldn't need the 1%'s money.

[emilyg]

42. Good point.

[doc03]

7. Like I heard Buddy Roemer say on Morning Joe

Obama talks the talk about the 1% then whats he do, goes to Wall Street and has a $35000 a plate fundraiser sponsored by Goldman Friggin Sachs.

[tblue]

10. That is BO's M.O.

Only thing that changes is the rhetoric. He has a great way of saying what people want to hear.

[Juneboarder]

11. Exactly what I'm talking about

How can we trust what's being said to us. I've always thought actions speak louder than words. Talkin the talk is one thing, but ya gotta walk the walk too.

[tblue]

15. "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain"?

Remember we must happy to cheering the speeching of Dear Leader please. ;)

[cherokeeprogressive]

35. Obama will surely take his seat at the 1% table once his tenure is over. SURELY.

He'll eat at the trough whose other patrons he so eagerly and stealthily convinced us we should hate.

[PeaceNikki]

12. Believe whatever you want but KNOW that things would be even worse with an (R) in there.

I know people really don't like the idea of holding their noses and going with the 'lesser of 2 evils', but things really could and would be worse. If you can't muster the idea of supporting POTUS financially or with your time, find local Democrats that you can focus on to help build up as leaders of the party. I'd bet you have plenty in your backyard. But please don't be discouraged enough to not vote or to vote third party, it will only hurt us all. Being in Wisconsin, we feel the pain of Democrats being discouraged enough to not get out and vote. If we'd have shown up better at the polls, we could have stopped this mess and we're trying very hard to make it right. Please find local Democrats, they may help you find the real hope and change.

[Juneboarder]

19. Oh, I'll be voting... cause I'm over 21 :)

Just trying to get a consensus of opinion. I debate this in my mind quite often and know that if McCain had won stuff would be a lot worse. I have never voted repuke and don't plan on it. I am focusing on my local occupy group than I am with the local democratic party; but that's just me. I'm looking for real change in this fascist state.

[PeaceNikki]

21. Cool. My soul was crushed and I had totally stopped caring after 2010 elections.

Walker winning, Feingold losing, I said "FUCK IT ALL". Then Wisconsin revolted. And our state Senate and Assembly stood with the people every step and fought and keep fighting. They breathed life and hope back into me and I've been working with my local party and am proud to be a Democrat again. :)

[noise]

13. No

Change of heart would be nothing but a PR stunt.

[tblue]

16. Expect it.

It's on the menu.

[Motown_Johnny]

17. well

the Bush tax cuts extention was in exchange for things like extending unemployment insurance, and the bank bail out was the previous administration.


My usual copy and paste response to these posts is getting kinda old but I still go with it.





you seem to be ignoring:


Two great choices for Supreme Court.

The Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act

The Matthew Shepard Hates Crimes Prevention Act (which they said could not be done)

Children's Health Insurance

Tobacco Regulation

Credit Card Reform

Student Loan Reform

The Stimulus (including the largest tax cut ever, the largest investment in clean energy ever, the single largest investment in education in our country ever)

Health Reform

Wall Street Reform

The New G.I. Bill

The Food Safety Modernization Act (the most expansive food reform bill since the 1930s)

The Don't Ask Don't Tell Repeal

The New Start Treaty (even when the (R)s said he would never be able to get it passed)

Locking up over half the loose nuclear material in the world in less than half of his first term, something most (R)s thought impossible.




Most of that list is from The Rachel Maddow Show and is included in this clip
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#4077 ...

In that clip she also estimates that ~85% of what President Obama said he wanted to accomplish in his first term had been accomplished in the first half of his first term.

[libinnyandia]

23. Plus he has said next time he won't extend the Bush tax cuts for

the wealthy. Congress is so dysfunctional by its very nature, giving much more power to small, mostly conservative, states

[cherokeeprogressive]

36. My Mom used to say "next time" I did THAT, she'd take a belt to my ass.

She didn't mean it any more than he does.

[libinnyandia]

52. We'll have to wait and see.

[NYC_SKP]

24. Hear, Hear, Motown_Johnny! Context is everything...

It's easy to be critical, especially in the echo chamber of a discussion board.

But when one takes all of the President's actions in the context of the times, the nearly apocalyptically failing economy, an ineffectual congress, and all the rest, one can see that we got lucky in finding the likes of Barack Obama.

And, I'll add, anyone who sits out the election or votes for anyone running against Obama is an enemy of mine and an enemy of the future of this country.

That's just common progressive sense, right there.

:patriot:

[PeaceNikki]

26. I am also confused about what they expected from Obama.

Anyone who knew his record knew he was no 'liberal lion'. The only ones who thought so were the right-wing idiots screaming "SOCIALIST"!! He's always been pragmatic. :shrug:

[Juneboarder]

27. Well expections are soooo overrated, but

I guess I thought I could believe in what he was saying??? :shrug:

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PeaceNikki]

32. I think the poster in this subthread discussed his campaign promises and status.

Here are a few more: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-kept/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/

[Juneboarder]

25. And my respose to your cut/paste...

I think that a barter to the 1% is just extending our downward spiral. Tit for tat is what it has come to. They're allowed to rape and pillage us, but we got 2 more years of u/e. That gave us two more years to sink further than we already are and more of a hole to crawl out of.

