Big Lie: Lincoln was a moderate President, as was JFK.

[No Elephants]

Are you kidding me?

Lincoln, by proclamation, abolished slavery, which had existed since the first white folk showed up on this continent, and decided he had the right to declare war on the South and suspend habeas corpus. How much less moderate could a President possibly be?

For his part, Kennedy took the first steps toward ending separate but equal, using the interstate commerce clause and the Interstate Commerce Commission to desegregate interstate travel and called for a civil rights act. A Democrat, in the days when the party, especially its Presidents, needed the Solid South more than they do today because California's 55 electoral votes were still going to Republicans, called for desegregation of buses, hotels, etc. while Jim Crow was still very much alive and backed by state laws.

And stared down the Pentagon during the Cuban missle crisis, at the most hysterical stage of the Cold War, which is to this day a lot harder than staring down Russia. And created both the "New Frontier" and the Peace Corps. And started our space program. And overhauled our immigration laws, which were still giving preference to Europeans.

I am not saying either of them was correct or incorrect in these things. I am not expressing an opinion one way or the other. I am also not saying that either of them was a perfect President or a great President.

All I am saying (in this post) is that these things were far from moederate actions for their respective times.

Of the two, Lincoln was certainly by far the less moderate, but Kennedy was no moderate for his day.

This is beyond revisionism.

Is there no lie about politics that is too big anymore?

[Me.]

1. Big FAT Lie

[Leopolds Ghost]

2. Has anyone read the text of Lincoln's Second Inaugural Address?

One of the most radical speeches ever given by an important American.

[No Elephants]

3. (((((((((LEO)))))))))!!!!

I am so happy to "see you."

Did you ever see your tribute thread?

I'll try to find it and bump it.

[Leopolds Ghost]

7. (((((((hug)))))))

http://static4.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/+_73107204fa9df2ee66bbc0bd903be392.png

Looking forward to LINCOLN the movie?

Looks damn good but what's with the accent?

[No Elephants]

8. I am not sure I will see it.

In elementary school, my teacher decided I read too much fiction and ordered me to choose something non-fiction next time. So, I went to biographies.

I chose Carl Sandburg's two volume bio of Lincoln and a bio of Babe Ruth by an author whose name I've long since forgotten. (Maybe I was going through the card index in my school library alphabetically--Abe and Babe?)

Both bios were basically love letters from the biographer and the two men became the heroes of a young girl who was by no means a baseball fan. And, being a loyal sort, I still adore Abe, though I had to let go of Babe when I moved to Massachusetts.

Anyway, I don't want to be disillusioned, either about Abe or about Sandburg.

[No Elephants]

6. P.S. Here's the link to Lincoln's second inaugural.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/lincoln2.asp

The man sure knew how to be terse, didn't he?

Most speeches then went on for hours because no one had to hurry home to watch The Voice or Real Housewives of New Jersey. Also, getting to the place where a President was to speak was a little harder than it is today.

So, when Lincoln gave the Gettysburg address, the people were were stunned that it was so short.

Speaking of which, my sixth grade teacher had long since given up teaching. In hindsight, she may have been alcoholic. She was assigned to handle the assembly on President's Day. She had us memorize the Gettsburg Address and recite it in unison on stage.

The principal came up to me in the hall later and said, "That assembly was a little short, wasn't it? I just laughed. Over 100 years later, same complaint.

Why he addressed his complaint to a sixth grader instead of to my teacher, though, I will never know.

[Enthusiast]

4. But how could Lincoln do anything less

when the future of the nation was at stake? I mean considering the alternative. Maybe the circumstances justified radical action.

Same with Kennedy. These were volatile times.

[No Elephants]

5. Lots of Presidents had gone in and out of office without abolishing slavery.

The "moderate" thing to do would have been to follow along.

True, Lincoln began only by opposing extension of slavery into the territories, but he ended by practically amending the Constitution by Executive Order.

True, the Constitution did not expressly say, "Slavery shall exist in the United States," but the 3/5 of a person bit was a big clue and the legislative history of the document is clear: Southern states refused to join the revolutionaries if the new nation banned slavery, as John Adams argued it should be.

Reagan officially banned gays from the military by executive order. That was not moderate. Clinton went to Morris and Powell and came with DADT and then got Congress to pass it. That was moderate.

But practically amending the Constitution by Executive Order being moderate? No way.

Kennedy's times were not, IMO, as volatile as today's times. And the new frontier and man on the moon had to do with his vision, not forced by circumstances. Sure, once Sputnik went up, the cold war way was to get into the "space race" too. However, he did not simply get into the race. He declared he would put a man on the moon within ten years, then did it.