Fact Checking the Presidential Debates

[No Elephants]

I suggest several sources of fact checking, inasmuch as the fact checkers, like the rest of us, are biased--and most media lean right.

Factcheck.org via Annenberg Public Policy Center (Obama used to sit on an Annenberg board, along with Ayers)

http://factcheck.org/2012/10/dubious-denver-debate-declarations/

Huffpo

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/03/debate-fact-check_n_1937831.html?1349316405&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000008


AP Not as bad as it was under Ron Fournier, but still right-leaning, IMO

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_PRESIDENTIAL_CAMPAIGN_FACT_CHECK?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-10-04-03-00-20

ABC Also right leaning, IMO, or at least, rather predictably critical of Obama

http://news.yahoo.com/fact-check-presidential-debate-missteps-024654641.html

MTV (yeah, you heard me, MTV)

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1694911/barack-obama-mitt-romney-presidential-debate-fact-check.jhtml



I have not read each of the articles yet, so I hope they did not all just copy from AP, as the NY Daily News did, or from each other.



IMO, each campaign should put out a statement responding to the checked facts, one by one.

[Divine Discontent]

1. ABC was so critical of Obama. saw just 2 or 3 min before turning off tv, and even Ms Brazile seemed

tired and bored. ha!

I dunno, we'll have to see how this changes things, if anything, I think it may tighten up Florida to 1 pt, but Ohio is safe, and frankly, if the pres wins Ohio, he'll win the presidency, even if it's by a few electoral votes.


http://www.zazzle.com/gop_2012_keeping_millions_out_of_work_to_put_one_bumper_sticker-128944374900409113?rf=238107662556833486

[Enthusiast]

4. Is ABC affiliated with Fox News?

They share news broadcasts with the local Fox in Columbus!

Every evening at 11:30 channel six would run something they called "Point, Counter Point", IIRC. Anyway this guy would come on and just eviscerate Democrats and left leaning anyone. It was fully as bad as Limbaugh. The guy always had this really angry look on his face. Nearly every word was a lie. So I cannot tell the difference between Fox and ABC. I never turn on ABC unless there is a vital football game on. :beer:

[No Elephants]

5. I think Obama will win the Oval Office. But he should have won that debate, hands down.

[Enthusiast]

2. Did the President look exhausted?

He was not his usual sharp self. Or was it just me? He seemed to allow Mitt's lies to go unchallenged. But he often allows the right to frame and win the argument. What do you think, DD and No Elephants?

[No Elephants]

3. Obama is good when he is speechifying.

I have never thought him to be a stellar debater.

Even in the primaries against Hillary, where I thought he was at his best in debates, he looked and sounded exhausted.

I remember mentioning that to a good friend at the time, who reminded me Obama was the Jackie Robinson of politics and was probably going through more per day on the campaign trail than we could imagine.

At that time, that made a lot of sense, but, in hindsight, his speeched were still good.

I just don't think debating is his strong suit.

[Enthusiast]

6. Okay.

I watched all the debates with Hillary. I just don't remember candidate Obama quite this listless.

I was afraid maybe Obama took a dive. I actually felt sort of sorry for him. Jim reined in Obama's use of time while he allowed Mittens to bully him and run over. It was extraordinary.

[No Elephants]

8. I believe I heard that Obama used the most time during his debate with Romney.

I do remember discussing four years ago how exhausted Obama seemed.

And also that I said it was surprising, given how much younger he was than Hillary.

He's about that much younger than Romney as well, but, now, we have to say that it because of his Presidential duties.

On edit: Found cite on the more time thing. Obama spoke for almost five minutes longer than Romney.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-10-04/entertainment/bal-tv-debate-obama-struggles-romney-dominates-20121003_1_gop-candidate-mitt-romney-obama-struggles-tv-terms

[Enthusiast]

7. "I remember mentioning that to a good friend at the time

, who reminded me Obama was the Jackie Robinson of politics and was probably going through more per day on the campaign trail than we could imagine."

That's the damn truth. Every racist in a country full of racists blames him when it rains. You can only imagine the slights and abuses he has to suffer through. Seriously. And that ain't white liberal guilt speaking either.

[No Elephants]

9. Yep. It is astounding how "us" and "them" we are.

I sometimes think some of it is hard wired at this point, from a combination of realities of "cave man" days and natural selection.

Not necessarily only race, either, but "us" and "them" in general.

When I was in college, a friend said, "We're all racist. Don't waste time denying it. Just admit it and spend the rest of your life trying to make up for it."

I don't know if I agree 100% or, again, if I would limit it to race. I think of the grief early Irish and Italian immigrants endured. But, I don't see a lot of downside to the bits about not wasting time on denial, just making a lifelong effort to correct course.


The dog whistles from Republicans like Gingrich and Sununu about the President's debate performance could not be louder, either. Maddow played videos last night. Disgusting. They may as well have called him a porch you know what.

[Enthusiast]

10. Yeah, Gingrich and Sununu are right out there.

Ever listen to Limbaugh? I seldom listen as I did in the past. But, on every occasion I have listened, he constantly implies that black people and people of color in general are problematic for some reason or another. And Limbaugh rails against "political correctness". One day he was complaining that he couldn't call people the names he wanted to because of the limitations of political correctness. He meant he couldn't call Obama, and others, excuse the term, niggers, that much was clear.

Political correctness is a favorite topic of mine. I always know if something is from a right wing source if there is complaining about political correctness. In my mind political correct language is simple civility. When simple civility breaks down society will experience what we did in late 1920s-30s Germany. Cruel speech directed toward Jews and other minorities eventually escalated into violence. I think it is safe to say that this would also hold true for the United States of America.

People tend to think the U.S. is exempt from such things because as a nation we are exceptional and special. Unfortunately it isn't true. I fear we are about to find that out in a very up-close and personal way.

[No Elephants]

11. I have never set out to listen to Limbaugh. When a tape of Limbaugh is played

on a show that I am watching, or the news, I, of course, watch and listen.

An example is when he was doing his "impression" of Michael Fox's allegedly faked or exaggerated Parkinson symptoms.

Horrible.


By rejecting political correctness, someone says, "I use the word or term that I know will be hurtful when it would be just as easy for me to use one that would not be hurtful. IOW, I pride myself on hurting people for no reason whatsoever."

How big a jerk does it take to say that?

And, you are correct, hate speech often leads to, or is evidence of, some awful things. Similarities to Hitler's Germany do not surprise me as both Parties seem to be going in that direction.



As an aside, one of my pet peeves:

Good people who would never say certain words with reference to certain racial, ethnic or religious minorities or members of the LGBT community have no compunction whatever about referring to cowardice or weakness by referring to "pussy" and strength or bravery by referring to "balls."

The usually impeccably politically correct crew at the Daily Show, for example, does it all the time. (I should say that they are impeccably politically correct except when they are deliberately incorrect for purposes of a comic bit.)

It was especially ludicrous when I would see a DUer post something along the lines of: I wish Reid had Pelosi's balls.

And, if I posted a criticsm of the comment, I was almost always told to lighten up, or worse.

I guess we women are lucky y'all need us for procreation (so far), tbough, so I guess we are not headed for extinction (yet).

WSMA (weaker sex, my ass.)