Credit card reform? I have been hearing of credit cards trying to start up debtors prisons again...

Student Loan Reform? I want to say OWS is out there because of the accumulated student debts and lack of jobs...

Wall Street Reform? See my comment above re: OWS

Food Safety? We'll see what Monsanto has in store for us...

Stimulus? Didn't that just allow the 1% to continue pillaging our country?

I don't know, just some thoughts.

[bhikkhu]

28. "the previous actions of the white house..."

IF you were paying attention in 2008, the markets were in a panic over what was going to happen in the banking sector, and the WH, the Fed, and Congress were all perfectly and publicly clear that they would do what they had to to prevent collapse. That very clearly and publicly was to bail-out the banks, and it was stated far more often than it needed to be for the sake of reassurance.

You can say we'd be better to have let it collapse, but people who say that aren't people who would be responsible to pick up the pieces after the fact. Nobody who has looked at the 2008/09 crisis can credibly say that letting the banks and the insurers and the markets collapse would have put us in the right direction as far as jobs, prosperity, equality or anything else.

Tax cuts to the wealthy were extended at a point when three things were very much wanted by the president - to extend the tax cuts to the middle class, to the poor, and to extend unemployment benefits. At that time as well the repugs had been blocking all three unless the tax cut for the wealthy was also extended. Also at that time was the midterm elections, and how the deal was made was hitched ultimately to the results of that - either the repugs or the dems would hold the upper hand, depending on the composition of the incoming congress. As it happened, we got our asses kicked, and the best Obama could do was cut the best quick deal possible, which gave him the three things he wanted, and gave the repugs the one thing they wanted. Holding out for a better deal was not going to happen, and raising everyone's taxes while ending unemployment benefits for millions would have been destructive and stupid.

I don't know about transparency so much - I know there were a great many hopes and plans, and not all were followed through in all cases. But one the other hand the rule to hold bills for three days before a vote has been held to, which is good. Also, you can read the current text of any bill at the Library of Congress site, which is something not possible before. Its one thing I appreciate and use regularly - and I wonder if anyone who thinks transparency is a "fail" has gone and read proposed legislation, or followed it through versions and amendments online? Give it a try - you might be surprised and learn a thing or two!

[Juneboarder]

33. I was paying attention in '08, and to answer your last sentance...

my post was to get a gathering of opinion and discuss to help me learn others' opinions. Sorry if I made you upset.

[bhikkhu]

44. Not upset at all...but there's my opinion!

for whatever its worth :)

[A Simple Game]

50. In regards to your second paragraph, I don't know if it would have

been better to let the banks collapse, but I do know the bail out as it was done was a waste of money as far as the normal taxpayer is concerned. Pieces to pick up? Have you noticed that the pieces are still laying all about us? The only area that got cleared was the bank parking lot, everywhere else is still a mess. Giving money to the banks only helped the banks, not the public or the government. The money could have been used for loan guarantees and or subsidies for mortgages.

As for the rest of it, the hedge funds and the derivatives, as far as I am concerned they are little more than a glorified ponzi scheme and were no responsibility of mine or any other taxpayer.

[MannyGoldstein]

29. Last month, Obama joined the Republicans in passing three "free" trade bills

That were originally introduced by George Bush.

Think about it. Think about what that says about Obama's thoughts on the 99%.

[woo me with science]

47. Indeed. nt

[woo me with science]

34. Of course. That is why we have people massing in the streets.

If people still had hope for fundamental change from the ballot box, do you think they would be out there risking frostbite and ruptured spleens and brain damage and pepper spray in the face?

When Obama was swept into office with both houses of Congress in 2008, people still had hope that his election would bring fundamental change.

After three years of not only enabling corporate rule in virtually every major policy area but actively promoting it and turning what used to be right-wing talking points into bipartisan talking points, that illusion has been pretty much demolished.

If this President has accomplished anything, it has been to wake people up to the fact that both parties are to a large extent bought and paid for by the banks and corporations, and that we must demand and enforce change ourselves.

Support OWS.

[Juneboarder]

37. Oh, I definitely support OWS

I just haven't heard much in the lines of direction when it comes to elections, and with elections looming these thoughts cross my mind. I have the duty to vote, but yet they're all in it for the 1%...

[roseBudd]

38. In 2008, the economy contracted 6.8%, Job One was to prevent a Depression

Thank you President Obama, congressional Democrats & Ben Bernanke

http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/documents/End-of-Great-Recession.pdf

April 17, 2009 the day Republicans voted against the stimulus

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/29/national/main4485321.shtml

Wall St watched Washington with shock and fear as the bailout package flamed out on Capital Hill. The result on Wall St was a history-making 777-point nosedive.

The financial crisis, continued to spread
"I've heard from numerous businesses that they're running out of cash," Zandi said. "So that means if they don't get relief from their bankers soon, in the next few days or couple of weeks, they will be laying off workers and shutting operations."

Among 160 COMPANIES IN DANGER OF DEFAULTING over the next 12 months, according to Standards Poors are: United Airlines, General Motors; Six Flags; &Trump Entertainment Resorts.

It takes an incredible amount of fear to set off such an intense reaction on Wall Street, and the worry now is that with the $700 billion plan fate uncertain, no one knows how the financial sector hobbled by hundreds of billions of dollars in bad mortgage bets will recover.

While investors didn't believe that the plan was a panacea, and understood that it would take months for its effects to be felt, most market watchers believed it was a start toward setting the economy right after a CREDIT CRISIS THAT BEGAN MORE THAN A YEAR AGO AND THAT HAS SPREAD OVERSEAS"

[Juneboarder]

39. What were those 160 companies that were in danger of defaulting?

The article referenced 1%'ers as examples of the 160 companies...? I mean... :wtf:

[roseBudd]

40. you do know that companies defaulting means massive layoffs, correct?

Layoffs of the 99%

Zandi of Moodys.com:

April 2009

"The clock is ticking," said economist Mark Zandi. "We need to have some relief very rapidly."

Zandi says the credit markets are still frozen, and Main Street could feel the effects within weeks.

"I've heard from numerous businesses that they're running out of cash to operate their everyday business," Zandi said. "So that means if they don't get relief from their bankers soon, in the next few days or couple of weeks, they will be laying off workers and shutting operations."

1.22.2008, barely one month into the Great Recession

"The threat of recession is evident in the recent substantial increase in unemployment. The jobless rate has risen 0.6 percentage points from its 4.4% cyclical low last March to 5% in December. Recessions are always preceded by such a rise, and one has never occurred without a recession ensuing.

Unemployment is typically the catalyst for a recession spiral because increased joblessness undermines
consumer confidence and thus consumer spending. Businesses respond to flagging sales by cutting back investment and payrolls, and unemployment rises further. A negative, self-reinforcing cycle begins."

[Juneboarder]

43. I stand with the 99%

and I do see and understand what you are saying. I guess the devil's advocate in me just looks at it and wonders what if the defaults happened? What if the 99% showed up then instead of now? Less of a mess to clean up at the least... I don't know. I'm young and didn't live through the 60's or the Great Depression. My education did include government, but I was probably one of the last year's before it was removed from the education system. This is why I question motives, sources, what if's. I just feel any support of the 1%, the corporations, the banks, the hedge fund traders, the wall streeters basically says they're part of the problem we are dealing with today.

And I thank you for taking the time to discuss :)

[roseBudd]

46. 70% of GDP is dependent on consumer spending, the Great Recession is devastating because

it was caused by a financial crisis and a housing bubble that crippled the very sector that typically leads economic recovery. Lost equity means consumers are still deleveraging

President Obama, Ben Bernanke and congressional Democrats saved the global economy from a fate I shudder to think about

And Tea Republicans who have captured the house are doing everything they can to damage that economy

Shame on us, for letting that happen, due to not turning out

[Major Hogwash]

49. Odd how the facts get in the way of the arguments made here against Obama.

I have no doubt that most of the tea party coalition members in the House of Representatives will go down in flames next year, after they pulled a coup d'etat on the Republican party last year.

Everyone whines about President Obama's promises, but what about the promises made in 2010 by the tea party coalition to create jobs?

And this is the one outstanding factor that remains to this day -- they didn't do what they said they would do -- create jobs.
They can blame it on President Obama, they can blame it on the Democrats in the Senate, or they can blame it on the weather.

But the one thing that stands out today that will still be there next November on the 12th, when we vote, according to Governor Perry, the results will trump (pun intended as an unintended consequence of The Donald running his mouth this year)their rhetoric.
People don't care about passionate speeches, they care about results.

And the tea party coalition has failed to create any new jobs.

[Raine]

41. No flame from me, The words may change

but the actions always stay the same and always favor the 1% x(

[lunatica]

48. Nothing like presenting one side as the totality and claiming confusion

unrec'd for catapulting the propaganda

I'm willing to listen if there's some attempt at objectivity. There's none of that here.

[A Simple Game]

51. You mean I read this whole thread for nothing? Wish you had told me sooner.

What propaganda are you talking about. I thought this was actually a nice thread with a civil discourse and many facts presented on both sides.

If you don't want to or are unable to contribute, don't, but taking a dump on a nice thread before you leave is not nice.

[lunatica]

53. Did you see who I responded to?

The thread is fine. The pretense depression is just that. A pretense.

Some people respond to the OP. Maybe you'll notice that if you pay attention. It usually shows who people are responding to. Just saying...

[A Simple Game]

55. You responded to the OP, so? Why is it that some people

never answer questions, they just ask more.

What is the propaganda? People that pay attention would like to know.

[blkmusclmachine]

54. "Change" already happened:

We went from bad to worse.